[Deck] Death and Taxes

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Originally Posted by iatee

Taking out Sanctum Prelate vs RUG Delver is nuts. A good percentage of the time you resolve it and the game is over on the spot. Your hand will likely be out of removal by turn 3 and that means you'll be drawing dead something like 1/8 draws, whereas the majority of their deck is a poor draw from that spot - without cantrips to sequence perfectly, their deck draws terribly - 1 drops aren't their only bad draws at that point, counterspells and extra lands are also terrible from that point on. Playing against RUG Delver when they can't cast Lightning Bolt is playing a video game on easy mode.

The only really bad time to cast Prelate is if they have a fast Delver and you haven't found removal yet. And in that case you just don't cast it. Their green creatures are always manageable, even more when you can safely block with Mom and have a million turns to work with.

I take out Revokers, Recruiters and (in RW) Pia/Kiran. This is the classic 'Recruiter is too slow' matchup, and Stifle means they can even let you waste your turn on it.

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I should probably explicitly state to cut Recruiter. It seems obvious to me, but you know... I'll make that change now.

As far as Prelate goes, thanks for writing a counter-argument. If a bunch of people end up feeling similarly, I'll add a more in-depth discussion about the pros and cons of it.

I'm not sure Prelate is as good in game 2 when you're more likely to see things like Abrade and Sudden Demise, but it is a lot harder to find those cards when all the cantrips are turned off. My big concern with Prelate is that it's really bad when you're behind. Since they lose most of their offense to RiP, and you have such powerful effects to win the long game with things like Brightling, is it more important to have another closer card like Prelate or more access to removal in order to catch up?

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Originally Posted by hill_giant

Why is he scoffing at the idea of having brought in pithing needle? That card is great against us.

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I was scoffing at myself, kicking myself for not having thought of bringing it in before getting completely demolished.

D&T showing up big at the Pro Tour, but no one's playing brightling. I'm surprised to see no brightlings based on what everyone else says about the card (even though I virtually never draw it in a situation where it's relevantly better than mirran crusader, I thought the consensus was that it's great). I'm also surprised to see double maindeck palace jailer in Carvalho's list.

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Originally Posted by hill_giant

D&T showing up big at the Pro Tour, but no one's playing brightling. I'm surprised to see no brightlings based on what everyone else says about the card (even though I virtually never draw it in a situation where it's relevantly better than mirran crusader, I thought the consensus was that it's great). I'm also surprised to see double maindeck palace jailer in Carvalho's list.

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He probably cut the Hornet Queen from his list /s

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Originally Posted by hill_giant

D&T showing up big at the Pro Tour, but no one's playing brightling. I'm surprised to see no brightlings based on what everyone else says about the card (even though I virtually never draw it in a situation where it's relevantly better than mirran crusader, I thought the consensus was that it's great). I'm also surprised to see double maindeck palace jailer in Carvalho's list.

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Objectively speaking, Brightling is great, but remember that the Pro Tour is a very different sort of event than a normal GP or Open (the team element also contributes to this more than normal). Most players at the PT are probably gunning to beat the top couple of decks, which is very viable, as there will be much less "random jank" that you have to play through. If it was common knowledge among their circles that Shadow and Grixis Control were two of the big decks to beat, then I can totally see not play Brightling. If, on the other hand, their testing showed that RUG Delver and Miracles were the top dogs, then Brightling is a no-brainer.

There are a ton of really weird decisions in the deckbuilding of these lists that are likely the results of trying to angle shoot portions of the metagame. I'll do a breakdown of the lists and my thoughts on them on Monday's stream.

Allen has a brilliant piece of sideboard mirror tech in Walking Ballista.

DNT vs UB Shadow in semi's went to game 5.

Not sure I agreed with Caravalo's keep in G5 but he still had a nice game. Seems like he brought in all his 2/2's to avoid getting Dread'd out (Wrapter had 3 in his board I guess) but I wonder what he cut?

So with multiple players in my meta building death's shadow and the deck gaining in popularity as a "cheaper" legacy deck, what's everyones opinion on the matchup? Plow looks pretty strong as well as prelate.

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Originally Posted by cursecatcher

Allen has a brilliant piece of sideboard mirror tech in Walking Ballista.

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I've tried it out before. It's pretty good against stuff like strix specifically. Occasionally a finisher; not vial-friendly obv. Probably pretty good for that specific event, it looks like.

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Originally Posted by Kogar15

So with multiple players in my meta building death's shadow and the deck gaining in popularity as a "cheaper" legacy deck, what's everyones opinion on the matchup? Plow looks pretty strong as well as prelate.

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The matchup is generally pretty great. There's a reason that wrapter has three copies of dread of night in his board. That's a lot of slots to devote to cards that only come in for one matchup, but they're necessary because the matchup is so difficult for them otherwise. If dread of night catches on like that, we'll have to adapt to it, but by default, it's a good matchup for us.

Alright! D&T!

Pro Tour Champion!!!

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Originally Posted by hill_giant

D&T showing up big at the Pro Tour, but no one's playing brightling. I'm surprised to see no brightlings based on what everyone else says about the card (even though I virtually never draw it in a situation where it's relevantly better than mirran crusader, I thought the consensus was that it's great). I'm also surprised to see double maindeck palace jailer in Carvalho's list.

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I am not surprised to see a lack of blightling's as I have always felt the deck functions much better following a mana denial strategy and if ub shadow picks up steam after it's strong showing lately miran crusader would objectively be better in the matchup. I tend to think blightling is overhyped by people who wish to see it succeed (finance spikes?). Also, running an EE in sb to counter dread of nights as well as having play versus storm is an appealing consideration.

Seems like that the pros are not big fans of generic beaters if youre looking at the two top 4 DnT Lists. Sure Carvalho plays 2 Avenger but it looks like they like their utility creatures better. Imo its important to have 2-3 Beaters in your 75 because sometimes you just need raw power. Would be interesting to know why the DnT players choose those lists for such an event!

Given the similarity in many DnT lists and the specific cards selected, it was clear that a lot of people anticipated a metagame heavy in black, especially DS, Strix, and Reanimate, plus probably some SnT components as well. Brightling is great in metas dominated by white and red, but less so against black. I like my Brightlings, but I'd also be back on more Crusaders and Jailers if I was confident I was up against that.

The way we handle Dread of Night is the same way we always have: a variety of threats, some of which resist by virtue of being non-white or of higher toughness, as well as enchantment removal. A lot anti-enchantment effects are also justifiable as an answer to artifacts. I will definitely be considering boosting these effects long before I even think about something like EE, which seems really silly as an answer to this specific threat.

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Originally Posted by Lord Darkview

Given the similarity in many DnT lists and the specific cards selected, it was clear that a lot of people anticipated a metagame heavy in black, especially DS, Strix, and Reanimate, plus probably some SnT components as well. Brightling is great in metas dominated by white and red, but less so against black. I like my Brightlings, but I'd also be back on more Crusaders and Jailers if I was confident I was up against that.

The way we handle Dread of Night is the same way we always have: a variety of threats, some of which resist by virtue of being non-white or of higher toughness, as well as enchantment removal. A lot anti-enchantment effects are also justifiable as an answer to artifacts. I will definitely be considering boosting these effects long before I even think about something like EE, which seems really silly as an answer to this specific threat.

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Don't forget CJudge and RelicWarder take care of DoN too; and we already have them in our board... Wrapter's 3 in sideboard is a little worrisome but with the standard 2 I still feel pretty safe making no changes.

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Originally Posted by AsmodeusDM

Don't forget CJudge and RelicWarder take care of DoN too; and we already have them in our board... Wrapter's 3 in sideboard is a little worrisome but with the standard 2 I still feel pretty safe making no changes.

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Yeah seeing 3 dreads in play at once was making me thik of a sweeper effect, racket bomb being more feasible. UB shadow and grixis delver were the best performing decks at the PT, likely to shift locals metas. And dnt may have painted a targwt on it's back with 2 in top 4, something to consider that more dedicated hate may be seen moving forward.

I've always been pretty high on Blessed Alliance and if UBx Shadow is the real deal, then people should consider playing at least one in their sideboard. Good for all reasons it was good before (destroys an attacking TNN, Dark Depths, equipped creature, etc.), but now you can target your opponent to gain 4 life and shrink/destroy all their Death's Shadows.

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Originally Posted by NeckBird

I've always been pretty high on Blessed Alliance and if UBx Shadow is the real deal, then people should consider playing at least one in their sideboard. Good for all reasons it was good before (destroys an attacking TNN, Dark Depths, equipped creature, etc.), but now you can target your opponent to gain 4 life and shrink/destroy all their Death's Shadows.

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Okay, that's a pretty great interaction. I don't know how often it would come up, but it's super cool. TIL.

Is it bad to play 2 Relic Wardens on the sideboard? Besides the rise of DoN, it's also useful against the mirror, Eldrazi and Sneak Show.