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Umm, Goblins may lose to Hulk Flash but it certainly does not lose to the fish decks/landstill decks that are supposed to beat them (which they don't).Quote:
Originally Posted by bardu
Since wasteland isn't to dominant in the format any more I think it should be a 3 color deck so goblins can have an answer to plague.
dranlu's crusade FTW. Solved.
I wouldn't cut ringleaders out of the main.
4 Wasteland
4 Rishdan Port
4 Bloodstained Mire
2 Wooded Foothills
4 Badlands
5 Mountain
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Aether Vial
4 Goblin Lackey
3 Mogg Fanatic
4 Goblin Piledriver
4 Goblin Warchief
4 Goblin Matron
4 Gempalm Incinerator
4 Goblin Ringleader
2 SGC
SB
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Leyline of the Void
4 Pyrokinesis
3 Duress
Anyone intending on playing Cabal Therapy should be pushing the inclusion of War Marshall. I really cant stress that enough. The fundemental problem with including Cabal Therapy, altho we went over this a couple pages ago, is your sacrificing board position for therapy. You need a better way to fuel the flashback than rely on having Fanatic or Matron.
The deck has a sweet spot in the 2cc that we all exploit in the sb. There are Chalice and Pillar to go alongside drivers 2 drop. Setting yourself up for flashbacked therapy with warmarshall leaves you will 2 1/1's on turn 2. Thats so much more damage than playing therapy into saccing driver/fanatic ect.
You dont want to let go of any goblins when playing therapy or you risk shaving turns off your life.
Assuming HF stays legal past FS and the Grand Prix, I think a Mono-Red build should be looked at. Seriously. Goblins has the potential to absolutely slaughter every deck in existence that's made to beat Hulk Flash, and could possibly develop something as good as a 40-60 against Hulk without a color splash. The main reason I'm advocating the de-splashing is that everything in existence is going to start running Stifle, and I suddenly don't like fetchlands in here much. And a lot of decks will cut Plague for Hulk hate.
Here's the list I've been testing:
14 Mountain
4 Rishadan Port
4 Wasteland
4 Aether Vial
4 Leyline of the Void
4 Goblin Lackey
4 Goblin Piledriver
4 Goblin Warchief
4 Goblin Matron
4 Goblin Ringleader
4 Mogg Fanatic
4 Gempalm Incinerator
2 Siege-Gang Commander
SB:
4 Serum Powder
3 Chalice of the Void
4 Pyrokinesis
4 Red Elemental Blast
The maindecked Leylines have been amazing. It's crippling against Threshold and Iggy Pop, both of which stand to see fair play. Red Death loses its Rotting Giants if you get one out, which are often a large problem for Goblins. You still have the Pyrokinesis for pitch removal. REB helps against all the blue-based aggro control -and- Hulk Flash, as well as Landstill and Solidarity. Chalice will assist across the board and with alternate combo decks like TES. And Serum Powder lets you dig into those immediate Chalices/Leylines.
The gamble of this deck, of course, is that Goblin hate dies down once Hulk Flash takes over, because it has almost no resiliency at all to it. However, I think it's a fantastic deck to start working on once the format shifts to Flash hate and complete anti-goblins decks disappear.
This is also an insanely inexpensive deck to build.
Is it just me or will Goblins never die. I geuss Wizards knew what they were talking about when they made Squee immortal. No matter what they do, some form of little ugly red men is still viable.
EDIT for actual substance: In the versions with CotV SB, could Simian Spirit Guide see some play? Not only would he be solid for powering out a turn 1 Chalice, but turn 1 Lackey/Vial + Waste seems like the tempo play to end all tempo plays. Problem would be the card disadvantage and the prominent not-Gobliness.
Tacosnape, you're going to want more SCG's so that the likelihood (sp?) of going off on turns 3-4 increases... you really want to be able to maintain the fast clock.
I'd consider looking at dropping a Fanatic and/or a Gempalm, since you'll probably need those less out of everything else.
That's probably not a bad idea.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hanni
Here is a list of Goblins that I'm thinking about running at the GP need to put in some testing with the sideboard and see how well the mana-base works out. As Flash is getting pushed to the forefront I don't think there are going to be that many Wasteland decks so I agree with Colasso that 3c Goblins is a better choice for the GP.
Greedy Goblins
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Wasteland
4 Rishadan Port
3 Badlands
2 Taiga
2 Mountain
4 Aether Vial
4 Goblin Lackey
3 Mogg Fanatic
4 Goblin Piledriver
1 Tin Street Hooligan
3 Gempalm Incinerator
4 Goblin Warchief
4 Goblin Matron
4 Goblin Ringleader
2 Siege Gang Commander
4 Leyline of the Void
Sideboard
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Krosan Grip
3 Pyrokinesis
3 Cabal Therapy
1 Tin Street Hooligan
It pained me to cut the 3rd Siege-Gang but there was nothing else I could think of removing to fit the Leylines MD.
I played at the Rochester GPT with Rg Goblins with MD Leyline and they were really good but drawing them with absolutely no way to cast them was annoying. I played against Flash twice losing 1-2 and winning 2-0 other than that I played against; UBW Fish, MUC, and 4c Threshold. I went 4-1 in the Swiss and lost to Aluren in the T8.
The build is decent, similar to something I've been testing against Hulk for when FS is legal. Hulk is definitely going to be played, but it won't be a ridiculous percentage of the field. Although in my post FS build I MD Leyline, I would only suggest running therapies in the main and leyline in the board. Therapy gives you a shot vs Flash, but Leyline is obviously better against it. You don't want to make your other matchups worse in the process though. I've never really agreed with therapy in goblins, but Hulk is everywhere online, and there is a good chance you be paired against a couple combo decks over the course of the GP. Cabal Therapy slows you down, but it also helps against plague, silver knight, and all the cards we really don't like to see. If Hulk appears to be a larger percentage of the field, then Rgb gobs is definitely the best choice.
Honestly from what I've been hearing and seeing in the more recent GPT's Flash is very popular so I'm expecting it to be around 15-20% of the field at the GP. That along with Thresh getting better and more popular due to Flash makes the MD Leylines very strong.
But I suppose MD Therapies would help in that match and are a little more versatile. I was just really impressed by Leyline and have a feeling it will be pretty strong at the GP as well.
I am expecting between probably 10%-15%, probably won't be more than that. Leyline is incredible vs thresh, 43 land, columbus confinement, Iggy pop, TES, and a ton of other decks. Boarding Leyline is definitely justified. Now that hulk is around, Leyline is actually better than Pillar IMO. Like you said Versatility is important, if the craze for hulk gets out of hand, which I doubt it, then MD Leylines would work. Scouting before the day of the GP is important, and last minute tweaks should usually be made. Most players are waiting until FS, but it is possible that a lot of players will turn to hulk last minute out of fear of the deck, but if people think of Hulk Flash as the DTB, then most people will play decks that hate it, which are good matchups for us.
This may have nothing to do with Flash, but I was so amused by it I had to bring it up. IBA suggests Brightstone Ritual as a bizarre answer to Empty the Warrens, so I started testing it against some ETW tossing decks. Here's one of my best results ever and quite possibly the best turn one in the history of Vial Goblins:
Opponent: Turn one, ridiculous shit, 16 ETW Tokens:
Me: (Opening Hand: Plateau, Wasteland, Brightstone Ritual, Brightstone Ritual, Warchief, Ringleader, Matron)
-Plateau, Ritual for 16, Warchief, Ringleader (10 floating.)
-(Ringleader hits Ringleader, Gempalm, Piledriver.)
-Ringleader (7 Floating.)
-(Ringleader hits Matron, Matron, Sharpshooter, Piledriver. Sweet!)
-Matron for Ringleader, Piledriver, Ringleader (1 Floating).
-(Ringleader hits Lackey, SGC)
-Brightstone Ritual for 22, Piledriver, Matron for Matron, Matron for Driver, Matron for Driver, Piledriver, Piledriver, Sharpshooter, Lackey, Gempalm, Siege-Gang (5 Floating.)
-Sharpshooter off all tokens.
-Mana Burn for 5.
-Swing for 179.
LOL best goblin post everQuote:
Originally Posted by Tacosnape
You're my hero!
OMG. I'm going to keep a Brightstone Ritual in my pants for a month after that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tacosnape
I would have to argue that that is the best turn one in the history of turn 1s... and from my knowledge there have been a lot of turn ones....
Super secret tech FTW!!!!
I considered tested this build with the rise of Hulk Flash...
// Mana 22
3 Chrome Mox
4 Wasteland
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Mountain
3 Badlands
// Creatures 26
4 Goblin Lackey
4 Goblin Piledriver
4 Goblin Matron
4 Goblin Warcheif
4 Goblin Ringleader
4 Gempalm Incenerator
2 Siege Gang Commander
// Spells 12
4 Red Elemental Blast
4 Pyroblast
4 AEther Vial
// Sideboard 15
4 Duress
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Extirpate
3 Dralnu's Crusade
Yes, it's call Flash hate.... *sigh....
REBs are good though. I liked them a lot against Fish. It kills Meddling Mage, and firing them at cantrips slow them down so much.
The sad part is that build really isn't all that bad. I'm not sure that I wouldn't reverse the 8 maindeck blasts for maindeck Duress/Therapy, and I think I'd want Leyline in there somewhere, but yeah. Goblins is going to have to adapt to being more aggro-control if it wants to live in the Flash meta.
The only problem I see with running the 8 REBs is that youve now become reactive instead of procative. Dropping the leyline allows you to play the game out as normal, but if you dont have that chrome mox you cant drop your lackey for fear of them going off. Personally, I thing maindeck leyline is the way to go, it gives a little more reach game 1 than the REBs because its not %100 irrelevant in matches like Pikula (Grunts), Red Death (Giants) and Iggy pop,