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I concur, this is also my initial results too after trying one of the more brute force'ish lists. What's peoples thoughts on sticking it into a lands.dec, it seems like a natural evolution which also keeps the traditional win conditions of a lands.dec while additing the potential to finish off a game nearly instantly should the opportunitet arise.Quote:
Originally Posted by apple713
As Bruizar wrote earlier, I too agree it shouldn't be the deck's primarily and only focus.
Lands seems like a good shell for the combo. I think it's just wrong to play an all-in combo deck that can be stalled by Lingering Souls for four turns.
At the moment, I'm testing a controlish Junk Loam build with Stage/Depths as an alternate win besides Knight of the Reliquary and a manland. Just screw them with Chalice of the Void, Discard and Wasteland/Loam before making your 20/20. I'll post a list once I'm home from work.
Not there yet but my list for now:
//Spellbombs
3 Counterbalance
2 Artificer's Intuition
3 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Pithing Needle
1 Expedition Map
1 Engineered Explosives
//Planeswalkers
3 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 The Abyss
//Creatures
1 Vendilion Clique
4 Baleful Strix
//Spells
2 Thoughtseize
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Brainstorm
3 Force of Will
//Marit Lage
1 Dark Depths
//Land / Mana 25
4 Mox Opal
1 Academy Ruins
1 Wasteland or Dustbowl
1 Thespian's Stage
1 Karakas
1 Creeping Tar Pit
2 Seat of the Synod
2 Misty Rainforest
4 Polluted Delta
4 Underground Sea
1 Volcanic Island or Tropical Island or Tundra
2 Island
1 Swamp
Still deciding which card to cut since its 61 cards now. Also still deciding whether or not I can make room for a singleton Shizo, Death's Storehouse to make Vendilion Clique and Marit Lage unblockable. If so, I may splash white for 2 Geist of Saint Traft since I can use expedition map to find Shizo and protect Geist.
//Sideboard, or something along those lines..
1 Lantern of Insight - vs Entreat the Angels
1 Pithing Needle - vs Pernicious Deed / Jace / Stoneforge Mystic, etc
1 Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale - heavy aggro / tribal decks
1 Elixir of Immortality - vs Burn
3 of Night of Souls' Betrayal / Damnation / Perish / Nature's Ruin / Virtue's Ruin / Massacre / Engineered Plague
2 Extirpate - vs Ancient Grudge
3 or 4 of Spell Pierce, Flusterstorm or Red Elemental Blast
3 Vendilion Clique / Thoughtseize / Inquisition of Kozilek
I too have come to the conclusoin that a dedicated Depths/Stage combo deck is not viable. There should really be another wincon besides the Marit Lage token.
After all I think it should be part of an existing deck as a side step. Lands/Maverick/Pox/The Rock/CounterTop/MUD could all run this combo on the side by just adding 1 or 2 Dark Depths/Thespian's Stage combi.
I still want to try a MUC shell with Jace 2.0 as alternate win, but have little doubt it could beat multicolor decks.
I know this is an unproductive post, but I have to say that list looks so sexy Bruizar.
Do you have any initial testing and thoughts on it?
cut vendilion, he doesnt flow with the rest of the deck. he dies to abyss and isnt an artifact. Since you are running black for discard his CIP effect is dwarfed by the other cards.Quote:
Originally Posted by bruizar
lantern seems like trash. vendilion clique is better vs miracles because after they trigger te miracle part of hte card and reveal it, you can clique in response so it is no longer in their hand to cast. Even if they draw another miracle on the v clique draw its the second card they drew that turn and is irrelevant.
Vclique in board is good vs combo decks to put them on a clock and disrupt their hand.
Lantern however can be found with Artificer's Intuition, I'd say it looks pretty good as a singleton in the board. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by apple713
1 CMC spells get counterd all day against miracles... good luck landing it on turn 3 after you search for it. you're better off running 4v cliques in board to ensure u draw em. especially with the new legend rule theres not much downside.Quote:
Originally Posted by Grollub
also, they wont be casting a miracle card before turn 3 anyways
http://www.thecouncil.es/tcdecks/dec...7&iddeck=79812
Check this out for a Dark Depths deck
I have done some initial testing and have thought for a long time about the deck. The reason why this deck exists is because the tutoring power of artificer's intuition can set up some powerful game states and answer problematic match-ups. It's a mash-up of counterbalance and UB planeswalker. The problem of UB Planeswalker is that it is extremely vulnerable to Gaddock Teeg, and that it does not run Brainstorm but Chalice of the Void. Its manabase consists of sol lands, which I believe are a liability for the deck, but also what gives it its strength.Quote:
Originally Posted by Grollub
I do not use Sol Lands nor Chalice of the Void, so that I can run a more stable, coloured mana base and brainstorm. My replacement for Chalice of the Void is Counterbalance, which serves a similar function as Chalice of the Void, but is slightly different in its use. The omission of Chalice of the Void allows me to use Brainstorm, Sensei's Divining Top, black discard spells and trinkets with artificer's intuition.
I have also cut down on the number of planeswalkers. By being less artifact-centric, I reduce the amount of damage done by artifact hate. I could even sideboard a Welding Jar in dire situations, to provide some more protection from Abrupt Decay for cards such as pithing needle, or even regenerating a Baleful Strix. But I don't think this is needed. Another option is Cursed Scroll, which I still have to test. I sort of like it because it shuts down utility creatures really well.
Compared to a stock Counterbalance list, this list is a lot more aggressive because of Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas, but it doesn't overly rely on artifacts. Relic of Progenitus is there to interfere with Deathrite Shamans, Tarmogoyfs and Nimble Mongoose as well as having an answer to a game 1 dredge or reanimator match-up. Post board, a Nihil Spellbomb should come in which is to be used with Expedition Map into Academy Ruins to provide a graveyard sweeper every turn. This same cycle can set up be done for Engineered Explosives instead of Nihil Spellbomb, even though Explosives set on 2 destroys A.I. and Counterbalance.
I am light on 3-CC spells (Only clique) and therefore am thinking of including a Far // Away, which is great with Counterbalance and Force of Will and good against a flipped delver, nimble mongoose or Emrakul / Griselbrand, but I am not sure about it yet. It is probably not effective enough.
@bruizar: Why no Executioner's Capsule as tutor target? Seems too good to pass, especially with Academy once you have the mana available.
I have played with Executioner's Capsule and although it is sort of nice, the drawback of nonblack and the 3 mana cost is pretty high. Not sure if I can find the space for it. `i usually just wish it was an Engineered Explosives (which I can set up to 4 easily and up to 5 with double mox opal).
Im trying to build an "Aggro Rock" with Depths combo, it looks something like this:
Creatures [23]
Creatures Engine [12]
4 Bloodghast
4 Vengevine
4 Gravecrawler
Enabler Creatures [9]
3 Vampire Hexmage
2 Lotleth Troll
4 Lotus Cobra
Utility Creatures [2]
1 Shriekmaw
1 Eternal Witness
Spells [17]
3 Life from the Loam
1 Sylvan Library
4 Entomb
4 Living Wish
1 Dark Blast
4 Innocent Blood/Abrupt Decay/Removal
Lands [21]
Mana Lands [14]
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Bayou
4 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
3 Swamp
1 Forest
Manlands [2]
2 Mutavault
Utility Lands [4]
1 Volrath's Stronghold
3 Cycle Lands
Legendary Lands [1]
1 Dark Depths
As a budget deck it seems quite good, (you should exchange ghost quarter for wasteland and forest+tomb for fetch+bayou) ;
Steely resolve is here to protect the avatar and can't be killed by jitte or stopped by phyrexian revoker.
4 Crop Rotation
4 Dark Depths
4 Thespian's Stage
4 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Overgrown Tomb
4 Vampire Hexmage
2 Ghost Quarter
4 Chrome Mox
4 Into the North
3 Snow-Covered Forest
2 Sylvan Library
4 Sylvan Scrying
4 Pithing Needle
1 Forest
2 Birds of Paradise
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Steely Resolve
2 Expedition Map
SB: 1 Bojuka Bog
SB: 3 Seal of Primordium
SB: 2 Dread of Night
SB: 1 Darkblast
SB: 4 Trinisphere
SB: 4 Duress
EDIT : Chrome mox + Into the north and sylvan library are awesome
EDIT2 : cut the birds they are not needed with into the north+chrome mox you are fast enough
EDIT 3 : reput two birds and added chalice of the void for combo and miracle
How is foregoing living wish budget? Card is cheap.
Living wish is bad, cause you lose two-three cards to the maindeck ; you dilute your sideboard (less cards for combo which is the problem of the deck) ; just for four cards maindeck. I dont like it. The main problem of the deck is omni show ; I haven't found a plan to beat it (8 discards + 3 seal of primordium is not enough). It can do random things such as protect you from surgical extraction but i don't like it. The deck beats shardless BUG, stoneblade, goblin, elves is 55-45,
tempo is 50-50, ANT is 50-50 (after side you are favored), Death and taxes is 50-50, maverick is slightly favorable, miracle is unfavorable. Omni show is the bad matchup of the deck ; couldn't find a way to beat it, without the white splash.
A non budget deck would look like this and would rape the format :
4 Dark Depths
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Bayou
1 Savannah
4 Birds of Paradise
3 Wasteland
4 Sylvan Scrying
4 Sylvan Safekeeper
4 Steely Resolve
4 Expedition Map
4 Vampire Hexmage
3 Into the north
4 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Crop Rotation
4 Thespian's Stage
4 Pithing Needle
2 Windswept Heath
SB: 2 Bojuka Bog
SB: 4 Gaddock Teeg
SB: 4 Ethersworn Canonist
SB: 3 Seal of Primordium
SB: 1 Dread of Night
SB: 1 Karakas
It seems that into the north is a good card for the deck, have to try it. It fetches dark depth and put it into play.
Getting ahead of ourselves. Good luck with show and tell decks if they are in your meta.Quote:
Originally Posted by adrieng
I really like the Combo in a BUg shell.
4 Force of Will
4 Brainstorm
1 Life from the Loam
2 Damnaton
3 Spell Pierce
3 Sensi's Divining Top
3 Counterbalance
3 Thoughtseize
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
3 Abrupt Decay
2 Vampire Hexmage
2 Crop Rotation
3 Expedition Map
2 Creeping Tar Pit
4 Wasteland
4 Underground Sea
2 Tropical Island
1 Bayou
1 Island
1 Swamp
3 Poluted Delta
3 Misty Rainforest
1 Maze of Ith
1 Thespian's Stage
1 Dark Depths
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
SB
2 Flusterstorm
1 Life from the Loam
1 Bajuka Bog
2 Misdirection
1 Maestrom Pulse
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Pithing Needle
1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Damnation
1 Dark Blast
1 Massicare
It offers the CBT lock, with force and seize/pierce combo stands no chance. For the creature decks, damnation and decay. vs control, jace and tar pit plus countermagic. there are alternate win cons, tar pit/jace. loam adds some redundancy. the mana is ok, but i dont know if all 4 wastelands belong (im leaning toward no), and i would like to fit another win con, my first thought was deathrite or goyf.
Hi everybody! in sunday i have a tournament and liked to play a dark depths deck. The deck has the BUG nic fit base some things to play the dark depths ! here is the list:
1 Primeval Titan
3 Veteran Explorer
1 Eternal Witness
3 Trinket Mage
1 Sylvan Safekeeper
3 Pernicious Deed
4 Cabal Therapy
3 Abrupt Decay
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Expedition Map
3 Living Wish
3 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Academy Ruins
1 Wasteland
1 Creeping Tar Pit
2 Tropical Island
2 Bayou
4 Misty Rainforest
3 Verdant Catacombs
3 Forest
2 Swamp
2 Island
1 Thespian's Stage
1 Dark Depths
1 Life from the Loam
4 Brainstorm
1 Dryad Arbor
SB: 1 Karakas
SB: 1 Bojuka Bog
SB: 1 Dark Depths
SB: 1 Thespian's Stage
SB: 1 Thrun, the Last Troll
SB: 2 Surgical Extraction
SB: 1 Pithing Needle
SB: 1 Fleshbag Marauder
SB: 1 Vampire Hexmage
SB: 3 Negate
SB: 2 Simic Charm
What do you think?