Haha, thats funny that you mention Ichorid. I have my Ichorid deck together and did that last time I played in the local tournament (I'm in Florida on Vacation right now).
Oh, and yes they do play Keg and Engineered.
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Haha, thats funny that you mention Ichorid. I have my Ichorid deck together and did that last time I played in the local tournament (I'm in Florida on Vacation right now).
Oh, and yes they do play Keg and Engineered.
I thought that he was talking about ichorid deck jaja because ichorid card had no sense.Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperBean
In think that discard decks are terrible for us, hymn to tourach + sinkhole is awful. Is there any alternative?? I only run 2 duress in main deck and none in side....so...
That is what I was hoping for, a sideboard-able answer for decks like this. Because it's deck like this that I just can't seem to play through unless I will the dice roll and can combo out first turn.
The other reason I was looking for answer is because I am heavily considering playing T.E.S at the Grand Prix in Chicago and I know there will be plenty of Team America running around, as well as many Pox style decks. So finding a good answer would be great :smile:
Maybe the answer is land pass, chant in their upkeep and then combo off in t2. 1 turn is 1 turn. The big problem, i guess, is that in GP you 'll probably have no idea what your opponent is running so this option will work in game 2. I think that every deck has its bad pairing and maybe pox like decks are the ones for our TES (i'm not an expert, off course) so you will probably lose this match and win the others.
I also would not expect a good number of Pox decks in a GP.Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenCid
There will be Eva Green, Team America and some other Black Based aggro control, but I expect almost no pox (maybe 1-2 in te entire tournament).
Oh Pox will be played, every bad & suboptimal deck variant you can think of will be played...but if you get byes or survive the first two rounds then they will be irrelevant. And seriously, if you can't beat Clark Kant/Cavius/Radley player to player round 1 or 2, your chances in later rounds versus competent pilots aren't stellar anyway.
I agree with the above.. I'm sure there will be a huge variety of decks there. I fully expect Poxless-Pox to be played.
I never had problems against pox, the cantrips are gamewinning.
Etw 1st or 2nd turn is really good, even when they are playing Keg and/or EE.
You must take the risk, otherwise you wait to long and you'll lose more easily.
After a pox they're also low on life, so a tendrils for 4-5 usually does the job :wink:Quote:
Originally Posted by kroelai
There is always the off chance that you will be paired with a reasonably competent player, maybe even a good pro. It's not likely, but it could happen. At that point it will be a deck that you recognize though, so it might even be better.Quote:
Originally Posted by scrumdogg
Report and new list Here
Yeah, I was unsatisfied with the SSG in the deck too. You want them in the deck to have more initial mana sources for Ad Nauseam, but you could draw an average of 2.5 cards instead of them with the 3 life you lose with Ad Nauseam, so it's good without them. I first put some more duresses in the deck, but I after some testing 8 protection spells was too much, so I went with 3 duress and 4 ponders.
Did you like Mystical Tutor during the day?
I also noticed that the times you drew a Shusher it was blasted. Xantid Swarm was probably better in that meta. I'm actually considering dropping Shushers for Swarm, leaving the anti-counterbalance role to Blasts, duresses, and possibly Mystical Tutor->Wipe Away/Krosan Grip.
There was a lot of Counterbalance decks there, I was fortunate to only hit two. I am not comfortable with no Vexing Shusher against them, even with a target on his head for Blue blast, that's one less blast countering one of your red spells. For example against Threshold if he didn't blast Shusher, he would've blasted my blast. Then counterbalance would've resolved. Mystical Tutor was good at not killing me, unlike a 3rd Ad Nauseum. They were decent, I wouldn't say great or anything but they filled thier role nicely. I like being able to play a maindeck Chain of Vapor and Mystical allows this.Quote:
Originally Posted by GreenOne
Great!! This version makes me feel more sure against control and damage deck were nauseam was almost autokill...
Ive just started toying with playing this deck. And I have to say after playing the list you origionally had posted here on plage 1(post ad nauseam), I had the same feelings about spirit guide. Way too many times did that 3 damage make my nauseams suck, but guide is seriously underwhelming after turn 3 unless you need that mana source. Running mystical seemed like a good direction to go, the addition of chain of vapor is really really nice.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryant Cook
edit: playing the newer list, chain of vapor won me a game. Opponent casts harmonic sliver targetting my LED on their 2nd turn. I chain it back to my hand. Turn 2 i proceed to go, land, LED, dark rit, tutor, nauseam, and end up with a stom of 16 or so when I kill him with tendrils.. Awesome
Why would you play LED out turn 1? Seems like a poor choice with that hand.Quote:
Originally Posted by bruenor
he was running thoughtseize/ cabal therapy. This was game 2.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryant Cook
I posted this on the Storm Boards so I might as well post here as well. Alright, it feels good to finally have a good finish with combo. My meta is still infested with Counterbalance but I have gotten to the point where I just don't care and want to play combo more. At my local tournament last night I went 4-1 to a top 4 split; there were 28 people there. This is the list I took:
4x LED
2x Ponder
1x Echoing Truth
1x Tendrils
4x Orim's Chant
4x Cabal Ritual
4x Brainstorm
3x Burning Wish
2x Mystical Tutor
1x IGG
3x Infernal Tutor
4x Rite of Flame
2x Ad Nauseam
3x Chrome Mox
4x Lotus Petal
2x Simian Spirit Guide
4x Dark Ritual
4x Forbidden Orchard
4x Gemstone Mine
4x City of Brass
SB
1x IGG
1x Diminishing Returns
1x Empty the Warrens
1x Tendrils of Agony
1x Grapeshot
2x Xantid Swarm
2x Slaughter Pact
3x Pyroblast
3x Shattering Spree
I really like the additional 2 lands. I feel that 12 makes the deck a lot more resilient to turn 1 Wasteland. When I was testing the deck out I had 3x Mystical Tutor and it was just to many because on occassion they can just clog up your hand and times were bad. After seeing Bryant's list on the source where he runs 2 I decided that was the correct number and I really like it. I still love SSG in the deck, especially when comboing out on turn 2 when I have already played a land, the initial mana sources that aren't Chrome Mox and Mox Diamond are awesome. Here is a short tournament report on how the overall matchups went and concepts that I think need a little discussion:
Round 1: BG Disruption w/ Hymn, Thoughtseize, Sinkhole, Deed, etc. (not Eva Green)
2-1
Wasteland can be a problem in this matchup. Sometimes it can really set you back. Mystical Tutor was key here. I was able to drop LED(s) into play with Tutor in hand and not worry about any kind of land destruction of hand destruction and since his deck has no clock it gives me time to setup. However, Deed is a serious problem and if your draw isn't fast enough it can really fuck you up.
Round 2: R/W Goblins
1-2
Wasteland owned me in games 2 and 3. This matchup should be a bye. I destroyed him game 1 on turn 3 and then saw a TOTAL of 3x initial mana sources over the next 2 games, hell, even SSG would have won me game 2, but triple Piledriver on turn 5 said otherwise. I mulled to 6 both times and couldn't find additional lands, Petals, or Moxen, it was horrible luck.
Round 3: U/G/r Thrash
2-1
This matchup is fucking hard. Stifle, Spell Snare, BURN (so you can't go nuts and will punish bad AdN reveals), FoW, Wasteland, Daze, and Blue Blast after SB. Xantid Swarm was SO key here. Had it been Shusher I would have lost. I won game 3 since he could not draw an answer to the Swarm (he had Stifle, FoW, BEB and something else in hand). My deck was laughing at me for a while (mull to 6) but eventually I drew into something relevent and went off. I really think this is the proper SB in this matchup with my build:
-2 Rite of Flame
-1 Cabal Ritual
-1 Ponder
-1 Echoing Truth
+3 Pyroblast
+2 Swarm
It can be tough playing against BEB so I think minimizing exposure to it by taking out Rite of Flame is a good idea, but not cutting all of them since you still need red mana and it is nice to have extra red cards to imprint on Chrome Mox. I would never cut SSG since it allows you to Pyroblast on turn 2 (on the draw) with an answer to Daze. Seriously I can't say enough good things about the card. BEB is so prominent in my meta I think it makes the cut over Shusher and it requires a lot less mana to make it work!
Round 4: U/W/g/b Jace Landstill
2-0
Maybe my opponent just had bad hands but this matchup seems really easy. Orim's Chant was pretty spectacular here. I don't think they have enough counters to really STOP storm cold. After SB Shushers and Swarms are just pointless so I can't see either of them being sided in against these decks since all they have are creature destruction spells and that just gives you two dead draws. I understand the argument of "well they first have to answer it" but they will, between Swords, Edict, Deed, and Smothers it just seems horrible.
Round 5: Enchantress
2-1
Not the easy matchup I thought it was. But after the games I was talking to my opponent and he told me he never had the crazy stupid fast draws that he did against me so I guess it is usually easier against "normal" draws. He started off with Utopia Sprawl turn 1, turn 2 Enchantress effect, turn 3 lock spell. Chant also owns this matchup since it basically just shuts them down; I mean, Timewalk is good right? But he also played SB Rule of Law and that was a nightmare. I still don't think Cleanfall is needed in the SB since this matchup is not prevalent at all. But this matchup would be almost unwinnable for them if Cleanfall was there. And if the game goes a while, Sterling Grove fucking sucks. Overall I think it is a very winnable matchup and a turn 1 IGG (semi-Mindtwist) REALLY hurts them. That is how I won game 3.
Overall I was very impressed with the consistency of the deck and in particular I LOVE the fact that this deck does not have to rely on Ad Nauseam to win but still has the option. Maybe half the wins were Ad Nauseam based. Xantid Swarm was spectacular. The only thing I would change to the build is in the SB but thats all meta dependent. I really want an additional Swarm in there but for now I would leave it alone.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pulp_Fiction
The deck looks pretty good. I would only change the following in the main deck and sideboard. I'm not a fan of running less than 4 infernal tutors or burning wishes b/c you need to find them. I guess the mystical tutors help, but would still like the 8 tutors in the deck.
Main Deck
-2 SSG
-1 Echoing Truth
+1 Chrome Mox
+1 Ponder
+1 Chain of Vapor
SB
-2 Pact
-2 Swarm
+1 Wipe Away
+2 Shusher
+1 Duress/Bounce Spell (Your Choice)
Quote:
Originally Posted by nickrit2000
I also suggest running chain of vapor. It has proven itself to be amazing. After casting nauseam bouncing back chrome moxes so you can replay and retap for mana/ storm has been crucial for me in several games so far. 4 chrome mox is a necessity if you want to be comfortable with nauseam.