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Thanks for the update! Im sure with more people working on this we can get to a more optimal version.
I find it hard to only have one symbiote. The Symbiote/oracle interaction is amazing. Also having a Leovold and symbiote makes spot removal almost useless. I found that when I only had one and it was killed, I was wishing for more. I am now up to three.
played last night with a list close to the BoM one.
i'll get the exact list a bit later, but it was fun.
lost to storm 0-2
beat sylvan plug 2-1
beat d&t 2-1
i hoped for gaea's cradle a lot, i may go back to running 4. i also tried 2 natural order in the sb to help race the storm matchup. i think it would have been fine game 2 vs storm, but i missed a land drop and natural order couldn't lethal that turn. (any land would have been lethal)
I am hesitant to try the 4th cradle now that strix is in the deck.
Also, cradle leads to some very awkward situations, sometimes a. Forked bolt can essentially 3 for one us.
Combo seems impossible for this deck to beat. That's the next challenge to face. How to improve the combo match up? Hymns? FoW?
i think the best way to beat combo is to possibly race it. consider running 2 natural order in the sb, and bringing it more discard (maybe have 2-3 thoughtseize + the therapies. you could also play thorn of amethyst.
Hi!
Have you think about Spellstutter Sprite?
I will try a list from the Bant one, with it and some Scryb Ranger too.
Is this thread only for the Cradle/GSZ Opposition deck or any deck that utilizes Opposition? I've been working on an Opposition Fish deck with lots of cool features and synergy but I am afraid it has nothing to do with ramping into Behemoth and playing Garruk Overruns. Should I start a new thread or post it here?
Thanks
i think for now we can keep everything on this thread. it's not really gaining a ton of traction so it's not a big deal as long as they are opposition themed.
So you'd say that no one is...opposed? :tongue:Quote:
Originally Posted by mistercakes
I think the "main" list that we have is still pretty fluid. Cheap creatures that provide CA is really the main foundation. Therapy comes alongside that just because it makes sense, but I could envision a more Fish-flavored dish.
Edit: Personally I wonder if there is some Opposition shell that could include Deathrite, Monastery Mentor, Baleful Strix, Snapcaster, Therapy, and Unearth. Particularly like that Opposition could give Snapcaster and Strix some additional value apart from their ETB triggers.
i wouldn't mind a red blue one using pyromancer and dack fayden. dunno if it's necessary with other options in r/u though. cradle is one of the reasons the deck works so well. i'd say try to find other ways to exploit that card in the context of opposition and the deck could become stronger.
we should also try to see how that aluren deck is playing, and maybe fitting 2 opposition in there? could be rather fun. dunno if it's any good though!
Losing decay and discard would make our combo and miracles matchups terrible
So I've got this experimental list and I am halfway through a primer at the moment. I'll just post what I have here for now so you can comment on it.
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Baleful Strix
4 Stoneforge Mystic
2 Edric, Spymaster of Trest
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
1 Quiet Speculation
3 Gitaxian Probe
3 Cabal Therapy
4 Lingering Souls
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Batterskull
1 Sylvan Library
2 Opposition
4 Flooded Strand
3 Polluted Delta
2 Marsh Flats
2 Underground Sea
1 Tundra
1 Tropical Island
1 Savannah
1 Scrubland
1 Swamp
1 Plains
1 Island
1 Containment Priest
2 True-Name Nemesis
2 Meddling Mage
2 Flusterstorm
2 Zealous Persecution
2 Abrupt Decay
1 Pithing Needle
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
2 Rest in Peace
Lots of synergy in this little deck. Edric is fabulous with Strix and Souls, Therapy works great with Probe, Strix, SFM, and Souls, Probe is fantastic with Therapy, Meddling Mage and Needle, Opposition is amazing with Souls, Stoneforge and equipments always have bodies, and Speculation is one cool piece of tech.
The manabase used to be all duals but fitting basics was essential and ended up to virtually no color cost. At first I had a blue centric manabase but it turns out only 13 of the 20 blue spells require blue mana. Scrubland being the ideal T1 land and black and white mana being the actual meat and potatoes pf the deck made Swamp and Plains easy inclusions. Blood Moon and Loam/Waste stopped being a problem and PoP is easy to ignore now.
I've put lots of thought in the SB as well in order to be able to play against Punishing Fire and have a good Lands matchup despite playing zero Wastelands and being deathly afraid of PFire. In theory, I belive Jund is the worst matchup I can face. I will post some results in the upcoming weeks.
I think you try to do to much in this deck. 4 sfm and only 2 equipments (i know it can work but meh). Why not cut green? you only loos 3 cards....
4 SFM and 2 equipments is quite standard... I also play SoFaI in the SB. I could see lowering to 2-3 copies, moving SoFaI main and losing the Batterskull plan altogether. SFM into BSkull is still an important play to be able to make, especially against Eldrazi and Belcher. What I really need in that slot though is a body that grabs me Jitte and can be sacrificed to Therapy so maybe Batterskull is not the way to go. Also you have to ask yourself what would be good instead for the slot. There aren't many cards I would rather have for 2 mana in this deck than SFM... Perhaps Bitterblossom could be a contender? I can imagine Blossom with Edric or Opposition would cause some serious trauma!Quote:
Originally Posted by HdH_Cthulhu
Why lose green is what you ought to be asking instead. Deathrite already asks for a single green dual land and Decay is a great SB tool against Miracles and many other decks. By adding a second green source you get to play Edric and Sylvan Library which are extremely powerful effects to have at such a little cost.
I agree. You are mixing different strategies up. Have you checked out maverick or 4c loam?Quote:
Originally Posted by HdH_Cthulhu
Since people are bringing up the idea of YP, Opposition, Quiet Spec and Ling Souls I'll leave this list here that caught my attention from last year.
http://www.tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=16606&iddeck=124308
I eventually abandoned playtesting because of manabase troubles and CotV difficulties but it's definitely a sweet angle. Intangible Virtue is MVP.
I like where you're going with this, though LS seem a bit too mana hungry. YP indeed fills that slot better imo. Another option would be Bitterblossom (stellar VS. Miracles), which makes Spellstutter Sprite appealing (remember that the enchantment itself is a Faerie, too). Also, Therapy and FoW alone leave you too soft to Combo.Quote:
Originally Posted by Qweerios
Here's an interation based on your list (which has 63 cards btw..):
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Baleful Strix
4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Spellstutter Sprite
1 Edric
3 Swords to Plowshares
4 Brainstorm
3 Force of Will
3 Gitaxian Probe
3 Cabal Therapy
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice (much better than BSkull with all those fliers)
3 Bitterblossom
2 Opposition
4 Flooded Strand
3 Polluted Delta
2 Marsh Flats
2 Underground Sea
1 Tundra
1 Tropical Island
1 Savannah
1 Swamp
1 Plains
1 Island
How is Lingering Souls too mana intensive in a deck that wants to play Opposition? Playing 6 three-drops is perfectly reasonable and even more so with Deathrite Shaman. I admit the card can be clunky in some matchups when you see multiples in your opener but you can always shave a copy. Lingering Souls is the whole reason to play white... Just replace Souls with Young Pyro if you think it's better. Also, having experienced playing both Souls and Blossoms in legacy, Blossom pales in comparison to Souls. The only matchup I would give a slight advantage to Blossom over Souls is Miracles, and even that's debatable.
FoW and Therapy are some of the most disruptive combo hate cards to have mainboard. This deck has one of the best disruption suite to handle any combo deck G1... Cutting down on FoW and Speculation in favor of Sprite is in fact weakening the deck to those matchups. If anything, try squeezing a 4th Therapy before adding janky Mental Missteps.
Can someone explain this whole "trying to do too much" thing? I understand that the deck I put forth inherently "can" and "does" a lot of things but in what way is it "trying too much"?
I don't think you are trying to do too much, I just think that you aren't really playing a deck that is suited to abuse opposition like what how the deck in the OP does. I think opposition is probably worse than playing planeswalkers like JTMS, Elspeth, etc in your list.Quote:
Originally Posted by Qweerios
Quote:
Originally Posted by CptHaddock
I am not convinced Jace or Elspeth would be better. Opposition effectively gives new abilities to an army of tokens while Jace and Elspeth give you more cards or make more tokens. Testing will tell...
saw this:
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deck...?DeckID=107881
pretty cool.