[Deck] Imperial Painter

I tested a version that played gamble alongside recruiter and welder with decent success. It was obviously more combo oriented but I really hated not finding grindstone fast enough because even with a painter some decks were able to rebuild because all we're doing is 1 for 1ing them. Granted that doesn't happen often but its sooo disheartening when it does.

How is koth working? I never thought to try him but he seems pretty solid. Also, Jace sounds awesome but I wouldn't know what to cut for him. Jaya maybe?

As a side note why doesn't u/r painter play recruiter? He's just so awesome.

I was finally able to test an idea this weekend that I’ve been thinking about for a few weeks now: MM in Mono-Red Imperial Painter. That’s right, I’m infecting this thread with Misstepmania. Here’s the thing: I think MM is awesome in this deck.

Proxy-testing before the release was promising and I went undefeated Saturday (5-0) to split in the finals at my local tournament. My friend, David, and I also ran several test matches yesterday against Junk and the results favored me. That’s the first time I’ve ever had consistent wins against David playing Junk and MM played a significant role countering Discard, STP and Top (the Ensnaring Bridge SB plan helps a lot too). This is the list I played:

4 Tomb
4 City
9 Mountain
3 Fetch

2 Mox
4 SSG

4 Top
4 Recruiter

4 Servant
2 Jaya
5 Blast
4 Grindstone

3 Magus
3 Moon

3 MM
1 Revoker
1 Dragonlord

SB
4 Ensnaring Bridge
3 Ratchet Bomb
3 Lightning Bolt
1 MM
1 Macabre
1 Revoker
1 Metamorph
1 Blast

Now I’m not going to claim anything totally conclusive from a couple of weeks of testing and one local tourney, but MM has been impressive. It provides critical moment protection against spells like STP, Path, Lightning Bolt, and early counters against Thoughtsieze/Inquisition/Duress, Hierarch, Vial, Lackey and Dark Ritual.

The three biggest plays I think Imperial Painter gains from MM are a free response to removal when activating Grindstone, a free response to a floated white mana STP/Path after you play Magus, and protection from discard (first turn especially) so that you can keep your Moon/Magus or combo pieces. Beyond that, our first turn matchup against combo gets a boost and we still get an answer to some aggro-ish problems like Lackey and Hierarch.

Of course MM’s lack of a mana requirement makes it powerful in the early game, but it also seems to work extremely well later in the game with Sensei’s Top because when assembling the combo you can keep an MM on top of your library just in case you need to counter any 1 cc removal.

Speaking of Tops, I like 4. I had been thinking about it for a while, but only recently in an effort to improve the Junk matchup did I actually start testing a full set. Despite the occasional double Top in my opening hand, the increased assurance of finding and resolving a Top before running out of gas has been more than worth it to me so far.

Also of note, the Ensnaring Bridge plan out of the board has worked very well and Phyrexian Metamorph is a pretty cool toy. In my first match on Saturday I boarded Metamorph in against Eva Green and found myself in a position where I had a bunch of land, a Recruiter, a Servant, and a Grindstone in play with Metamorph in hand, while facing down a Goyf and Tombstalker and a Null Rod shutting down my combo. I was about to play the Metamorph naming Tombstalker to buy some time but luckily realized I could name Recruiter instead. So I named Recruiter, fetched Jaya and played her, chump blocked the Goyf to survive a turn while taking 5 in the air, and then Jaya’d the Null Rod and got the combo win. That Metamorph is a tricky little bastard.

Drew congrats on the finish. I have also had a lot of recent success with the deck. this past weekend I again went X-1-1 with my build. I like what you did with the deck. I have not found MM to be a problem , but I really never thought of using it in the main. I'm happy metamorph has worked out for you. When I saw that card I knew it was bound to be a good one of.

About my last tournament. In the first round I was paired against Merfolk sporting MM. Game one I dropped Imperial recruiter for Painter and then two turns later I played Grindstone with REB back up and his FoW was not able to get there. I boarded in another pyroblast and took out a Moon effect. In game two I dropped first turn Grindstone. He had Cursecatcher in play and then drops second turn standstill. I draw Painter and say fuck it and break Standstill with mana floating in case of daze. He draws 2 MM and a wasteland. He is able to hit my sol land and we play draw go for a bit and he resolves a few Merfolk. I eventually find the mana and the game is over. Round two saw me paired down which basically meant I could not draw in, and I should have known this. I played against Team Italia and I have to say the deck isn't that good. Why play white control without Swords. Game one is very slow. I have lots of land. Eventually Painters keep him off of equiping Swords and SSG do a great impression of being a creature as I slowly take his life total down. Eventually he gets an active jitte with two counters and I topdeck the Grindstone for the win. Game two is rather anticlimatic as i drop a first turn Blood Moon. He plays a Grim Lavamancer, but can't keep the yard stocked and I slow roll the combo. Round three I loss to Tendrals. It happens, I think i kept a bad hand second game, but I had already mulled to 5 and two thoughtseizes where able to rip it to pieces. Round four I played against affinity. He did stupid stuff like empty his hand on the second turn and I said out and did dumber things by grinding him out with SSG as mana. Game two he dropped a second turn Revoker and thought he was safe. I had the REB in hand and tutored up Painter, using SSG I blasted the Revoker and milled him after he again emptied his hand on the second turn with some big artifacts staring me down. I have to say the affinity deck may be for real, but it loses hard to combo. The next round I'm paired with Paul(Starcitygames Bmore winner) with his merfolk list. i have never lost to him but he is my friend. I opt for the draw thinking we both make top 8. we didn't I got 9th due to getting paired down. Oh well, the top 8 had two combo, two counterbalance, two merfolk and one BUG at least.

The deck continues to be really strong. I'm not sure the Show and Tell sideboard plan is really needed anymore as zoo is almost completely absent and that was the main reason to bring it in. It does help the junk match up, but I like what Drew has found with MM in that matchup. I am not happy with my combo match up to be honest. Although I'm not sure how to fix it. MM will help and I am testing some other options if I decide to go with a splash.

@Drew with your new list how do you feel about combo. I guess we should make the distinction between those with and without Burning Wish.

Seth

So I did some testing with Mental Misstep last night against BUG, dreadstill(B/U), Ari Lax tendrils, and goblins. I have to say the card is strong. I haven't tested pure junk yet, but the dreadstilll list I used had ghastly demise and a stable manabase so the results should be similar. I had to cut 2 FoD and both Koths which broke my eart. currently I am running 3 maindecked with an additiona Goblin Welder as he helps beat MM and still keeps the ways of beating lackey.

I am still trying out some ways to improve the combo match up but the MM helps far more than I thought it would as it helps stop thoughtsieze and durress making it easier to combo off. I'll be playing in two events this weekend so I will give updates of my final list and some results.

Seth

While I went 1-3 in Charlotte with Painter and was very frustrated with the deck when discussing Mental Misstep I fell in love again. I am glad to see the forum's feelings are with me. Although I always ran blast heavy I think I may continue to and still add MM.

In Charlotte it was Zoo (won game one, drew 6 str8 lands game 2, game 3 mulled to 4 and almost pulled it off, Burn (WTF), Ctop Thopter (won), 4 color Scepter Chant (you gotta be kidding right)

I love Figure as well but maybe Dragon Lord may be better now. If I go to Providence I am pretty sure I am Painting.

Seth, I think the overall combo matchup is better now even though I don’t have Trinisphere anymore. I played TES last weekend and won easily, but that was because I had a turn 1 Magus on the play in game one and he gave me three turns in the second game to assemble Painter + Blasts. Nonetheless, now you get 4 pieces of disruption that don't require you to have three mana on turn 1. In fact, they don't even require you to have a turn 1.

One thing I’m changing in my SB that should help Combo a bit more is +1 Revoker, -1 Lightning Bolt. Revoker naming LED/Mox screws them up pretty badly in combination with Moon, MM, etc. while adding a clock and it’s an easy turn 1 play.

Regarding Welder, I can see him being awesome right now. I’d consider switching the Dragonlord out for Welder, but I like having one unconditional beatdown option and I’m trying to give myself as many outs as possible to Chalice @ 1.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DrewliusMaximus

Regarding Welder, I can see him being awesome right now. I’d consider switching the Dragonlord out for Welder, but I like having one unconditional beatdown option and I’m trying to give myself as many outs as possible to Chalice @ 1.

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Make sure to run shattering spree in your sideboard (x4 if you have the space). That plus one viashino heretic or one hearth kami should work wonders. You can leave 1 welder in the main, and switch it out as appropriate for other artifact hate.

Basically, I feel Painter is extremely well positioned right now. We have answers for the blue control decks with our blasts and now MM. We can wreck almost every other deck with a first turn moon effect, and we can combo out under most hate (we don't even care if painter is shackled!). The only issue is the number of 1-drops we play against MM. It almost makes me wish grindstone was 2. However, you can always recruiter for a welder in game one if grindstone is countered and then wait to cast welder until you have a blast in hand... they only can have 4 MM.

My sideboard plans right now, and this is tentative, are as follows:
3 x shattering spree
1 x viashino heretic
1 x hearth kami
3 x lightning bolt
1 x vexing shusher (debating moving him main!)
3 x meekstone (could be ensnaring bridge or also trinisphere or even MM if I wanted to leave my mainboard the same)
3 x tormod's crypt

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As you can see, it is a work in progress as I am not 100% sure if it is right to leave out faerie macabre for against decks with Emrakul.

In terms of my deck: I play 6 blasts, 1 jaya, 1 welder, 2 magus of the moon, 3 blood moon, 2 figure of destiny (am testing dragonlord and a revoker instead) and 2 SDT main.

I had to take out 1 figure, 1 top and 2 magma jet to fit in 4 x MM... still not 100% sold and am debating taking out 4 MM, putting 3 in my sideboard, and running 1 shusher main + 1 top + 1 figure + 1?

Just to update I've been testing a lot of legacy lately and I def think this deck has some balls in the new meta.

@drew. I'm still not sold on tops but I'm glad they are working for you. I have actually completely dropped any beaters from my deck in order to fit in welders and jaya, which I'm very happy to have back. I've been playing with some of your ideas from your sideboard and have to say I really like them. I might have to up graveyard hate as my meta is filled with graveyard decks. And weirs artifact so Viashino Heretict is a must. I'll post a list soon.

Seth

@Seth and or Drew,

Did any of you test Spellskite? I could see it as a 1 off as extra tuterable protection for Painter.
Any thoughts on that?

Cheers,

J

Why play a 1 off Spellskite ?=!=
It makes no sense to me.. becus if you can tutor it.. then why not just tutor the 2end painter servent or moon effect=?

I could see some situations where a Spellskite could act as an actual "Kira". Which would be better than to tutor for a back up painter.
I don't say that that it is good enough as a 1 off, I was just asking if it was considered.

I'm not so sure about Spellskite myself as I would rather just tutor another threat rather than an answer. That being said I haven't tested it but encourage you to try. It def is a strong card and it can help protect the combo so I understand what you are thinking. Give it a whirl and let us know what you think. I would love to have some hard data.

I missed the GP but I have top 8 the last four tournaments I entered with the deck. I slightly modified it and the board each time. My current build drops the Show and Tell board plan as I suspect JTMS to increase. Zoo isn't that popular so I reconfigured the board to excel in the new MM meta. I'll get a deck and side up in a couple days after I do some more testing against combo. I'm sort of assuming I'm a dog to zoo so I am no longer testing that match up. And the new list finally has Spinal Villian. Just FYI.

Seth

So I played in the Baltimore starcity open this weekend. I ended up going 5-2 and dropping, knowing all along that I would not be staying the whole day as unfortunately I don't have the time for magic I once did. Really I should have been 6-1 as my last round lost was to paul Lynch with Merfolk. Not to take anything away from Paul as he is a good friend and I'm happy that if i was going to lose it would be to the best Merfolk player I know. But i did keep some loose hands and I didn't sideboard for game two, so I guess you could say I was already thinking about going home. I would have felt like complete shit if I had beaten Paul and then dropped, although if your reading this I'm very disappointed in you Paul that you weren't able to repeat!

On to the list.
4 Imperial Recruiter
4 painter's servant
4 SSG
3 Goblin Welder
1 Jaya Ballard
4 magus of the Moon
4 REB
4 Lightning Bolt
2 pyroblast
3 Chrome Mox
4 Grindstone
2 Blood Moon
4 City of Traitors
4 Ancient Tomb
4 arid mesa
2 Volcanic islands
4 Mountains
3 Mental Misstep
Side
3 Emrakal
3 inkwell leviathan
4 intuition
4 Show and Tell
1 viashino heretic

About the deck:

Overall I loved the deck. It is so strong and powerful now. The only cards I would change would be possibly Jaya and adding another Volcanic island in place of a Mountain. The Jaya could be anything from mental Misstep, fabricate, Trinket mage, Goblin Welder, another blast effect, or any number of other cards. Personally i like the versatility, but she was sided out every game 2 and 3 after I knew what I was playing. But it is nice to have that out to nearly everything. Otherwise the main is really tight and I wouldn't change anything. I'm not afraid of Wasteland after this weekend, so I might want to add another Volcanic to make the board stronger.

About the board:

The Eldrazi plan is not as strong as it was weak to Jace. I actually lost a feature match due to my opponent getting it as a top deck. Inkwell is just stronger and decks can't deal with it. I only boarded them in during that one match and I will not be playing them again. I kept wanting to have Koth or something stronger against the red splash landstill decks. Moon effects do nothing against them. But Inkwell and Koth are great against them. I'm even tempted to test running our own Jace, although I think this is the danger of too many cool things. right now I would increase the Inkwell to 4 and add three Koth and drop the Heretic. i never really cared about artifacts the whole day. Sort of like the Revoker, the idea is great, but i just never want to actually use it. Inkwell is not the strongest against Zoo, but he is strong. I would not worry about Zoo much as the current environment is very hostile to it. If anyone wants a detailed report let me know and i'll try to post something.

@Vesper ghoul- I haven't tested the Spinx yet, but to be honest I think I just want more Inkwell as he is so strong against Jace and i loved playing him each and every time. Life gain and vigilance is cool, but it is so relaxing knowing they can not remove or stop your threat.

Seth

I'm going to try running a list similar to sroncor1's at my weekly tournament this week. I've been playing this deck since it's inception, but I took a break right before vengevine-survival showed up. My list is a little outdated, so I'll try this new list and see how it goes. Unfortunately, I don't have show and tell, so I'll have to use a normal sideboard. It will probably be something like this:
4 chalice of the void
4 leyline of the void
vexing shusher
faerie macabre
2 more blasts
etc.

I do have one question though. What do you usually use mental misstep against? Should I save it to protect my pieces and counter opposing removal, or just use it proactively whenever I get a target?

Also, I've been thinking of using a stoneforge mystic package for this deck. It seems great since you can recruit the mystic, and equipment already have good synergy with the deck. Also, it opens up auriok salvagers again, which has helped out this deck in the past. The mystic/equipment should help to stabilize the board while you gather combo pieces. I used to run sword of light and shadow maindeck, and I've won many games by simply beating down with an equipped painter, recruiter, or spirit guide, and that was before stoneforge even existed.

Edit: I'll also be cutting the fetch since my meta is heavy on stifle and even bind in maverick. At least for now I'll be using a mono-red list, so there's no disadvantage.

Based on how far this deck has come, I'm wondering why it's not listed as a DTB. It's so perfectly positioned against the current metagame. Is it because of the rarity of Recruiters?

About mental misstep. i think its the counter you needed to protect magus of the moon when an opponent flood white mana for stp and then let magus resovels :)

Using MM actually depends on the matchup. I would say that less than half the time I actually use it to protect my pieces. For instance against goblins you just need to slow them down so hit vial and lackey. Same thing with Merfolk hit the vial to by time. Against the UW control decks I usually never think twice about throughout it at a first turn ponder or second turn brainstorm. It protects against good discard spells, ie Hymn is not good anyway so who cares. And obviously it beats other MM. Keeping dudes alive is good but to be honest it serves a stronger role to set up a chance to combo. Don't forget we are a very fast deck and the gain in tempo is huge that it gives us. The fact thatthe tempo also provides card parity is amazing.

I would recommend Koth at least two, preferable three in the 75. He kills jace and junk.

Seth

Quote:

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Originally Posted by The Big Ragu

Based on how far this deck has come, I'm wondering why it's not listed as a DTB. It's so perfectly positioned against the current metagame. Is it because of the rarity of Recruiters?

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I agree! This deck is wonderfully positioned right now and is still my go-to deck. It's really the availability and cost of recruiters that keeps it below the radar.

Overall, MM is a great parity / tempo card for us, and I generally use it to stop STP or Lightning bolt / glavanic blast against a painter in response to a grindstone activation. Otherwise, it is totally a tempo spell. Setting goblins or merfolk or control back a turn is usually all the time we need. I tend to play every spell out as if it is a "must-counter", which works as almost every spell in the deck is a "must-counter"!

@ Malchar:
I second the Koth recommendation, he is amazing, especially with a moon effect out. Don't bother with Stoneforge. I also wouldn't run chalice as we want our 1 cc and 2 cc spells. I would run shattering spree x4 and hearth kami x1 or heretic x1 instead to answer opposing artifacts and chalices.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by The Big Ragu

Based on how far this deck has come, I'm wondering why it's not listed as a DTB. It's so perfectly positioned against the current metagame. Is it because of the rarity of Recruiters?

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Because there is a system to which decks show up in DTB, based on performance in large tournaments reported on thecouncil.es. Imperial Painter doesn't show up that often, and therefore is not likely to be found in DTB any time soon.

From This thread:

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It simply happens that the guys from The Council are doing a truly awesome job keeping a tally of Legacy tournaments from all over the world, filtering them into sensible categories, and plotting all of that into a nice chart, so we have agreed - until further notice - to just refer to their data for our own DTB forum.

The rule we have agreed upon is straightforward: each deck making up 4% of the total Top 8 placements for the past month will be a DTB for the next. Looking at ' data, this will usually put between 5 and 10 decks in the top forum.

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and more recently:

Quote:

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Slight change in methodology: Pablo (the guy behind TCDecks) let me know that he has actually programmed a more sophisticated version of his metagame ranking, not yet publicly linked from his homepage, which weighs placements according to the number of rounds won - meaning that placing in bigger tournaments counts for more. It only makes sense to switch to this system; the point cutoff will be set at 3.4% (again, this was chosen by looking at the previous months and picking a number that would usually give between 6 and 10 DTBs).

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Should I bother to put something in the sideboard against storm/spiral-tide, or is having blasts #7 and 8 enough? Also, last time I checked, belcher was making an appearance in my meta, which is why I thought of using chalice with X = 0.