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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
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Originally Posted by
sigfig8
Think about it, the risk in buying 20 Mind Twists is low considering the upside if they are unbanned.
Mind Twist is really terrible. It's probably the worst card still banned from Legacy. I'd be super happy going into a tournament if I knew all of my opponents would be playing 4x Mind Twist. Factor in your time searching the internet for them and buying them and storing them and then (potentially) re-listing them and there isn't any money to be made on it.
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Meekrab
Mind Twist is really terrible. It's probably the worst card still banned from Legacy. I'd be super happy going into a tournament if I knew all of my opponents would be playing 4x Mind Twist. Factor in your time searching the internet for them and buying them and storing them and then (potentially) re-listing them and there isn't any money to be made on it.
+1.What kind of deck would play even a 1-2x Twists? It's no use in Legacy.
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
Quote:
Originally Posted by
kiblast
+1.What kind of deck would play even a 1-2x Twists? It's no use in Legacy.
What good Legcy decks run Grim Monolith? I have yet to see one have a strong showing. Yet, those would have been a tremendous investment. One thing we've learned from the recent unbannings is that a card will be over-hyped upon unbanning even if it's not good. The window may be narrow, but significant profits can be made here.
And if you're going to argue with me on the Grim Monolith point, consider Illusionary Mask as an alternative. I bought one for 70$ pre-unbanning from SCG and I sold it on ebay for 120$ after it was unbanned. And no one seemed to think Mask would be any good.
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
Quote:
Originally Posted by
sigfig8
What good Legcy decks run Grim Monolith? I have yet to see one have a strong showing. Yet, those would have been a tremendous investment. One thing we've learned from the recent unbannings is that a card will be over-hyped upon unbanning even if it's not good. The window may be narrow, but significant profits can be made here.
And if you're going to argue with me on the Grim Monolith point, consider Illusionary Mask as an alternative. I bought one for 70$ pre-unbanning from SCG and I sold it on ebay for 120$ after it was unbanned. And no one seemed to think Mask would be any good.
Yeah, but Grim Monolith sees little play in UR sneak , Hive mind combo and MUD aggro. Mind Twist is not even CLOSE to be something playable. Why would you play it over Tourach? to be reasonably better than Tourach it's casting cost becomes 4. 4 cmc and doesnt affect the board like Wog, Jace, Moat or Humility ? sounds like garbage to me.
Mask is different. Mask costs a lot because it is an highly collectable card ( only ABU). Unbanning it only put it under the spotlights, it's something like an ''extra'' and everyone start wanting one or two, just in case it might become broken (I highly doubt this). You can see it retained its value pretty well, even if since the unbanning nobody played it competitively, still sits in the 100's $ for U and 200's $ for B.
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
Quote:
Originally Posted by
kiblast
Yeah, but Grim Monolith sees little play in UR sneak , Hive mind combo and MUD aggro. Mind Twist is not even CLOSE to be something playable. Why would you play it over Tourach? to be reasonably better than Tourach it's casting cost becomes 4. 4 cmc and doesnt affect the board like Wog, Jace, Moat or Humility ? sounds like garbage to me.
Mask is different. Mask costs a lot because it is an highly collectable card ( only ABU). Unbanning it only put it under the spotlights, it's something like an ''extra'' and everyone start wanting one or two, just in case it might become broken (I highly doubt this). You can see it retained its value pretty well, even if since the unbanning nobody played it competitively, still sits in the 100's $ for U and 200's $ for B.
Even Hymn is argubly not broken in Legacy. It's insane on turns 1-3, but after that, its value starts decreasing when your opponent is down to 1-2 cards in hand. Topdecking Hymn mid-game makes a lot of decks playing black not want to run it, instead they opt for other black cards e.g. removal/Bobs/Thoughtseize. If Hymn is argubly not universally run in any decks playing black with a discard theme, then I cant see Mind Twist being played at all. I don't really want a 3cmc Hymn, nor a 4cmc discard spell that does nothing on turn 4, or requiring a Dark Ritual on turn 2 to discard 3 cards because I've lost 2 cards doing this in the process as well. Although Rit Rit Twist is quite disturbing, but I rather just Ritx2 AdN.
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Metalwalker
Even Hymn is argubly not broken in Legacy. It's insane on turns 1-3, but after that, its value starts decreasing when your opponent is down to 1-2 cards in hand. Topdecking Hymn mid-game makes a lot of decks playing black not want to run it, instead they opt for other black cards e.g. removal/Bobs/Thoughtseize. If Hymn is argubly not universally run in any decks playing black with a discard theme, then I cant see Mind Twist being played at all. I don't really want a 3cmc Hymn, nor a 4cmc discard spell that does nothing on turn 4, or requiring a Dark Ritual on turn 2 to discard 3 cards because I've lost 2 cards doing this in the process as well. Although Rit Rit Twist is quite disturbing, but I rather just Ritx2 AdN.
I am not arguing your point that Mind Twist will be useless in Legacy. I'm simply saying that it'll get a good jolt to its value for the short run. Everyone will want their playset. Remember, Mind Twist right now is only like a 3$ card. I'm not talking it'll see 40$ mind you, more like 8$. That's still more than a 100% increase...
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
Is it just me, or there is some speculation on Candelabra since the 20th?
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
^^I bought two for 40 USD a piece about 7-8 months ago. That was about the going rate for NM from trusted sellers. I tried to buy a third 2 months ago and by then the going rate was 50 USD.
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
Spring Tide is sporting it in some builds.
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
Candelabra = EDH brokenness for Spikes, so there you go. I bought mine at $25-30 a year ago. It was in EX-/VG+ condition. I think the card is a little too narrow to be a staple in a potentially broken deck e.g. SotF. It won't be an engine universally used like SotF but I don't doubt that it might one day be a central piece to a broken deck. The card clearly has the potential to be broken. Being 1cmc also adds to that.
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
SCG has the new phyrexian crusader going for 4 bucks and its about the same for prebuying on Ebay. Does it go up or down from here till the time the set comes out?
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
I think the crusader goes down from here, just because I think poison overall is a losing Proposition from wizards perspective. they (wizards)can not make creatures with poison to good because if they do games will be over to quickly
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
Candelabra has already been in a broken deck. Remember what got Mana Crypt, Mana Vault, Lotus Petal, Lion's eye Diamond, Vampiric Tutor, Tolarian Academy, Windfall, Time Spiral, Stroke of Genius, Dream Halls, Mind over Matter, and several others all restricted or banned at the same time.
This thing was insane. This is pretty close to the old list, though I could swear there was a Capsize in the list somewhere. Stupid thing had a singleton Strip Mine for the sole purpose of hitting opposing Tolarian Academies due to the way the Legend Rule worked back then during a time when you could play 4. Tells you something about the power level of the thing when Strip Mines 2-4 weren't good enough and I think even Time Walk got cut eventually for not being strong enough.
4 City of Brass
4 Tolarian Academy
1 Strip Mine
4 Candelabra of Tawnos
7 Solomoxen
4 Hurkyl's Recall
4 Windfall
1 Time Walk
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Timetwister
1 Wheel of Fortune
4 Force of Will
4 Time Spiral
4 Stroke of Genius
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor
4 Lotus Petal
4 Mana Crypt
4 Mana Vault
2 Defense Grid
As for the Crusaders they will go down some, though that's not a horrible price. I figured $12 for a playset was pretty fair, that's what I grabbed them for. I'll use them in fun decks no matter what.
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
Quote:
Originally Posted by
dahcmai
7 Solomoxen
Would you mind explaining exactly wtf that is?
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
Black Lotus, 5 moxen, Sol Ring.
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
Since when did lotus and sol ring count, or were even referred to, as moxen exactly?
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
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Originally Posted by
Snake Oil
Since when did lotus and sol ring count, or were even referred to, as moxen exactly?
Sol Ring, Lotus, Moxen.
SoLoMoxen.
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Snake Oil
Cool word play bro!
Awesome 3 posts, bro.
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Snake Oil
Since when did lotus and sol ring count, or were even referred to, as moxen exactly?
The term "Solomoxen" has been around as long as people have been writing about Type I, in case you were wondering.
