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What do people think of the Surgical Extraction + Wasteland plan against RUG? Their mana base is very reliant on Tropical and Volcanic Islands. Even if we don't see a Wasteland, SEing their Wastes, counters, or their small number of threats could also be valuable.
It could work, but you're taking a risk. RUG only needs 1-2 lands to be dangerous, whereas you need more. Land denial often comes back to haunt me when I try it in Stoneblade. There's only two times I remember it winning a game for me: against Reanimator (had 1 land out and Brainstormed/Pondered like 3 times in a row, and Enchantress (T1 Wild Growth or Utopia Sprawl on a dual land [which Enchantress never does], so I 2-for-1'd him and he conceded a turn or two later).Quote:
Originally Posted by Dzra
As long as you have some other lands handy, though, or at least a Brainstorm, I'd say go for it if it's early enough to deny them a color.
Yeah, most every time I've tried a land denial plan, it's gone south. I'm thinking RUG might be the exception if you can Wasteland + Surgical early enough. If you hit it early enough to cut them off a color then great, if not then you can save your Wastelands and point your Surgicals elsewhere.Quote:
Originally Posted by matunos
Off the top of my head, maybe something like...
-4 Spell Snare, -3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
+2 Spell Pierce, +2 Surgical Extraction, +2 Wrath of God, +1 Engineered Explosives
WoG seems pretty slow against RUG, especially with Daze and Spell Pierce. EE and Path to Exile seem better.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dzra
Yeah, I might run PtE over it except I dropped it from my board. WoG works fine for the most part. I should be able to slow them down enough to hit 5 mana. I'd rather be waiting to WoG than have extra spot removal when facing down 1-2 Mongoose. Terminus might really shine here by being able to play around Daze/Spell Pierce pretty easily.Quote:
Originally Posted by matunos
I like replacing 2 StP with 2 PtE, but not bringing any extra in. It's the worst feeling when you're sitting on two Path effects in your opener and they drop even one Mongoose. It's the worst. I like WoG because, as Dzra mentioned, you can slow them down enough to get them.
When I play this match-up, I snap Spell Pierce every Brainstorm they play. What do people think of that? My theory is that they play so many situational cards late game that if they can't fix up their hand, you will be more likely to pull through.
Valid train of thought. I'd counter (even FOW) every BS they play with a fetch land out, but then again I tend to do that against most opponents in most scenarios.Quote:
Originally Posted by learntolove6
Countering a Brainstorm is sketchy enough, but FoW (assuming you mean with the alternate cost)? That's cutting your nose off to spite your face. You're going to 2:1 yourself to stop a card quality spell? I wouldn't even do that against combo.Quote:
Originally Posted by klaus
FoW is an insurance plan to stop opponents' bombs, or protect your own, it's not a card you want to use willy nilly. Save the Force for their business.
On the other hand, I have been known to Surgically Extract a Brainstorm or 4. Usually against combo. Against RUG, I don't think I would. They're not *that* reliant on card selection.
Alright: I exaggerated a bit, to make a stronger point, but if you've played with BS since Onslaught, you'd agree that tons of Brainstorms with a fetch out have saved your butt. BS+fetch is one of the strongest plays blue decks out there have no matter whether we're talking early-, mid-, or late-game. Hell, some decks splash blue solely to be able to run that card, and rightfully so.Quote:
Originally Posted by matunos
well i agree, it doesn't happen often, but when i'm in a good position and i feel the opponent really needs that brainstorm to resolve i vould waste a fow on that. 90% of the time it sealed the deal. But its only in some situationsQuote:
Originally Posted by klaus
Another question: What do people think about Mirran Crusader instead of Geist of Saint Traft in straight UW Stoneblade. He can be targeted, yes, however, consider the fact that he can block Nimble Mongoose all day and get through all of Maverick's defenses. In addition, Geist is outclassed by Esper by Lingering Souls. You go T3 Geist, they Lingering Souls and suddenly you can't attack anymore. Crusader completely avoids that. His clock is slower, but he wears a Jit better.
In theory, he sounds very strong, but you need to protect him. Geist protects himself from Bolts and Plows, but Crusader doesn't, but could these upsides be enough of a reason to run him?
@Crusader vs Geist, i say Geist is better, he is immun to RUGs Removal, and they run enough to hit a crusader if needed. And Maverick still plays White, a Mom can block a Crusader very easy, or even Thalia can be a 1:1. Sure, both can try to handle a Ghost, but as a controlplayer you havenīt worried about additional removal/combat tricks.
Souls - the can make 4 Tokens with 1 Spell to counter your Crusader and break a stall with an equiped jitte and a simple flying spirit.
Clique is still better than either of them and if you're looking to race through Lingering Souls, Batterskull already does an amazing job. A Pro-White creature would be better against Maverick since that would leave them with their 2-3 Ooze and possibly Scryb Ranger or Thrun as blockers.
Has anyone given thought to Silverblade Paladin?
Even with spot removal, it could put an opponent in a bind if you drop him onto the field while you have an eligible attacker already Jitted up. Do they remove the Jitted guy or the Silverblade? If Silverblade, the Jitted dude gets through, but if the Jitted dude, with LS, you have a good chance to reestablish soulbond quickly.
Seriously, consider the creature on its own against the top decks. A 2/2 for 1WW. That's a lousy topdeck, bad against RUG tempo because it is in bolt range, all their guys beat it, AND we need WW to cast it and play around dazes. Against Maverick, it doesn't do anything, their guys are better, and we are always looking to wrath the board anyway in order to survive. We need something to stabilize or with utility, not something that races them in arbitrary scenarios. Against the mirror, LS or Batterskull is always better. Against combo? Again, it doesn't do anything, and you never want to tap out for a 2/2 against them... I don't even know why I give such a detailed description. Scenarios starting with "If I have a Jitte and 2 creatures out ..." is almost always self-explanatoryQuote:
Originally Posted by matunos
You're probably correct overall. I don't think it's fair to only consider a creature by itself, especially considering one with soulbond, since the whole point of the ability is to interact with other creatures. This line of reasoning would render one to consider Mother of Runes little more than a cheap Wall of Shadows. I don't think my example scenario is too far out of question, but yeah, it may just be too cute to be good. (However, I'm still a fan of Geist, and he often requires some sort of support, such as a sword, a pre-charged Jitte, Karakas, etc. to utilize; although against most combo he's just a good clock).Quote:
Originally Posted by TkDodo
It may certainly be the case, however, that either Silverblade is just not good enough in general, or that Stoneblade in particular can't provide the creature support that would capitalize on it. I certainly don't think a non-token generating Stoneblade could do it.
After testing a fair bit, I think the miracle cards don't fit this deck. Temporal is me because we don't have a clock like Delver to abuse it. Terminus is too situational. If you draw it at the wrong time, its dead without brainstorm. Entreat I'd a lategame only card, which we are always good at.
The only change I've made is to play 3 maindeck spell pierce. I cut a snare and the 2 Counterspell for the pierces. IMO piercing branstorms/temporal will be key in a number of matchups. Anyway I've been unhappy with Counterspell for a while, does too little too late. And multiple snares sometimes sucks balls.
I think Terminus shows the most potential out of the miracles. Although I'm still undecided if it's better than Wrath. Obviously the problem is not being able to miracle it, but between Brainstorm, Taigo, and Jace I think we should be able to set it up by the time we want to use it.
I don't think I'd drop Counterspell either. Spell Pierce is great, but hitting KotR and Mongoose is very relevant. I board in Spell Pierce a lot, but I can't think of many MU's where I'd board out Counterspell (especially the ones where Pierce is good).
yesterday i played a UW stoneblade list with terminus at my LGS. Went 3-1-0. drew against burn, but probably would have won if i had played better, i made some mistakes in that game.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dzra
i like terminus, and from what i've seen from the card till now i love it more than wrath. Why? well because from all the miracles i think it's the one that has a minimum of bad moments to flip it. Till now the only bad moment to flip it was when i was in a winning position and i didn't want my creatures on the field to go away. Otherwise the card has always been a 1 for 1 or better. The card can vary from a swords to plowshares to a wrath of god. But it will always do something useful. And with only 2 in the deck you rarely open a hand with it and when you do it often isn't that bad because you can set it up with a brainstorm or jace later on.
i think the card is very powerful, everytime i flipped it i could follow it up with jace or another threat which completely turned the game in my favor. It needs more extensive testing though.
can i ask if they were MD or SB?Quote:
Originally Posted by AEnesidem