Pyromancer Ascension

GP Charlotte has ended.
GP decklist are already uploaded.

Sad to say no UR Storm nor Unstorm version were there.

Did anyone here went to the said GP?
Please share your match ups.

In two weeks time, GP Singapore will take place. And it will be on modern.
I'll be there, and promise to do my very best.

And just in case there's anyone here who is on UR Pyromancer as well, let's meet up!

Cheers!

-Paeng

And, for the past weeks I've been grinding with this

Machine Gun
UR Ascension Storm

4 Pyromancer Ascension
3 Goblin Electromancer
2 Past in Flames
2 Gifts Ungiven
4 Lightning Bolt
1 Grapeshot

4 Serum Visions
4 Sleight of Hand
4 Thought Scour
4 Gitaxian Probe

4 Manamorphose
4 Desperate Ritual
3 Pyretic Ritual

4 Scalding Tarn
3 Flood Strand
3 Steam Vents
3 Sulfur Falls
3 Island
1 Mountain

Sideboard
1 Surgical Extraction
2 Leyline of Sanctity
2 Rending Volley
1 Empty the Warrens
2 Echoing Truth
2 Spellskite
1 Blood Moon
2 Gigadrowse
2 Torpor Orb

and here are my results:
5-0
1-2 (then drop)
4-1
2-1-1
5-2

I believe it's pretty normal not to see any (Un)Storm deck at the GP, usually Pros get the top tier deck of the moment, and the average modern player doesn't pick such a deck up. It's usually played by Legacy Stormers as me and you, in fact, are.
Anyway I'm fine if the deck is under the radars, as long as too much popularity could bring to specific hate in sideboards and hate from WotC (Finkel's result at the Pro Tour led to the prints of red and white Eidolons :( ).

Anyway I'll make an exception and cheer for you at the GP! :D

Inviato dal mio GT-S7275R utilizzando Tapatalk

I 4-0'd a 24-player local event with this list:

4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Serum Visions
4 Sleight of Hand
4 Visions from Beyond
4 Thought Scour
4 Faithless Looting
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Noxious Revival
4 Manamorphose
4 Pyromancer Ascension
2 Remand

3 Steam Vents
1 Breeding Pool
3 Sulfur Falls
1 Mountain
3 Island
4 Scalding Tarn
3 Misty Rainforest

Sideboard

2 Ancient Grudge
1 Grapeshot
4 Young Pyromancer
3 Blood Moon
3 Anger of the Gods
2 Cryptic Command

Matchups were RUG Twin 2-0, Grixis Twin 2-0, Sliver Tribal 2-1 (that deck is fast), Dredge 2-0. It was the first time I'd played the deck and I made numerous mistakes. However, it is very powerful and consistent if you can get past the mind-melting complexity involved (as a former High Tide and Storm pilot in Legacy I'm used to this kind of thing). My sideboard wasn't particularly great although CC was solid vs. Twin and Anger vs. Slivers. One thing I really like about the Unstorm list is there is no such thing as a fizzle really, you don't blow all your resources like you do in regular Storm. There were a couple of points where I just stopped my combo and passed with Cryptic mana up (or cast a sweeper vs. Slivers then waited to draw more business) and ended up winning the games. I also fought through EE @ 2 and a bombardment of Raven's Crimes vs. Dredge without too much difficulty. Visions from Beyond is kind of insane in long grindy matchups like that.

Your list is my exact one except for lands. How did you feel without white Burn-hate cards in the sideboard? Of course you didn't get paired vs. the deck, but maybe you have some thoughts about it. I think this deck loses a ton of life and in my games against burn slowing down for casting white spells wasn't good enough. I think the match-up is awful and pretty much impossible to make positive.
What is the singleton Grapeshot supposed to do in your sideboard? :smile:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ghiwo

Your list is my exact one except for lands. How did you feel without white Burn-hate cards in the sideboard? Of course you didn't get paired vs. the deck, but maybe you have some thoughts about it. I think this deck loses a ton of life and in my games against burn slowing down for casting white spells wasn't good enough. I think the match-up is awful and pretty much impossible to make positive.
What is the singleton Grapeshot supposed to do in your sideboard? :smile:

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I dropped the burn hate cards because there isn't much burn in my meta and I kind of felt they were bad to begin with. This deck is certainly suicidal in terms of lifeloss so I could see how the matchup would be awful (only Infect cuts itself as much as this deck IMO). The Grapeshot was just a hedge against Surgical Extraction on Bolt. I've learned from playing High Tide for years that's it's useful to have an out to that situation, so I always brought the Grapeshot in for game 2 (usually just shaved a Remand or a Faithless Looting). I also typically brought at least one Cryptic in every game 2 in case of non-creature permanents like Leyline of Sanctity or Chalice of the Void.

If they Surgical your Bolts you can still kill them with the infinite mana loop and infinite Thought Scour loop. So Grapeshot seems a wasted sideboard slot to me and a brick floating in your deck.

Inviato dal mio GT-S7275R utilizzando Tapatalk

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ghiwo

If they Surgical your Bolts you can still kill them with the infinite mana loop and infinite Thought Scour loop. So Grapeshot seems a wasted sideboard slot to me and a brick floating in your deck.

Inviato dal mio GT-S7275R utilizzando Tapatalk

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LOL I completely forgot you could win that way. I'm still learning the deck and don't have my head completely wrapped around the infinite loops yet. I guess Emrakul decks probably aren't going to run Surgical Extraction so the need for the Grapeshot is super low as you said.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Admiral_Arzar

LOL I completely forgot you could win that way. I'm still learning the deck and don't have my head completely wrapped around the infinite loops yet. I guess Emrakul decks probably aren't going to run Surgical Extraction so the need for the Grapeshot is super low as you said.

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I run the standard Wagner list but I swapped out 1 land for 1 electrolyze to have a looping damage based win con at instant speed in the md. Came in crucial against decks like burn that could kill you before they draw incase you scour kill them. It's also removal and a cantrip so it isn't as much a dead slot. I suggest you try it.

PAX TI CUM fellow storm brothers!

GP Singapore is just hours away.

I wish this reach you on time.

Can you pls share your sideboarding guide with the unstorm version.

This will be a big help for me in understanding the unstorm version more.

I wish to see how you guys deal with this.

Thank you very much!

Paeng

Quote:

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Originally Posted by paeng4983

PAX TI CUM fellow storm brothers!

GP Singapore is just hours away.

I wish this reach you on time.

Can you pls share your sideboarding guide with the unstorm version.

This will be a big help for me in understanding the unstorm version more.

I wish to see how you guys deal with this.

Thank you very much!

Paeng

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hi!
I don't have written ins and outs, but I usually try to cut the most useless playset of cards (since you don't want to cut 1X, 1Y, 1Z because of Ascension) for the cards I want to bring in. Some examples are:

Against Twin I would go -3 Lightning Bolt +3 Swan Song, and think about an additional -1 Lightning Bolt +1 Wear/Tear.
Against Affinity I do -2 Remand -2 Gitaxian Probe +2 Pyroclasm +2 Wear/Tear.
Against Elves I do -2 Remand +2 Pyroclasm
Against Jund I didn't board anything
Against Burn, -4 Gitaxian Probe -2 Remand +3 Rest for the Weary +2 Pyroclasm +1 Timely Reinforcements
Against UW/(r) Control I would do -3 Lightning Bolt +3 Swan Song
Against Tron -2 Lightning Bolt +2 Wear/Tear
Against Collected Anafenza I would do -2 Remand +2 Pyroclasm

I don't plan before when to board in Pyromancer, I bring it in when I feel my opponent is overboarding and cannot handle it. It won me some games alone. Also, in match-ups when you don't have to grind through counters/decays/discard you can shave 1 Noxious Revival I think.
I'm still learning the deck so don't take these notes for golden, but I think they are quite reasonable. Let me know if you need other decks/match-ups :smile:

Good luck for the GP, I'll be refreshing the standings and hoping to see you at the top tables!

Some updates from my recent play with this deck. I split top 2 in another local event, then took it to a GPT and a PPTQ this weekend.

At the GPT, I went 3-0-1 in the Swiss (ID round 4), beating Twin, Tron, and a third deck that I can't remember. I conceded to my top 4 opponent as I wasn't intending on attending the GP and thus didn't need the byes. The deck performed very well all day although I never got much use out of Blood Moon (even against Tron).

At the PPTQ, I lost round one to 8Rack which seems awful. I had never expected the matchup, although in fairness I could have won game 1 if my last four draws (while I had active Ascension) hadn't been land, land, land, Ascension. I beat GW Hatebears (game 3 double Pyromancer overwhelmed him), Tron, and Affinity. I then misplayed my way out of an easy win against Twin and thus knocked myself out of top eight contention. The final round I lost to Burn which is of course atrocious, although I did manage to win one game. I played this list in all three events:


4 Faithless Looting
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Noxious Revival
4 Serum Visions
4 Sleight of Hand
4 Thought Scour
4 Visions from Beyond
4 Manamorphose
4 Pyromancer Ascension
2 Cryptic Command

1 Breeding Pool
4 Island
3 Misty Rainforest
1 Mountain
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Steam Vents
3 Sulfur Falls

Sideboard

2 Ancient Grudge
1 Hurkyl's Recall
3 Pyroclasm
2 Spellskite
4 Young Pyromancer
3 Blood Moon

I'm cutting Blood Moon for Spell Pierce, as it rarely did enough (even against Tron but that matchup is pretty good anyway). Pierce is a good all-around answer to a bunch of different problems. I may also shave 1 Pyromancer or 1 Grudge for another Hurkyl's, not sure about that yet. The deck has been performing really well for weeks now, I really only lose to terrible matchups (which are rare) or my own misplays (which sadly are more common).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Admiral_Arzar

I really only lose to terrible matchups (which are rare) or my own misplays (which sadly are more common).

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I'm curious - and will try running this deck later today - what are these "terrible" matchups? Any deck with RIP?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by sum1unopk

I'm curious - and will try running this deck later today - what are these "terrible" matchups? Any deck with RIP?

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Yeah RIP is pretty bad but it's rare. I would bring in 4 Pyromancer against anything you suspect has RIP. Also, I would splash white for Wear/Tear if RIP is a thing in your meta (just cut the Breeding Pool for a Hallowed Fountain and suck up not having the green mana). 8-Rack seems pretty damn unwinnable unless you have T2 Ascension and get it active before they empty your hand (a tall order against a deck with double digit numbers of discard and Liliana). Burn is of course atrocious, although you can race them at times - if there's a lot of Burn in your meta the white splash is mandatory. I haven't noticed anything else as being particularly bad. The Twin matchup is amazing, BGx can be hard but is definitely winnable, Tron is very good. The deck is slightly faster than Elves and Affinity and can pack a significant amount of hate for both so I would consider them good matchups. I lose to my own misplays more often than to something my opponent does.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Admiral_Arzar

8-Rack seems pretty damn unwinnable unless you have T2 Ascension and get it active before they empty your hand

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In principle, yes that's true, but I see better chances with the Noxious version. They can empty our hand - as long as we either get Ascension onto the field OR get a Noxious Revival to put one back on top.
When they also start exiling graves, THAT is when we're lost. Even with a good hand, 8-Rack is slower and it has a hard time once Ascension becomes active (their discard can even HELP us to a certain degree)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by AlterEgo

In principle, yes that's true, but I see better chances with the Noxious version. They can empty our hand - as long as we either get Ascension onto the field OR get a Noxious Revival to put one back on top.
When they also start exiling graves, THAT is when we're lost. Even with a good hand, 8-Rack is slower and it has a hard time once Ascension becomes active (their discard can even HELP us to a certain degree)

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The issue I had was dying before I could combo off even if I resolved the Ascension. A flurry of discard spells followed by two rack effects is a FAST clock.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bum_man

I run the standard Wagner list but I swapped out 1 land for 1 electrolyze to have a looping damage based win con at instant speed in the md. Came in crucial against decks like burn that could kill you before they draw incase you scour kill them. It's also removal and a cantrip so it isn't as much a dead slot. I suggest you try it.

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With just 1 copy of Electrolyze you can't infinite loop the damage without a second active Ascension. And with two Ascensions out you can also infinite loop a Bolt. This deck wants as many 4-ofs as possible as well.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mammutti

With just 1 copy of Electrolyze you can't infinite loop the damage without a second active Ascension. And with two Ascensions out you can also infinite loop a Bolt. This deck wants as many 4-ofs as possible as well.

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Actually you can, just do the infinite mana loop then once you have X number of U, R, G floating, you can replace one of the manamorphose with electrolyze.

I took out the 18th land for electrolyze so it doesn't hinder my number of 4offs. I just wanted a kill spell that doesn't require me to pass back the turn when I could possibly be killed on the upkeep that also only requires 1 ascension active.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Admiral_Arzar

Some updates from my recent play with this deck. I split top 2 in another local event, then took it to a GPT and a PPTQ this weekend.

At the GPT, I went 3-0-1 in the Swiss (ID round 4), beating Twin, Tron, and a third deck that I can't remember. I conceded to my top 4 opponent as I wasn't intending on attending the GP and thus didn't need the byes. The deck performed very well all day although I never got much use out of Blood Moon (even against Tron).

At the PPTQ, I lost round one to 8Rack which seems awful. I had never expected the matchup, although in fairness I could have won game 1 if my last four draws (while I had active Ascension) hadn't been land, land, land, Ascension. I beat GW Hatebears (game 3 double Pyromancer overwhelmed him), Tron, and Affinity. I then misplayed my way out of an easy win against Twin and thus knocked myself out of top eight contention. The final round I lost to Burn which is of course atrocious, although I did manage to win one game. I played this list in all three events:


4 Faithless Looting
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Noxious Revival
4 Serum Visions
4 Sleight of Hand
4 Thought Scour
4 Visions from Beyond
4 Manamorphose
4 Pyromancer Ascension
2 Cryptic Command

1 Breeding Pool
4 Island
3 Misty Rainforest
1 Mountain
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Steam Vents
3 Sulfur Falls

Sideboard

2 Ancient Grudge
1 Hurkyl's Recall
3 Pyroclasm
2 Spellskite
4 Young Pyromancer
3 Blood Moon

I'm cutting Blood Moon for Spell Pierce, as it rarely did enough (even against Tron but that matchup is pretty good anyway). Pierce is a good all-around answer to a bunch of different problems. I may also shave 1 Pyromancer or 1 Grudge for another Hurkyl's, not sure about that yet. The deck has been performing really well for weeks now, I really only lose to terrible matchups (which are rare) or my own misplays (which sadly are more common).

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How does this deck work? You need Noxious Revival+Manamorphose in both your hand and graveyard to get infinite mana and then do the same with Noxious Revival+Thought Scour to mill your opponent, right?
Or am I missing something?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by sawatarix

How does this deck work? You need Noxious Revival+Manamorphose in both your hand and graveyard to get infinite mana and then do the same with Noxious Revival+Thought Scour to mill your opponent, right?
Or am I missing something?

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Or kill them with a couple of Lightning Bolts copied n times.

Is there any primer with sideboard guide written about the deck?