[Deck] Two Green

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Originally Posted by Barook

How have the Deserts and Copters been for you? No Chalice obviously spells trouble against combo.

Has anybody the Loam list from Mats saved? It looked like the most reasonable one at dealing with creatures while not sacrificing too much game against the rest of the field.

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Copter has been good. Allowing crucible man to still "attack" by crewing and digging. Also the evasion is nice. It also ate a pridemage activation to clear the way for a jitte. I used the green desert to give my opponents knight +3+3 to trigger revolt lol. Also got to give a goyf +3 while forcing merfolk opponent to block TKS with a jitte with true name to get through damage. If it were instant speed it would be sick. Don't think I got to really use hostile desert in any manner that mattered, though in testing my opponent played Jace, brainstormed, and having 3 power was good for slaying jace.

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Originally Posted by Barook

Since many people run alot of Libraries, I wonder if anybody has tested the old-school combo with Abundance. Drawing 3 each turn while filtering out what you don't need sounds pretty good to me.

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If they printed abundance on a creature it would be an auto include as a 1 of but adding a 4cmc enchanment that has no impact until the following turn and is just meh without library is probably not worth the slot. If you test as a 1 of you probably wont get it enough to get a good read. And adding more will likely feel clunky. Furthermore, what matches does it improve? Does it improve a poor match or just serve as a cool combo to add?

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Originally Posted by apple713

Furthermore, what matches does it improve? Does it improve a poor match or just serve as a cool combo to add?

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Probably the latter.

I do wonder how the green Stompy version is going to deal with creatures AND the combo match-up more effectively. Chalice and Ballista are a nice start, but looking at Thalia Stompy, they seem to have so much more redundancy, even though they might lack a bit of consistency otherwise. Just look at the list at the bottom:

- Combo disruption: Thalia, TKS, Chalice
- creature control: Displacer (+ Containment Priest), Ballista, Jitte, (Karakas)

I love the Snake, but green does rather poorly in terms of combo disruption and creature control. Until those issues are addressed, I don't think it's going to be better than Thalia Stompy, as the advantages seem rather small compared to it.

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Originally Posted by Barook

Probably the latter.

I do wonder how the green Stompy version is going to deal with creatures AND the combo match-up more effectively. Chalice and Ballista are a nice start, but looking at Thalia Stompy, they seem to have so much more redundancy, even though they might lack a bit of consistency otherwise. Just look at the list at the bottom:

- Combo disruption: Thalia, TKS, Chalice
- creature control: Displacer (+ Containment Priest), Ballista, Jitte, (Karakas)

I love the Snake, but green does rather poorly in terms of combo disruption and creature control. Until those issues are addressed, I don't think it's going to be better than Thalia Stompy, as the advantages seem rather small compared to it.

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Lodestone Golem is a much better storm disruptor than Thought-Knot Seer, especially when you're running land disruption. I would stay away from Eldrazi Displacer. It just becomes another eldrazi + taxes list if you go that route. Why would you go for mono green anyway?

If you're afraid of SNT type decks, you need cheap discard effects. I would consider Dryad Arbor + Cabal Therapy + Surgical Extraction since you can replay the arbor from the graveyard anyway. Both Ramunap Excavator / Dryad Arbor and Walking Ballista are useful with Basilisk Collar. Also you need Engineered Plague against elves and perhaps some number of Life Goes On against burn.

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Originally Posted by bruizar

Lodestone Golem is a much better storm disruptor than Thought-Knot Seer, especially when you're running land disruption. I would stay away from Eldrazi Displacer. It just becomes another eldrazi + taxes list if you go that route. Why would you go for mono green anyway?

If you're afraid of SNT type decks, you need cheap discard effects. I would consider Dryad Arbor + Cabal Therapy + Surgical Extraction since you can replay the arbor from the graveyard anyway. Both Ramunap Excavator / Dryad Arbor and Walking Ballista are useful with Basilisk Collar. Also you need Engineered Plague against elves and perhaps some number of Life Goes On against burn.

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Lodestone Golem: Too many non-artifact spells in this deck.
Therapy, Extraction, Collar and Life Goes On are all cmc 1 which is a no-go with Chalice of the Void. If we cut Chalice for discard, why not play DRS, Mom etc. and then we have some kind of (dark)Maverick deck...

I actually like the idea of Golem here. So Lands really help you get over his tax effect pretty well and by the time you have him down you should have enough mana to do whatever you want. If Maverick gets away with Thalia in their Green Sun deck, I think Golem would be fne here.

I think this is where I'll start:

4 Mox Diamond
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Thorn of Amethyst
3 Smuggler's Copter

4 Green Sun's Zenith
2 Sylvan Library
2 Dismember

3 Ramunap Excavator
3 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Tireless Tracker
1 Thragtusk
1 Obstinate Baloth
1 Kitchen Finks
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Deadly Recluse

4 Wasteland
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Forest
3 Windswept Heath
3 Misty Rainforest
2 Bayou
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Dark Depths
1 Thespian's Stage
1 City of Traitors

Not sure about Depths combo but also don't really have anything else to put there. I don't own a Horizon Canopy. Found in a little goldfish testing that the Delver/YP decks are difficult so I'm gonna have a zenithable way to block/kill Delver and lots of lifegain up the curve to stop the bleeding. Ground Seal seems like a good card out of the board. Show & Tell decks seem like a pretty terrible matchup unless you just load up the board with discard.

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Originally Posted by Megadeus

I actually like the idea of Golem here. So Lands really help you get over his tax effect pretty well and by the time you have him down you should have enough mana to do whatever you want. If Maverick gets away with Thalia in their Green Sun deck, I think Golem would be fne here.

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That's true, still I'm not sure if I want to pay 4 mana for an non-tutored Snake or Tracker. Perhaps worth testing...

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Originally Posted by maharis

I think this is where I'll start:
[...]

Not sure about Depths combo but also don't really have anything else to put there. I don't own a Horizon Canopy. Found in a little goldfish testing that the Delver/YP decks are difficult so I'm gonna have a zenithable way to block/kill Delver and lots of lifegain up the curve to stop the bleeding. Ground Seal seems like a good card out of the board. Show & Tell decks seem like a pretty terrible matchup unless you just load up the board with discard.

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I don't think a one-off Dephts/Stage is worth without Knight or some other way to tutor it. Perhaps more City of Traitors? Even if it has it's downsides, City is very good in combination with Snake Man and Tracker...

I know this is probably bot the direction you want to go in BUT it woulf solve all of the decks problems, theoretically.

Add blue for control elements. Blue also gives you access to creature bounce which is essentially removal if they cant cast it again.

You get access to cool blue cards like stifle, voidslime, myatic snake.

Edit: stupid phone

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Originally Posted by apple713

I know this is probably bot the direction you want to go in BUT it woulf solve all of the decks problems, theoretically.

Add blue for control elements. Blue also gives you access to creature bounce which is essentially removal if they cant cast it again.

You get access to cool blue cards like stifle, voidslime, myatic snake.

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Seems mediocre (at least those particular cards). Maybe new stifle bird is good though. All of its costs line up nicely with a stompy mana base. Gonna be tough to fit enough blue stuff for force and if you're not playing brainstorm and you're not playing force, then why blue over like black?

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Originally Posted by Megadeus

Seems mediocre (at least those particular cards). Maybe new stifle bird is good though. All of its costs line up nicely with a stompy mana base. Gonna be tough to fit enough blue stuff for force and if you're not playing brainstorm and you're not playing force, then why blue over like black?

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Black is usually second to blue. Black is proactive, where as blue is reactive. In a vacuum you'd rather react to what is actually happening than proactively discard cards, at which time the most dangerous ones might not be in hand.

Even without force because you are taxing their mana, cards like spell pierce are really good. Honestly i'd probably cut chalice / trinisphere for the blue control component.

Black doesn't really solve your combo problem unless you commit 7+ cards to discard and have chalice. Which can become wasteful.

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Originally Posted by Barook

How have the Deserts and Copters been for you? No Chalice obviously spells trouble against combo.

Has anybody the Loam list from Mats saved? It looked like the most reasonable one at dealing with creatures while not sacrificing too much game against the rest of the field.

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Someone on Reddit posted his article in which he refers to MatsOle; his list has minor changes though. Link: http://www.mtgadept.com/articles/201...al-garden-2017 . Btw, Eternal Garden is a pretty good name for this deck. If you want the exact list, I guess you have to watch his video of the league (he is Mats_ on Twitch, I think the video was from early July).
You stated that his deck has the most balanced game against most of the field, but on XMage (only couple of games) I was often struggling against creature decks, for example DnT. I’ll probably add more Trackers for stalling/recovery/CA and more Toxic Deluge to the sideboard. On the other hand, sometimes this deck is bonkers and leaves the opponent crying with zero permanents while you shit out Titania tokens and draw cards with a growing Tracker. Azusa is probably win-more, but I have to do more testing.
Currently deciding between building this or Thalia Stompy in paper, but nonetheless I’m more interested in that kind of list. I like the approach cutting Chalice for Exploration/ Crop Rotation/ DRS, but in fact we’re Lands.deck with creatures then. Don’t know if that’s a strength or a weakness.

@ Purple Blood: As for the GW lists, there were threads with Titania & Cataclysm or something called Loam-a-Geddon. Maybe there is a reason nobody plays these decks, but otherwise there could be some inspiration. I have no experience with Smokestack though. It may either be bad with Cataclysm, or very good. You could replace the DRS with Arbor Elves and Wild Growth-like cards. But let us know how you perform.

I think one argument to fighting combo is that we have thought knot and warping wail available to us. That's solid and doesn't need a splash of color, just a slight reworking of the mana base

After some testing I came to the conclusion we're all being way too cute here. So I refined into this-ish list, which is much more stompy with a sweet optional combo of Ramunap+ALbS.

Creatures -15
4x Ramunap Excavator
1x Azusa, Lost but Seeking
4x Tireless Tracker
4x Thought-Knot Seer
2x Obstinate Baloth

Artifacts - 8
4x Mox Diamond
4x Chalice of the Void

Spells - 10
4x Green Sun's Zenith
4x Warping Wail (maybe something better, dunno here, flex option)
2x Realms Uncharted

Lands - 27
1x Dryad Arbor
4x Ancient Tomb
3x City of Traitors
4x Hashep Oasis
6x Forest
2x Scavenger Grounds
3x Wasteland
2x Ghost Quarter
1x Haunted Fengraf
1x Horizon Canopy

Sideboard
4x Feed the Clan
3x Tormod's Crypt
4x Beast Within
4x Thorn of Amethyst/Sphere of Resistance

I have been so excited for crucible snake since it was spoiled. My first thought was 8X sol lands, GSZ, excavator,
Crucible, Armageddon, ravages of war. I was imagining G/W Stax, with knight of the reliquary and maybe Sylvan scrying to tutor lands for recursion. I sleeved up a list like this:

Artifact:

4 chalice of the void
4 trinisphere
2 thorn of amythest
4 Mox diamond
4 smokestack
4 crucible of worlds

Instant/Sorcery:

4 Armageddon
4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Sylvan scrying

Creatures:

1 Azusa, lost but seeking
3 ramunap excavator
1 Titania, protector of argoth

Lands:
4 wasteland
3 windswept Heath
1 ghost quarter
1 karakas
1 the tabernacle at pendrell vale
2 Savannah
1 forest
1 plains
4 ancient tomb
4 city of traitors

I didn't play the deck in this iteration. It felt like the smokestack package wasn't at it's best without all the lock pieces (I love brown Stax, tangle wire <3 ), and also like the advantage of the GSZ toolbox was kind of being ignored.

I have read this thread through a few times, and I was really intrigued by the mats_ deck with exploration. I love lands, and one of my favorite decks to play is 12 post with exploration. This list is an example although not exactly as I have played it: mtgtop8 link

So that brings us here, what I'll be playing next time I get a chance to play legacy, so Friday at the latest:
Exploratiovator

I've been goldfishing, and I think it might want a green source or two more. Sideboard is 15 cards that i thought some number might be good to have, obviously not running 1 of each leyline of sanctity and the void.

Nut draws make titania, protector of argoth and as many as 2 tokens on turn 2. Lotus cobra makes for some bananas turns in conjunction with tireless tracker or titania. The card advantage generated between courser of kruphix, Azusa, exploration, horizon canopy, and tracker is formidable, and this deck really chews itself up. In goldfishing you can have 30 permanents in play and a full grip in turns 4 - 6 if things come up hot.

Without chalice or any spheres in the main board I will be very soft to combo game one of course, maybe a main deck bojuka bog to get reanimator and past in flames decks. Wishing for a green Thalia... Any suggestions?



I am looking forward to the real test of deathrite shaman, now that top is banned he seems the be legacy gatekeeper... And I'm relying on the graveyard.

I will post back after playing some games.

@morgan_coke: The complete lack of MD creature removal outside of Warping Wail sounds troublesome.

@Highexalted: Lotus Cobra sounds interesting in this kind of shell - aside from fixing mana, ramping into degeneracy (Titania, Tracker + clue shenanigans, powering up a Ballista) might be cool.

There's not a green Thalia, but you can play thorn as a colorless non legendary Thalia

@morgan_coke

I like that list, I tried some similar straightforward mono green stompy. My problem were always a bad lategame, if I couldn't kill/lock-out my opponent early or the lack of removal for bigger threads...
I'd suggest 1-2 Zuran Orb for the sideboard, if burn is a problem. Also I prefer Thragtusk as mainboard lifegain cause of the single green mana, but depending on the meta Baloth may be the right choice...
How good does Realms Uncharted work?

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Originally Posted by P210

@morgan_coke

I like that list, I tried some similar straightforward mono green stompy. My problem were always a bad lategame, if I couldn't kill/lock-out my opponent early or the lack of removal for bigger threads...
I'd suggest 1-2 Zuran Orb for the sideboard, if burn is a problem. Also I prefer Thragtusk as mainboard lifegain cause of the single green mana, but depending on the meta Baloth may be the right choice...
How good does Realms Uncharted work?

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It's good at deck thinning and CA and setting you up for big plays. It's bad at finding "this land i need right now"