Heh I had that happen to me before (but it was my opponent playing Pithing Needle on my Metalworker). It was glorious - even better because Metalworker is still a valid card for Pithing Needle to name.Quote:
Originally Posted by th3 w1z4rd
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Heh I had that happen to me before (but it was my opponent playing Pithing Needle on my Metalworker). It was glorious - even better because Metalworker is still a valid card for Pithing Needle to name.Quote:
Originally Posted by th3 w1z4rd
Somebody want to advice on my current build? Im not very happy with lodestone vs my colored cards but hes so good in the deck.
Equipment
1x Argentum Armor
4x Batterskull
Slow down
4x Chalice of the Void
4x Lodestone Golem
Speed up
4x Grim Monolith
2x Thran Dynamo
4x Metalworker
Random stuff
1x Crucible of Worlds
Robots+ godo
4x Wurmcoil Engine
3x Godo, Bandit Warlord
Land
4x Ancient Tomb
4x Cavern of Souls
4x City of Traitors
2x Mishra’s Factory (winter :p)
3x Mountain (arabian :p)
4x Rishadan Port
4x Wasteland
Removal
2x Karn Liberated
2x Bonfire of the Damned
SIdeboard:
3x goblin welder
4x magus of the moon
4x TrInisphere
4x phyrexian revoker
That's exactly what I was talking about. My opp played needle and I forgot I could still use worker.Quote:
Originally Posted by Esper3k
Doh!Quote:
Originally Posted by th3 w1z4rd
On a different note, I was thinking about this some today and with the seemingly rising popularity of Death & Taxes, what cards do you guys consider good or bad in the matchup? I'm playing a MUD (pure MUD, no red) Stompy (so no Forgemaster) list and I'm having a tough time with that.
Here are my thoughts on some cards:
Chalice: While not amazing in the matchup, it's still important to shut off their StP. If we can get it down before their Aether Vial, it can be a real dicking for them too.
Revoker: While normally I wouldn't like them vs a deck that has so many creatures, I think they're still important to shut off Aether Vial, Jitte, Mangara, etc.
Batterskull: They have StP. Their creatures are generally tiny. Batterskull seems awesome here. Probably want the full 4.
Crucible of Worlds: They have Wasteland + Port as well as Revokers / Thalia, so our mana does get constrained against them. It would seem that Crucible is necessary here?
Wurmcoil Engine: As much as I like big artifact dudes against decks chock full of little dudes, StP does make him a sad sad farmer. Plus, I'm assuming they'll bring in stuff like O-Rings which makes him even worse.
Karn Liberated: Yes, Karn is awesome, but is he necessary? Could be since he's one of the few ways we can deal with Revokers and Jitte. He does cost 7 vs a deck running Wasteland/Port/Thalia/Revoker though...
All Is Dust: Again awesome if we can play it. Again a 7 drop vs a deck full of mana denial.
Lodestone Golem: I was thinking maybe he gets the cut? The mana tax doesn't hurt them that much due to low mana costs and Aether Vials. His 3 toughness isn't that amazing against them, although he is very difficult for them to block effectively.
I'm currently not playing any Sundering Titans or Steel Hellkites, pretty much just considering small tweaks to my list (it was a few posts back), essentially considering a few extra Karn/Batterskull/Crucible/AiDs from the board and what to bring out since I already feel most of the cards in the deck are good against them.
Thanks and any thoughts are appreciated!
Thanks for bringing this up! Death and Taxes is generally a really hard match-up for MUD. I've had quite a bit of experience playing against it at my local tournaments (1-2 DnT players at a 14-20 tourney). I have beat it once, but it's a tough one. Also recently I lost to it at the big legacy tournament in baltimore.Quote:
Originally Posted by Esper3k
I had Batterskull online but it sucked cause his Mirrin Crusader has pro black. Staff of Nin is pretty good against them. It kills Thalia, mom, revoker and combined with voltaic key or multiple copies, you're drawing a lot of cards and killing most of their creatures. The trick is making sure you get to 6 mana. I would run 4 steel hellkite, 2-3 crucible of worlds, 4 phyrexian revoker and 4 goblin welder. Cut godo for welder against blue decks and DnT. It will give you a strong control game which could in theory allow you to become the control player. I really like Karn Liberated and all is dust. if they don't play wasteland turn 1 you can have a turn 2 karn liberated and that can be game over for them a lot of times. Name Mangara or Jitte or vial on the first revoker. I feel it's better to name Mangara cause they can still get a mangara loop with karakas if they have enough mana to reoccur it. Jitte is also a good choice as they cant kill our dudes with -1 -1 jitte counters. Also I would cut 4 lodestone golem in this match up. He's just not very good in this match up.
Also has anyone here tested Ghost Quarter + Crucible? I really want to try running 3 ghost quarter for an essential stripmine each turn against some decks. Even the decks that run a few basics, it's usually only 2 or 3 basics at most.
I'm working on a build that runs Upheaval based on some old metalworker decks
https://www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazi...ard/ptno03/qf1
I would love to see that Upheaval list. The last time I saw someone cast Upheaval against me was followed with a game winning Psychatog.
That reminds me of the time when I played a mind trick to my opponent naming sol ring with pithing needle, altough Kamigawa was just released and people wasn't familiar with the card ^_^Quote:
Originally Posted by th3 w1z4rd
@lukatron,
Makes sense to at least play welder in a red muds sideboard against blue. I thrown them in my board. Only now poor magus seems unnecesary, because cavern will be on goblin if godo is taken out. what card is essential in a sideboard? I have four spots if i lose the magus guys. Maybe faerie macabre?
So GP Houston was in town this weekend... and we still had 10 people show up for our LGS's weekly event, hah!
Serves Pasttimes right for not having any Eternal side events!
Playing the same MUD Stompy list I've been durdling around with just -2 Crumbling Sanctuary, +2 Trinisphere changed in the board (I wanted something a tiny bit faster against Burn and more useful against Storm). 4 rounds, cut to Top 4.
Round 1: vs Mono White Soldiers
This one wasn't very exciting. One of our younger Legacy players (he's in 6th grade) and he doesn't really have much of a collection yet.
Game 1: He actually has an StP for my Metalworker. However, he has no answer to my Batterskull followed by Wurmcoil.
Game 2: He goes T1 Boros Recruit, T2 Raise the Alarm, T3 Raise the Alarm, T4 Raise the Alarm... I actually start to get worried because I open a double Ancient Tomb hand, but he didn't have an answer to my Metalworker, which lets me poop out a Wurmcoil and Batterskull when I get to untap with it.
1-0 (2-0)
Round 2: vs 4 color Deathblade
Game 1: This game goes massively long as I spend much of the game sitting around Porting & Wastelanding him but he draws 3 StPs and has Forces for my bombs. Eventually, I finally stick Karn Liberated and Karn unanswered grinds him out of the game.
-3 Voltaic Key
+1 Batterskull
+1 Karn Liberated
+1 Crucible of Worlds
Game 2: I keep a 2 lander, but open with Monolith, Crucible, Batterskull, Karn, Chalice. He doesn't have an answer to my Chalice @ 1 on T2, but does have a T3 Clique for my draw step. I haven't drawn a land yet, but he sees a another Chalice and Cliques that away. Of course, that draws me into my next land, I drop Monolith and things get rolling from there. I win on T4 of Turns with dubs Batterskull and Karn removing his last blocker.
2-0 (4-0)
Round 3 - vs Hypergenesis/Eureka
I scouted around in between rounds so I knew what he was playing (which was very key in Game 1).
Game 1: Knowing what I'm up against, I drop Chalice @ 0 on T1 and drop a Revoker naming Elvish Spirit Guide, much to my opponent's great sadness. He eventually Beast Within's the Chalice, but I have a second one in my hand and my Beast, Revoker, and eventually Batterskull get him.
-1 Crucible of Worlds
-3 Voltaic Key
-1 Batterskull
+4 Sphere of Resistance
+2 Trinisphere
Game 2: I open with a T1 Revoker on ESG. T2, I drop a Lodestone Golem and in response, he Beast Withins my Revoker. On his T3, he plays an Ancient Tomb (so he has Forest, 2x Ancient Tomb), pitches ESG and plays Eureka. Ugh. First thing he drops is Angel of Serenity and I look sadly at my Wurmcoil in my hand. A second Angel comes down while I drop lands and artifact mana. I actually hard cast my Wurmcoil on my turn, but it's not enough to race the double angels (I had taken some damage from Ancient Tombs). Of course, my next two draws are Sphere and Trinisphere. Thanks, deck!
Game 3: I keep a 3 lander of Port, Wasteland, Wasteland along with Revoker, Sphere, Monolith, Wurmcoil. This game goes a little long as neither of us draw any lands for awhile and I have to keep Porting his Forest to keep him off of GG. He has an Island, but I'm ok with him playing Show & Tell due to the Wurmcoil (I can race Progenitus with it). I play the odds that my 23 land deck will cough up a land before his combo deck does and my faith pays off, which allows me to drop Monolith while continuing to Port him and that lets me lock him out with the double Lodestone Golems I've drawn by this time.
3-0 (6-1)
Round 4 - vs Affinity with Stoneforge Mystic & Tezzeret
SFM in Affinity is pretty interesting. There's actually very few Affinity cards left in this list, but having SFM to fetch up Batterskulls, Jittes, and Cranial Platings is actually pretty scary. It's also a funny matchup because we're playing little artifacts vs big artifacts!
Game 1: Game drags on and he has triple Dispatch to kill my dudes, doh! I All is Dust his board away, but he rips Tezzeret off the top and his ultimate kills me dead.
-1 Crucible of Worlds
-1 All is Dust
+1 Karn Liberated (I need more answers to Equipment)
+1 Batterskull
Game 2: He mulls to 5 and drops Mox Opal, Glimmervoid. I apologize because I have the T2 Karn hand and Karn away his Opal...
Game 3: He gets out a T2 Etched Champion, but I have Phyrexian Revoker to hold him off! Champion actually does a pretty good job of holding back my Batterskull though, but big daddy Karn comes down and starts eating away his board until he runs out of things to stop be.
4-0 (8-2)
Top 4: vs Affinity
Normally we split in T4, but with so few people, the payout wasn't that hot, so we played the T4!
Game 1: I open with Chalice @ 1 followed shortly after by Wurmcoil Engine.
Game 2: I double Wasteland him early on and he continues to draw lands while I don't. Doh!
Game 3: I untap with Metalworker and vomit forth my hand.
5-0 (10-3)
I split with my buddy in the finals and go get some food.
Still having a blast playing in the MUD!
Nice that mud still kicks ass- and as usual karn wins many games!
Yeah against non-combo decks, powering out a fast Karn feels like cheating.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex Holland
I always loved Karn but the matchups where I need him most are the GWx, but they all play Gaddock Teeg so I sadly switched my Karns for Ratchet Bombs
Karn is ok against those decks, but I actually don't like him as much against the more aggressive GWx decks since they tend to run Thalia, so you're really double taxing casting him between Thalia and Lodestone. All Is Dust is actually better, imo, since it just completely sweeps their board for the same cost as Karn.
Honestly, against the more aggro decks, my game plan is usually to just crush them with Wurmcoils & Batterskulls. Ideally, you get out a Chalice @ 1 as well to protect your Wurmcoils from StP (this is where Batterskull really shines compared to Wurmcoil).
Isn't Karn great against Miracle Control and Blade Control decks since they have little to no means of dealing with Planeswalkers?
Yes, Karn is really there for the control matchups. Aggro decks generally have an easier time dealing with Planeswalkers due to simply just being able to swarm them over with dudes.Quote:
Originally Posted by (nameless one)
Karn is tougher than your normal Planeswalker, true, but he's not really there for the aggro matchups. Things like Batterskull, Wurmcoil, All is Dust are what will generally win our aggro battles for us.
So Karn should be a sideboard card by delegation right? Although that said, I guess it all depends on the metagame.
How often do people win with Karn against non control decks?
I play the Stompy version of MUD (pure brown!), so I'm playing 2 main, one in the board.Quote:
Originally Posted by (nameless one)
When you play Karn, you will almost never win with his ultimate (I have in fact, never gotten to ultimate with him). Typically, he's just going to sit there eating lands or anything threatening while you beat them to death with big metal monsters.
So, Karn rarely single handedly directly wins on his own, but he affects the board so much (even if your opponents kill him, they tend to have to use so many resources to do it) that he "wins" the game that way.
I keep Karn in against mid range / control. He generally comes out against fast combo that has few permanents and aggro.
While all is dust destroys all colored permanents karn can also remove annoying lands.
+ he controls. When u play all is dust your opponent can play a moat next turn (just a random example). Karn will still be ready to deal with it while all is dust is gone.
So i prefer karn! Especially with stompy we should choose control over big bang style cards. I think i go for 2-3 karn main and 1-2 all is dust..
Exactly, Karn is great when you need pinpoint answers to specific annoying permanents or if you need to grind out a game (ie, keep them mana denied under a Lodestone Golem while you Port them, etc.).Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex Holland
All Is Dust is for those aggro matchups where you're getting swarmed down by 3 Merfolk Lords or something.
I play 2 Karn, 1 AiDs main and one of each in the board.
I did a small update with the opening post. However, I haven't updated my "personal list".
Feel free to criticize