What about utilizing Stoneforge Mystic? The sword package Stephanie provides is good against both aggro and control. Though there's minimal creature in the deck, I think the deck can utilize it.
Also, Squadron Hawk + Scroll Rack anyone?
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What about utilizing Stoneforge Mystic? The sword package Stephanie provides is good against both aggro and control. Though there's minimal creature in the deck, I think the deck can utilize it.
Also, Squadron Hawk + Scroll Rack anyone?
Hawks are solid with humility and ensnaring bridge...well kinda.Quote:
Originally Posted by (nameless one)
Looking forward to see the list.Quote:
Originally Posted by Schulz
This is the list I ran for the GP.
Main Deck
4x Scrying Sheets
18x Snow-Covered Plains
4x Sensei's Divining Top
3x Painter's Servant
3x Grindstone
2x Isochrone Scepter
1x Pithing Needle
1x Decree of Justice
4x Orim's Chant
4x Enlightened Tutor
4x Swords to Plowshares
3x Wrath of God
2x Sun Titan
1x Gideon Jura
1x Runed Halo
1x Sacred Mesa
3x Oblivion Ring
1x Moat
1x Humility
Side Deck
1x Runed Halo
1x Tormod's Crypt
1x Relic of Progenitus
1x Humility
1x Ethersworn Canonist
3x Ray of Distortion
1x Rule of Law
4x Leyline of Sactity
2x Pithing Needle
Round 1
ANT
[B]Game 1:[/B] He picked it up after a turn 2 Chant Lock.
Game 2: I played a turn 2 Canonist. He plays a land and passes. I start beating in and play a Painter. He KGrippes the Canonist. I countiue swinging in with painter and play a Rule of law and a top. He plays a land and passes. I draw leyline and cast it. I top and see Land, Chant and Sun Titan. I build up my lands while getting in with Painter dropping him to 8 before I get my 7th land and cast Sun Titan returning Canonist. With Titan on the stack he bounces the Rule of Law and then lets the Canonist resolve but bounces that too. On his turn he starts to go off. I crack top and Chant. He scoops.
1-0
Round 2
Junk
Game 1: Turn 3 Mill
Game 2: I turn 2 Chant Lock until turn 5 mill
2-0
Round 3
Affinity
Game 1: We get deck checked. He receives a game lose for marked cards in his side deck
Game 2: He starts off with Ornithoper and mox opeal. I play land and pass. He plays nothing and passes his turn. I play land and pass. He plays Blinkmoth and Cranial Plating. Land pass again. He plays his whole hand. I play Land and Wrath. he swings in with Blinkmoth. I play Painter. He drops Ornithoper and Memnite. I sword them both draw Grindstone and mill him.
3-0
Round 4
Junk
Games 1 & 2: He Rapes my hands with Hymms and Thoughtseize killing me with big Knights.
3-1
Round 5:
Storm
This was actually one of the people I went up there with.
Game 1: He turn 1 makes 10 Goblins
Game 2: I'm looking at a turn 3 win with Leyline protection. He makes 12 Goblins and rippes and Echoing Truth for the win.
3-2
Round 6:
Big Zoo
Game 1: I land Humility and Moat but have to slow Grind him to win.
Game 2: I have to Mull to 5 to get any lands but his hand is to fast and he just beats face.
[B]Game 3:[/B] I get Humility and Moat down as he burns me down to 2. Now its a race for me to get my Painter before he gets a burn spell. I win the race and mill him out.
4-2
Round 7
Enchantress
Game 1: I turn 4 Mill while Chanting him on his turn so he can not do anything.
Games 2 & 3: He Locks me out of the game before I can do anything.
4-3
If you have any questions you're welcome to ask.
How did Sun Titan and Gideon perform for you? I noticed that on your report, they didn't even show up. Were they on your hand at a given time?
Against Junk/Rock, what did you side out. Usually, I'd side out Humility and Moat against them and rely on creature removal to deal with their creatures (StP, ORing, Halo, Wrath) and side in Leyline of Sanctity (Targeted discard is a backbreaker)
What exactly was your round 5 matchup? Was it TES or Belcher. While Belcher is faster and more explosive, I find that its easier to deal with Belcher with proper mulligan.
I know this is a really really really late suggestion but Powder Keg or Ratchet Bomb would have made a difference on the side (if you can turn 1 Tutor for it) on that match up.
I didn't see Gideon all day but Sun Titan was a big help round 1 and I feel that if I saw any blue decks that it would have been helpful.Quote:
Originally Posted by (nameless one)
I messed up on side boarding. I forgot to bring in the Leylines. but I like to keep in the Humility to slow him down and turn off creatures.Quote:
Originally Posted by (nameless one)
It was TES and he got the nuts both games.Quote:
Originally Posted by (nameless one)
Yes it would have helped in the match but oh well.Quote:
Originally Posted by (nameless one)
With the experience, any deck advice would you wanna give, especially with the post MM meta?
Also, any changes from your current list?
I got my Top Misstepped at least a dozen times yesterday (or so it felt).
My list:
//Land
4 Scrying Sheets
19 Snow-Covered Plains
//Win
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
1 Eternal Dragon
1 Genju of the Fields
2 Grindstone
2 Painter's Servant
//Control
2 Day of Judgment
4 Enlightened Tutor
2 Humility
2 Isochron Scepter
1 Lightmine Field
3 Oblivion Ring
3 Orim's Chant
1 Pithing Needle
2 Runed Halo
4 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Silence
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Wrath of God
//Sideboard:
4 Leyline of Sanctity
1 Oblivion Ring
1 Pithing Needle
2 Rule of Law
2 Silence
1 Story Circle
4 Tormod's Crypt
round 1 vs. WU SFM-Fish
SFM, Crusaders, SoFaI, Batterskull and at least 2 Missteps do me in twice.
0:2 -> 0/1/0
round 2 vs. UB Control
1st I kill Confidants, beat down a little with Genju and finally mill him out with Chant protection - MM got my top.
2nd Slow start while he gets online Confidant, Jace and CB+Top. No chance for me, he finishes me off just before time out.
1:1 -> 0/1/1
round 3 vs. Burn
1st I start and Chant lock him from turn 3 on. PoPs and a Shard Volley and first turn Sparky get me to 8. In response to me activating Grindstone, he casts double Fireblast... luckily I have a Soldier token and Swords
2nd I start with Leyline - he scoops.
2:0 -> 1/1/1
round 4 vs. LoamPox
1st Chant Lock -> Scoop. 1 Smallpox is all he did.
2nd he Vindicates a Scepter, Grips a stone and Sinkholes a Plains. I Swords a Kitchen Finks and put down another Stone+Painter without protection. (I was at 10 while he had two Finks and one land in his hand). He topdecks another land and scoops.
2:0 -> 2/1/1
round 5 vs. Quinn
We both don't want to play it out, so we ID
0:0 -> 2/1/2
round 6 vs. Goblins
1st Chant lock + 2 Swords win against 2 Ports + Ringleader + late Lackey.
2nd He has 1st Turn Vial and then Missteps my Top. Double Matron into Ringleader and Hooligan (on Scepter) plus a Warchief beat me to 1.
He offers a draw and I accept, because I'm tired.
1:1 -> 2/1/3
place 15 out of 35 - not overwhelmingly good, but it's okay
So, with MM in the mix, don't play Quinn, or play MM yourself. Most of our best spells cost 1 (Top, Sword, Chant, Grindstone, Needle and Tutor)
After some contemplation, I don't think Quinn would do bad in a post-MM meta. The meta has slowed, which Quinn has always asked before.
Yes the deck needs some revisioning but don't be too easy on bringing the deck down.
I'm the guy AlterEgo drew with in Round 5.
I'll do a quick report how my day went and maybe add some stuff later, when I have more time.
My list:
19 Snow-Covered Plains
4 Scrying Sheets
4 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Painter's Servant
2 Grindstone
2 Isochron Scepter
4 Orim's Chant
4 Enlightened Tutor
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Abeyance
3 Wrath of God
2 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
1 Eternal Dragon
1 Runed Halo
1 Pithing Needle
1 Moat
1 Humility
1 Sacred Mesa
3 Oblivion Ring
1 Runed Halo
4 Leyline of Sanctity
1 Humility
1 Path to Exile
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Wheel of Sun and Moon
2 Decree of Justice
1 Aura of Silence
1 Open the Vaults
2 Peacekeeper
Round 1: No Bant
I never saw a Natural Order but he had Green Sun Zenith and Dryad Arbor, so I assume the combo was somewhere in the deck.
First game he gets a slow start and I get Top and Swords countered but don't take too much damage. Fifth turn, he has two creatures out (Goyf and something else) and I try for Humility. It resolves surprisingly. Next turn he lays a creature so I take the three for one with a Wrath of God and close the game out the next turn with an Elspeth. Apparently he never drew a counter after using Misstep and Daze on my first two cards.
Second game is more of the same. We trade some one-for-one with removal for creatures or counters. At one point he grips my Moat. I have Open the Vaults in hand, so I tutor up Humility, bait a counter with it and resolve Open the Vaults on the following turn with protection, getting back Humility, Moat, Oblivion Ring and Runed Halo. Couple of turns later I find the combo and he scoops.
Round 2: Team America
The last time I played this guy, I was with Lands and he was with PainterStone. That was no fun.
He is very confused during the games. Apparently he hasn't played against Quinn before. First game he kills some of my lands with Sinkholes but never gets me below two Plains so I can still cast everything. I have three Scrying Sheets available so I find more lands quickly and he scoops after I find Mesa.
Second game he goes for second turn Hymn taking some meaningless stuff. I want to fish for a counter or a Grip and simply lay a Grindstone unprotected. It resolves and sticks. Two turns later he casts a second Hymn and my hand is Tutor, Swords, Abeyance. I think whatever, no risk no fun and respond to the Hymn with Tutor for Painter. I'm stuck on three mana so my next turn is simply casting Painter. He has no counter once again. On his turn though he manages to find a Pithing Needle after Ponder and Brainstorm which is about as unlikely as him having no counters at all, so I can't really complain but settle in for a long game of find the Ring. He can't build up any pressure because Quinn plays about two times as much removal as Team America plays creatures so even with counters it's not really close. While I find no Ring, I eventually find an Elspeth to close out the game.
Round 3: Uwg Intuition Thresh – not too sure about this one
Playing stuff like Goyf, Knight, Predator, Clique as his creature base along with a lot of counters, Jace and an Intuition toolbox including Cephalid Colseum.
First game I don't draw much of anything and after killing his first creatures I get pounded by a Knight. Highlight of the game was him using Coliseum and dumping two Swords to Plowshares because he as well didn't know what I was playing. When I stick a Painter the next turn his only comment was: „Now I feel dumb.“ Unfortunately the Painter was just as an emergency blocker to buy me a turn, having only lands in my hand, but it was fun nonetheless.
Second game is back and forth as usual against this kinds of deck. Removal for counters or creatures. Eventually I go for the combo with Abeyance protection. After the Abeyance resolves, he shows me his two Mental Missteps.
Third game goes to time. I have the board locked up with Moat and Humility and Runed Halo but I'm missing the second combo piece and don't have any protection either while he has Force, pitch card and Counterspell in hand.
Round 4: Wbr Stuff
Equipment, Mother of Runes, Bob, Mirran Crusader, Burn, Lavamancer, Vindicate, Wasteland and stuff. This time I'm confused by my opponents deck. I know I didn't play a lot in the last months, but I had no clue what to expect before I saw it.
First game I mulligan to six but Chant lock him third turn. He gets me to ten with a Lavamancer he had cast before though because I'm stuck on mana and can't remove the Lavamancer while keeping Chant up. Eventually I draw mana and he scoops.
Second game I get flooded. Top turns up three lands over and over again, even after shuffle effects. I run out of removal and die.
Third game he has two Hide/Seek (yup, didn't see that one coming) and one Vindicate to get rid of Moat and Humility, allowing his creatures to kill me.
Round 5: The mirror
Draw.
Round 6: Uw Caw-Blade I think
First game I only see Mishras and Jace alongside a truckload of counters, so I put him an UW Control. He has too many counters so his third Mishra kills me. I board accordingly.
Second game I combo him out. Still seeing only Jace, Mishra and now Squadron Hawk and therefor still thinking his deck is very controllish.
Third game I put some removal back in but still keep a very anti-control-like configuration. I get run over by Mirran Crusader and Batterskull.... I don't know if that was his board plan or if he simply didn't draw them in the first two games, but my boarding left me open to this.
Overall I was pretty happy with the deck, despite the lackluster performance. The boards should be changed probably, but I didn't have enough time before the tournament to think about that and I hadn't played a lot so I didn't know what to expect either.
Mental Misstep can be hard, but it is far from the death of the deck. You play a lot of 1-cc cards, but the deck can function fine without them. Swords can be harsh if it's a last ditch effort but otherwise you should have enough other removal to get there. Chant is the same as always, they need one more counter than you have Chant effects. Misstep didn't change much there. Getting Top countered is the worst I guess because it weakens your already situational draw engine and leaves you living of the top of your deck but you are redundant enough to survive that at least 50 % of the time. I mean I had Top countered, Needled and Griped before the printing of Misstep and you could work around it too.
Playing Misstep yourself it not the right answer I think. You do not have the possibility to pitch it to Force or shuffle it back with Brainstorm, so unless you have it at the right time, it's dead.
Misstep is a great argument for playing Abeyance over Silence though. Before I could see the point of playing Silence but now I think the different mana cost more then makes up for the lesser value in being a complete Time Walk.
A bigger problem for me at least has been Jace. If more and more decks play four Jaces, you will need more and more answers to that card, thus weakening your other match ups. Oblivion Ring, Needle and Halo are ok, but not great. They don't kill the damn thing and can be handled easily by a lot of cards the Jace decks play. (Grip, EE, bounce) I have not found a solution I like more though. Hex Parasite looks cute, but sucks with Humility and you need those against Bant and similar decks with creatures and Jace because you lose against Pridemage and Predator otherwise.
The deck needs some kind of recursion in my opinion. As Schulz said, Sun Titan can help and Open the Vaults gave me two wins. I don't know which is better or if there is something else that trumps both. I think more testing is needed here. Your opponent will have to invest a lot in killing your lock or combo pieces the first time. Getting a second use out of them is often too much for opponents decks. Those cards are also one more absolute must counter for blue decks which is very nice.
So I got back in to playing after a 10 year hiatus, and I don't feel like trying to catch up to standard, so legacy it is. Parfait was my favorite old deck, but I found land tax was banned...hmm. I find Quinn and it seemed the natural choice. Since I sold my italian moat for about a third of its value now 10 years ago, I achieve locks through scepter/chant, or humility/prayer(either of which can be good on its own, prayer makes me laugh at goblin tokens).
You'll notice there is no painter/stone kill; I play it more like parfait, take control and win with pegasi(probably too slow, but oh well). The millstones are obviously no grindstone, but can win games, plus it can't be MM'd. Neither can abeyance, which is why I included it over Silence. Plus I don't feel like shelling out for grindstones, and painters are vulnerable artifact creatures.
Isochron is my favorite card ever, there are so many cards in this deck that can be savage on it. I probably should run four. Also a shuffle effect besides tutor to go with digger would be nice. My sideboard is basically a pile.
17 snow covered Plains*
4 Scrying Sheets*
Artifacts:
3 sensei's divining top*
3 Isochron scepter*
1 Soldevi Digger
1 ivory tower
Instants/Sorceries
4 stp
4 enlightened tutor*
3 Abeyance*
3 Orim's Chant*
3 Argivian find*
1 wrath of god
Enchantments:
3 Aura of Silence*
3 oblivion ring*
2 humilty*
2 orims prayer*
1 Story Circle*
Win Conditions:
2 millstone
1 sacred mesa*
Sideboard:
4 runed halo*
3 disenchant
3 tormod's crypt*
2 story circle*
1 aura of silence*
1 wrath of god
1 leyline of sanctity*
Tell me why this is bad.
hahahahahahahahahahahahaha!Quote:
Originally Posted by scrubbysniff
Edit: This might just be funny to me due to the many times I've joked about milling someone out with grindstone after they've disposed of my painter's.
yeah, they're obsolete. i am not sure ill ever even have to do it, most rational people would scoop if i have a lock they can't get out of and a millstone on the board, though i guess we could take the 20 rounds or whatever :P
To save yourself from draw rounds, you might as well jump in the Grindstone/Painter's Servant bandwagon. Some people still use Sacred Mesa as their alternative win condition since it's Tutorable but I personally prefer Elspeth, Knight-Errant since once she lands, your opponent must answer it or she will win you the game.Quote:
Originally Posted by scrubbysniff
yeah, I know on some level I'm going to have to have a stronger win condition if I want to compete at all. I like Elspeth, but I like being able to tutor if I don't see it. i also just really like winning with pegasus tokens. Hell, if I use millstone I may as well stick a serra angel in there, if we're going with 1994 tech hehe.
Quote:
Originally Posted by scrubbysniff
Humility + Serra's Angel is a non-bo LOL.
Though I'm not sure if you're aware but due to M10 rules changes, Painter's Servant 'works' under an active Humility.
Yeah, have to lay the servant first though correct?And yeah I'm not gonna pack serra heat lol.
It doesn't have to it has something to do with rules layering.Quote:
Originally Posted by scrubbysniff
Basically before Humility changes Painter's Servant's ability into nothing, the color change from Servant has already occurred.
Oh cool, yeah I read up on it, basically you choose color while its still a spell on the stack, and humility doesn't affect it. I'd like to have a printout from a judge I can show people at tourneys hehe. So I made a few adjustments:
Lands:
18 snow covered Plains
4 Scrying Sheets
Artifacts:
3 sensei's divining top
3 Isochron scepter
2 grindstone
2 painter's servant
1 Soldevi Digger
Instants/Sorceries
4 stp
4 enlightened tutor
3 Abeyance
3 Orim's Chant
3 Argivian find
1 wrath of god
Enchantments:
2 Aura of Silence
2 oblivion ring
2 humilty
2 orim's prayer
1 Story Circle
1 sacred mesa
Sideboard:
3 tormod's crypt
2 disenchant
2 runed halo
2 story circle
2 aura of silence
2 wrath of god
1 leyline of sanctity
1 pithing needle
I don't like Leyline of Sanctity as a singleton in your side. I believe it's either a 4-of or don't bother running it. I know the deck runs E. Tutor but in the matchups you want it in, you want to have it in the field ASAP.
On a different not, has anyone seen this:
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...Reinforcements