I can cut a Verdant for a Marsh. Thats fine. What do I cut for Terravore? Could I cut 3x Mindcensor for 1x Thrun, 1x E Wit, and 1x Terravore? If not, what would do well?
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I can cut a Verdant for a Marsh. Thats fine. What do I cut for Terravore? Could I cut 3x Mindcensor for 1x Thrun, 1x E Wit, and 1x Terravore? If not, what would do well?
I think Eternal Witness is not really needed in the deck. With the help of GSZ, SfM, KotR, we can pull answers out of our library instead of the GY.
Eternal Witness doesn't pull answers. Eternal Witness generates card advantage and helps you fight through counters. It fills a completely different role than Green Sun's Zenith.
Hi there,
here my actual list, with wich i won last week the Legacy in Nuremberg (44players) and made 6. place this week:
"For the Shire"
//lands (22)
4x windswept heath
2x verdant catacombs
4x savannah
3x horizon canopy
2x forest
1x plains
3x wasteland
1x karakas
1x maze of ith
1x dryad arbor
//creatures (25)
4x noble hierarch
4x knight of the reliquary
3x stoneforge mystic
3x aven mindcensor
2x qasali pride-mage
1x quirion ranger
1x scryb ranger
1x gaddock teeg
4x mother of runes
1x eternal witness
1x thrun the last troll
//other spells (13)
4x green sun's zenith
4x swords to plowshares
2x sylvan library
1x umezawa's jitte
1x sword of feast and famine
1x batterskull
//sideboard
2x aethersworn canonist
1x thrun the last troll
1x loaming shaman
3x choke
2x path to exile
2x krosan grip
1x bojuka bog
1x sword of light and shadow
2x tormod's crypt
Thoughts: First of all i think, GW hast no need for Goyf anymore - any other creature does more. Second i have to say that sylvan library is rly great (better than Elspeth or crusaders - it's tested).
Third: I think, scavenging ooze will become a great card for the deck. I still don't know, wether i want to play it MD in the witness-slot or in the board in the shaman-slot...
For any questions about my build - PM or post in the threat :-)
PS: Hive mind isnt a factor in our metagame - if it is, i consider angel's grace the best way to beat it, since it does not only stop his combo but also kills him in his next turn.
Greetz,
Marius Hausmann
Very good list, it could be the direction to take.
I can sustain your points against Goyf and for Sylvan Library and Scavenging Ooze.
I still don’t like Teeg main. I think the metchups where it’s useful are not frequent enough to risk to draw a bear shutting down your GSZs. Better keep it the board.
Some questions:
- Why did you opt for Sword of Feast and Famine main?
- Why did you include Quirion Ranger? Is it worth?
- How’s your control metchup without Elspeth?
Your build is probably dependent on your local meta I found this tournament:
http://www.thecouncil.es/tcdecks/deck.php?id=6309
Looks Maverick infected :)
So that's why Maverick showed up in DTB forums XDQuote:
Originally Posted by Fatal
Congrats! (anyone have time to parse the 6 Maverick lists there for trending?)
EDIT: Nevermind, it looks like most of the lists are identical to the on posted a few posts up. What's the rational for Quirion Ranger?
@ Wasteland
I sat up for hours last night making a GW Maverick build, and I brainstormed a list only a few cards different from yours. Interesting...
-Matt
Last Monday i made top 4 of a 35 player legacy tourney. Hadn't really played Legacy tournaments in while so on Sunday i just threw a list together and off i went.
I went 5-0-1 in the swiss beating Combo Elves, Doomsday Tendrils, NO Bant, BUGstill, Dark Tempo Thresh and IDing against another Dark Thresh deck. Then i beat the same BUGstill player again in the quarterfinals and lost to Merfolk in the semis. A bit disappointed about losing to the fish though.
Maindeck
4 Wasteland
4 Windswept Heath
4 Savannah
2 Forest
1 Plains
2 Horizon Canopy
2 Misty Rainforest
1 Gaea's Cradle
1 Maze of Ith
1 Dryad Arbor
3 Mother of Runes
4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Noble Hierarch
2 Qasali Pridemage
4 Knight of the Reliquary
1 Tarmogoyf
1 Scryb Ranger
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Eternal Witness
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Mental Misstep
1 Batterskull
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Fire/Ice
2 Elspeth
Sideboard:
2 Mirran Crusader
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
2 Enlightened Tutor
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Pithing Needle
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Phyrexian Metamorph
1 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Path to Exile
2 Krosan Grip
1 Bojuka Bog
After playing with the list i probably would cut down on the Savannah's too. The maximum number isn't really needed and the extra basics can be useful in some situations. All though getting G+W is so important for this deck and cutting myself of white once in a while protecting against Wasteland was a bit of a problem. Against Merfolk i kept Heath, Wasteland, Hierarch, Zenith and some other creatures. Then fetching a forest and getting the Hierarch misstepped was pretty rough. Though getting Savannah instead and getting that wasted is even worse.
Maze of Ith was pretty bad all day and side-boarded it out quite a bit too. The only game i actually fetched it was against NO Bant. Elspeth wasn't that great either for me just used it once all day when Mirran Crusader came crashing in for 12. Also she got shut out by Teeg a couple of times where i felt he was more important. Really want to try Sylvan Library in her spot now.
Loved the Mental Missteps in this deck. The versatility really helps. I guess that's just more personal preference then actually a necessity for this archetype.
Thrun was really really good for me too. He singlehandedly won me multiple games against BUGstill as they just have a few outs and some can be covered even. Pretty good against DTT too as just goyfs can stop him there. Mirran Crusader is sweet against them as well, but his slot is more a meta-game call then really something you always want i think.
Congrats on the nice finish! It's a shame that Merfolk dispatched you in the end, but still a good performance! I'm glad that I'm not the only one experiencing some of the idiosyncrazies that this deck dishes out (mana issues, Elspeth, Sylvans, etc).Quote:
Originally Posted by maza
I'm thinking that Goyf is on the chopping block soon, it's not very useful 90% of time, but it's still a very large 2-drop that's often needed to bridge the go to KotR.
How did your sideboarding go during the tournament? Did you find any cards that seemed like a good inclusion, but played out poorly?
I have the same feeling about goyf too I go for Scryb Ranger more than him nowadays when Izenith for 2
Maverick is really popular in EU even before it was a DTB in the US. I think it started picking up when green and taxes was played by lewis laskin in the earlier SCG tourney of the year.
Thanks. Sideboarding was fine. But wasn't that impressed with it to be honest.Quote:
Originally Posted by rukcus
Engineered Explosives seems really narrow. It saved me one time against the Elfs as he had 4 one drops and destroyed his whole board with it. And didn't really see anyone with Empty the Warrens.
Don't know about the graveyard hate either. Two slots don't seem enough against Dredge and against other KotR decks i don't feel like bringing in Crypt. Maybe just Bog is fine then.
The Metamorph can probably go too. I added him because a friend was playing NO Bant. When i played him Teeg and Wasteland did enough to stop Natural Order. Plus that i don't like bringing in the Tutors for 1 card.
Pithing Needle and Krosan Grip are just so versatile. Although i feel Needle is much stronger then Grip in this deck as you got Pridemages. In just a very few cases it's actually better. Not sure about Path either don't think i ever brought it in. Must have been a mistake in the DTT match.
Thrun and the Crusaders were really good and so was the Canonist both against Elves and DD. I would add more Canonist probably, because against the decks you need it you want it as fast as possible anyway. Choke seems very good too, but i don't have any of them so that's why i didn't play them.
The people here in Nuremberg started probably with my list from Bazaar of Moxen 5. Here is the list I played for reference:
– 10th place -
Zenith GW, by Niklas Kronberger (schniggaz)
Business (38)
1 Tarmogoyf
4 Knight of the Reliquary
3 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Mother of Runes
2 Qasali Pridemage
1 Quirion Ranger
1 Scryb Ranger
3 Aven Mindcensor
1 Birds of Paradise
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Eternal Witness
1 Gaddock Teeg
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Green Sun’s Zenith
1 Umezawa’s Jitte
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
1 Batterskull
4 Swords to Plowshares
Lands (22)
2 Forest
2 Horizon Canopy
1 Gaea’s Cradle
1 Karakas
3 Wasteland
4 Windswept Heath
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Temple Garden
4 Savannah
1 Plains
Sideboard (15)
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Phyrexian Metamorph
1 Tormod’s Crypt
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Wheel of Sun and Moon
2 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Enlightened Tutor
2 Krosan Grip
1 Serenity
2 Path to Exile
1 Bojuka Bog
The list was amazing. Didn't lose a match during swiss (7-0-2) and in my Top 16 match against a friend of mine (he won the tournament with BUGStill) we had to start the game 3 with "first blood". Really strange.
After the tournament Wasteland (Marius H) was really excited about the deck and started to pick it up. I was really glad he made a few good suggestions. (e.g. cutting the Goyf)
Cutting the Tarmogoyf was one of the best thing that happened to the deck. I never tutored it. In the early game I always tutor for some acceleration or utility (Ranger,Teeg,Qasali) with my GSZ. And if the game goes on I wanted to have something that wins the game like Thrun or Knight. Tarmogoyf was never impressive.
Right now we are discussing whether Sylvan Library or Elspeth is better in this deck. Both cards shine against control decks, but Library isn't that great against deed.dec. Therefore Elspeth is just insane. In my opinion it's a meta choice. If you expect a lot of BUG list, then play Elspeth, otherwise go with the Library.
I was wondering why most of you do not play Aven Mindcensor. He is broken :D
He is amazing in all the match-ups that aren't good for us and is nearly never a dead draw. Natural Order and Infernal Tutor decks can be really hard. Sometimes it's able to race an Progenitus but most of the time you are going to lose once Natural Order resolves. Furthermore the Mindcensor answers opposing Fetchlands, Knight of the Reliquarys, GSZ, Intuition, Doomsday, Goblin Matrone ...and so on...
As you can see, in most of the match-ups he is great. He's also flying and likes to carry an equipment.
A few words about the second Ranger, Quirion Ranger!
The deck is all about crazy tricks. Most of the creatures have activated abilities that make this deck so exciting. So one Ranger was most of the time not enough. It was killed way to often. If you play a GSZ for X=1 it almost never gets countered. Once you have your Quirion Ranger on the table and there is one Knight or Mother of Runes on the table too, you are in a good position to win the game.
The next good thing about the Quirion Ranger is that he helps you to stabilize your mana base. Imagine a hand like this (Land,Noble, GSZ, Stoneforge, ...) ;only one land. With the opportunity to search for an Quirion it's possible to win the game with only one land in your whole game. I highly recommend to play a second Ranger.
(Qurion Ranger also blocks Goblin Lackey on the draw ;-))
Maze of Ith: I think that we are the aggro deck and do not have to fear other aggro decks, at least with Batterskull in our deck). In my opinion Maze of Ith isn't necessary any more.
SoFaF: Most of you agree that pro Green is one the important things. Now you add pro Black (pro: removal), a great ability against control (discard) and a way to play way more threats each turn (untap all your lands) and you have the perfect equipment for the deck.
Compared to SoBaM: SoBaM has pro Merfolk, but once the people realized that GW Maverick is the best deck in the format, there will not be any Merfolk decks any more :D The 2/2 bear is not necessary, our deck only plays creatures. So there is always a creature to equip. And is milling your opponent good in legacy? Son't think so.
Compared to SoFaI: It was one of my favorite swords before the printing of Batterskull. In the matchups where you tutored for the SoFaI you can go now for Batterskull or Jitte. Both are most of the time better then SoFaI.
So here is the list I am playing right now:
Business (38)
4 Knight of the Reliquary
3 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Mother of Runes
2 Qasali Pridemage
1 Quirion Ranger
1 Scryb Ranger
3 Aven Mindcensor
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Eternal Witness
1 Terravore
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Green Sun’s Zenith
1 Umezawa’s Jitte
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
1 Batterskull
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Sylvan Library
1 Elspeth Knight-Errant
Lands (22)
2 Forest
2 Horizon Canopy
1 Karakas
3 Wasteland
4 Windswept Heath
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Arid Mesa
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Temple Garden
4 Savannah
1 Plains
Sideboard (15)
2 Krosan Grip
2 Path to Exile
3 Mirran Crusader
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
1 Gaddock Teeg
2 Choke
1 Life from the Loam
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Ravenous Trap
Right now I have a few questions too:
1. Why is nobody at Starcitygames succesful with the deck?
2. Library or Elspeth? What do you think?
3. Does anyone know where I can get three Foil Japanese Windswept Heath? I really want to finish my deck.
Hopefully my english isn't too bad.
Have you ever considered replacing the 2 chokes in your SB with 2 more Thruns? I currently run 0 Thrun in my 75 and 3 choke SB and might try 3 Thruns instead (or maybe a 1/2 config.)
Btw, went 3-1 yesterday again, winning against Belcher (wanted to vomit when I saw what I was up against, but it was a bad player with a bad list, so GSZ -> Pridemage/Teeg and Batterskull > ETW got the job done), dredge and UW Visions control, losing against Gerry T. Landstill (preboard still sucks immensly, postboard had to break 3 standstills and swallowed all 4 swords and 2 paths, never saw a choke/elspeth the whole game :( ).
Also, please post your pimp Maverick :)
@schniggaz
My list looks pretty much the same, i recently added 3 Mindscensors and they miracle with equips. It is also nice that you can have a solid MD answer to NO and flashing it in t2 in resp to a fetchie trigger when your on the play can be gamebreaking.
I'm curious about your Temple Garden as a 5th Savannah. Imo a 3rd Canopy serves the job better, as you mostly don't use it too often until you cycle it, so there isn't much lifeloss, plus it feeds the Knights and the singleton Terravore. Can you explain on that please.
@Tarmogoyf
I went down from 3 to 1 and now to zero copies and totally agree with schniggaz in that case.
Still, when you play Mental Misstep, 1-3 copies are valid, as he can grow big more frequently.
Ok time for some answers:
First of all I wouldn't Cut all Goyfs out, actually meta is full of Red splash goyfs is your cheapest wall for 2, also its best answer for 2 for opposite Goyf - I lost all match against TA because i didn't have 2 mana answer vs its Goyf. So best way - one Goyf stay under zenith - unless we get green creature for 2 with protection from burn/goyf.
Sylvan Library Shine in every control MU but it isn't great vs Tempo/Aggro when actually board position and life matters. So if your meta have a lot of tempo/aggro better choose Elspeth its nuts flying over dudes.
Maze of Ith is a next meta slot, mostly useful as defending, sometimes offensive - vs random meta I would never cut it - it make a job against so many random things like Dark Depths dude, Champion from Affinity or just fog vs terravore/kotr so its useful a lot. Can be side out for bojuka for example if your MU is full of KotRs / Dredge.
Aven Mindcensor looks really good in actually meta i have to test it (after i find a place for them).
Choke helps also vs Merfolks MU so I would put Thrun in more than 1-2 it's isn't so impressive because its so much mana expensive.
About equips SoFF is very good could be on side/MD.
Also post your pimped Maverick (actually I'm having about 70% of deck in foil but still missing the stamples :/ )
@Bzka:
With 2 Rangers and 4 Knights you always want to have some Forests. Here in Nuremberg we have to play the Mirror every week. It's always a really long game, stalled by Mother of Runes and the Rangers. After you resolve a Knight you are going to pump it every turn. Sometimes you definetely need more Forest to be able to use your Knight again and still be able to do some Ranger tricks. If you only draw Hierarchs, Canopy, Plains, Karakas and Wastelands as mana sources, your Rangers aren't good anymore xP So I decided to play more Savannahs.
@Philipp2293:
I definetely want both threats against blue control decks. I want Thrun and Chokes. Because Thrun doesn't win against cards like Perish and Wrath of God. Choke does (sometimes).
@Fatal:
In our meta there aren't many red splashes --> no Goyf is needed. But I can understand if you want to play the best green creature :D
I do not want to post my Deck until it is finished. Perhaps I have to realize that it is not possible to get the Fetchies in the near future. So who knows. Perhaps next week ;-)
Missing:
3 Foil Japanese Windswept Heah
1 Foil Japanese Noble Hierarch
1 Foil Japanese Dryad Arbor (already scouted on ebay :P)
IMHO sylvan >> elspeth. You can play it earlier and it is usually game against control.
It is also good against tempo, and isnt needed WW to play it.
I have never played maze of ith in WG, and never sicken for it.
I prefer play choke on sb rather than thrun. if you resolves a thurn, landstill player can do his game: crucible or loam to block with mishra until he resolves a wrath of god or perish. In the other way, choke prevents your opponet doing his game, and if he is full-taped can be game (just need to punch fast)
How is this deck better than zoo and how would you convince a BUG control player to play something non-blue?
You get to play a SFM dedicated deck, with much more stable manabase. Admittedly, it's Zoo w/o the red duals, which isn't much of a selling point in this blue metagame. :\Quote:
Originally Posted by raptorcardz
I don't play Maverick (I'm primarily a Zoo player), but Maverick is capable of running more creatures and better creatures than Zoo. Stoneforge package backed up by Mother of Runes with Mirran Crusader, as some decks run, is pretty sweet. It can also support more Wastelands than Zoo.Quote:
Originally Posted by raptorcardz
The disadvantages are that it can't support Wild Nacatl, it runs significantly less removal, and it has no reach like Zoo does. I also think red sideboard options from Zoo are great in the current metagame.
hello all
i posted earlier but non bothered to answer my question... with all the MAVERICK rush in the meta... what are your game plans against a fellow maverick deck..., and do you think allotting cards in your sideboard against maverick mirror is a good move.
Shizzle + Wasteland:
We ave been brewing around since december with several form of maverick, coming from gw Taxes to our builds as of now here in the Dortmund Region. What are your sentiments about NO Prog in Maverick? I still like it as is the Oops i win button against a lot of decks, but Aven might be the better choice with the rise of RUG Order.
Feel free to comment my actual list, still looking for improvements:
// Lands
2 [UNH] Forest
1 [ZEN] Plains (4a)
2 [FUT] Horizon Canopy
3 [TE] Wasteland
2 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest
4 [ON] Windswept Heath
3 [R] Savannah
1 [FUT] Dryad Arbor
1 [LG] Karakas
1 [US] Gaea's Cradle
1 [B] Tropical Island
// Creatures
3 [ARB] Qasali Pridemage
2 [TSP] Scryb Ranger
3 [UL] Mother of Runes
4 [CFX] Noble Hierarch
4 [CFX] Knight of the Reliquary
1 [FD] Eternal Witness
3 [WWK] Stoneforge Mystic
1 [OD] Terravore
1 [CFX] Progenitus
1 [OD] Wild Mongrel
// Spells
4 [IA] Swords to Plowshares
1 [BOK] Umezawa's Jitte
4 [VI] Natural Order
4 [MBS] Green Sun's Zenith
2 [LG] Sylvan Library
1 [MBS] Sword of Feast and Famine
1 [NPH] Batterskull
// Sideboard SB:
2 [ALA] Ethersworn Canonist
1 [WWK] Terastodon
1 [LRW] Gaddock Teeg
1 [MBS] Thrun, the Last Troll
3 [ZEN] Summoning Trap
3 [ZEN] Spell Pierce
2 [TSB] Tormod's Crypt
2 [CFX] Path to Exile
61 Cards, so i might cut the Mongrel and change 1 Scryb Ranger for a Quirion. Even though the Spell Pierces worked great pre Misstep, i feel like they aren't needed anymore. If i get of them, the Tropical will leave and i am not 100% sold on the Cradle, as i tend to have it in my opening 7 without another green source.
I think that sideboard with white can be just as flexible as sideboard with red. In fact I'd generally play this deck over Zoo. Whenever I build the sideboard, I'm asking myself, why do I want red? Generally, red gives you the red blasts. Which can be used
1) Against Merfolk
2) To win counter battles
3) To stop some combo cards
4) To limit control decks/JTMS, I guess
That's why I run them in the RUG Order. Merfolk is a good match up already (for both Zoo and Maverick), and you're not likely to win counter battles with either deck (seeing as combo decks run both FoW and Misstep now). And its not likely you run a spell that absolutely needs resolving, like Natural Order.
Blasts stops Show and Tell and JTMS, right, but the SNT/Control decks run counters, they generally run Missteps, again you're unlikely to win this 'counterbattle' and it requires you to have mana open and mainly there're better cards to fight this stuff.
For these very reasons, when I've played big Zoo, I've never run the Blasts - they are barely needed and barely work at all in this kind of deck. That's why I think they're unnecessary in Maverick and the G/W SB is finely work.
Now, onto why Maverick is better than Zoo. Personally I'd play with Maverick today over Zoo (when I say Zoo I mean big Zoo, as 'fast' Zoo is quite different) any day.
1) It runs more sizeable threats and is capable of deploying and protecting (Mother of Runes) them much faster.
2) It runs better disruption package (more wastelands, Mindcensors, Thrun, teeg etc) and can deploy them faster than Zoo, which is important.
3) Manabase, being G/W and having more fixers/accel is more stable.
4) It generally runs more gas and more Horizon Canopies to help lategame.
Zoo has some selling points too though
1) Nacatl for early offense, and Lavamancer/Pfire for "recursive" burn
2) Some reach, although with the amount of burn, its really marginal, you're likely to win through combat
NO maverick is generally called zeta bomb, here's a list for example : http://www.thecouncil.es/tcdecks/dec...9&iddeck=42835Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackStarDeceiver
It's generally developped on the italian forum. Most lists include Rafiq and some even go fauna + loyal retainers.
I really think Aven Mindcensor is really good against mirror it affects alot of the strong points of the deck like SFM GSZ and KOTR and this deck also has a weakness against equipped flyers.Quote:
Originally Posted by _erbs_
when I tested with ruckus it came down to who has elspeth first
For the mirror 3 things matter the most:
1: Mother of Runes: Play 4. I keep preching this since forever and it seems by now most people have come to the same conclusion. In the mirror MoR is imo the most important card. Playing without turn 1 MoR vs.turn 1 MoR is extremely difficult because you lose too much Tempo playing around it.
2: Equipment: Obviously very important. Make sure to play 4 SFM, a Green Sword and if the Meta is heavily GW infected also a White Sword maindeck. For the same reason play at least 3 Qasali Pridemages. Also run one Witness because it will get back used Qasali's, destroyed Equipment or Swords to Plowshares.
3: Evasion: Scryb Ranger is awesome in the Mirror so play at least one MD for GSZ in the new Meta. Getting Scryb Ranger + MoR online is hard to beat. Mindcensor is solid as well as Elspeth for reasons stated by Proxy. Also 1 Bird of Paradise instead of one / on top of your Hierarchs. Finally the one Terravore also counts as Evasion.
With those things you should be well equipped for the mirror and from then on it gets pretty skill intensive unless one has a draw that blows the other out.
Here's what I built on MODO. I've only had it build for a couple days, but I've managed to grind with it in the practice room and run it through a few 2-mans and the list is just a monster.
4 Wasteland
3 Savannah
4 Windswept Heath
3 Horizon Canopy
2 Plains
2 Forest
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Tropical Island
1 Tundra
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Karakas
4 Noble Hierarch
1 Birds of Paradise
2 Tarmogoyf
3 Knight of the Reliquary
1 Sylvan Safekeeper
3 Mother of Runes
3 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Rhox War Monk
3 Qasali Pridemage
1 Gaddock Teeg
3 Mental Misstep
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Batterskull
1 Sword of Fire/Ice
1 Umezewa's Jitte
1 Sensei's Divining Top
Sideboard:
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Thrun, the Shotgun
2 Path to Exile
2 Ethersworn Cannonist
3 Spell Pierce
2 Choke
1 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Relic of Progenitals
1 Bojuka Bog
I'd just like some advice from people who have been playing this deck for longer than I have.
First of all, I feel like I want more firepower in the maindeck, can/should I fit Thrun into the starting 60? How does everyone feel about mindbreak trap in the board? Is cannonist better? Also, I originally started the list with a scryb ranger, but hated it. Anyone else dislike her?
Also, I know the top should be a sylvan library, but I'm too lazy to buy one
Here's what I built on MODO. I've only had it build for a couple days, but I've managed to grind with it in the practice room and run it through a few 2-mans and the list is just a monster.
4 Wasteland
3 Savannah
4 Windswept Heath
3 Horizon Canopy
2 Plains
2 Forest
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Tropical Island
1 Tundra
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Karakas
4 Noble Hierarch
1 Birds of Paradise
2 Tarmogoyf
3 Knight of the Reliquary
1 Sylvan Safekeeper
3 Mother of Runes
3 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Rhox War Monk
3 Qasali Pridemage
1 Gaddock Teeg
3 Mental Misstep
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Batterskull
1 Sword of Fire/Ice
1 Umezewa's Jitte
1 Sensei's Divining Top
Sideboard:
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Thrun, the Shotgun
2 Path to Exile
2 Ethersworn Cannonist
3 Spell Pierce
2 Choke
1 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Relic of Progenitals
1 Bojuka Bog
I'd just like some advice from people who have been playing this deck for longer than I have.
First of all, I feel like I want more firepower in the maindeck, can/should I fit Thrun into the starting 60? How does everyone feel about mindbreak trap in the board? Is cannonist better? Also, I originally started the list with a scryb ranger, but hated it. Anyone else dislike her?
Also, I know the top should be a sylvan library, but I'm too lazy to buy one
honestabe, and everyone else who has tested Mental Misstep, how relevant has it been in your testing? Is the disruption worth cutting 2-3 threats/extra utility pieces? What matchups has it been good/bad in?
I'm 60/40 in favor of Mental Misstep really great in my opening hand really mediocre mid game.Quote:
Originally Posted by TossUsToLions
most common usage for me is misstepping swords to plowshare and a turn 1 acceleration
but in the end it depends on the match up
I've found MM to be nuts against aggro-control, but mediocre against control and aggro. (I hope that makes sense in a Legacy weird kind of way).
The best uses I've found are to counter removal on our dudes, slowing down acceleration, countering Brainstorm and Vial from aggro lists. I view it as a 1/2 turn tempo card.
Best thing in MM:
1. Countering First drops (Hierarch/GSZ mostly)
2. Countering Removal
3. Countering important cards in Combo (Grindstone, High Tide, Duress/Thoughtseize, Dark Ritual)
4. Countering opponents MM
Those 3 things.
I've been digging misstep. Honestly, I think it's too good to not play, even though it's 3 less threats you have. Plus, when you have a top/sylvan library, and 3 horizon canopies, you have enough card selection to make the hurt less when it's a dead card.
It's also nuts against Dredge, which is all over the place on modo
Speaking as a combo player, you could go a few ways...Quote:
Originally Posted by honestabe
In a deck like this Canonist is going to be expected; in your build this can be very nasty if it buys you enough time to land a Sylvan Safekeeper as well - same thing with Teeg already though. Canonist also interferes with your regular game plan the least.
Mindbreak Trap has the disadvantage of being easily dicked by Chant/Discard which will still likely be in the combo deck postboard (although probably in smaller numbers). The advantage to Mindbreak Trap is that the majority of combo players play as if the opponent does not run it until you actually see it cast. The good ones will still play around it if they have the opportunity to do so.
Another option is Orim's Chant; it doesn't see much play but when cast at the right time is a very nasty surprise.
I think I'd personally go with Canonist just because it doesn't interfere with the deck's plan all that much, and it takes advantage of Safekeeper. 2 Canonist in board seems more reasonable than 2 Trap or Chant as well, and as you shouldn't be expecting to win postboard either, 2 Canonist seems like the best option for taking the least sideboard space while still giving you a better chance to win if the opponent stumbles.
Canonist also helps marginally against Burn/RDW decks, by taking out alot of their speed advantage. This gives you time to enable equipment, attack for a lot, and generally buys time. That's the important part.
Hey I'm considering building this deck. I like the combat tricks with nearly every creature alot.
I'm curious what are bad matchups for maverick? Because at my local tournament i usually know people like to play.
Naturally the weakest match up for this deck like any other non Force of Will deck is Combo that's why you dedicate some sideboard cards for it.
Finished 5th in a ~50 person tourney yesterday. I'd be interested to know what you guys think about the deck.
Deck
4 Noble Hierarch
3 Knight of the Reliquary
3 Mother of Runes
3 Aven Mindcensor
2 Qasali Pridemage
3 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Terravore
1 Scryb Ranger
1 Progenitus
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Natural Order
2 Sylvan Library
1 Batterskull
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
4 Savannah
4 Wasteland
4 Windswept Heath
1 Misty Rainforest
2 Horizon Canopy
1 Maze of Ith
1 Karakas
1 Dryad Arbor
2 Forest
2 Plains
Sideboard:
3 Krosan Grip
2 Null Rod
2 Summoning Trap
1 Choke
1 Bojuka Bog
2 Path to Exile
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Sword of War and Peace
1 Terastodon
(Sideboard was a bit scattered, would have included more Chokes if I had them)
Tourney Report:
Match 1: Bant Natural Order
G1: 1st turn GSZ is spell pierced, I manage to get out a Hierarch and a Knight, but the Knight is STP’ed and during my next draw step my own STP is tucked. He basically outpaces me this game and kills me with his Vendillion Clique and Dryad Arbors
Sideboard: -4 Natural Order -1 Progenitus -1 Scryb Ranger +2 Summoning Trap +1 Choke +1 Gaddock Teeg +2 Path to Exile
G2: 1st Turn my Hierarch is misstep’ed and my summoning trap is daze’d. I resolve a 2nd turn Aven Mindcensor, but when I attempt to play a 2nd the next turn it is forced, and the 1st one is STP’ed the next turn. By this time he’s run out of steam and I’m able to get out a Knight and a Pridemage and take the game.
G3: I again play a 2nd turn Aven Mindcensor, but it’s STP'ed EOT. The early game involves a lot of countering and exiling of creatures but eventually I end up with a Knight and Thrun on the board. He plays a Rhox War Monk with exalted 2 but I tutor a maze to keep him from dealing any damage. I STP his War Monk and he’s able to hold me off for a few turns by chump blocking but then I Natural Order and it’s over.
1-0-0 (2-1-0)
Match 2: UR Sneaky Show
G1: Opponent mulls to 5. I land a 1st turn Hierarch and 2nd turn Pridemage. He show and tells and drops Progenitus. I drop Sword of Fire and Ice. Swing for 6+2 and play Jitte. He knocks me down to 7. I fetch a land (oops), equip Jitte, and swing for another 8, then STP my own pridemage. I win the numbers game and next turn he’s dead.
Sideboard: -3 Swords to Plowshares +2 Summoning Trap +1 Choke
G2: Opponent gets out a blood moon turn 2 but luckily I have a basic plains and I’m able to put some beats on him with a Mother of Runes and Aven Mindcensor. I drop a Batterskull and he scoops a couple turns later.
2-0-0 (4-1-0)
Match 3: Zoo
G1: Turn 3 Natural Order = GG
Sideboard: -1 Sword of Fire and Ice -1 Scryb Ranger -1 Green Sun Zenith +1 Sword of War and Peace +2 Path to Exile
G2: He gets out some early Wild Nacatls but I’m able to stall the ground with Mother of Runes until I resolve a Nautral Order.
3-0-0 (6-1-0)
Match 4: BUG Landstill
G1: I mull to 5 and keep a pretty mediocre hand with my only lands being maze of ith and wasteland. I draw into 0 lands and he draw-go’s me to death with Jace.
Sideboard: -4 Natural Order -1 Progenitus +2 Summoning Trap +1 Choke +1 Gaddock Teeg +1 Thrun, the Last Troll
G2: Mother of Runes is misstepped and Summoning Trap is forced. 2nd turn Sylvan library resolves, and I stick a Knight and a Pridemage that aren’t answered.
G3: I cast Hierarch, he drops a Mishra’s factor and standstill. We take turns smashing each other and destroying each other’s lands and I eventually have to blow the standstill. I play a Mother of Runes and pass the turn. He drops Pernicious Deed. I play Choke and it resolves. He blows the deed and I play a Knight that brings him to 0 a few turns later.
4-0-0 (8-2-0)
Match 5: RUG Natural Order
G1: My turn 1 GSZ is countered, but my 2nd turn Stoneforge Mystic resolves and I grab a Batterskull. He bolts my Stoneforge Mystic and I follow up with an Aven Mindcensor. He casts a Vendillion Clique during my next draw step targeting himself and I drop a Mother of Runes. He plays a Grim Lavamancer. I play a Jitte (tech), equip Aven Mindcensor, and fling him through with the help of Mother of Runes, in turn killing the Grim Lavamancer and Vendillion Clique. He can’t recover.
Sideboard: -4 Natural Order -1 Progenitus -1 Scryb Ranger +2 Summoning Trap +1 Choke +1 Gaddock Teeg +2 Path to Exile
G2: 1st turn he missteps my Mother of Runes and dazes my summoning trap. I GSZ for a Hierarch, my knight gets countered next turn, and I summoning trap again into a Stoneforge Mystic which grabs a Sword of Fire and Ice. He scoops a couple turns later.
5-0-0 (10-2-0)
Match 6: Mono-U Fish
Draw
5-0-1 (10-2-1)
Top 8: UW Stoneforge Mystic Control
G1: I keep a mana heavy land because I know he will be running answers to my mana ramp and do not want to be mana screwed. I draw into only more land and my GSZ is countered leaving me with only equipment and no creatures to equip. He ends up landing both a Jace and a Crucible of Worlds and I scoop.
Sideboard: -4 Natural Order -1 Progenitus -1 Scryb Ranger -1 Terravore -1 Mother of Runes +2 Summoning Trap +1 Choke +1 Gaddock Teeg +3 Krosan Grip +1 Thrun, the Last Troll
G2: I mull to 6. I drop a land and say go. He first turn suspends an Ancestral Visions. I drop a 2nd turn Stoneforge Mystic which resolves and I search for a batterskull. He drops a meddling mage naming GSZ. I draw and pass the turn. He plays his own Stoneforge Mystic searching for a Manriki-Gusari. I play a land and pass the turn, holding a Krosan Grip. He plays the Gusari, equips and swings. I Krosan Grip it. I draw and say go. He plays another Stoneforge Mystic, grabbing Batterskull and passes the turn. EOT I drop my Batterskull. I draw and swing. He drops his Batterskull and declares blockers. I attempt to STP his Batterskull token, but he has Mental Misstep. They trade and now I’m left with an unequipped Batterskull and a Stoneforge Mystic. The next turn he plays a Jace and I can't recover.
I noticed not many of the lists here run Natural Order but it's usually an auto win vs the aggro mirror and serves as a nice defense against other Natural Order decks. I'm likely bringing this deck to SCG: Baltimore but I haven't decided on a final decklist. If I cut the NO package I'll probably add +1 KOTR +1 Mother of Runes but I'm not sure what to run in the last 3 slots. The MM idea seems interesting.