Steel Stompy 2.0 / Ravager Shops

Another 5-0 with Steel Stompy

Here's my current list:
https://i.imgur.com/ROJI5yT.png

Faced:
D&T
Reanimator
TurboDepths
Reanimator
Painter

I loved the Primer by Sisyphos and wholeheartedly agree with Quadich's feedback. Except for the Crucible of Worlds part, since I have not tested. That said, I wouldn't agree that the best way to stabilize vs. lands is by dropping Crucible, since they can drop multiple lands per turn with Exploration. I think Thorn is a much better answer for slowing them down - and Thorn can constrict your Crucible even more.

I tested Karn and... I'm convinced that's not what I want for my 4-drop. I usually either couldn't cast because I had landed a Thorn earlier, or I would have other things to cast that were actually better because they would help me win the game and Karn wouldn't.

I think Karn needs to go on a shell that doesn't have Thorns, so perhaps it may be a spin-off archetype, but I'm convinced not this one.


Started playing this deck on and off ever since Amadeus made it popular and only in the most recent weeks have I learned how to play it and performed better with it. One of the most valuable lessons so far is to strategize when to play Steel Overseer. I used to play it on Turn 1 almost as an auto play, and now I know that's probably the wrong pay on a vacuum. One wants to protect that card as much as possible and most of the times the creature played on turn 1 is either something I'm willing to lose to removal, or a Vault Skirge. I also noticed that opponents tend not to kill Skirge on the spot, which seems intuitive, but I think that's the crux of their eventual loss.

I will keep playing this deck as long as it keeps me winning :)

I’m pretty new to trying out this archetype and was curious about some of the differences I’ve seen in configurations.

The flex land slots seem split between people using Cavern of Souls, Inventor’s Fair, and additional man lands. My initial thinking is manlands strike me as having broader strengths across matches. Their floor is less impacted by what’s in play/hand and I feel like their ceiling can also be quite high depending on game state.

There was some talk of Foundry Inspector in Vault Skirge’s place at some point. Did that configuration put up results anywhere?

I’ve been a bit surprised to see lists with less than 4 Thorn of Amethyst and less than 3 Lodestone Golem, sol land powering out disruption seems like where this deck wants to be starting games.

Anyone know another discussion location for Steel Stompy / Ravager Shops that’s more active than here? Just trying to gather up more perspectives on this deck.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

With a bit of poking, you can get everyone talking in the Stax part of the Lands Discord. It's basically turned into a Prison Discord.

https://discord.gg/rxb7rUr

Was testing a different Blinkmoth Nexus in lieu of Mishra's Factory and accidentally 5-0'd another league. Here's the list:

https://i.imgur.com/K2HXxaM.png

Being that the current online metagame is light Miracles and heavy in creature based decks, Blinkmoth seemed (and was) a better choice. Many were the times in which my opponent had creatures on board and we were both stalled except for the Nexuses, which cumulatively dealt the winning damage.

In most games, I use Factories to mainly produce mana, and not as a creature, neither attacking or defending. This is why I thought it might be worthwhile switching to Nexus.

You'll also note that I have dropped all the equipment from the deck: this comes from the realization that many times I'd have an equipment in hand, but my mana was more efficiently used either casting other spells, or pumping ballistas/hangarbacks. Or I would have equipment, but a small flow of creatures which were trading with opponent's removal.

Faced:

Elves
Death and Taxes
ANT
TES
Eldrazi

http://puu.sh/Ak9rY/82e38d7357.JPG

Time to rename the thread? /s

BTW, there's now an Affinity/Robots Discord at https://discord.gg/yr62bbe, with a Legacy section we can post in.

I get the appeal of running crucible for infinite tutors, but personally I think the deck has so much redundancy already you can shed it for some other pieces. Maybe a few Jitte's?

Traxos, Scourge of Kroog seems like it could be very strong in this list. It has trample, and a 7/7 on turn 1/2 (4 mana is very easily achievable) with vigilance (given the number of artifacts the deck runs) that is immune to most of the removal that sees play seems like a great alternate route to victory/way to stabilize or recover if the opponent manages to shut down your initial plan of attack.

My buddy Johan made top 3-4 at GP Birmingham with the deck, definitely piqued my interest in the deck more :smile:

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Originally Posted by Fjaulnir

My buddy Johan made top 3-4 at GP Birmingham with the deck, definitely piqued my interest in the deck more :smile:

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Same here. It looks fun as hell, I was just waiting to see if it could put up numbers. But the proof is there!

Hi guys! I usually post and play 12 post metalworker mud, but I have been lurking and thinking about playing this deck for a little while, especially if spheres start locking me out. so I was wondering about two things about the deck: 1, how bad does the new sphere wreck this deck, if at all? 2, how set in stone is the lands package for the deck? I feel like some extra drawn cards could seriously benefit the deck if it stalled. The city's blessing land seems like it would fit well. Also i feel like the deck could die fairly quickly to delvers. Have any of you all tested with multiple blinkmoths?

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Originally Posted by malfie13

Hi guys! I usually post and play 12 post metalworker mud, but I have been lurking and thinking about playing this deck for a little while, especially if spheres start locking me out. so I was wondering about two things about the deck: 1, how bad does the new sphere wreck this deck, if at all? 2, how set in stone is the lands package for the deck? I feel like some extra drawn cards could seriously benefit the deck if it stalled. The city's blessing land seems like it would fit well. Also i feel like the deck could die fairly quickly to delvers. Have any of you all tested with multiple blinkmoths?

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Damping Sphere? I can't imagine anyone really boarding that in against you and if they did, they probably just played a Time Walk against themselves, but maybe they slowed you down a turn. I wouldn't worry about it. It seems like most of the time it would barely effect you.

Not sure which land you are talking about, but I'd guess it's Arch of Orazca? Problem here (and mind you, I've only played the deck for about 2 months now) it's actually rather rare for you to have 10 permanents. And even more rare (I'd think) to have 10 permanents and 5 mana, plus that land. I mean, I'd say try it and see, but I have some doubts.

Last time I played, I did include a couple Blinkmoths and they did a bit of work in one game where the Flying was relevant. I'm not sure they are great, but they are definitely worth considering, because Overseer makes everything ridiculous, honestly.

On GP Birmingham, I think Johan could have won the whole thing, if he lets that Overseer actually block the Ringleader, then swings back and gains 4 off the Jitte, I think he wins that game. Easy to say from my armchair, but I was rooting for him and was glad to see him do well, even if that puts this deck on people's "radar."

I agree, as an outsider looking in that g3 was a bit misplayed. I thought if he goes all in on the etched champion he could at least threaten lethal, or if he had blocked more aggressively...

But then again I have zero experience with the deck. seems like Ballista is the best card in the deck in that matchup and he never seemed to get any :rolleyes:

Have people tried more than 2 inventor's fair? I'm putting the deck together and that card seems particularly useful. It's legendary and all, so maybe 3x?

I also think that damping sphere is garbage against us. I was playing 2 Fairs for a long time and was convinced that they will stay in the deck forever, but there are a number of lands that felt better. For example Blinkmoth, Ghost Quarter etc.

Has anyone tested a deck with for blinkmoth instead of the factories?

Btw after a lot of Testing i cut all the Lodestone Golems and was pretty impressed with "man of Steel" without the golems:smile:

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Originally Posted by Man of Steel

I also think that damping sphere is garbage against us. I was playing 2 Fairs for a long time and was convinced that they will stay in the deck forever, but there are a number of lands that felt better. For example Blinkmoth, Ghost Quarter etc.

Has anyone tested a deck with for blinkmoth instead of the factories?

Btw after a lot of Testing i cut all the Lodestone Golems and was pretty impressed with "man of Steel" without the golems:smile:

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I have replaced Factories with Blinkmoths and it feels like a more reliable thread. They especially shine in standoff games, where the 1 or 2 damage eventually wins the game. It has also won me games by blocking 20/20 flying indestructibles, allowing me time to find answers,etc. I am not disappointed and I'm leaving it as a 4-of for the foreseeable future.

I also agree that Fairs can be flex slots. I have been thinking about Darksteel Citadel for a while and seeing Johan have great success with them leads me to believe they're worth exploring.

I am also thinking about Welding Jar: sometimes, protecting the one key creature or artifact makes the difference between winning or losing. With Jar, I can also make my Opals active at a much faster pace.

Unfortunately the MTGO metagame has turned a bit sour: too many main deck Back to Basics. The card on itself is not too bad, but when you combine it with Terminus, it can be devastating. And Back to Basics can often mean game over... it feels worse than vs. Lands, because is like if they Wastelanded 2, 3 or 4 lands in one shot. If B2B prevails in the metagame, then I will have to add a color for a reliable enchantment removal strategy.

I'm curious to see your current test deck, without Golems and without Fairs.

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Originally Posted by Qernavak

I have replaced Factories with Blinkmoths and it feels like a more reliable thread. They especially shine in standoff games, where the 1 or 2 damage eventually wins the game. It has also won me games by blocking 20/20 flying indestructibles, allowing me time to find answers,etc. I am not disappointed and I'm leaving it as a 4-of for the foreseeable future.

I also agree that Fairs can be flex slots. I have been thinking about Darksteel Citadel for a while and seeing Johan have great success with them leads me to believe they're worth exploring.

I am also thinking about Welding Jar: sometimes, protecting the one key creature or artifact makes the difference between winning or losing. With Jar, I can also make my Opals active at a much faster pace.

Unfortunately the MTGO metagame has turned a bit sour: too many main deck Back to Basics. The card on itself is not too bad, but when you combine it with Terminus, it can be devastating. And Back to Basics can often mean game over... it feels worse than vs. Lands, because is like if they Wastelanded 2, 3 or 4 lands in one shot. If B2B prevails in the metagame, then I will have to add a color for a reliable enchantment removal strategy.

I'm curious to see your current test deck, without Golems and without Fairs.

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I also play 2 welding jar at the moment and it feels right. The 2 maindeck Jars have replaced the 2 Spellskites in the board. B2B is a problem. I try 4 mox opal in my current list to fight B2B and make the starts more broken. I also test 4 Karn in the main, which is also very good againsr B2B and terminius.

But back to the topic. Do you think of playing more than 4 creature lands or playing only Blinkmoth?

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Originally Posted by Man of Steel

I also play 2 welding jar at the moment and it feels right. The 2 maindeck Jars have replaced the 2 Spellskites in the board. B2B is a problem. I try 4 mox opal in my current list to fight B2B and make the starts more broken. I also test 4 Karn in the main, which is also very good againsr B2B and terminius.

But back to the topic. Do you think of playing more than 4 creature lands or playing only Blinkmoth?

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I think there may be a configuration that benefits from more than 4 creature lands. But right now I don't think the Stompy version of the deck needs more than 4 creature lands. In my opinion, the main goal of the deck in its more common versions is to have an early lock or a must deal threat. The most effective way of achieving this is via Ancient Tomb or City of Traitors. If I use Tomb, then it follows that I would take considerable damage through the progression of the game, eventually making it too risky to produce mana from it. If I use Traitors I will have a fast start but often my mana production will stagnate as trade land drops for the previously played Traitors. In both cases, I often find myself in developed games where access to mana is at a premium. Under this premise, I don't see myself in a late game using my mana for activating several creature lands.

I think if the deck shifted to a much more aggressive deck style, much like its Modern version, then I can see having more creature lands would be successful.

I saw it mentioned a few pages back, but what is the thought on scrap trawler?

Almost the entire curve is at 2, but a lot of it is also at zero (technically). seems like trawler would make ravager go properly insane and could be some protection against Supreme Verdict/burn/push/etc.

obviously a card for a more grindy build but it seems such builds exist.

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Originally Posted by aslidsiksoraksi

I saw it mentioned a few pages back, but what is the thought on scrap trawler?

Almost the entire curve is at 2, but a lot of it is also at zero (technically). seems like trawler would make ravager go properly insane and could be some protection against Supreme Verdict/burn/push/etc.

obviously a card for a more grindy build but it seems such builds exist.

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I think someone mentioned it earlier in the thread, but the fact that the Artifact returned needs to be less than and not equal to the CMC of the dying one really kills the utility of Scrap Trawler. It makes it so that our two drops only get back zeros and our zeros get back nothing, which really doesn't do all that much in reality. It might by you 1 or maybe 2 more things for Ravager to eat, but I don't know that this is all the great, considering the cost of having Scrap Trawler in your deck in the first place (it might just do nothing).

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Originally Posted by aslidsiksoraksi

I agree, as an outsider looking in that g3 was a bit misplayed. I thought if he goes all in on the etched champion he could at least threaten lethal, or if he had blocked more aggressively...

But then again I have zero experience with the deck. seems like Ballista is the best card in the deck in that matchup and he never seemed to get any :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by H

On GP Birmingham, I think Johan could have won the whole thing, if he lets that Overseer actually block the Ringleader, then swings back and gains 4 off the Jitte, I think he wins that game. Easy to say from my armchair, but I was rooting for him and was glad to see him do well, even if that puts this deck on people's "radar."

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You are both absolutely right, the second game was one massive tilt from my part. I should have either blocked the rabblemaster with the ravager earlier and put the counters on champion, which would have made it a three turn clock, or I should have made it a 12/12 at the end, keeping mox but losing metalcraft, then play an artifact in my turn to gain protection and swing for lethal. The third game was pretty unwinnable I think, there's an argumant for immediately making a token with karn, but it was impossible to guess that he would topdeck spyglass there. Gary actually gave me a fighting chance by abrading the first opal and imprinting the second abrade instead of going for the spyglass and using hazoret to kill me quicker. What really did me in that game was the magus, shutting off my lifegain and tutoring ability from fair.

Although there's no real excuse for playing like a baboon, I do have to point out that I was pretty exhausted at the time and we were both warned by the judge between G1 and G2 that he would start giving out warnings and game losses for slowplay from then on, and every time we paused for more than four seconds or so the judge would whip out his watch and started timing us. Gary actually got a warning during game 2 I believe.

Oh well, everybody makes mistakes I guess. Still very happy with how the deck performed and still really happy with the configuration.

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Originally Posted by Johanovich

Although there's no real excuse for playing like a baboon, I do have to point out that I was pretty exhausted at the time and we were both warned by the judge between G1 and G2 that he would start giving out warnings and game losses for slowplay from then on, and every time we paused for more than four seconds or so the judge would whip out his watch and started timing us. Gary actually got a warning during game 2 I believe.

Oh well, everybody makes mistakes I guess. Still very happy with how the deck performed and still really happy with the configuration.

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I completely understand, as I am usually completely exhausted after just, say, 5-6 rounds of playing. It was a rather complex situation and being rushed isn't going to help. Congratulations on the good run and I think the Etched Champion is probably the 3 drop that works out the best, if they are going to play a 3 drop.

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Originally Posted by Johanovich

You are both absolutely right, the second game was one massive tilt from my part. I should have either blocked the rabblemaster with the ravager earlier and put the counters on champion, which would have made it a three turn clock, or I should have made it a 12/12 at the end, keeping mox but losing metalcraft, then play an artifact in my turn to gain protection and swing for lethal. The third game was pretty unwinnable I think, there's an argumant for immediately making a token with karn, but it was impossible to guess that he would topdeck spyglass there. Gary actually gave me a fighting chance by abrading the first opal and imprinting the second abrade instead of going for the spyglass and using hazoret to kill me quicker. What really did me in that game was the magus, shutting off my lifegain and tutoring ability from fair.

Although there's no real excuse for playing like a baboon, I do have to point out that I was pretty exhausted at the time and we were both warned by the judge between G1 and G2 that he would start giving out warnings and game losses for slowplay from then on, and every time we paused for more than four seconds or so the judge would whip out his watch and started timing us. Gary actually got a warning during game 2 I believe.

Oh well, everybody makes mistakes I guess. Still very happy with how the deck performed and still really happy with the configuration.

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Hi Johan,

Congratz on your great performance! :smile: Really puts the deck on the map.

I had a few questions if you don't mind:
- Why choose Darksteel Citadel over Vault of Whispers? Is the indestructible that important? In my, MUD-experience, it doesn't really help because they'll just waste another land and you're still often low on mana then.
- Is the Phyrexian Metamorph in to copy Steel Overseer or Arcbound Ravager mostly or to copy creatures of the opponent?
- I remember you really liked (we actually met briefly in Belgium, you probably don't remember) Crucible of Worlds in the deck but you took it out, it didn't work out as you would've liked?
- Would you change anything in the list or go with the same 75 if you were to compete with it again?

Great innovation on the Etched Champion, I'm going to try that one as well, the evasion is nice :cool:

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Originally Posted by Airwave

Hi Johan,

Congratz on your great performance! :smile: Really puts the deck on the map.

I had a few questions if you don't mind:
- Why choose Darksteel Citadel over Vault of Whispers? Is the indestructible that important? In my, MUD-experience, it doesn't really help because they'll just waste another land and you're still often low on mana then.
- Is the Phyrexian Metamorph in to copy Steel Overseer or Arcbound Ravager mostly or to copy creatures of the opponent?
- I remember you really liked (we actually met briefly in Belgium, you probably don't remember) Crucible of Worlds in the deck but you took it out, it didn't work out as you would've liked?
- Would you change anything in the list or go with the same 75 if you were to compete with it again?

Great innovation on the Etched Champion, I'm going to try that one as well, the evasion is nice :cool:

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Hi,

I think I do remember our talk. I cut crucible because it did turn out to be winmore in the end.
The darksteel citadel is the most reliable way to turn on metalcraft and keep it active. If you play vault you give them an extra way of manascrewing you by opening it up to spell based removal.
Metamorph is there as a catch-all. So far I've mainly used it to copy leovold, marit lage, true-name and gurmag angler but in some situations copying your own stuff is good as well. As a matter of fact the first game against Takahashi featured a metamorph copying leovold which won me the game but they didn't show that game unfortunately.

I think I might experiment a bit with karn maindeck and with a lower number of thorns (or cut them from the main) as they have proven to be very lackluster in a lot of games and there is a lower amount of combo for the moment. I might also try out an abyss because it just sounds juicy.

So i have posted this on the Discord before but i figured i might as well post it here: How would you guys feel about a red splash (using 2 Great furnace) in order to run blood moons in the sideboard. It hits Lands and turbodepths while also hosing Delver & Pile. ( i run 4 petals 3 opals resulting in a 70-80% chance to have a red source by turn 2-3)

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Originally Posted by Johanovich

Oh well, everybody makes mistakes I guess. Still very happy with how the deck performed and still really happy with the configuration.

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I see that you played Ensnaring Bridge against Grixis Delver. I don't know why you do that, but I'm curious to see your sideboarding strategies. There is a place on the internet where I can found them? Are you thinking to write an article for some website to explain your sideboarding?

I was at GP Toronto this weekend. Didn't played Steel Stompy for the main event, but brought it to a couple of side events. Overall, 3-0, 2-1, 2-1, 2-1, 2-1.

I mostly played Johan De Gruyter list, with some change to the main/sideboard. One change I made to the main deck was playing Blinkmoth Nexus over Mishra's factory. I was really impressed with Blinkmoth nexus and will keep them instead of factories. Flying was relevant in a lot of matches, flying over a stalled board with a bridge, or just equiping a jitte/SoFi and getting there.

Otherwise, I really liked Etched Champion and Darksteel citadel. Champion is kind of a True-Name Nemesis most of the time, and clearly gave me a couple of victories in close games (just think about equiping jitte/SoFi on Etched champion - yeah).

Lodestone golem was unimpressive and I'm thinking about replacing them. I saw some earlier posts talking about it - what are you playing instead of Lodestone ?

Deck is great, lot of fun.

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Originally Posted by Alex_UNLIMITED

I see that you played Ensnaring Bridge against Grixis Delver. I don't know why you do that, but I'm curious to see your sideboarding strategies. There is a place on the internet where I can found them? Are you thinking to write an article for some website to explain your sideboarding?

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To be honest I wasn't thinking about writing an article, but if people want to know I guess I could write something small.
During testing against grixis delver I found that bridge can often be a life-saver in the matchup, buying you enough time to stabilize before they can destroy it of before you get rid of it yourself.

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Originally Posted by Johanovich

To be honest I wasn't thinking about writing an article, but if people want to know I guess I could write something small.
During testing against grixis delver I found that bridge can often be a life-saver in the matchup, buying you enough time to stabilize before they can destroy it of before you get rid of it yourself.

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Yes, please! A quick guide about the sideboarding would be great! I see that you also side in a lot of cards against Czech Pile (at least Sorcerous Spyglass and Ratchet Bomb, other than Karn, Scion of Urza, but I didn't see Spellskite, even if maybe you side in it too), but I have some doubt about what to side out.
I was (and maybe still I am) a MUD player and I buy this deck after your result at GP, even if I already knew Steel Stompy.

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Originally Posted by Alex_UNLIMITED

Yes, please! A quick guide about the sideboarding would be great! I see that you also side in a lot of cards against Czech Pile (at least Sorcerous Spyglass and Ratchet Bomb, other than Karn, Scion of Urza, but I didn't see Spellskite, even if maybe you side in it too), but I have some doubt about what to side out.
I was (and maybe still I am) a MUD player and I buy this deck after your result at GP, even if I already knew Steel Stompy.

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I play more MUD still than this deck, which is more of a preference choice than anything else. I feel like both get equally wrecked by btb, although the faster start of stompy occasionally just gets there underneath it if they cannot find terminus in time. Crucible does appear a win more in this deck, as it is very different than MUD. This deck ive found dies a little harder to null rod, but is slightly more resilient to k command. Thorn and Chalice is still great in either MUD or Stompy. Thoughts across both, so far.

Ps, i really like metamorph in either. How many people play it in this deck?

Just went 12-3 in mtgo leagues with the following list (including a 5-0 league):

https://i.imgur.com/szeLBSQ.jpg

This was a proof of concept, to test (a) that 8 creature lands can be played (b) that if such deck was viable, then Karn can be maximized in there. So far seems to have yielded some good anecdotal results. A lot more testing is required.

A few changes needed:

Mainboard:
-1 Ghost Quarter
+1 Darksteel Citadel
Sideboad:
-1 Ghost Quarter
-2 Crucible of Worlds
+3 Thorn of Amethyst


Individual card discussion:

Ghost Quarter. I had tested with Vault of Whispers and I really liked it; but the fact that Citadel is immune to Wasteland is a much greater bonus than tapping for black. Ghost Quarter on the other hand was irrelevant for most of the games where I had it. There was only one instance in which it function as a worse wasteland. Otherwise, it was not worth sac'cing.

Crucible of Worlds. Just like GQ, didn't seem like the right choice in many matches. Maybe in a Lands heavy metagame is a good choice, but not right now.

Thorn of Amethyst. My initial feel is that I don't want Thorn in a deck with 4 Karns. Now I feel that Thorns in the SB is needed, otherwise I concede too much to Storm, and other combo decks. And for those decks, Karn may not be the right choice.


Karn, Scion of Urza. I think Karn is good; but I also think it is very overhyped. It's not backbreaking, but it is a Planeswalker and as such is difficult for opponents to deal with. I have learned that in our deck its best ability is the -2, and I often found myself only using this ability. On the other hand, I sometimes wonder if playing Master of Etherium would be just as good. I guess I'll never know because I'm not going to test that ;P. Anyhow, I wouldn't cut any Karns, the creatures it spits out grow very fast and trade with other big creatures in the format. And redundant Karns are pretty acceptable. So I'm sticking with 4x

Welding Jar This card was the MVP. I would play 3 or 4 if it wasn't a dead card on its own. But being able to protect Overseer or Chalice, ANY OTHER ARTIFACT is just so amazing. I guess the best part was having opponents losing their minds with such an obnoxious card on the field. But for now, I'll stick with 2, and will perhaps test out 3.

Lodestone Golem. I think 2x of them is OK. I woudn't cut them unless I think Storm is nonexistent in the metagame. If I were to play 3, then I would cut 2 Karns; if I were to play 4 then I would play 0 Karns in the mainboard. So I think 2x is the max number with 4x Karns.

Guys, what's your sideboarding strategy against Grixis Delver and Czech Pile?
Grixis Delver: what are the bad maindeck cards against them? I think Phyrexian Revoker and Karakas, but maybe also other cards?
Czech Pile: what are the good sideboard cards against them? Karn, Scion of Urza, Spellskite, Sourcerouss Spyglass and Ratchet Bomb are all good cards, but how can I find a space to put all of them in g2?

Is anyone else finding mox opal a bit lack luster? I'm finding that it's not often 'on' until turn 2 or 3, and easily shuts off when the opponent kills off our creatures, so it ends up being a... worse land? With this deck, there aren't any/many 0-drops that we can play to use it to cheat out a turn 1 thorn or chalice... which should be the whole point of playing the card in the first place

I think we can cut it, and replace it with mox diamonds (which would require a higher land count) or crystal veins. Thoughts? Am I in the minority in seeing how slow mox opal really is?

EDIT: edited for grammar

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Originally Posted by mambosong

Is anyone else finding mox opal a bit lack luster? I'm finding that it's not often 'on' until turn 2 or 3, and easily shuts off when the opponent kills off our creatures, so it ends up being a... worse land? With this deck, there aren't any/many 0-drops that we can play to use it to cheat out a turn 1 thorn or chalice... which should be the whole point of playing the card in the first place

I think we can cut it, and replace it with mox diamonds (which would require a higher land count) or crystal veins. Thoughts? Am I in the minority in seeing how slow mox opal really is?

EDIT: edited for grammar

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In those builds without artifact lands, the expectation is that Mox Opal would normally be available mostly turn 3 and on; sometimes turn 2. Which is why some builds have cut to 2 of them. In the version with artifact lands, having 3 should be the standard, with sometimes able to jump to 4. So far, I'm very happy with Mox Opal. Perhaps you have set your expectations too high?

Mox Diamond is an alternative, but your land count should be above 24, so maybe 25-26. But I would supplement Mox Opals and Petals, rather than replacing them. I personally would not do it mostly because I believe the deck is already very high variance, and Mox Diamond just adds more of it.

In addition to artifact lands, you may want to test into zero cost artifacts. Right now I have had success with Welding Jar, but Baubles may be another potential way of activating Opals.

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Originally Posted by Johanovich

To be honest I wasn't thinking about writing an article, but if people want to know I guess I could write something small.
During testing against grixis delver I found that bridge can often be a life-saver in the matchup, buying you enough time to stabilize before they can destroy it of before you get rid of it yourself.

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Where do you find the space to put those sideboard cards? What are the worse maindeck cards against Czech Pile and Grixis Delver?

Another iteration with a decent success. The new player is Thought-Knot Seer:

https://i.imgur.com/jqTXWq1.png

After heavily testing with Karn I really came to appreciate having threats that are not vulnerable to artifact destruction. Further, I wanted to have more disruption in the main and honesty I didn't think Lodestone Golem was not cutting it with the Thorns moved to the SB. Long time ago I tried TKS in MoS, but without success.

I think what's different in this new iteration is the diversity in threats.

Karn continues to be a force to reckoned, and I hesitated cutting down their number, but on the other hand I cannot have a top-heavy curve.

No love for Inventor's Fair and Jitte?
I found Fair very cute and quite convenient when you can tutor up Metamorph, Jitte, or Ballista in late game to break stalemate.
You almost doubled (or tripled if Hangarback Walker counts) the number of creatures with evasion so Jitte should be a thing here.

What do you think about Sorcerous Spyglass against Grixis Delver? Death & Taxes players prefer to not play Phyrexian Revoker against Grixis Delver in g2 (the only target is maybe Deathrite Shaman). Do you prefer to play both Phyrexian Revoker and Sorcerous Spyglass against Grixis Delver?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Alex_UNLIMITED

Where do you find the space to put those sideboard cards? What are the worse maindeck cards against Czech Pile and Grixis Delver?

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Alex_UNLIMITED

What do you think about Sorcerous Spyglass against Grixis Delver? Death & Taxes players prefer to not play Phyrexian Revoker against Grixis Delver in g2 (the only target is maybe Deathrite Shaman). Do you prefer to play both Phyrexian Revoker and Sorcerous Spyglass against Grixis Delver?

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Revoker is the first thing to go out against grixis delver and czech pile. It dies to everything they have and is pretty weak on it's own. I also find thorn pretty lackluster against grixis and czech after game 1. Games tend to go longer after game 1 so the effect of a thorn is quickly mitigated (especially with deathrite). Grixis is also very capable of playing a longer game, much better than UR delver or RUG delver where thorn stays good after game 1. You're boarding in mostly noncreature spells which is also kind of a nonbo with thorn.

Spyglass or not depends a bit on how they boarded. If they board in stuff like lili the last hope, lavamancer or staticaster you might want to bring one or both in. I you can't shut them down these cards pretty much wreck the deck.

I'll write how I sideboarded against the decks I faced next week together with a report of the GP. I'm in the middle of writing a paper so I don't have much time for now.

Working on a new variation. Here's a little teaser:

https://i.imgur.com/JDicml8.png