If I wanted to stick to a mono-red build (unlike Dunward Painter), what are some good alternatives without using Imperial Recruiters? Gamble with Goblin Welder perhaps?
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If I wanted to stick to a mono-red build (unlike Dunward Painter), what are some good alternatives without using Imperial Recruiters? Gamble with Goblin Welder perhaps?
Congrats on the finish Drew. I think your breakdown of the matchups is spot on except I have to think goblins is in your favor. I know a lot depends on the build but at the last SCG open I went 6-3 beating goblins twice and losing once to a kid who top 16 with it. Actually all my loses were to top 16 finishers, but that is not really important. As long as you stop lackey and go for the combo you should be able to do it. I lost game three to 3 gempalm incinerators with a Stingscorger on a resolved Eldrazi. Yes he got an awesome draw but I still think it was winnable. Thankfully people realize belcher is a bad deck so we don't have to play against it much.
I'll be playing in a GP trial Tom so I'll post my list and a report following. I have made a few changes from my previous lists. As of yesterday I was testing a Dreadstill variant as I think dreadnought is strong right now. But that also means painter is strong so I'm running it Sunday.
I'm happy to see the Wildfire Emissary is working for people. I know when I first suggested it a few months ago people were a little hesitant but he really is a good creature for what he can do.
As to building the deck without recruiters I don't know what to say. You def need a tutor of some sort. Gamble and welders just aren't the same. Maybe try intuition as it let's you grab magus of the moon which is really important. Otherwise I might be inclined to use tops and enlightened tutor with welders. That might be able to get you some of the consistency you lose without Imperial Recuiter. Unfortunately this is one of those decks that you need a card that no other deck will use and as such you have to really commit to it. It took me over two years of trading to get recuiters. You just don't see them anymore. If you're thinking about playing the deck proxy it up and see how you like it. Play the shit out of it and then commit to buying and trading for the cards. With the price of staples skyrocketing you can get some real solid prices for you cards.
Seth
I got 2 from a store in Japan ,back when wizards had just legalized P3 Kingdoms.The other 2 were from magictraders.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheProfessor
I agree with this, it just feels different without the damned recruiters.Quote:
Originally Posted by sroncor1
I bought all mine on here.............I have 7:)
Later EddieO
Ok so I managed to go 5-1 at the PTQ today. I made top 8 as the the third seed and scooped to my friend jimmy as he was def. going to the grand prix and I am still unsure. Overall I have to say the deck is really positioned well in the current meta game. Zoo is almost a non factor now and you would have to be an idiot to run belcher with all the combo hate around. Getting rid of our two worst match ups is so good.
About the event. I beat show and tell/NO first round. Lost to merfolk( This may have been the first time ever in sanctioned play), then proceded to beat Belcher, Goblins, Dreadstill, and Thopters. I managed to get a little lucky against belcher, but otherwise I basically felt as if the deck was so much stronger than everything I played against. The merfolk match up was just weird and I made a misplay along with triple FOW in the one game I lost. I milled maybe half the time. The other times I used Magnus beats and a couple Eldrazi to smash face.
This brings me to my last point tonight. I can not say that the blue splash I am running is the best, but I think it is strong and just requires a lot of practice. The deck CAN NOT be built without Imperial Recruiters though. I am more than happy to offer advice on substitutions( Namely I think Intuition is your best bet), but I would really love this thread to not discuss the option of Recruiters or where to get them. I know a bunch of other threads have been derailed talking about the price of cards, but let's try to leave that out of this thread. i think we are very lucky that there is a small group of people that read/post/play this deck and as such we may be able to avoid the decline in some of the posting here on the Source recently. Sorry for getting on a soap box, but I want this thread to try and advance Imperial Painter, not create bastardized versions of it. I know I personally don't have the time to put into the deck like I use to, but there are some great posters here and we should all be working towards that goal.
I'll get an updated list hopefully within the next two days or so. I am trying out a few cards in some of the flex spots, but my list hasn't changed much in the past 4 months or so. I want to get into to sideboard and strategy that I have worked out with my blue splash as I think the basis can be applied to all versions of Imperial Painter.
Seth
@ EddieO -- Damn what do you do with 7 imperials? :p
@ Seth -- Thanks for the tourney report what was the deck list you used for that tourney?
@Nameless -- Actually been researching for the past few months now if an alternative could be done for imperials.... have to be honest man. Its hard to replace the MONO red's synergy with Imperial. As it acts as a toolbox -- gamble will also act as a tool box but the drawback makes you card advantage and tempo. No other search cards in red that can trade 1 for 1.
Anybody selling their imperials? lol (and yes i am looking for a set haha)
What is the going rate of these guys (NM-M cond? ~175-200usd?)
Sroncor1, what list are you running now? I know last time we chatted you were doing the show and tell SB option, but are you running any blue cards main deck? I've always liked the black splash, though I have been running the deck mono-red since I bought the cards for MTGO....only problem with MTGO is the decks are so random.....and I swear ANT players get the luckiest draws against me. I've lost more on the first and 2nd turn to ANT than I can count, 75% its just iggy loop.....
I am intrigued by the list posted a few pages back using black as the primary color with discard, etc. I guess its more similar to the U/R welder version, as it's going straight combo pretty much. I am gonna pick up the cards online and give it a spin, but LED isn't cheap!
TheProffessor, I bought my first four for this deck. Then I bought one for my EDH deck. I then really wanted to try Aluren, but I hate having to pull apart decks, so I started to buy 3 more to complete another play set.....I found 2, but never had much luck finding a third, so I gave up....I stopped playing Aluren anyways, just WAY to inconsistent and too much hate for it.
Later EddieO
I'll break down my deck in a bit I, I really love the way it has been playing lately. When I get a chance to sit down at a comp. for an extended period of time I'll do a full decklist. What I was thinking we could do is every couple days start a discussion about possible cards and or strategies. That way we can advance the deck and help those who are new to it to understand some of the subtle points and choices which may seem alien. So many people who are unfamiliar with the deck laugh at FoD and can't see why I play it.
In other news there are some really interesting cards in the new set and I do not mean the new counterspell. But the red Priest of Glix really interests me. that and the blue guy who we can drop for three and then have parity with any creature on the board. I have to test it, but seems like a really strong tutor target.
I am currently not running teh Phyrexian revoker in my built. In theory I love the card and a tutorable Pithing Needle seems like it should be played but I really can't come up with a situation where I would actually do that. It's good against Belcher if you guess right but otherwise vial really has not been a problem for me.
Seth
Going rate is ~200 each, though playsets can go for as much as 900 since finding someone with 4 is very hard.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheProfessor
I used to play this deck, but I've stopped and I sold my set a few months ago for 950 USD, turned around and bought about 100 cards to play around with Bant lists :)
Ok so I went 4-1-1 with a loss in the top 8. My only loss in the swiss came from the fact that I didn't get out of the hospital in time and missed the first round. Here is my deck list.
4 Imperial recruiters
4 SSG
4 Painter's servant
4 Grindstone
4 Magus of the Moon
3 FoD
4 Grindstone
3 Chrome Mox
6 Blast effects
2 Koth
4 Lightning Bolts
1 Goblin welder
4 City of Traitors
4 Ancient tomb
4 Scalding tarn
5 Mountains
2 Volcanic islands
2 Blood Moon
Side;
1 jaya Ballard
4 intuition
4 show and Tell
4 Emrakul
2 Blood Moon
I was exhausted but the deck performed brilliantly. I beat junk, high tide, dreadstill, and merfolk. My loss came at the hands of a weird artifact deck. Not making excuses as I probably was too tired and I prob should have mulled, but I was basically always holding the wrong combo pieces, like three copies in each game. Sometimes you get unlucky. Overall I think this is the most powerful version I have ever played. it is so strong in the meta right now I highly encourage you guys to try it out. being able to Intuition just gives you so much. It is just hard to get the correct piles. The main deck welder could be anything right now, but in theory he is good in the meta. I actually have never used him yet other than a beater or to bait a counter. jaya Ballard or Wildfire could both be otpions and I do like some of the new cards in the new set.
On to the deck, other than against Merfolk you should have dead cards in every match up. That is just the way it goes. Often times it is the lightning bolt, but keep it main decked! But this aspect gives you a unique option. I usually board in intuition if I'm on the draw in games 2 or 3. It is great, gives you flexibility and allows you to get the piece you need with more information of what your opponent will be doing. On the play I love the Eldrazi package. It really is so strong, between that and your painter combo, you are in great shape with such a high density of threats. The Eldrazi package is actually really more dynamic than it looks.
We can start talkingf about plans of attack and sideboarding if people want. I tried to help some of the people in the U/R painter thread but was basically told I was wrong by someone who thinks there are decks with NO that have goyf in the sideboard. What can I say I guess I am just a bad player. Anyway, fuck them and we can just talk about this, our deck beats theirs anyway!
Seth
finally i found some time to post something again.
Seth, i love you list and Gratz on the finish. But i have a question don't you miss Top.
I have tried the other R/U list posted a while back(4 trinket mage), what i loved about it is that you have search for your Stone.
The part i hated about it, was the turn 1 moon effect screwed your opponent and yourself. It was hard to what was the play in the deck.
But the mono version was better.
The part i like about this list is that it has the U color sideboard. But the sideboard? what your plan against combo etc?
For the flexslot what do you think about Kargan Dragonlord that drew used?
grt
To be honest sometimes I miss the Trinket mage build. I really do love the card and i loved having the ability to get some really strong artifacts. it may be something to revisit with zoo not around as it had a horrible match up against zoo. Currently I'm really happy with the current list and doubt I'll be going back to the Trinket mage list anytime soon. It def is strong, and if Junk is big in your area it might be the right play. I just think Intuition is slightly better as it can get you anything in the deck. Instant speed is not bad either.
Dragonlord would be a suitable addition if you want. I tested him initially when he was released in place of FoD and I didn't like it. I haven't tested him since but he could be strong. personally I would add something that is a little more dynamic to the deck, but it is preferance at this point. I do think you should have a Welder someplace in the 75 though.
Other crads I would love to fit are Wildfire Emissary, another Welder, possible that new clone in the new set, jaya Ballard, or Mox Monkey, along with the other two blasts. Obviously there isn't room for all that but that is what I am playing with these days.
Seth
- I don't care for blue splashes in this deck. You'd jeopardize your entire mana base just for Trinket Mage? I don't get it.
- Black splashes can be good for specific metas.
- 2 Chrome Moxes seems to be the definitive number to run.
- Jaya makes little sense as a sideboard option. 1 - 2 should always be ran in the main deck.
@ the Big Ragu- I think it has been established that 3 chrome mox are the optimal number. I can't remember any playing less than that and i highly recomend against it. You have to balance first turn moon effects against some dead late draws. That is why three works. Jaya Ballard actually doesn't have to be in the deck. She is a good catch all answer but is slow and fragile. There are times when other creatures are actually stronger. If your oppenent plays white she really isn't that strong at all. She becomes a liability. If you are worried about artifacts use the Viashino Heretic, he is just better. I'm not saying she is bad, but she isn't required by any stretch. I know Trinket Mage may not look like much, but try him out. He really changed the way the deck played. A slight blue splash does not wreck the mana base at all. You just have to be smart in how you fetch and set up your turns. My only mana problems have come when I draw too few and I run 19, which is one more than most.
Seth
I went 4-1 in swiss and a loss right away in the top 8 at a 31 man tournament this weekend with this list.
4 Imperial Recruiter
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Red Elemental Blast
4 Painter's Servant
4 Grindstone
4 Simian Spirit Guide
3 Magma Jet
3 Magus of the Moon
3 Blood Moon
3 Figure of Destiny
3 Chrome Mox
2 Pyroblast
1 Jaya Ballard, Task Mage
4 City of Traitors
4 Ancient Tomb
10 Mountain
Sideboard
3 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Phyrexian Revoker
3 Shattering Spree
1 Pyroblast
4 Trinisphere
3 Tormod's Crypt
I saw combo elves, UGB countertop with goyfs and bobs, infect stompy, countertop thopters, and the gate in the swiss. The loss was to combo elves. Then in the top 8 I got to lose to combo elves again. I really miss the days when these guys had Grapeshot instead of Emrakul.
I'm pretty sure the mono red versions just can't beat combo elves.
Hey Kusumoto.
I was the elves player in Top 8. As I mentioned in our match, I also dabble in Painter variants quite a bit.
I really do think that Imperial Painter (the moon effects specifically) is really strong in the current meta, but aside from siding pyroclasm or volcanic fallout (neither of which are even guaranteed to stop us) I think the matchup will still be tough. I am interested to see if anyone else has a different opinion though?
This is my first post on here and I'm just starting to play legacy MTGO only. My only question for now is Goblin Welder a must have?
He seem pretty good but he's not cheap and space in this deck is hard to find.
No he is not required at all. I however have no idea what the online meta is like and he may make the deck stronger. I often times play without him though. Hope this helps.
Seth
So I'll be playing this deck this weekend in two events. Don't know if I'll make any substantial changes to the deck. I have been testing out some of the new cards and I really like Phyrexian Metamorph as a tutorable target in some matchups. Without really knowing what is going to happen with mental misstep it is hard to really plan for the meta. I really want two more blast effects in the board and may cut a moon effect for one of them. Vexing Shusher and Goblin Welder both become stronger I feel.
I have also been trying out a few different sideboard packages. With the decline of zoo the drive for Show and Tell isn't as strong. It is immune to the changes a Mental Misstep metagame would provide though. I have tried a few other sideboards that allow the deck a more controlling role. It tries to capitalize on cards like lavamancer and Firespout to name a few. I have been trying to fit Jace in here someplace as he is so strong with Koth as finishers. Anyway what do you guys think?
Seth
So I'll be playing this deck this weekend in two events. Don't know if I'll make any substantial changes to the deck. I have been testing out some of the new cards and I really like Phyrexian Metamorph as a tutorable target in some matchups. Without really knowing what is going to happen with mental misstep it is hard to really plan for the meta. I really want two more blast effects in the board and may cut a moon effect for one of them. Vexing Shusher and Goblin Welder both become stronger I feel.
I have also been trying out a few different sideboard packages. With the decline of zoo the drive for Show and Tell isn't as strong. It is immune to the changes a Mental Misstep metagame would provide though. I have tried a few other sideboards that allow the deck a more controlling role. It tries to capitalize on cards like lavamancer and Firespout to name a few. I have been trying to fit Jace in here someplace as he is so strong with Koth as finishers. Anyway what do you guys think?
Seth