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I am adding that as soon as I get one in the mail. It's still just a 1-of that you have to find in time. To me, it seems like you only have a limited time window to find what you need. And thats between turn 2 and 4. In other words winning is mostly based on being a tad lucky!Quote:
Originally Posted by CutthroatCasual
Well the slot is a flex slot usually filled by either a Spell Pierce or Spell Snare, and usually to deal with surprise spells (i.e. MD Sylvan Library or Chalice of the Void). However, they're useless once those spells resolve, whereas EE is almost never a dead topdeck.Quote:
Originally Posted by kentheide
Played Mackan's list in my local FNM last friday to a 3-0 finish beating pyromancer-delver, maverick and stoneblade.
Switched from Joe Losset's iteration of the deck to this because I had some bad beats on a GPT earlier and I felt Mackan's list would suit my style of play better. I really like the legends version of the deck but I feel winning the mirror has become less relevant and I was very dissapointed with the performance of clique in the current meta.
What I hope to test before the GP is the Nahiri kill since I was not that happy with the entreats (although again I felt that this was more due to how I play and not because of the power level of entreat) and would probably cut both entreats and a Jace for 2 Nahiri and an Emmy.
I also played a different sideboard and 1 experimental slot was good old Keranos and that thing really made me happy. Even flipping blindly it just gave me so much advantage (either shooting the small critters of the maverick deck and otherwise digging for plow/terminus. I thought it would be too fancy and too expensive but I have to reconsider. It also helped me close out a game much faster when I had sufficient devotion and could beat for 8 (with a snap) instead of 2.
Remember what that article from Andrea: Karakas is a card you'll run into a lot to have Nahiri-kul be your only creature win con. It's good to diversify your threats but not at the expense of the deck's effectiveness.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reagens
Whats the meta like at where you play? I feel like being able to do well nowadays is extremely dependant on what match-ups you get.
Meta is pretty random in the sense that most people attending the FNM's are pretty much able to play/build any deck they want.Quote:
Originally Posted by kentheide
Match-ups are an important part of the equasion although it would seem odd to think that people like Julian Knab/Joe Losset and others do well at pretty much any event they enter so skill is very important as well.
I agree, but there hasn't been any big Legacy events (except BoM which Eldrazi won) after this new shift in the meta. BoM had a miracles list in top8, but I would be curious to know what match-ups he played through-out the day. He lost to Eldrazi in the finals. Also online more and more decks that can beat Eldrazi is turning up and the bad part about that is that those match-ups are in addition to Eldrazi not very favoured for Miracles either.Quote:
Originally Posted by Reagens
I am predicting we will see some heavy changes to the archetype in the coming months.
Do u tuya like nahiri
.?
I was testing Minniehajj's list with a buddy who was playing Shardless BUG. In the as of yet undefined SB slot I tried a From the Ashes and I had a Clique over one of the 4 REBs and a Containment Priest over a 3rd Flusterstorm because I don't own #3.
We played 2 preboard and 3 post board games. I boarded -4 FOW, -3 Counterbalance, -1 Swords to Plowshares and +3 REB, +1 From the Ashes, +2 Wear // Tear, +2 Flusterstorm.
The games went about even (which I feel is a personal victory because I had yet to beat Shardless). I noted that every time I was able to cast From the Ashes that the game was in my favor. EE was pretty good at getting rid of late lilianas and I was able to search well enough that once the game had progressed to a certain point I was advantaged.
What do you guys think? Were there better boarding options available?
I would never board clique vs them and neither would I board flusterstorm (too narrow). From the ashes is interesting but probably too cute. Siding out removal seems odd.Quote:
Originally Posted by Misersoneof
I would however keep the counterbalances and board the extra mentor and predict.
So in the end something like:
- 4 force of will
- 2 ponder
- 1 counterspell
+3 REB
+2 wear/tear
+1 predict
+1 monastery mentor
Although I might be wrong with predict/ponder.
Counterbalance should be kept in since they only have abrupt decay as a sure answer and since you are playing mentors anyway you might as well try and overload on their decays.
Flusterstorm feels like a bad bring-in vs a deck that is primarily creatures and planeswalkersQuote:
Originally Posted by Misersoneof
Your cuts feel fine. CB is not something you want to keep in this MU.
Most of this is wrong. If you have clique you should usually bring it in vs shardless to act as disruption and pressure vs their planeswalkers, because that's their primary way of beating us. You shouldn't keep in CB even if you are trying to overload Decay because the monks are the real clock, along with Card Advantage from Predict being the best way to get an advantage for us.Quote:
Originally Posted by Reagens
Also, CB is awful vs the deck in general due to their flat mana curve. I wouldn't board in more than 1 wear//tear because you don't need it. If they needle top or null rod you, you can simply utilize predict in order to gain card advantage, essentially ignoring whatever nonsense hate they have. I'd also never ever ever cut Ponder vs them, Ponder is one of the primary ways of setting up Predict through any Top hate, and you absolutely need that. From the Ashes is fine and all, but you really don't need any nonbasic land hate, the main plan of your deck should be enough to make Shardless an almost easy matchup. Collectively, those in our group during the MTGO Legacy Challenge last week went 14-0 vs Shardless, and matches weren't very close. Predict is THAT good.
With your sideboard, I'd board out -4 FoW, -3 CB, -1 Plow, Add in +3 REB, +1 clique, +1 Wear//Tear, +1 Snapcaster, +1 Mentor, +1 Predict.Quote:
Originally Posted by Misersoneof
Yep, I have to agree with Minniehajj - Clique is actually pretty good vs Shardless, Counterbalance is mediocre. Flusterstorm is not great, Predict lets you recover from Hymn or Thoughtseize, and you aren't really Flusterstorming anything else.
I do bring in From the Ashes at the moment, but I don't have an additional threat like a Mentor in my sideboard right now, so it serves that role which I think is fine.
Edit - I do like 1 Wear/Tear (Council's Judgment / EE are both better though depending on what you have available) to deal with Sylvan Library moreso than Top hate - we can play through / around Needle or Null Rod pretty easily.
Flusterstorm is the best answer against hymn to tourach and some versions of shardless use it. And i would never side out any creature removal.
Starting from last Cadei's list (http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=12187&d=270025&f=LE) i would sb in:
1 Blood Moon
0-2 Flusterstorm
1-3 Red Elemental Blast
3 Vendilion Clique
1 Wear / Tear
0-1 rip
and sb out: 4 fow 4 cb and one land.
(actually, my list runs 1 pithing needle, that i also bring on).
This is all fine and dandy, but he's talking about the Predict build I posted specifically, and predict changes the matchup considerably. You no longer care about Hymn in the slightest, so you don't need to bother with bringing in Flusterstorm, you can board out 1 plow since all you're going to want to kill are Goyfs and Shamans, the rest will be dealt with incidentally.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stefanogs
Hey everyone, been lurking on this thread for a couple of months on and off now and have been playing miracles since January 2015. Can anyone break down the specific pros and cons of a traditional 4-ponder only builds vs. the relatively new hotness that are the predict builds?
I'll give it a shot.Quote:
Originally Posted by snailster
-- predictable miracles
Miracles decks are traditionally made up of two components. There are white cards and blue cards.
The blue cards are fantastic at drawing you more cards and answering your opponent on the stack. Things like countermagic, cantrips, Jace, and Snapcaster mage.
The white cards are fantastic at removing your opponent's creature-based threats, as well as giving you a way to win the game via things like Entreat the Angels, Monastery Mentor, or Stoneforge Mystic.
Whenever you approach a given matchup, a lot of the time one side of this spectrum is going to outclass the other side. Easy examples are things like the Mirror, Combo, and vs. Stompy decks like Eldrazi.
Predict allows several things with this in mind:
1) It allows us to permanently filter away cards we don't want to see in a given match-up, at instant speed, with a huge payoff of getting two new cards.
2) It allows us to clear the top of our deck to allow us to continue digging for the exact cards we want in a given matchup.
3) It allows us to gain incremental value off of a naked Counterbalance, allowing us to clear cruft and give us another shot at a blind flip
4) It allows us to continue searching through and filtering our deck in the face of a resolved Chalice of the Void
5) It allows us to clear our opponent's flipped top or otherwise known card in the mirror.
The builds I have been playing recently go as far as cutting the 21st land and running 2-3 predicts.
Doing this gives a few other benefits:
1) We see more spells over the course of a long game.
2) Our deck is slimmer, and able to interact more easily with the opponent.
3) In general, it feels like there's more consistency and less clunk.
However there are some downsides. This version is less powerful than the 21 land build. Due to the uptick in cantrips there have been games where I've died because the only cards I seem to be able to find are cantrips and lands. This deck also plays fairly differently than other versions of miracles, and a slightly different, perhaps more aggressive approach is necessary when it comes to casting your cantrips.
-- 4-ponder miracles
4 ponder miracles traditionally runs 21 lands these days. Back around GP Lille, it was run with 20 but that was because dig through time was a mainstay in the format and well... legal. Now that dig is out of the format the classic ovino list is a traditional start-point for this list.
Because of the 21st land, it is easier to get away with 2 plains plus 3 volcanic islands for red sources, whereas the 20L builds need to either run a basic mountain or a second volcanic. So, your manabase is going to be more stable. However, due to the decrease in number of filtering cards, you are bound to see a lot more of the side of the deck that you do not want to.
You do get to play the more "powerful" deck, though I'd venture that it is slightly less consistent. The addition of multiple entreat the angels, which is something that the 20L builds can't really afford to run, give your deck more inevitability vs. other midrange and control decks like Shardless BUG.
So, the benefits I see are:
1) More resilient to wasteland and port with respect to white mana
2) Gets to play more powerful cards, or more copies of powerful cards.
3) Cantrips are not as necessary to find lands in as many games.
----
If I were to go to a GP tomorrow, I'd go with a Predict based build, if only due to the number of reps I've put in with them.
This has to be the newest tech... perhaps bigger than predict.
http://media-dominaria.cursecdn.com/...1918631775.png
Horrible looking tops that only come in 3 languages, and might have the bad foiling process? Ugh.Quote:
Originally Posted by twndomn
They definitely have the regular pack foil process, not the FTV or MM ones.Quote:
Originally Posted by alphastryk