Re: The current state of Magic
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fatal
Little true but it's very connected - current state of Magic makes format less diversity since R&D form WotC produce bad designed cards in last few years and do nothing with it. That's why Banned & Restricted list exist - but WotC refuse to take any action to correct mistakes in development. It's scary how long took correct mistake with Terminus and how they correct it - SDT ban, similar like with Vengevines and Survival, the more engines they ban, instead issues, then less diversity and more paper (Grixis Delver) / rock (Czech Pile) / scissors(Chalice based decks) / ok let be Spock also (D&T) will be format instead of multi-dimensional matrix.
R&D is a joke when it comes to B&R management - see Felidar Guardian emergency ban two days after the regular ban announcement. Taking a full year to fix the mess that was DTT and three fucking years of Miracle dominance just because one brave soul put up a "Ban Sensei's Top" sign in front of their HQ (chances are SDT would be still around otherwise) speakes volumes about their format management. Vintage has more fanboys within WotC's working staff, so their format gets more micromanaged than Legacy, simple as that.
Thus I don't buy Aaron Forscythe's recent statement that Legacy is handled by people who actually play the format - the same people who think that DRS prevents the format from being degenerate (what degeneracy does it stop?). The same people who think that another set of "real" duals would ruin the format with 8 copies of duals, despite most decks not even playing 4 copies due to fetchlands, etc. - this is why we can't have nice things.
Re: The current state of Magic
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Barook
R&D is a joke when it comes to B&R management - see Felidar Guardian emergency ban two days after the regular ban announcement. Taking a full year to fix the mess that was DTT and three fucking years of Miracle dominance just because one brave soul put up a "Ban Sensei's Top" sign in front of their HQ (chances are SDT would be still around otherwise) speakes volumes about their format management. Vintage has more fanboys within WotC's working staff, so their format gets more micromanaged than Legacy, simple as that.
Thus I don't buy Aaron Forscythe's recent statement that Legacy is handled by people who actually play the format - the same people who think that DRS prevents the format from being degenerate (what degeneracy does it stop?). The same people who think that another set of "real" duals would ruin the format with 8 copies of duals, despite most decks not even playing 4 copies due to fetchlands, etc. - this is why we can't have nice things.
I think Aaron's statement was that legacy was handled FOR people who actually play the format, in the context of whether Brainstorm should be banned i.e. even if numbers of Brainstorm in top8s or whatever are very high, the majority of current legacy players seem ok with that, so it's fine
Re: The current state of Magic
Quote:
Originally Posted by
kombatkiwi
I think Aaron's statement was that legacy was handled FOR people who actually play the format, in the context of whether Brainstorm should be banned i.e. even if numbers of Brainstorm in top8s or whatever are very high, the majority of current legacy players seem ok with that, so it's fine
The "for the people" Statement ONLY stands somewhat true if it refers to "people who like the cantrip shell which isn't available in any other format and have the cards already". It's blatant bollocks from every other perspective (like in regards to meta, playable non-cantrip options, Management, support, etc) or player (new players, monetary burden of the format, etc)
The whole statement reminds me too much of vintages status of Workshops dominating for 5+ years before WotC essentially passed down the B&R handling to a group of players who still "care". WotC is just waiting for these formats to dissolve naturally due to skyrocketing prices, no reprints, no support and most importantly, them gladly witnessing how stale, horrible meta situations over the span of years discourage players and make them move to Modern
Re: The current state of Magic
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Lemnear
The "for the people" Statement ONLY stands somewhat true if it refers to "people who like the cantrip shell which isn't available in any other format and have the cards already". It's blatant bollocks from every other perspective (like in regards to meta, playable non-cantrip options, Management, support, etc) or player (new players, monetary burden of the format, etc)
The people who strongly dislike the cantrip shell are a very vocal minority in my experience.
Re: The current state of Magic
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Whitefaces
The people who strongly dislike the cantrip shell are a very vocal minority in my experience.
I think most people are disgruntled with the cantrip shell because it has evolved into by far the dominant strategy in the format because of all the insane blue creatures they have printed (delver/ snap/ leovold/ tnn etc). Other threats/ answers have gotten efficient enough to slot into the cantrip shell, so much so that it is capable of functioning well with one of the greediest mana bases ever. Many other decks just cant compete with the efficiency and consistency anymore, especially when their efficient threats just go into the cantrip shell and make that deck better at the same time.
Re: The current state of Magic
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Lemnear
The "for the people" Statement ONLY stands somewhat true if it refers to "people who like the cantrip shell which isn't available in any other format and have the cards already". It's blatant bollocks from every other perspective (like in regards to meta, playable non-cantrip options, Management, support, etc) or player (new players, monetary burden of the format, etc)
The whole statement reminds me too much of vintages status of Workshops dominating for 5+ years before WotC essentially passed down the B&R handling to a group of players who still "care". WotC is just waiting for these formats to dissolve naturally due to skyrocketing prices, no reprints, no support and most importantly, them gladly witnessing how stale, horrible meta situations over the span of years discourage players and make them move to Modern
The 'have the cards already' part is total bullshit, there isn't any banlist change that suddenly makes the format significantly cheaper (unless it's something absurdly drastic like all duals banned)
The arguments for/against "meta" and "playable non-cantrip options" have been hashed out in the BR thread x100
"Management" and "Support" are just empty buzzwords, if you don't define what you mean by this then I can't talk about it
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WotC is just waiting for these formats to dissolve naturally due to skyrocketing prices, no reprints
Tell me how a B/R change fixes this?
Like Legacy on the PT, other Team Trio GPs?
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most importantly, them gladly witnessing how stale, horrible meta situations over the span of years discourage players and make them move to Modern
Citation needed
I don't even think WotC is monetizing modern properly considering the content of the recent masters sets but that's a little bit off topic
Like I get that your shtick is to be the most cynical motherfucker around but you could at least try and make some sense at the same time
Re: The current state of Magic
"Have the cards already" simply refers to the absurd cost of most blue shells these days which are unreasonable for new people to simply buy in. If WotC claims the format is handled "for the players" they sure ignore the crowd who are priced out from potentially running the decks they actually want to play. I also don't buy that maintaining loopsided metas for 3-4 years which annoy most of the community, deserve the label "for the players". I know enough people who moved to modern during Miracles' prime being annoyed by the meta at it's time. It's anekdotal, i am aware, however dont think any uncommon.
Stores get in trouble for handing out FNM promos for hosting Legacy instead of modern/standard tournaments. That's not how you support a format. Neither by removing Legacy as a PT format for many years.
WotC can ONLY make Legacy less stale via the B&R handling which however takes them years to do unless some hero puts up a sign before their Headquarter. It would be easy for them to end the "BUG format" Legacy suffers through. Monetary issues like previously mentioned would have to be adressed by printings (new and old), but we have turds in charge who think that snow duals would break the format because everyone could run 8 UW duals.
My grief is that the format does not even get supported on local level by WotC, they don't counteract the price spiral which prices out so many players interrested to pick up the format and they make it miserable for the players, by nor adressing severe meta disbalances.
Re: The current state of Magic
Quote:
Originally Posted by
kombatkiwi
I think Aaron's statement was that legacy was handled FOR people who actually play the format, in the context of whether Brainstorm should be banned i.e. even if numbers of Brainstorm in top8s or whatever are very high, the majority of current legacy players seem ok with that, so it's fine
You’re right sadly. The other formats are handled to maximize long term player base growth (whether they are actually succeeding is another story). Legacy is managed for the people who already play the format, so it’s very light touch.
Re: The current state of Magic
Wizards could print cantrips for the other colors to compete with brainstorm and that would reduce the number of blue decks or decks splashing blue for brainstorm. It might lead to deck diversity and in turn reduce the cost of blue duals / other duals if solo color decks could experience similar consistency. For example, maybe they print a card like brainstorm for each color but it is better. G - brainstorm, gain 3 life, may only be played in decks with green and colorless cards.
Re: The current state of Magic
Quote:
Originally Posted by
apple713
Wizards could print cantrips for the other colors to compete with brainstorm and that would reduce the number of blue decks or decks splashing blue for brainstorm. It might lead to deck diversity and in turn reduce the cost of blue duals / other duals if solo color decks could experience similar consistency. For example, maybe they print a card like brainstorm for each color but it is better. G - brainstorm, gain 3 life, may only be played in decks with green and colorless cards.
There could also be a case for card manipulation that suits the flavor of a color. Like, Red could have a cantrip like: reveal top 2, add one to hand and mill the other. It would sort of play into that whole faithless looting/cathartic kinda theme. Or you could play up the permanent flickering white theme with some kinda enchantment that triggers a cantripping/scrying effect. It might be better than trying to give every color a Ponder/Brainstorm, because then I think you'd just get decks jamming 6-8 "ponder" and 6-8 "brainstorm" effects.
Re: The current state of Magic
This wouldn't solve all the price issues that legacy/vintage have, but it sure as hell would help.
Ban all reserve list cards in Commander.
Re: The current state of Magic
Quote:
Originally Posted by
apple713
Wizards could print cantrips for the other colors to compete with brainstorm and that would reduce the number of blue decks or decks splashing blue for brainstorm. It might lead to deck diversity and in turn reduce the cost of blue duals / other duals if solo color decks could experience similar consistency. For example, maybe they print a card like brainstorm for each color but it is better. G - brainstorm, gain 3 life, may only be played in decks with green and colorless cards.
That's actually straight on reducing diversity as then every deck is playing Brainstorm. The color pie exists for a reason, straight on breaking it leads to exactly this problem.
Another way to think about it, think about what happened with Mental Misstep. Every deck had access to it and that's an awfully bad situation. Also DRS : one of the big issue with this card is that it's usually being cast by a lands whithout the Forest type.
To sum up, you just don't want every color and deck to have access to the same tools. If a tool is deemed too strong, the only solution is to deal with it via bans, unbans, or new printings.
Re: The current state of Magic
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NlTF45Ta2Lg
If shit like this gets distributed, it explains alot why the Quality Manager of WotC was fired and why recent MtG card quality is such a garbage fire.
Re: The current state of Magic
Per the recently released hasbro annual report, it does looks like their player base growth strategy is working. Source: https://investor.hasbro.com/static-f...f-a46f52b62e6e .
"MAGIC: THE GATHERING finished the year strong, as
revenue grew in the fourth quarter, but full-year revenue
declined slightly. Our investments and activities for longterm
growth are taking hold. MAGIC: THE GATHERING
had its best year ever in new player growth and we began
a successful closed beta for our new digital initiative,
MAGIC: THE GATHERING ARENA, launching in 2018."
Other magic mentions:
"Hasbro’s gaming portfolio represents one of our
most significant opportunities. We’ve invested to expand
our advantage by acquiring Backflip Studios, developing
MAGIC: THE GATHERING ARENA and establishing data
analytics and social listening expertise. "
Not really sure what social listening is?
Re: The current state of Magic
Quote:
Originally Posted by
kinda
a successful closed beta for our new digital initiative,
MAGIC: THE GATHERING ARENA, launching in 2018."
Does it refer to "successfully" ignoring all critique in regards to their online economy?
Re: The current state of Magic
Quote:
Originally Posted by
kinda
What ? No. I mean, all the experts that seem to be spending about half their free time bitching on this topic are all unanimously clear that WotC knows nothing and is being stupid on each and every decision they're making.
I'm sure our resident experts will provide you with a better explanation on why you might be led to think WoTc strategy is working, and how instead it really doesn't.
Re: The current state of Magic
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Lemnear
Does it refer to "successfully" ignoring all critique in regards to their online economy?
Heh...I believe they may be subtlety acknowledging this by pointing out their investment in “social listening” (second quote I pasted).
Re: The current state of Magic
Quote:
Originally Posted by
kinda
Heh...I believe they may be subtlety acknowledging this by pointing out their investment in “social listening” (second quote I pasted).
I noticed that passage, but it's a hallow phrase for certain mobile game companies, that pretty much means "calm the angry players down and filter the feedback for positive stuff the devs can show to the bosses".
Re: The current state of Magic
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Originally Posted by
ParkerLewis
What ? No. I mean, all the experts that seem to be spending about half their free time bitching on this topic are all unanimously clear that WotC knows nothing and is being stupid on each and every decision they're making.
I'm sure our resident experts will provide you with a better explanation on why you might be led to think WoTc strategy is working, and how instead it really doesn't.
Shareholder gibberish is worthless pile of buzzwords unless it's concrete data with hard numbers, as you can spin every situation, no matter how bad it is, into a positive light. Ask yourself this:
- Why did the revenue decline, despite the latest Un-set performing above expectations (hence the strong Q4 finish), and with WotC pumping out more and more product each year? Are there less people, or people buying less product, or both? And if so, why?
- New player growth? Based on what? Paper, digital, both? Percentage-wise or number-wise? Or did they just double- and tripple-dip existing players with the Arena Beta? How is the Arena Beta counted - based on the number of closed Beta keys given out? Consider that some Chinese chuckefucks grabbed a whole bunch of keys and sell them on Ebay. As it stands, this statement could mean everything.
- If MtG had the biggest player growth ever, shouldn't it also have a new record in player numbers (given that the magical 12 million players number has "stagnated" for the last 5 years :rolleyes:)? Or did a whole bunch of players just quit in the wake of the trash Standard season (which would also explain the revenue decline) and they're sweeping that under the rug? The entire thing just doesn't add up.
Re: The current state of Magic
Apparently those game keeper stores in the malls I used to go to as a kid were owned by wotc. Maybe they should have never closed those. Maybe their revenue would be better if they still had these stores.
