[Deck] Vial Affinity

4 Cabal Therapy
3 Pithing Needle
3 Shattering Spree
3 Tormods Crypt
2 Jitte
0-3 Winter Orb

Winter Orb is good in metas with mid range control decks like Wombat, Rifter, Truffle Shuffle, Landstill, and Madness. Include it if you see alot of those.

Spree is necessary against Null Rod, Jitte, and Vial. Spree has actually won me games where I had DotV out with no sac engine. Killing one of my opponents artifacts and like 2 of my own just to ekk in that life loss.

Needle fits so well in affinity it should always be in your sideboard. Bring it in against gobs and decks with equipment. Survival obviously.

Therapy is really made for affinity since you can 2 for 1 your opponent on the first turn, (play and sac thopter) or just replace the power of worker with modular.

I like to keep a couple Jitte in the board to bring in against decks with big creatures like the Stompy decks, against decks with their own Jitte, and in any matchups where I think Ill need the life gain. It also helps against gobs. Heres what I sb like..

Gobs
In- 2 Jitte, 3 Pithing Needle
Out- 2 Vial, 1 Thopter, 2 Plating

Putting Needle on Vial is fine even since you play one because gobs gains much more tempo via matron and ringleader. You can easily cast your one and two drops without vial.

Thresh
In- 3 Crypt
Out- 3 Worker

This matchup is amazing, incase you didnt know that. I rarely feel the need to bring in Therapy but if you suspect nasty hate like Null Rod make sure and bring it in. Shit like Worship doesnt work like I already mentioned, thank you dotv. Engineered Explorsives is pretty suckey but as long as your not setting yourself up for it you should be ok. Consider needle if they have a bunch.

Solidarity
In- 4 Therapy
Out- ?

I dont really know what to side out against them, normally Id say workers since hes the weakest link, but you want all your cheap guys with Therapy. Consider taking out Vial because the game shouldnt go long enough were vial matters at all. I might be against that however since I've vialed in DotV for mid comboing death to my opponent. Take out what you feel comfortable with.

Do you feel your black varient has a better Gobs match-up than the classical one (with Myr Enforcers)?

I'm begining my testing of your varient and sometimes feel a lack of beef (missing Enforcer) but that's obviously not an option wiht Confidant.

Goblins really pushes the affinity of seven on enforcer. Gempalm and StP take out artifact creatures and so does blocking lackey/pile. Wastelands take out 2 counts of affinity, the lands supertype and the mana it would produce. Thus they come out too late for my liking. It only gets worse when they bring in Shattering Spree.

At this rate he isnt the super speed ball he should be and a lame 4/4 with no evasion is nothing to goblins, thats why they steamroll through Werebears all day.

Ill take my Confidants over Enforcers all day long.

Ive been playing Thoughtcast instead of Shrap blast, Im not sure how I feel about it yet but so far I really miss being able to win with Disciple and Shrap to the face, avoiding combat. It made the deck more combo geared for victory. Having my thoughtcast REB'd is pretty shitty too.

I really don't know why everyone seems so adverse to running Myr Enforcer with Dark Confidant in the deck. Yes, taking 7 to the face hurts. Is it a good idea to be running 4 in the deck if you run Confidant? Probably not. However, I tested a build with Confidant, Thoughtcast, and Myr Enforcer all MD (only 3 Enforcers) and never had any problems with the lifeloss and I felt as though the deck was much more resilient because of its ability to draw a ton of cards and still beat face.

Although, I honestly don't like Confidant in this deck. Heck, I don't like Confidant in Legacy aggro period. I don't think I've ever kept him around long enough to help me at all, he doesn't beat face particularly well, and the excuse of having him suck up removal away from other targets doesn't really cut it because it's often removal that would've otherwise been dead (random crap like Lightning Bolt, which is generally bad against Ravager, Lava Dart (not that I've seen that all that often, but it did come up a few times) and weaker Incinerators).

This is my personal preference, and it probably isn't a horrible idea to run Confidant in this deck, I just think with the metagame geared around dealing with Goblin Lackey and other smaller creatures that Confidant is very vulnerable and doesn't really further your aggro plan.

Theres no way your playing a deck with 4 Confidants, 4 Frogmite, 4 Thoughtcast, and 3 Enforcers, and staying happy with it. Ive tried, and its retarded. Your either the biggest lucksack on the thread or your Confidants just arent living at all. If your meta takes out one toughness dudes too easily, (burn) then dont play him, but dont exclaim that he shouldnt make the cut. He's clearly mvp. It is true that whatever hate he eats up your aggro team wont be hit by and vise versa. Ive been in alot of situations where I swing team and my opponent spot removals the dude with plating or tog or rav, then I play Confidant and they're left with something else to answer or die regardless of his attack phase. Sending Confidant into the red zone has shown worth its weight in gold when the opponent wants him dead so bad. They'll block him instead of the monster wearing a plating, then I shrap and they die. Sometimes they'll block him over TOG!! Im sorry if you have a meta unsuited for him but try him again when you see a lack or red mana.

I agree, Confidant does not work well with Myr Enforcer. However, I recognize that Enforcer VS Confindant oftentimes depends on the situation. Here's the version that I played last night.

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Land (23)

1 Academy Ruins
4 City of Brass
4 Darksteel Citadel
4 Great Furnace
4 Vault of Whispers

Creatures (27)

4 Dark Confidant
4 Disciple of the Vault
3 Atog
4 Ornithopter
4 Arcbound Worker
4 Arcbound Ravager
4 Frogmite

Other (16)

1 Paradise Mantle
4 Aether Vial
4 Chromatic Star
4 Cranial Plating
3 Fling

SB

1 Fling
2 Shrapnel Blast
1 Feldon's Cane
1 Tormod's Crypt
2 Scrabling Claws
4 Welding Jar
4 Myr Enforcer

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Yes, I know the SB is a big pile, but I didn't have one pre-tournament. I just grabbed a big stack of cards and threw something together. No SS actually cost me games. Myr Enforcer was the only intentional card here. My actual SB has Myr Enforcer, Winter Orb, SS, Tormod's Crypt, etc.

Dark Confidant VS Myr Enforcer

Like I said, they're situation appropriate. I side out my Confidants for Enforcers against Goblins. Usually they just burn Confidant or let it drain me of life. Enforcer is a huge body that comes out early and is difficult to deal with. However, Confidant wins me a lot of games. As long as the opponent isn't too agressive, they MUST kill Confidant. Not destroying it means my card supply doubles and they die.

Fling VS Shrapnel Blast

This is another interesting choice since I want them both at different times. Against aggro, Fling = I win. However, I'm reluctant to use it against control. It's risky to sac a bunch of artifacts only to have your spell Force of Willed. Then again, 15+ easy damage VS 5 seems pretty nice. My metagame is kinder to Fling as long as I bate counters with my other threats.

City of Brass VS Glimmervoid

I didn't have Glimmervoids, and I thought they might be unreliable compared to City of Brass. I was wrong. City of Brass hurts, especially with Confidant in the long game. How much are Glimmervoids running these days? Oh, I also need Blinkmoth Nexus, haha.

Another note: I think Chrome Mox is bad in this deck. I'd much rather play Paradise Mantle.

...

Anyways, onto the tournament: 4 Round Legacy

Round 1 VS MUC: I crushed him in two games straight. I don't even know anything about his deck, except that it was pretty slow. Darksteel Cidatel Aether Vial Ornithopter with Confidant in hand sealed his fate. Game two was pretty much the same. (1-0)

Round 2 VS G/W Beats: I was pretty scared this game- Jitte, Armadillo, Rancor, Beserk, etc. did not sound like much fun. Game one he only drew one land the whole time. Game two I saw Watchwolf with Rancor and Armadillo Cloak. My Ravager, Worker, and Fling couldn't stand up, so I scooped. Game three was looking like game two- I was getting crushed. I had lots of land, Vial, and Atog in play. He has some huge creatures about to crush me. My draw was Fling, and I hit him for 17, winning the game. (2-0)

Round 3 VS Goblins: Game one was pretty bad. He was playing lots of burn, allowing him to kill all of my key creatures. I drew into land with a Lackey on the table :( Game two I sided in 4 Enforcer and 4 Welding Jar, taking out 4 Chromatic Star and 4 Confidant. Two Enforcers on turn four loomed down at him while he drew 1/1's and land. Game three was super close- Atog Disciple of the Vault with lethal damage on the stack outplayed his burn spells and Siege-Gang. (3-0)

Round 4 VS WUB: Anyone know what this deck is called? Brainstorm, Confidant, FoW, STP, Jitte, that 4/4 for 1W, Vindicate SB, etc. I lost in two straight games. He killed all of my creatures, countered my Flings, destroyed my Platings, and bashed my head in with Jitte on Mr. 4/4 1W. SS and Winter Orb would have beat him, but I didn't have any with me :( Does anyone have any other SB tech against aggro control like that?

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In conclusion, Confidant kills, but I would definately play Enforcer in the SB. Thoughts?

I too dislike Chrome Mox. What to replace it with? I'm not sure. Paradice Mantel doesn't look bad though.

How was the 1 Academy Ruins?

That deck you played against in the last round is UWb Fish. On another note, round 2 g2, couldn't you have sacked 4 other artifacts to Ravager, floating mana, Flinging the Ravager at the oversized Watchwolf moving the counters to Worker, then tried to take it back with a 6/6.

The Academy Ruins was actually pretty bad, haha. I really don't recommend using it. Blinkmoth Nexus is 40937450238502398540 times better- I don't even think I used Academy Ruins once. There are situations where it would be game saving, but they really don't seem to come up enough to warrant playing it over other cards. Paradise Mantle seems good, although playing one is kind of inconsistant. I'm thinking of dropping a Fling and testing two Paradise Mantle. I'll let you know how it goes.

Alright, thanks for the UWb fish name :) I can't really remember what happened R2G2, but you're probably right. I remember thinking I was in a large amount of trouble, but that might have just been other forces talking to me.

I'm experimenting with some unusual choices (or better, omissions), here's the list:


2 Glimmervoid
4 Blinkmoth Nexus
4 Great Furnace
4 Seat Of The Synod
4 Vault Of Whispers

4 Ornithopter
4 Disciple Of The Vault
4 Arcbound Worker
4 Arcbound Ravager
4 Frogmite
4 Myr Enforcer

4 Chromatic Star
4 Cranial Plating
4 Thoughtcast
3 Shrapnel Blast
3 Pithing Needle


1. No Vial
The only creatures you want to vial out are the Arcbounds and Disciples. Unlike Vial in Goblins, I got the impression that Vial in Affinity is one of the weaker cards. Paradise Mantle was also too weak. The best "fixer" is Chromatic Star.
I included some Needles in their places, and haven't regretted it so far.
In counter-heavy metagames, Vial is a better, so one might say this is a metagame decision. However, for a mixed metagame, I like maindeck Needle a lot better. I boarded them in so frequently that it's better to side them out if you don't need them.


2. No Atog
With Atog, you're often going all-in, and that gamble hasn't paid off for me. It also was sitting uselessly in my hand too often for my taste, either because I couldn't cast him or he would have been useless anyway. Atog is also not an artifact, which surprisingly matters sometimes.


Thoughts?

Quote:

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1. No Vial
The only creatures you want to vial out are the Arcbounds and Disciples. Unlike Vial in Goblins, I got the impression that Vial in Affinity is one of the weaker cards. Paradise Mantle was also too weak. The best "fixer" is Chromatic Star.
I included some Needles in their places, and haven't regretted it so far.
In counter-heavy metagames, Vial is a better, so one might say this is a metagame decision. However, for a mixed metagame, I like maindeck Needle a lot better. I boarded them in so frequently that it's better to side them out if you don't need them.

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Vial allows you to do combat tricks that wouldn't be available to you otherwise. It creates surpirse blockers, suprise creature pump with Ravager, and surpirse life loss with Disiple. Plus, Affinity needs Disciple/Ravager/Atog to do well. Vial guarentees that they come down. It also speeds the deck up and smoothes the mana base.

Quote:

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With Atog, you're often going all-in, and that gamble hasn't paid off for me. It also was sitting uselessly in my hand too often for my taste, either because I couldn't cast him or he would have been useless anyway. Atog is also not an artifact, which surprisingly matters sometimes

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You wouldn't have as many problems casting Atog if you played Vial. Atog is necessary, it makes the combo win more likely.

Valid points.

However, with only 12 creatures to vial in, Vial is not powerful enough. It's also a weak topdeck and something you don't want to see late-game. I'd rather have some Chromatic Spheres, which are better in the late-game.


I think there are two possible directions for Affinity:

1. URB - Thoughtcast, Enforcer, no Vial

2. BR - Confidant, Atog, Vial


The experimental decklist above belongs to category 1. URB might be more explosive, but BR seems to be the more consistant one of the two.

I found Vial a tremendous help even without Dark Confidant (which I personally don't like unless I have a way of playing it turn 1... which creates even bigger topdecking issues).

Not only does it help stabilising your mana base and allow for combat tricks, it makes powering out Enforcers turn 2 and 3 much easier. I also run 2 Paradise Mantles in addition and no non-artifact lands for the same reason, and it works like a charm.

Here's a list I've been playing for the heck of it and it's been pretty decent.

Lands - 19
4 U artifact land
4 B arti land
4 R arti land
4 Darksteel Citadel
3 Blinkmoth Nexus

Creatures – 25
4 Disciple of the Vault
3 Ornithopter
4 Arcbound Worker
4 Arcbound Ravager
4 Frogmite
4 Myr Enforcer
2 Atog

other – 16
3 Lotus Petal
4 Chromatic Star
4 Thoughtcast
3 Cranial Plating
2 Tormod’s Crypt

It doesn't have Vial but I haven't missed it. Lotus Petal can lead to some pretty busted starts. The 2x Crypt can be changed out for Needle/Fling/Shrap Blast, etc. I just thought I'd throw down a decent non-Vial list for you guys to pick apart. The deck doesn't have much of a late game but it is Affinity after all. ;)

About Atog: Sometimes he's crap but it's nice to have another "Ravager" to just win with Disciple. I've been happy with 2 but could see 3 in a two color build of Affinity.

Maybe the Vial/Needle debate is a personal preference.

I agree that Vial has multiple uses and all, but it doesn't do enough for me, particularly when drawn later.

Needle on the otherhand has been simply amazing. There are so many activated abilities, you'll find a target against almost everything. Needle is quality disruption and gives Affinity an aggro-control feel. It simply shores up so much of it holes and is a cheap artifact to boot, I'd say it's better than Vial at this point.

Edit: It's also nice that you can name Vial against Goblins without interfering with your own plan. Maindeck Needle really helps to tilt game 1 in your favor, which is important against the de facto best and most popular deck.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bongo

Maybe the Vial/Needle debate is a personal preference.

I agree that Vial has multiple uses and all, but it doesn't do enough for me, particularly when drawn later.

Needle on the otherhand has been simply amazing. There are so many activated abilities, you'll find a target against almost everything. Needle is quality disruption and gives Affinity an aggro-control feel. It simply shores up so much of it holes and is a cheap artifact to boot, I'd say it's better than Vial at this point.

Edit: It's also nice that you can name Vial against Goblins without interfering with your own plan. Maindeck Needle really helps to tilt game 1 in your favor, which is important against the de facto best and most popular deck.

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I wouldnt bother playing the deck without at least 2-3 Atogs because your falling short of the combo win too often. You dont have any outs to an enemy pithing needle naming Ravager. You also take more of a pounded from named card since they dont even need to name vial if your playing without it. That leaves to targets, rav and plating.

I chose to keep Shrapnal Blast in over Thoughcast because I found blue wasnt worth splashing just for card advantage +1. Shrapnal Blast acts as removal, which thoughcast cant replicate. Shrap also allows you to throw those 'needled' artifacts at your opponent so stay usefull.

One of the greatest threats with vial is DotV. He's the most important spell to counter since he shaves a whole turn off solidarity. Vialing him in to respond to Shattering Spree or Deed is also amazing.

The other hugemongous reason to be playing vial is Tog. Ive won many games where my opponent tapped out seeing no potential threats only to have me vial atog out eot and swing on my turn for 12+ and the win.

Your reasons to cut vial are shadowed by advantages of its inclusion. Perhaps you need to accomidate for it by including more 2 drops. If your really bent on keeping blue in consider the addition of Meddling Mage.

Although I tested some different versions of Affinity, I still can't reach a consensus about which version to run.

There are two ways that contend for the title of "best Affinity deck":

1. URB Mantle Affinity

2 Glimmervoid
3 Blinkmoth Nexus
4 Great Furnace
4 Seat Of The Synod
4 Vault Of Whispers

4 Ornithopter
4 Disciple Of The Vault
4 Arcbound Worker
4 Arcbound Ravager
4 Frogmite
4 Myr Enforcer

4 Paradise Mantle
4 Chromatic Star
4 Cranial Plating
4 Thoughtcast
3 Shrapnel Blast


2. BR Confidant Affinity

2 Badlands
3 Blinkmoth Nexus
4 Great Furnace
4 Darksteel Citadel
4 Vault Of Whispers

4 Ornithopter
4 Disciple Of The Vault
4 Arcbound Worker
4 Arcbound Ravager
4 Frogmite
4 Dark Confidant
2 Atog

4 Aether Vial
4 Chromatic Star
4 Cranial Plating
3 Shrapnel Blast
2 Pithing Needle


I've had the best results with those two builds. Mantle is more explosive, while Confidant has a better late-game. Any opinions?

EDIT: Maybe it was a bit unclear from the post - which version do you think is better?

I think you should try mage if your playing blue. It makes it much more worth it and if you like the aggro/control feel you'll love the swap from tog to mage. I know I said playing without tog is a liability but you have coverage from MM. Mantle helps you get your white mana and mage wears it beautifully while the machines make war. This gives you the option of swords in the board to help with stompy decks. (jitte sucks!)

I dont know which list is better but I think my preference lies with confidant. 4/4's with no evasion are great if you cast them turns 1-2 but after that each one will just start looking better as bob. Especially if control terrorizes your meta.



Is anyone planning to bring affinity to columbus?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bane_of_the_living

Is anyone planning to bring affinity to columbus?

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I'm not really planning on bringing affinity to Columbus, but I will bring Foil Affinity to Columbus. I do think its a very good choice for the current metagame, but I could also be totally wrong.

Quote:

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I'm not really planning on bringing affinity to Columbus, but I will bring Foil Affinity to Columbus. I do think its a very good choice for the current metagame, but I could also be totally wrong.

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It depends a lot on match-ups. If you hit combo or Rifter more than once, you're probably done. Affinity has a good chance against everything else though.