[Deck] Nic Fit (GBx Explorer Zenith Control)

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Originally Posted by dakkonblackblade08

Guys have you checked Caleb Durward's build in ChannelFireball? He tweaked Tao's decklist with a splash of blue (Gifts Ungiven) and did not rely on GSZ this time. Its quite good but I'm a bit lost in translation in terms of playing that (Caleb's) deck. I know its a control deck but I'm a bit clueless regarding which card should you fetch via Gifts against these decks --> NO Rug, Folks, Bant and Maverick

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Flip explained the struggle to find the right build quite well and Caleb mentions it in the article too. Aside from not being sure if Gifts belongs in the deck or not: The general Gifts plan is to set up an engine of Recurring Nightmare with Witness, Finks and Explorer to ramp Mana and/or generate card advantage. Then win with Titan on Deed/Witness or with the Yosei / Rec Nightmare lock. If you already have Mana just tutor whatever you need plus Witness/Regrowth and a free wish. Also Gifts for Therapy is synergetic because you get at least one half of it anyway.
However opponents often do something so you usually have to cast the first Gifts to survive. So if that happens:

Vs. RUG:
make sure to not die against Progenitus. Their beatdown is no big problem with Calebs list. Deeds and Rector and Swords should kill his threats. His solution to Prog is Innocent Blood but I am very sure his list should have Phantasmal Image in that spot because it doesn't get rendered useless by Clique / Fetchland for Arbor. Image has sick synergy with Titan and copying Finks or Witness or their KotR is cool too. If you are about to die to quick beatdown of course go for whatever suits the situation and your Mana best of PtE, Swords, Regrowth, Deed, Finks, Witness.

Vs. Folks:
If you dont die next turn go for Witness, Regrowth, Deed and something else that seems useful (Therpay, Swords) and force the sweeper through. If you die next turn and don't have time for Deed go for something like Swords, Path, O Ring and Regrowth.

Bant:
So many different lists. Try to analyze the game state and figure out what you need. Do they kill you? Grab Removal. Do they go for a attrition war? Grab Witness, Regrowth, Nightmare and Sun Titan.

Maverick:
If they Mindcensor in reponse you have no hard choice. If they don't, set it up that you have 5-6 Mana and Deed them for two or three. If Elspeth or Parallax Wave meddles with your plans, hope you find a solution.

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Originally Posted by f|i[p]

One thing Ive noticed is that, whenever I zenith, I always look for a really good Green finisher, that can't be easily killed. As for now I can't seem to find any. Sun titan is white, grave titan is black.

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What about dungrove elder. Hard to kill, cheap cost and it should be rather big with all the mana ramp this deck does. Also comes back with the help of Sun Titan.

There's also gigapede, thrun, the last troll and grave shell scarab

Hi Tao,

Love the deck! Absolutely a ton of fun. Could you please post your most recent pod list?

Deck got featured again on CFB. Caleb D = Fanboy1 fanboy.

I just read this in another thread and thought it was pretty cool:

Birthing Pod + Tombstalker = Iona :)

Im playing with:

1x Chord of Calling (to take Grave Titan)
and
1x Profane Command

And I like both a lot, what do you think?

Cya

I have gotten a chance to playtest with the new Liliana, and I think that she is powerful enough for this deck. This would allow the deck to be brought closer to :g::b: without all the side thrills.

I was playing with the GB list Caleb Durward featured on MWS a bit today. I really like the way it plays. Wall of Blossoms seems like it is only there as a form of card advantage. I haven't had a situation where it was relevant as a body yet. Cutting it to 2 in favor of either more discard or more removal might be better. Maelstrom Pulse has been really strong in the few games I've played with it. I think Garruk Relentless might also warrant a spot in the main as well. It can kill a Vereten Explorer or some other 1 power dork your opponent has (Dryad Arbor, Grim Lavamancer, Spellstutter Sprite, ect) in order to flip it and the flip side overrun ability has a lot of synergy with the deck. It can also allow you to power through board stalls with zombie or squirrel tokens via Titan or Hermit.

Thank you Tao aka Fanboy1 for the tips..I guess I'll stick with the Fanboy1 built..it is more straightforward and it's like Control-Rock which is cool :-D..BTW here's Kepa Arrieta's deck..with white splash

http://www.mtgdecks.net/decks/view/19505

@ALL: your thoughts?

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Originally Posted by jedi_gof

Hi Tao,

Love the deck! Absolutely a ton of fun. Could you please post your most recent pod list?

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I agree Tao! Updates! We are looking forward to its improvement :-D

Heh, awesome. I am on CFB again. With two decks. And I am a Caleb fan too :) I really like how he approaches decks.

Updates:
I love the GB version but it is weak against 2 important cards: Progenitus and Jace TMS.
Progenitus is a very big (no pun intended) problem because the RUG deck will be heavily played. They will usually have one of their 4 Orders and Discard isn't reliable because of their 4 Brainstorms to find a new Order and hide it on top of the library. Spike Weaver from GSZ can get the job done, especially with Nightmare help, but it is risky against Bolts and Mancers.
Jace is a problem when combined with other CA engines, especially Ancestral Vision. If they run SFM and Mishras or similar cards for more value, they become hard to outcontrol. Thrun does a very good against them but sometimes he is just not enough.
On the other hand straight GB has the best Zoo, Merfolk and Maverick matchups of these decks. Stable Mana is important and Hymn severely punishes decks that don't draw cards. Against Merfolk not playing blue is a big advantage too. Now there are four versions that I think of:

1: GB with a dedicated SB to solve these problems:
My fanboy1 ML decks tried to do that. 1 Thrun MD and 2 in SB plus addional Discard from the Sideboard for the control match and Edicts or Damnation for the Prog/Reanimator matchup.

2: Gbu(w) with Gifts Ungiven:
It kills Progenitus by tutoring for Phantasmal Image and is an awesome spell vs Jace control. It is synergetic in general because it enables Recurring Nightmare and acts as a tutor with Witness and Regrowth. The problem is that it requires an additional color that grants Islandwalk for Merfolk and it makes you run many 1-offs that dilute the deck. Gifts versions are usually much weaker against yard hate.

3: GBw Birthing Pod:
It fixes Progenitus via. Metamorph and is awesome vs. Jace control. Very synergetic and powerful too because every creature has EtB or LtB triggers and you get to tutor chosen solutions and threats uncounterable right on the battlefield. The problem is that it forces to play creatures of a certain CMC that and that you also start to run many diluting 1-offs.

4: GBu Natural Order:
Atm imo the way to go. It deals with Prog. by the legend rule. Most Jace TMS control lists can't beat it because their removal is targeted. And keeping counters in hand through Therapy/Witness/GSZ is tough. So from the problem solving aspect this is actually the best. You also only have to run one 1-off to make it work. The deck runs a lot of green guys that don't mind being sacced anyway so there is also some synergy. And it wins games that you just shouldn't win. One problem is that it requires Islands for Brainstorm because the games tend to quite long. So odds for drawing Progenitus would become too high and having to Therapy yourself is a good emergency option but not an acceptable part of your strategy. I don't really like Order in this type of deck but if the format calls for a hammer then give it the hammer.

Unfortunately, our car broke down on the way to atlanta, so we didn't make it to the 5k, but I would've played Toa's GB version. -3 Walls, -2 Garruk, -1 Wickerbough Elder, -2 Eternal Witness, +1 Kitchen Finks, +2 Top, +2 Bob, +1 Grave Titan, +1 Therapy, +1 Veteran.

Sb

4 Leyline
4 Helm of Obedience
2 Chains of Mephistophles
2 Perish
1 Wickerbough Elder
1 Stingerfling Spider (Emrakul, Tombstalker, maybe Iona.)
1 Maelstrom Pulse

Since we didn't get there, we had time to jam games, and the deck was performing super good against some of the best Legacy players I know, all with different archetypes. Sigh. >:(

It might've just been the games, but Bob, Grave Titan, and top were all hot. I might cut the last wall or a Hymn for a third bob, and maybe find room in the manabase for a second tower.

Edit: Also, someone mentioned the idea of using Spellskite to protect Spike Weaver, but there really isn't the room. Still, I liked the technology, and it's applicable to stuff like Sower.

Really like this deck. I love rock and I'm going to play it at a GPT this Saturday.
Questions:
What does this deck do to Progenitus (the version without NO)? Is Spike Feeder Enough?
Helm of Obidience? What's that card good against?
This might sound like a stupid question (probably does :p), but anyway, If I don't ask, I'll never know, so.... that's that :)

Helm is combo with Leyline. It decks the opponent since not a single card is going to hit the yard.

One of my mates is playing this deck and has very good results with it, and after redaing the entire thread, I've asked to my friend Pablo, who is the owner of TcDecks to create a new archetype: Nic Fit

I hope you enjoy this :D

Hey,

I thought I'd share my decklist with you, because it works really well for me at the moment.
I more or less sticked to one of the earliest versions made by Tao, and tweaked it a bit.

Creatures (15):
4x Veteran Explorer
2x Eternal Witness
1x Sun Titan
1x Protean Hulk
1x Spike Weaver
1x Thrun, the Last Troll
1x Kitchen Finks
1x Knight of the Reliquary
1x Qasali Pridemage
1x Scavenging Ooze
1x Wall of Blossoms

Spells(18):
4x Cabal Therapy
4x Green Sun's Zenith
4x Swords to Plowshares
3x Diabolic Intent
3x Duress

Artifacts and Enchantments (4):
3x Pernicious Deed
1x Recurring Nightmare

Planeswalkers (1):
1x Karn Liberated

Lands (22):
4x Verdant Catacombs
3x Windswept Heath
3x Swamp
3x Forest
2x Plains
2x Bayou
2x Phyrexian Tower
1x Savannah
1x Scrubland
1x Dryad Arbor

// Sideboard
1x Bojuka Bog
4x Maelstrom Pulse
4x Orim's Chant
1x Thrun, the Last Troll
3x Extirpate
2x Innocent Blood

Biggest change comparing to previous versions is the Protean Hulk. I felt like this deck needed a big creature easily tutored by Green Sun's Zenith. The advantage of Protean Hulk versus any other big green creature, is that you can sacrifice the Protean Hulk in response to removal (by using Phyrexian Tower, e.g.), getting an eternal witness (and return Hulk to your hand), sun titan or whatever needed at that point. When both players are being in topdeck mode (something I often come across with this deck), meant Green Sun's Zenith is a win.

Any thoughts?

Hey, I played the following list today (19 players, splitting the finals because we were both in a hurry to end the tournament...)

Creatures (14):
3x Veteran Explorer
3x Dark Confidant
2x Eternal Witness
2x Sun Titan
1x Thrun, the Last Troll
1x Knight of the Reliquary
1x Qasali Pridemage
1x Scavenging Ooze


Spells(17):
4x Cabal Therapy
4x Green Sun's Zenith
4x Swords to Plowshares
3x Thoughtseize
2x Maelstrom Pulse

Non creature permanents(7):
3x Pernicious Deed
2x Sensei's Divining Top
1x Recurring Nightmare
1x Karn Liberated

Lands (21):
4x Verdant Catacombs
3x Windswept Heath
2x Swamp
3x Forest
2x Plains
2x Bayou
1x Phyrexian Tower
2x Savannah
1x Scrubland
1x Dryad Arbor

// Sideboard
2x Yixlid Jailer
2x Extirpate
3x Choke
1x Loaming Shaman
2x Diabolic Edict
1x Damnation
1x Sadistic Sacrament

R1 I play vs Painters and loose 1-2 due to a topdeck.
R2 I play vs Merfolk and win 2-0
R3 I play vs Sneak Show and win 2-0
R4 I play vs NoBant and win 2-0
R5 I play vs Uwr Stoneforge Landstill and he concedes, we play it and it's 1-1

Top4.

Semi vs Maverick I win 2-1
Finals vs Merfolk we split- I win 4 Foil promo JSS City of Brass signed in gold by Tedin...cool set indeed.

I feel this deck is really good, but you actually need to stick a Confidant or a Top in the early game. Confidant is better because there's always the Ooze to gain some life; you need to see at least one of them (either Top or Bob) because when you end the turn1-5 discard, disruption and mana ramp, you'll find yourself in topdeck mode on an empty board and you need to cast a bomb. I saw that sometimes I controlled the game but lacking a finisher, I gave opponent time to rebuild his board position. This always ended in long and annoying games.
Karn is cool and when hits the table is pretty damn good, but e costs freaking seven mana, at this point I'd rather try a couple Steel Hellkite. They need to attack but are far more effective, they wipe the board and come down a turn earlier at least.

Edit: I just thought about Elspeth...she's a pretty good win con at low cc. She wins the planeswalker war when your Explorer is giving your opponent mana for a fast Jace (always try to avoid this but sometimes happens)...she puts your opp. on a clock even with a Confidant. Worth testing imho.

Had a 48 man trial today. Nic Fit went after Swiss 1st (me 5-0-1, UGB with Order), 2nd (friend 5-1, with Birthing Pod GBw, we built our decks together yesterday) and 3rd (4-1-1 nice guy we know, with pure GB). So no help on which version is best. Unfortunately none of us got the byes. My friend and me both lost in Quarters which was quite disappointing and the other guy lost in Semis so no Byes unfortunately.

I guess to add some more data to the thread that doesn't solve what version is the best... I 3-0d, 1st place, a mini local legacy tournament with GBw reccuring/pod version this morning. The version with 2 rectors, moat, stoneforge, and sliver.

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Originally Posted by Tao

Had a 48 man trial today. Nic Fit went after Swiss 1st (me 5-0-1, UGB with Order), 2nd (friend 5-1, with Birthing Pod GBw, we built our decks together yesterday) and 3rd (4-1-1 nice guy we know, with pure GB). So no help on which version is best. Unfortunately none of us got the byes. My friend and me both lost in Quarters which was quite disappointing and the other guy lost in Semis so no Byes unfortunately.

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Additionally you can say 3/48 player are Nic Fit and all are top8:)
(after swiss 1.,2. and 3. place:)


// Lands
1 [FUT] Dryad Arbor
4 [ZEN] Verdant Catacombs
3 [ON] Windswept Heath
1 [R] Scrubland
4 [CS] Snow-Covered Swamp
3 [CS] Snow-Covered Forest
2 [R] Bayou
1 [CS] Snow-Covered Plains
1 [R] Savannah
2 [US] Phyrexian Tower
1 [R] Taiga

// Creatures
1 [SHM] Kitchen Finks
1 [MBS] Thrun, the Last Troll
3 [WL] Veteran Explorer
2 [FD] Eternal Witness
3 [SH] Wall of Blossoms
1 [LRW] Shriekmaw
1 [DDE] Bone Shredder
1 [MOR] Reveillark
1 [NPH] Phyrexian Metamorph
1 [NPH] Entomber Exarch
1 [UL] Deranged Hermit
1 [ARB] Qasali Pridemage
1 [UD] Academy Rector

// Spells
4 [MBS] Green Sun's Zenith
3 [NPH] Birthing Pod
4 [JU] Cabal Therapy
1 [EX] Recurring Nightmare
2 [ARB] Maelstrom Pulse
3 [FE] Hymn to Tourach (1)
2 [AP] Pernicious Deed

// Sideboard
SB: 1 [SHM] Kitchen Finks
SB: 1 [MBS] Thrun, the Last Troll
SB: 1 [ARB] Maelstrom Pulse
SB: 1 [AP] Pernicious Deed
SB: 1 [CMD] Scavenging Ooze
SB: 3 [PLC] Extirpate
SB: 1 [LRW] Gaddock Teeg
SB: 1 [LE] Glowrider
SB: 1 [WL] Peacekeeper
SB: 1 [ALA] Ethersworn Canonist
SB: 2 [M12] Sundial of the Infinite
SB: 1 [M11] Duress

There is my list and i would play it again.

I've gone 5-2 in matches and 11-5 in games (2 games i was manascrew, 1 game my UW opponent topdecks stoneforge, jace and elsepth after some therapies and 1 game vs NO RUG because he had turn 4 NO + removal and fow for my birthingchain and 1 game i had a bad draw)

Congratz to all you guys! Can't wait to see some more decklist. I think that it's time for this archetype to be moved to established, but maybe the many directions this deck can take slow this down.

Tao and the others, well done, any chances to take a look at your list, or maybe just the mana base.

I'm planning to run it next Sunday at a GPT and tried to brainstorm an UBG list already. I'll post mine later one probably, loving the inclusion of NO Prog from testing in nearly all green based decks...

double, please delete.

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Originally Posted by CalebD

Unfortunately, our car broke down on the way to atlanta, so we didn't make it to the 5k, but I would've played Toa's GB version. -3 Walls, -2 Garruk, -1 Wickerbough Elder, -2 Eternal Witness, +1 Kitchen Finks, +2 Top, +2 Bob, +1 Grave Titan, +1 Therapy, +1 Veteran.

Sb

4 Leyline
4 Helm of Obedience
2 Chains of Mephistophles
2 Perish
1 Wickerbough Elder
1 Stingerfling Spider (Emrakul, Tombstalker, maybe Iona.)
1 Maelstrom Pulse

Since we didn't get there, we had time to jam games, and the deck was performing super good against some of the best Legacy players I know, all with different archetypes. Sigh. >:(

It might've just been the games, but Bob, Grave Titan, and top were all hot. I might cut the last wall or a Hymn for a third bob, and maybe find room in the manabase for a second tower.

Edit: Also, someone mentioned the idea of using Spellskite to protect Spike Weaver, but there really isn't the room. Still, I liked the technology, and it's applicable to stuff like Sower.

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I like the addition of bob and top, but I don't really understand in what MU you want to board in the Leyline Helm combo, maybe you could tell us about those sideboard choices?

Hola, Sourcers.

Tao: Could I bother you with all 3 decklists? We're a crew brewing for amsterdam and some players are brewing this list, and are interested in these.

Thanks in advance!

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Originally Posted by 1maarten1

I like the addition of bob and top, but I don't really understand in what MU you want to board in the Leyline Helm combo, maybe you could tell us about those sideboard choices?

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Post board they needle Pernicious Deed, and then you kill them. Combo is pretty good at taking control decks by surprise. Not sure if it's worth all those slots, but so far I like it.

You also have a faster path to victory against the combo decks that involves some incidental disruption. Not bad.

Been playing a miser's Skeletal Scrying lately. Card has been pretty insane.

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Originally Posted by Rabrab

Additionally you can say 3/48 player are Nic Fit and all are top8:)
(after swiss 1.,2. and 3. place:)


// Lands
1 [FUT] Dryad Arbor
4 [ZEN] Verdant Catacombs
3 [ON] Windswept Heath
1 [R] Scrubland
4 [CS] Snow-Covered Swamp
3 [CS] Snow-Covered Forest
2 [R] Bayou
1 [CS] Snow-Covered Plains
1 [R] Savannah
2 [US] Phyrexian Tower
1 [R] Taiga

// Creatures
1 [SHM] Kitchen Finks
1 [MBS] Thrun, the Last Troll
3 [WL] Veteran Explorer
2 [FD] Eternal Witness
3 [SH] Wall of Blossoms
1 [LRW] Shriekmaw
1 [DDE] Bone Shredder
1 [MOR] Reveillark
1 [NPH] Phyrexian Metamorph
1 [NPH] Entomber Exarch
1 [UL] Deranged Hermit
1 [ARB] Qasali Pridemage
1 [UD] Academy Rector

// Spells
4 [MBS] Green Sun's Zenith
3 [NPH] Birthing Pod
4 [JU] Cabal Therapy
1 [EX] Recurring Nightmare
2 [ARB] Maelstrom Pulse
3 [FE] Hymn to Tourach (1)
2 [AP] Pernicious Deed

// Sideboard
SB: 1 [SHM] Kitchen Finks
SB: 1 [MBS] Thrun, the Last Troll
SB: 1 [ARB] Maelstrom Pulse
SB: 1 [AP] Pernicious Deed
SB: 1 [CMD] Scavenging Ooze
SB: 3 [PLC] Extirpate
SB: 1 [LRW] Gaddock Teeg
SB: 1 [LE] Glowrider
SB: 1 [WL] Peacekeeper
SB: 1 [ALA] Ethersworn Canonist
SB: 2 [M12] Sundial of the Infinite
SB: 1 [M11] Duress

There is my list and i would play it again.

I've gone 5-2 in matches and 11-5 in games (2 games i was manascrew, 1 game my UW opponent topdecks stoneforge, jace and elsepth after some therapies and 1 game vs NO RUG because he had turn 4 NO + removal and fow for my birthingchain and 1 game i had a bad draw)

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I'm not a huge fan of running Reveillark with no 6 to pod into. Grave Titan seems like the perfect card for inclusion in this list.

I felt it was kind of moot to post thoughts before the bannings. So MM got the axe. I don't like the banning but it isn't terrible either and was quite obvious. I really hoped Brainstorm would have gotten banned too though, and with Ponder/Preordain getting banned in modern and Brainstorm/Ponder already banned in Vintage I can't imagine WotC not knowing how ridiculous the card is. A Brainstorm ban would have helped this deck tremendously by weakening blue Combo, NO decks and Jace control. The MM ban is double-edged for Nic Fit. It directly helps because it takes away a card we don't play that is solid against us. Indirectly we have to wait for the format impact. Combo will get even stronger which is bad but with losing a free counter spell Control decks probably can't pack such an ridiculous amount of card draw anymore. The "4 Brainstorm, 4 Vision, 4 Jace" package is a joke to be honest so they will hopefully have to reduce that. No Brainstorm would have also made Therapies insane but the MM ban at least improves Therapies a bit and makes Explorers much safer.

For the Birthing Pod version I would trust rabrab. He is a very good player (made German National Top 8 twice in a row now and plays in German team this year at Worlds). I argued for Grave Titan too but he is of the opinion that Hermit is enough as a win condition because of the synergy between Titan and Metamorph/Nightmare and that a Titan is just not needed and could make the draws clunkier. He sees Pod as a strict card advantage / solution engine and that seems like the right thing to do.

The UGB Order is mostly a Metagame deck that relies on Vision decks not being able to handle Progenitus and not being able to counter NO because of Therapies. I don't have the exact version of the Trial anymore because I had to change cards due to last second card hunting but atm and with Misstep banned I would play it like below. An alternative approach that I will test is to keep Jace but use Grave Titans as a finisher and use Damnations instead of Maws in the Side to deal with Progenitus.

// Lands
1 [FUT] Dryad Arbor
2 [ZEN] Island
2 [B] Tropical Island
1 [B] Underground Sea
2 [B] Bayou
3 [B] Forest
2 [B] Swamp
4 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest
4 [ZEN] Verdant Catacombs
1 [US] Phyrexian Tower

// Creatures
4 [WL] Veteran Explorer
2 [SH] Wall of Blossoms
3 [FD] Eternal Witness
1 [CFX] Progenitus
1 [MBS] Thrun, the Last Troll

// Spells
3 [PT] Natural Order
4 [IA] Brainstorm
4 [JU] Cabal Therapy
4 [WWK] Jace, the Mind Sculptor
3 [AP] Pernicious Deed
3 [ARB] Maelstrom Pulse
4 [MBS] Green Sun's Zenith
2 [LRW] Thoughtseize

// Sideboard
SB: 1 [EVE] Wickerbough Elder
SB: 2 [MBS] Thrun, the Last Troll
SB: 2 [LRW] Thoughtseize
SB: 1 [SHM] Kitchen Finks
SB: 2 [PLC] Extirpate
SB: 3 [LRW] Shriekmaw
SB: 1 [CMD] Scavenging Ooze
SB: 3 [US] Duress

Huge thanks for the post.

Any love for the new 1B + sac creature -> draw 2?

That's just Skulltap as an instant, I don't think that's what you really want.

@Tao: Something else that's got to be considered is storm combo, which has been pretty sub-par since the printing of MMS and might now make a resurgence. Past in Flames also looks pretty sweet.
You might need something in the MD against those decks.

Maybe more Hymns or 3sphere out of the board?

Ive been hoping for brainstorm to be banned for the longest time... there is so much it can do just for a one mana instant.. even make bad hands playable...but forget about it.

Mental misstep made the meta slower . Now that its gone.. out comes fast decks again....

If we do develop this further I guess the biggest concern we have is combo decks returning... Fast aggro can be dealt with easily...

Thoughts on the deck:

Before mental misstep was banned one of the main problems I was having is the significance of 2cc drops...I think having a good 2cc drop will help the curve fit in much better as a whole deck for the bgw version.

I tried adding blue in and just added brainstorms and it was really helpful in all senses.. but I never wanted to leave the deck without spot removal hence I tried a bguw version, somewhere like Calebs list.. but with brainstorms instead of Gifts as well as Nat order.... its working pretty well but needs more testing..

I liked birthing pod when I played against it, but one thing is annoying is that you have to build your creatures around it...Not that its bad, but you wont be able to get 3cc creatures when you sac a 5cc creature.. which really sucks...It can only search for creatures with the same cc and or +1cc... So I won't even bother to build the deck around birthing pods..

I also tested protean hulk as suggested by jobdevries ,and it was really good so far.. Yes sometimes I get stuck with a zenith not knowing what to zenith for as a good finisher with a lot of mana... Hulk is ok since you can always sac him in response to removal vial Tower.... netting you more creatures like witness or other stuff...

I have also looked around going combo with Hulk as an alternate win con istead of Nat order...but I guess thats too much and might end up with the deck trying to do so many things...

So what interests me now is the simple bgw or the bgwu builds..I can never deny the power of sun titan in this deck or even natural order...

I will probably need to have a good sideboard plan vs combo... which actually the only concern I have regarding the deck.

Awesome, flip. Mind showing your current decklist with hulk?
I'm still having some problems vs cawblade, batterskull is relatively resistent to pernicious deed and qasali pridemage, since they just retrieve it to hand. Any hints on how to deal with it?

@jobdevries

Ill post a deck list when I find the right list thats quite consistent.. Im still having trouble with consistency.. as the mana curve keeps on becoming an issue from time to time...

Also when people don't actually kill explorer... it becomes a problem....flying creatures are quite annoying for this deck so far... but I will still try and hopefully figure out the right combination of stuff.. and I think Tao posted a list somewhere in here... bgu... and since he has the most experience with the deck its best to consult him...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by f|i[p]

Also when people don't actually kill explorer... it becomes a problem....flying creatures are quite annoying for this deck so far... but I will still try and hopefully figure out the right combination of stuff.. and I think Tao posted a list somewhere in here... bgu... and since he has the most experience with the deck its best to consult him...

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Play some Innocent Blood in maindeck. I heard people are playing green men again, so another turn 1 answer to Lackey is nothing but good.

Alright, I'll be looking forward to it. It's fun to see the huge differences between the decks posted here, so.
I mostly don't really have issues with getting rid of veteran. I play phyrexian towers, cabal therapies, diabolic intents, etc. and they work for me.

@firemind, innocent blood MB.. I'll try that!

Also I added a Garruk, Primal hunter, and he feels right in this deck. His ultimate is just.. appropriate in this deck.

I actually took out a land for Garruk (playing 21 lands now), since I never had problems with getting mana (veteran explorer).

Thanks for your sharings!

Two things!

1. Thoughts on post-misstep, go crazy with Innocent Bloods?

2. Anyone got a very standard GB-list I can use for reference?

I think that target removal is far more appropiate for the deck than using inocent blood. At first time it feels that is the card that must be there but then you realize that there are times that you don't have anything to sacrifice for and continue making pressure.

So what do you guys do against Hivemind? ;) Lost to it yesterday, without being able to do anything. Will it be a contender post rotation?