[DTB] Sneak Attack

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Originally Posted by Water_Wizard

You run 12 Counters, I assume 16 Combo Pieces. How many mana slots and cantrips?
23 Mana Slots and you only have room for 9 cantrips (2 Intuition, 4 Brainstorm, 3 Ponder?).

Are you running REB in your board (in addition to the 3 Spell Pierce)?

Thanks!

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I really don't think REB is needed in the sideboard if you have Flusterstorm in the main and Pierces in the side. Having that Volc vs Maverick or RUG probably is not the best thing to do. Its better to play soft counters that involve blue mana off your basic Island.

I really want to go up to 3 Intuition though, especially for longer match up where some of your stuff gets countered, but I know its not the most consistent thing in the world to have in your hand when you open at times.

Jess- Do you want to post your whole list? It's hard to comment on your sideboard without seeing your other 60.

I got to hard cast Emrakul tonight for the first time with this deck. It was game 2 vs. re-animator, I started out with a cage on turn 1, then he won the counter war over a pithing needle thanks to his flusterstorm. I sided out my show and tell's and did not side in any echoing truths so it was just draw, play land, go for a while until I got to 15 mana with the help of the sol lands and some petals.

Nice, nice, very nice! I've had that thought many a game, but have yet to live the dream.

EDIT: Who am I kidding? The dream is a turn 1 protected Show and Tell into Emrakul when they do not drop a Karakas or Knight of the Reliquary into play :)

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Originally Posted by The Colonel

It's also better than Pierce against storm combo because you can hold it until they play their deadly spell. This way you don't have to worry about which mana producer to counter and just wait till they empty their hand and

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This never actually works, just saying.

I do agree though, Flusterstorm is awesome.

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Originally Posted by S1N1STER

I got to hard cast Emrakul tonight for the first time with this deck. It was game 2 vs. re-animator, I started out with a cage on turn 1, then he won the counter war over a pithing needle thanks to his flusterstorm. I sided out my show and tell's and did not side in any echoing truths so it was just draw, play land, go for a while until I got to 15 mana with the help of the sol lands and some petals.

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At my last tournament I hardcast emradaddy in 2 different matches. That is pure awesomeness when you get to pull it off. My opp went OMGWTF!! lol and scoop in both cases. Needless to say, I won both those matches.

I have one question I need some help on, I just can't decide.

What counter package is best? FoW/Misdirection/Daze or FoW/Misdirection/Spell Pierce or FoW/Daze/Spell Pierce?

Thanks,

Slaydo

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Originally Posted by slaydo

At my last tournament I hardcast emradaddy in 2 different matches. That is pure awesomeness when you get to pull it off. My opp went OMGWTF!! lol and scoop in both cases. Needless to say, I won both those matches.

I have one question I need some help on, I just can't decide.

What counter package is best? FoW/Misdirection/Daze or FoW/Misdirection/Spell Pierce or FoW/Daze/Spell Pierce?

Thanks,

Slaydo

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IMO the best configuration of the options provided is FoW/MisD/daze. Free counter magic shouldn't ever be underestimated, especially when you want to get your critter out asap.

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Originally Posted by Water_Wizard

Replacing Progenitus with Griselbrand is an overall improvement to the deck, but it hurts Misdirection, because one of the most common pitch situations is: I have two Monsters in hand, I only need to get one into play, let me pitch Progenitus to FOW/Misdirection to allow Emrakul or my other Progenitus to get into play.

Those running 4 FOW/3 Misdirection, no problems with not having enough blue pitch cards? Most of our blue cards are 'business' cards and Jessenator and I have found it unlikely that we will have extra blue cards waiting to pitch.

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Thank you for all your awesome posts! Intelligent debate, is the whole reason why this forum is worth following.

I disagree however that Griselbrand over Progenitus, hurts Misdirection: Drawing 7/14 off Griselbrand, looking for a hard counter to protect him, comes up very often for me. And this is where Misirection shines. It doubles as protection for going of (here is where it may be worse than other counters), but it's real justification, is protecting a Griselbrand already in play. I'm playing more Misdirections now, than before Griselbrand.

Thanks!

And thank you for yours :)

Are you playing against Maverick or UW? I think the correct counter-suite is highly meta dependent. I've been facing a lot of combo (Storm and some Belcher), Burn, and RUG (plus some Goblins and other stuff). None of those decks run white, so I haven't faced much STP/PTE. The idea of Burn/RUG burning out Griselbrand is absurd and Misdirection can't interact with Belcher (outside of Misdirecting a post board Pyroblast) and Misdirection's only interact with Storm is with Thoughseize/Inquisition of Kozilek/Cabal Therapy - it doesn't even hit Duress.

I see your point and I appreciate your feedback. If I expect to play against more white, I'll include more Misdirection in my list. How many do you run? Have you ever had a situation where you have no Misdirection targets (especially, say the turn after an Emrakul swing off a Sneak Attack)?

Also, assuming you're facing white, what's your plan for beating Karakas and Knight?

I agree that its essentially a meta choice. I currently play 3 Misdirection. I feel like discard really gets me. And that countering removal (which is live against us now), is a big deal.
Misdirection is rarely dead due to no targets, but off course it happens. Not a big factor I’d say.
Against Karakas: Someone said this a couple of pages back, and I’ve been all in on it ever since: Vs Karakas, your plan becomes, Sneak attack, with 2 red open and Emrakul in hand. It cuts of some lines of play for us, but we are by no means dead to it. This + Blood moon or Needle in the SB, makes me not worry too much about Karakas.

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Originally Posted by The Colonel

Since we're posting counter suites I'll post mine and my opinions on them.


4 FoW
3 Flusterstorm
3 Daze
2 MisD

also 3 Pierce on the board

4 Force is a given

3 Flusterstorm is optimal IMO. I've found it to be better than Pierce because often it hits multiple counters or forces the opponent to pay more than 2. It's also better than Pierce against storm combo because you can hold it until they play their deadly spell. This way you don't have to worry about which mana producer to counter and just wait till they empty their hand and then counter each one of their 10 copies of what ever crazy storm spell they play.

3 Daze; now if you go back to pages 13-25 or somthing of this thread you'll find I was a daze opponent. Now I'm a proponent. Yes, a turn 1 victory is cool and does occassionally happen, and yes sometimes the deck has to go to turn 12 to win. But MAINLY we win turns 2-4 and in those turns Daze is just the best. It means having the ability to tap out playing S&T and a 1 mana cost counter for backup and then Daze wins the counter war when you bounce your tapped Island.

2 MisD. Well, I used to run 3-4 but I was just tired of my OP casting Jace or Knight the turn before I would win and looking at my hand to find MisD. So I cut it back to 2 and found that it works really well and is easy to side out for Pierce or REB.




Also I would like to say that I've found that 2 Intuition MD is the way to go, at least in my running of the deck. It helps us get that all important game 1 victory. And then I almost always side out them to avoid the all to ever present Surgical Extraction which can wreck us and bring in Spell Pirece of Blood Moon or whatever.

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This is perceisly why Pierce main is superior to Flusterstorm, it hits everything we care about (save for Knight).

There is nothing worse than staring at a threat with a brick of counter in your hand, and just throwing away a game.

Ive done some intense testing vs UW Terminator yesterday evening. My opponent is like one step above me, considering play skill, and we got following results (counting for me):
0-2, 2-0, 1-2, 2-1, 2-1, 0-2
making it a 7-8

I would have lost horribly without my 3 Pithing Needles in the sideboard. My boarding-plan was:
-4 Lotus Petal
-2 Intuition
-2 Spell Pierce

+2 Red Elemental Blast
+3 Pithing Needle
+3 Through the Breach

Needle AND Through the Breach were 100% important for winning. I believe this MU to be a horro if you don't run a similar sideboard as I do. I am still testing my large-scale-sideboard tested before and I believe it's pretty well geared against the decks to beat atm. Would you guys suggest a different boarding-plan? What are you experiences with this MU? Do you go the "Combo-off-as-fast-as-possible-route" or do you play like me, first gain control, then overtake them with 11 buisness-spells costing 3,4 and 5?

Greetings

EDIT: Guys did you read all this shit in B/R about Show and Tell getting the axe? What do you think? It wouldn't mean a finacial loss to me, but also a personal - as Show and Tell has been my fav deck for the last year..what do you think?

Thanks for the info
I too am wondering why it gets all the flak. there are people who dont want to learn to play against it by adjusting their deck with sb tools (of which there are plenty I might add). Instead they immediately scream ban this, ban that.. its op omgwtfbbq! (pardon my french). I am sure that wizards would have thought things over with griselbrand. Note, legacy is still predominantly a format where players like to play their favorite pet deck. When money is involved people who want to win play popular decks or decks that are good in. particular meta. I dont mind that, what I do mind is idiots screaming ban this ban that because its op.

I'd rather curb prize support of thousands of dollars to a lot lower amount, thus removing the urge and need of players to change over from their pet deck to the weekly flavor. Btw, when the mageblade lists surfaced as the dominant force at the last US GP no one cried ban hymn or sfm.

Food for thought that is all.

slaydo

It gets the "flak" for being a completely degenerate card; compounded by WoTC desire to ever push the power level of huge nasty monsters.

Moreover, the card is so linear and powerful that any half wit can pilot it (if you think playing this deck successfully is honing your skill, your wrong). It has a bad flavor of another degenerate combo, Flash Hulk; but at least with that you had to do some thinking to combo off.

The other issue is Griselbrand. The power level on this card is obscene, and free draw 7's are a taboo issue. Since including him into my build, the influence on the deck was imidiate, and I find myself wanting to have him in play over Emrakul in most situations.

That being said, this archetype has not posted results that would indicate a problem exists that would warrant a ban. Furthermore the prevalence of Canadian Thresh and it's RUG off shoots really keep the format in check.

I can however see Griselbrand being watched with a very close eye, as he may be to good for this format.

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Originally Posted by Water_Wizard

Jess- Do you want to post your whole list? It's hard to comment on your sideboard without seeing your other 60.

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My 60 is.

Creatures:
4 Emrakul
4 Griselbrand

4 Show and Tell
4 Sneak Attack

4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
3 Daze
2 Misdirection
2 Spell Pierce

3 Lotus Petal

2 Intuition
4 Ponder
1 Preordain

19 lands.
3 Island
1 Mountain
4 Misty
4 Tarn
3 Tomb
2 Traitor
2 Volcanic

Sideboard consideration. I probably will include Blood Moon since Maverick / UW Control naturally drawing out Karakas means a bad g1 if they have any sort of defense / removal vs the Griselbrand that they cannot bounce back.

Cards for consideration
4 Leyline of Sanctity
3 Graffdigger's Cage
2 Red Elemental Blast
2 Through the Breach
2 Echoing Truth
2 Pyroclasm
3 Blood Moon
2 Flusterstorm

Another thing I wanted to do was take out a Misdirection for a third Spell Piece / Flusterstorm in my 60. I feel the Daze + Pierce / Fluster combo is extremely powerful, especially the fact that the Daze adds another Storm counter to the equation. I really am not liking the misdirections a whole lot but if they do try to Thoughtseize you turn 1 the Misdirection allows you to blow them out and go off safely. The lack of blue cards is not giving me a high incentive to play more than 2 Misdirections..

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Originally Posted by Water_Wizard

And thank you for yours :)
Misdirection's only interact with Storm is with Thoughseize/Inquisition of Kozilek/Cabal Therapy - it doesn't even hit Duress.

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Just to note - against TES, you can also Misdirect the Chants as well.

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Originally Posted by Esper3k

Just to note - against TES, you can also Misdirect the Chants as well.

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As well one copy of Tendrils in a pinch to avoid dying.

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Originally Posted by Esper3k

Just to note - against TES, you can also Misdirect the Chants as well.

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Correct. You can Misdirect Orim's Chant, but not Silence. I'm noticing more of a 4/1 Silence/Chant split as of late, because Silence dodges Leyline of Sanctity (along with any other card giving a player hexproof) and Misdirection.

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Originally Posted by Koby

As well one copy of Tendrils in a pinch to avoid dying.

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Good point, good point.

To summarize posts earlier in the page about Misdirection:

1) Misdirection protects Griselbrand from Swords to Plowshares and Path to Exile (assuming there is another creature on board). This becomes relevant when you play Griselbrand, they target with STP/PTE, you draw 7 to find an answer, you would like to hit a Misdirection/FOW.

2) Misdirection is very solid against discard (Hymn, Thoughtseize, IoK, Cabal Therapy), except Duress.

3) Misdirection, along with Force of Will, Sneak Attack, and monsters dodge Inquisition of Kozilek.

4) Against Storm, Misdirection is able to target an Orim's Chant or a Tendrils of Agony copy in addition to Thoughtseize, Cabal Therapy, Inquisition of Kozilek, and bounce spells (Chain of Vapor and Echoing Truth, assuming there is another legal target).