[Deck] Turbo Depths

You got it negator. I did some thinking on the airplane and I thnk I'm going to cut the forest rather than the bog to blank submerge.

What are your general thoughts on crop rotation vs scrying vs delver? Tminus 6 hours!

I'm also somewhat tempted to run a emrakul the promised end + eye of ugin + coffers sideboard plan, but it takes up too many slots. Something like.

3 abrupt decay
3 surgical
1 karakas
1 deluge
3 sphere
1 needle
1 emrkaul
1 eye of ugin
1 coffers

vs

3 decay
3 surgical
1 karakas
1 deluge
4 sphere
1 needle
1 crucible
1 not

Have you tested the sideboard plan of Emrakul, the Promised End, Eye of Ugin, and Cabal Coffers? This close to the GP I wouldn't alter the sideboard to include untested cards, personally.

I would play the proper Emrakul or Kozilek 1.0

With Eye of Ugin and Coffers it is not so absurd to have 13 mana

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jdmdave

You got it negator. I did some thinking on the airplane and I thnk I'm going to cut the forest rather than the bog to blank submerge.

What are your general thoughts on crop rotation vs scrying vs delver? Tminus 6 hours!

I'm also somewhat tempted to run a emrakul the promised end + eye of ugin + coffers sideboard plan, but it takes up too many slots. Something like.

3 abrupt decay
3 surgical
1 karakas
1 deluge
3 sphere
1 needle
1 emrkaul
1 eye of ugin
1 coffers

vs

3 decay
3 surgical
1 karakas
1 deluge
4 sphere
1 needle
1 crucible
1 not

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Crop Rotation if the more objectively powerful card. It's trivially easy to play around Daze with it if you are paying attention and the discard spells can usually keep them off Force of Will. If you put them on cards like Flusterstorm and Spell Pierce post board, then I can see cutting some number of crops due to the density of counters. Personally, I'd be more inclined to cut Into the North or NOTW over a couple of the Scryings. Finding a Steppe to push through an Insect or a waste effect with scrying can often swing games. NOTW is even less useful since your version is already coming close to cutting them off of free Submerges entirely.

I did a search over the last few pages and didn't find any mention/discussion of lost legacy. Has anyone tested this kind of effect? Surgical Extraction and hand disrupion are great but sometimes I wish i had a way to cranial extraction swords to plowshares and opposing surgical extractions (not just those, could be good at exracting flickerwisp, tendrils of agony, and whatever you suspect someone brining in to blow up your pithing needles so long as its not an artifact or land). Perhaps its too niche or the drawback of the opponent drawing a few cards is to steep, but if I extract the only card that makes me outrite lose, how much do i care about the cards my opponent draws anyway?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Djehuti

I did a search over the last few pages and didn't find any mention/discussion of lost legacy. Has anyone tested this kind of effect? Surgical Extraction and hand disrupion are great but sometimes I wish i had a way to cranial extraction swords to plowshares and opposing surgical extractions (not just those, could be good at exracting flickerwisp, tendrils of agony, and whatever you suspect someone brining in to blow up your pithing needles so long as its not an artifact or land). Perhaps its too niche or the drawback of the opponent drawing a few cards is to steep, but if I extract the only card that makes me outrite lose, how much do i care about the cards my opponent draws anyway?

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That seems pretty reasonable to me, although I'd be more inclined to name Terminus in the miracles match up.

Might test out lost legacy next week. First weekly I played this deck I steam rolled miracles on the back of landing chalice of the void turns 1, and 2 in games 2, and 3 respectively.

Third time I brought the deck to my local weekly in which I swapped chalices for spheres, I felt like the same miracles player dragged me out to the back alley and curb-stomped me. Feels bad, man.


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Why are all lists running Crucible of worlds instead of life from the loam? Loam has less cost and can do the same function

@VERTUK : Loam is counterable by Counterbalance, while we can potentially sneak Crucible down early before it comes down.



Regarding giant mana plan: I tried a boardplan of Emrakul, the Aeons Torn + Eye of Ugin + Cloudpost (copying it with Stages after fetching it out) and it worked okay. Gamestate really determines how safe you are - most times you need to assemble Stage + Depths and just sit there with it to constrict the Miracle deck's options. It did take up 3 slots in the sideboard and was just as vulnerable to Blood Moon. However, it is a plan you can try. Let's do math on the Coffers real quick, assuming you have Urborg out:

(Total lands including Urborg + Coffers: total mana)
3 lands: 3 mana
4 lands: 5 mana
5 lands: 7 mana
6 lands: 9 mana
7 lands: 11 mana
8 lands: 13 mana

Now let's assume one of the lands is Stage and you can copy it:

(Total lands including Urborg, Stage, and Coffers: total mana)
3 lands: 3 mana
4 lands: 6 mana
5 lands: 9 mana

At 6 lands are you in range of Emrakul, the Promised End. Promised End could be enough to win the game? So you need to resolve a land search for Coffers, have or search for Urborg, then land search for Eye. So 2-3 land searches while the Cloudpost plan would definitely require 4 - one for Eye and probably 3 for Cloudposts. Definitely willing to give Coffers + Promised End a shot, especially because Promised End is *theoretically* castable without one of the pieces. We typically make land, sorcery, instant, artifact, occaisionally creature or tribal. So it would cost 9 mana, potentially 7. That's doable on 5-6 lands, easier if one is a Stage.

This sounds like something I would LOVE to test. Takes up 3 sideboard slots though... I really hope it ends up being good. I'm going to test a few hands with it at some point.

Sounds like an interesting twist to the deck that I don't think most people would see coming. That being said I worry about eye or coffers being dead cards unless you happen to have the other, and emrakul is dead unless you have one of the other pieces. It feels too cute for me at first glance.


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I went 11-4 @ the GP after starting out 1-2. I ironically lost to burn piloted by a pro player in round 14 (knocked me out of money), but the deck felt STRONG. You'll see in my writeup that I was rarely gifted easy matchups, but the deck just powered through all sorts of bullshit.

Great to hear! You were one of 5 that made day 2! Congrats on your performance. How did the SB do? Did you find Crucible useful?


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Crucible was fucking awesome, but ironically as a piece of a GQ + crucible stripmine lock vs non-basic decks. I would've gone 13-2 if sphere was chalice, but alas, thats the way things go.

That was my impression. It just flat won me games especially with GQ. Looking forward to your report!


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by ComplexPants

That was my impression. It just flat won me games especially with GQ. Looking forward to your report!


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My report is in the tournament report section. I can put it here if you want?

Also, I worked on hammering out the miracles plan with Lossett (Crucible op), Storm w/ Togores (sphere>chalice), & infect with Rottman (sphere>chalice).

Thoughts on the Tournament Report:

Infect is an easy matchup. Might be a little harder for those of you still on Into the North instead of Expedition Map.

Burn is an easy matchup. Just don't bring in situational cards like Sphere of Resistance. Chalice itself is sketchy in the matchup, especially on the draw. If we get to do our thing and play around Price of Progress properly then the matchup is easy. I can understand losing to a pro though.

All in all, you played two hard matchups (Miracles x2) and beat it twice, so...hmmm. Your Surgical Extractions seemed critical to winning there. Very interesting because my testing indicates otherwise.

Surgical vs DELVER? What?

Great report. What were relevant uses for Sphere in your report? Would Chalice have prevented your plays?

DNS, are you better just being faster than Burn versus trying to prevent some damage?

I think it's worth looking at Grip as an Abrupt Decay alternative since there's a lot of blood moon running around. Castable off of Petal.

What is the consensus between Map and Scrying? Is there a consensus?

Lost Legacy has gotten thought experiments but I haven't seen any test results. And technically the card is a net -1 even if the opponent draws off of it, since they only draw as many cards as they discard.

Vs. Burn you block and then kill them.

Decay is more useful than Krosan Grip vs. Death and Taxes. I would not consider going under 4 as long as you have access to Verdant Catacombs and one of each basic.

Most land search packages are 4 Crop Rotation 4 Scrying 3 X, where X = Expedition Map or Into the North. I personally have found Expedition Map the best. Map can find any land, be it a combo piece or a utility land, while Into the North can ONLY find Dark Depths or a basic.

Lost Legacy is in the same boat as Surgical Extraction and would take those slots. Naming Tendrils of Agony seems good. However, it doesn't do anything against BR Reanimator, so I would run Surgical instead.

jdmdave, thanks for the awesome writeup on Reddit about how your tournament went. So much good information in there!


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JDmdave, congratulations on the nice finish.

Does anyone have some good advice how to beat Wipe Away? Sneak and Show is popular in my meta, and I keep running in to this card in PB games. Chalice on 3 is quite a stretch, is there anything better to be considered?

Pre-emptive Sejiri Steppe if you suspect they're just waiting for combat.

Otherwise, Steely Resolve on Avatar.

Would Noxious Revival have any use in here? Get back spent combo pieces, Surgical Protection, counteract Snapcaster-Swords or Terminus.