[Primer] Eldrazi Stompy

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Originally Posted by Barook

Second league run with my current list, 4-1'ed. Matches were:

R1: Lost to Mirror (Riehu's build posted above)
R2: Win vs Miracles
R3: Win vs ANT
R4: Win vs Sneak & Show (I love this match-up)
R5: Win vs Mirror with white splash for Displacer (and SB O-Ring; had a nice talk with him since he appearently knows me from this thread; I had some ridiculous draws, like T1 TKS on the draw)

Stoneblade SB never came up this run. Since it does very little in the mirror (which has high relevance in the current online meta, ~13% of placing decks), I do wonder if there are better options that have uses in the mirror and help in other match-ups as well. Some cheap removal for enemy fatties would certainly help.

I'm thinking about:
- 3 Sword of X & Y
- 2 SFM

+ 3 StP/PtE
+ 2 Endbringer (O-Sower is good as well for the mirror, but pretty useless otherwise)

Also maybe cutting the 4th Dismember for a 2nd Jitte SB if I go with the white removal plan. Since we're aggro, is PtE really better with potentially giving a basic in various match-ups than the lifegain from StP? I'd love a discussion about that and the awkwardness of said spells as removal in matches were CotV @1 is relevant.

Mox came up as a bit awkward from time to time. I consider replacing my second copy with another Petal, going with a 1 Mox/4 Petal split.

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I was that round five. Glad to see it was to finish a 4-1. I finished 3-2 again, losing to you and Stoneblade with TNNs.

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Originally Posted by Polishguy00

I was that round five. Glad to see it was to finish a 4-1. I finished 3-2 again, losing to you and Stoneblade with TNNs.

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Now that you mention Stoneblade with TNN causing trouble: @Barook, have you considered using a Manriki-Gusari in your Stoneforge package? True-Name is a lot easier to race when it's not carrying a Sword or Skull.

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Originally Posted by Delvis

Now that you mention Stoneblade with TNN causing trouble: @Barook, have you considered using a Manriki-Gusari in your Stoneforge package? True-Name is a lot easier to race when it's not carrying a Sword or Skull.

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Having run that card in D+T before, I assure you that Manriki-Gusari is really bad. There are so many ways for it to go wrong, and it is so bad to draw when they just happen to take a line that doesn't relying on equipment.

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Originally Posted by Barook

Second league run with my current list, 4-1'ed. Matches were:

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Gratz!

I will test that main for sure, since i am a longtime (for eldrazi^^) supporter of superior the White-Splash.

My side would look a little bit different:

1 Ulamog 2.0 (since the build has no own Wastelands and can run 1-2 Conduit - so mana is more or less safe)
2 All is Dust (Fight all the midrange Creature-stuff and have outs vs all Miracle cards: Mentor/Moon/Moat/Humility/Entreat/Jace!)
1 Thalia (Storm run more and more Hurklys Recall etc. so Thalia is a better Thorn here)
2 Warping Wail (Storm will bring more Permanent Hate - Wail also hits Elves, Miracle, Show&Tell and random matchups/creatures)
2 Path to Exile (i have copyright here, but i think it is a really good call vs Mirror and Gofy/Knight-based Decks, since Chalice isnt so good vs BGx decks)
2 Containment Priest (proven card)
2 Rest in Peace (proven card)
1 Duplicant (Mirror and Combos well with Displacer, but unlike Priest, Duplicant will kill on its own, Barook plays a 3rd Priest here)
2 Wastes (my flexslots, but i like them, yes the build is resilient vs Moon, but have a pair of Basics is ok in the current meta game)

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EDIT: As Gheizen mentioned, i won a nice game vs him with Displacer - that card is really good!

EDIT: More about RG Build, or Devoid build with Bearer of Silence etc. next week!

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Originally Posted by iostream

Having run that card in D+T before, I assure you that Manriki-Gusari is really bad. There are so many ways for it to go wrong, and it is so bad to draw when they just happen to take a line that doesn't relying on equipment.

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I'm with iostream here. Also, why would I fetch Manriki if I could fetch SoFaI instead to overrun my opponent instead? The deck doesn't have the slots to screw around.

For my next league run, I'll throw out the SFM package and make the changes mentioned before to combat the mirror better. I'll see if I miss the second Mox or the SFM package.

Edit: Third league run was less great and I'm kinda salty about it since Infect is normally a good match-up for my build. I ran into Infect 3 times (!) and lost two matches to a bunch of picture-perfect god draws like on the play T1 Daze, T2 Inkmoth, T3 tripple Invigorate. :rolleyes:

Overall went 3-2, with my other wins being Miracles and the Mirror (coloress build). Paths were sitting in my hand in the mirror due to lack of white mana. Not too sure what to think about that.

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Originally Posted by iostream

2) Is Lotus Petal "basically as good" as the Spirit Guides? Is it easy to sequence them in a way so that they don't get countered when they are of maximum value?

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Generally you'd rather they counter your Petal than whatever you were going to play with it anyways - most spells in this deck are counterable and if the opponent e.g. counters your turn 1 Lotus Petal instead of the Chalice you were going to cast with that, you've come out on top. The only exception is of course if you have a Cavern and a Petal want to cast some 2-mana Eldrazi for it (or something similar) but that doesn't seem relevant all that often.

Yeah them countering a Lotus Petal matters like 1 of 100 games.. if even that many.
"More problematic" is the dissynergy with Thorn of Amethyst if you're playing it.
Turn 1 Ancient Tomb -> Thorn
Turn 2 1-mana-land -> Spirit Guide -> Thought-Knot Seer is not a super uncommon line of play, does work with a Petal if you know you're going to do this beforehand and don't draw it for your turn.
It not being able to be a creature is another really small point.
All in all those points are all pretty small but they do add up, so if you don't need it to generate white, blue or black mana I'd rather go with the spirit guides. If you do wan't the colored mana then by all means, don't let those small points discourage you.

After a less glorious 2-3 run, I've decided to throw out the pretty much useless Paths and go back to my Blade SB and went 4-1 again (only loss being against BUG Delver R1). While it only played a minor role, it certainly did help to access equipment under Blood Moon effects when playing against a Moggcatcher deck in the final round (although the real blowout was delivered by resp Containment Priest, while All is Dust was MVP both games).

Not too sure what I should do with my last SB slot. I replaced my 4th Dismember for another Endbringer since I hate the overall life loss between Tombs and too many Dismembers, especially when running multiples. But the slot hardly came up. Having at least "something" for the mirror would be nice, though.

Barring some high variance bullshit like drawing 15 lands out of 24 cards (well, that's part of Magic, too), I'm very pleased with the MD performance so far (1 Mox/4 Petal configuration). The set SB slots (Karakas, Priest, RiP, All is Dust) are rock-solid, too. Only the flex slots still require some tinkering imho.

Hi there! I started testing eldrazi a week ago and my testings are doing quite well.

To me this could be one the best chalice decks since it puts an incredible pressure on your opponent.
I'm using a red splas because you get the most mana sources without loses on speed and you gain Eldrazi Obligator which can steals blockers, big creatures put with Show and Tell/Reanimate, or just swing for 3 haste on the worst case scenario.
Here's my current list, to avoid Blood Moon I'm running 4 Wastes. Enjoy! :smile:

4 Ancient Tomb
4 Eldrazi temple
3 Eye of Uin
4 Wastes
4 cavern of Souls
4 Sulfurous Springs
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth

4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Eldrazi Mimic
4 Endless One
4 Matter reshaper
4 Eldrazi Obligator
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Reality Smasher

4 Chalice of the Void
4 Warping Wail

SB

2 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Null Rod
3 Thorn of Amethist
3 Faerie Macabre
2 Dismember
2 All is Dust
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger

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Originally Posted by Holly

Yeah them countering a Lotus Petal matters like 1 of 100 games.. if even that many.
"More problematic" is the dissynergy with Thorn of Amethyst if you're playing it.
Turn 1 Ancient Tomb -> Thorn
Turn 2 1-mana-land -> Spirit Guide -> Thought-Knot Seer is not a super uncommon line of play, does work with a Petal if you know you're going to do this beforehand and don't draw it for your turn.
It not being able to be a creature is another really small point.
All in all those points are all pretty small but they do add up, so if you don't need it to generate white, blue or black mana I'd rather go with the spirit guides. If you do wan't the colored mana then by all means, don't let those small points discourage you.

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Another disadvantage of Petal compared to Guides is that it feeds Goyf. Chances are that they got one of your artifacts into the GY via counters of removal anyway. Haven't come up for me as a problem yet, but might be a minor nuisance sometimes.

As for my last SB slot, I just had an epiphany regarding my last SB slot after playing against RUG Delver. I need something that can act as removal, doesn't eat me alive like multiple Dismember, is good for the mirror, doesn't have a shitty casting cost and has applications in other match-ups as well. Long story short, Jitte #2. Sure, it could be third Stoneforge, but you don't always have white mana immediately and SFM tutoring is slower. Adding another card that can gain me life is just an added bonus (Batterskull is just too slow/uncastable more often than not). I'll add the change after finishing my current league run and see how it goes, but I'm excited.

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Originally Posted by Barook

Another disadvantage of Petal compared to Guides is that it feeds Goyf. Chances are that they got one of your artifacts into the GY via counters of removal anyway. Haven't come up for me as a problem yet, but might be a minor nuisance sometimes.

As for my last SB slot, I just had an epiphany regarding my last SB slot after playing against RUG Delver. I need something that can act as removal, doesn't eat me alive like multiple Dismember, is good for the mirror, doesn't have a shitty casting cost and has applications in other match-ups as well. Long story short, Jitte #2. Sure, it could be third Stoneforge, but you don't always have white mana immediately and SFM tutoring is slower. Adding another card that can gain me life is just an added bonus (Batterskull is just too slow/uncastable more often than not). I'll add the change after finishing my current league run and see how it goes, but I'm excited.

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I play 2 Jitte main and they have been phenomenonal for me. Been considering a 1/1 MD and sb split but hard card to pull since it's good against so many different decks. Dismember is a great card but it's incredibly awkward with an ancient Tomb or trinisphere in play, so I've been leaving those mostly in the sb. They are sure good against infect though :laugh:

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Originally Posted by RhoxWarMonk

I play 2 Jitte main and they have been phenomenonal for me. Been considering a 1/1 MD and sb split but hard card to pull since it's good against so many different decks. Dismember is a great card but it's incredibly awkward with an ancient Tomb or trinisphere in play, so I've been leaving those mostly in the sb. They are sure good against infect though :laugh:

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Jitte can be awkward at times in certain match-ups, too. Of course it's good vs Infect, among other things. It also plays well under Moon effects if you can stick a creature.

I don't understand your Trinisphere concern, though. Paying Phyrexian mana is still considered mana, thus you pay 3 to satisfy Trinisphere, even if you actually paid :1: and 4 life. :really:

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Originally Posted by Barook

Jitte can be awkward at times in certain match-ups, too. Of course it's good vs Infect, among other things. It also plays well under Moon effects if you can stick a creature.

I don't understand your Trinisphere concern, though. Paying Phyrexian mana is still considered mana, thus you pay 3 to satisfy Trinisphere, even if you actually paid :1: and 4 life. :really:

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That is not true.
Paying life IS NOT considered mana for the effect of Trinisphere (or anything else for that matter).
It does not work like Convoke or Delve.

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Originally Posted by Barook

Jitte can be awkward at times in certain match-ups, too. Of course it's good vs Infect, among other things. It also plays well under Moon effects if you can stick a creature.

I don't understand your Trinisphere concern, though. Paying Phyrexian mana is still considered mana, thus you pay 3 to satisfy Trinisphere, even if you actually paid :1: and 4 life. :really:

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As holly mentioned, that's incorrect. Dismember with a Trinisphere in play will actually cost you 3 colorless AND 4 life, if you don't have black mana to pay for the phyrexian cost (which I do not in my deck -- no Urborg).

Trinisphere only cares about mana cost - life from the phyrexian mana isn't included in it's calculation. It's the same thing with having an Eye of Ugin in play. You still have to pay 3 mana, so you can't play, say, a Reshaper off a Cavern and an Eye with a Trinisphere in play, despite the Reshaper only costing 3.

You're both right. http://blogs.magicjudges.org/rulesti...hyrexian-mana/

Got that mixed up with the rule changes of Delve and Convoke.

Is anyone trying out either of the Spirit guides right now? I'm debating on putting them in, they look very strong and who doesn't want more explosive starts but it would mean I'd have to cut 2 Endbringers (and a Jitte) to make room for them. I'm not sure I want to do that, Endbringer has been very solid for me in non-combo matchups.

I noticed spirit guides have been popping up on mtggoldfish lately, so I thought I'd ask if anyone here was having success with them.

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Originally Posted by RhoxWarMonk

Is anyone trying out either of the Spirit guides right now? I'm debating on putting them in, they look very strong and who doesn't want more explosive starts but it would mean I'd have to cut 2 Endbringers (and a Jitte) to make room for them. I'm not sure I want to do that, Endbringer has been very solid for me in non-combo matchups.

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In the colorless list, I feel they add a lot of consistency in keepable hands, make you more explosive and mess with Daze players. I like them a lot.

I played in the Tales of Adventure Legacy 5k today. Lots of Eldrazi players at this event, but not a single one made top-8. Michael Derczo, who's a really good player who usually plays Death'n'Taxes in Legacy, was playing Eldrazi and he echoed a common sentiment I heard today from lots of players - "The deck is mostly hype". He complained that it lacks interaction and doesn't do enough powerful things to compete consistently at a high level. Now, I take his word for it because he's a really good player, so I'm wondering if maybe the deck has been over-hyped and is not really of Tier 1 material.

Unless results change drastically, I'm sold on the Xenoblade SB plan:

It's a really good plan B agaisnt Blood Moon decks (Fuck you, MTGO, for making me play the same guy twice in the same league run. At least I won the second encounter 2-0)

Oh shit! How do you beat that? Beat them down with eldritch abominations wielding magicial glowsticks of pointy contradictions. (better be lucky than good) :laugh:

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Originally Posted by MGB

I played in the Tales of Adventure Legacy 5k today. Lots of Eldrazi players at this event, but not a single one made top-8. Michael Derczo, who's a really good player who usually plays Death'n'Taxes in Legacy, was playing Eldrazi and he echoed a common sentiment I heard today from lots of players - "The deck is mostly hype". He complained that it lacks interaction and doesn't do enough powerful things to compete consistently at a high level. Now, I take his word for it because he's a really good player, so I'm wondering if maybe the deck has been over-hyped and is not really of Tier 1 material.

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Depends on the version, imho. If he talks about the Colorless version, I do agree - it's overhyped since it can be attacked from too many angles easily. What's why I do think the Wx version is better, since it gives you better ways to interact, like Displacer, more Karakas, World Breaker (if you play green), a better SB plan - not to mention it's more fun to play.

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Originally Posted by Barook

Unless results change drastically, I'm sold on the Xenoblade SB plan:

It's a really good plan B agaisnt Blood Moon decks (Fuck you, MTGO, for making me play the same guy twice in the same league run. At least I won the second encounter 2-0)

Oh shit! How do you beat that? Beat them down with eldritch abominations wielding magicial glowsticks of pointy contradictions. (better be lucky than good) :laugh:

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Depends on the version, imho. If he talks about the Colorless version, I do agree - it's overhyped since it can be attacked from too many angles easily. What's why I do think the Wx version is better, since it gives you better ways to interact, like Displacer, more Karakas, World Breaker (if you play green), a better SB plan - not to mention it's more fun to play.

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There were a few players on the white version, in fact, I think more players were on the white version than the colorless version. I'm pretty sure Michael was on it too - with Karakas, Displacers, etc.