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I just want to note that Arcane Lab can be brought in against Dreadstill to stop its namesake (the Dread part, not the Still part). I'm not sure how good it is, especially against Goyf Dreadstill, who can just ignore it and play Goyf beatdown. But against non-Goyf lists, cutting their options down to Factory and Trinket Mage beats might be worth it. Probably not though.
Chalice at 1 is normally a power play vs the deck and accomplishes the same thing.Quote:
Originally Posted by KillemallCFH
Of course Chalice does the job better. Arcane Lab just acts as additional ways of stopping it. Also Arcane Lab is harder to get rid of since they can't just drop an EE @ 0.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ertai's Familiar
Again, I agree it is probably too weak/narrow to run. I was just pointing out another application.
Okay, that's a no on arcane laboratory. So what are your sideboards looking like now? Something like this?
3 Glen Elendra Archmage
3 Back to Basics
2 Tormod's Crypt
2 Pithing Needle
2 Engineered Explosives
and.......?
SB for diamond FS (which can produce B mana via vault and 4x diamond mox):
SB: 2 [FD] Engineered Explosives (+1 main)
SB: 4 [CH] Tormod's Crypt (+1 relic main)
SB: 1 [ALA] Executioner's Capsule
SB: 1 [10E] Pithing Needle
SB: 4 [TE] Propaganda
SB: 3 [EVE] Glen Elendra Archmage
Blue Elemental Blast fills the last holes of my sideboard.
@Sasa: What's your 60th card?
I am getting back in to magic and i have made this deck with some minor changes due to limited funding.
I will post my list and explain the changes as well as my observations. I would really like some feedback and suggestions on what can be changed and how the deck could be optimized.
Creatures
4X serendib Effrit
4X cloud of fairies
3X Trinket mage
4X pestermite
4X mulldrifter
2X sower of temptation
2X looters il-kor
Spells
4X Force of will
Artifacts
4X chalice of the void
4X Chrome mox
2X Sword of Fire and Ice
2X Sword of light and Shadow
2X Sigil of Distinction
1X Pithing needle
Land
4X ancient tomb
4X City of Trators
1X seat of the synod
9X Island
SideBoard
The sideboard has not been fully decided on but this is the basic list for the moment
4X Back to Basics
4X Blue elemental blast
1X Pithing needle
1X Engeneered Explosives
2X Tormods Crypt
3X Propaganda
I will not be explaining the standard inclusions such as Trinket mage ect..
Ok so now for some explanations.
Cloud of Fairies: I placed them in for Sea Drake since they are not available in my area and going for ALOT of $. I find they are useful for mana manipulation. I know they are under powered but i haven't found what i would substitute them for as of yet.
Pithing needle main: I always side the needle in so far and always wished i had it the game before. I almost always know what i am playing after a few cards so i am rarely left wondering what i should name. I added another into the sideboard for flexibility.
Engeered explosives: I have seen some lists with 1 main and 1 sideboard and i have seen some with 1 main or 1 sideboard. I chose 1 sideboard since i find it hard to utilize it with only 1 color for sunburst and most of my artifacts are 0 mana cost.
Looters il-kor: Well they are not card advantage, but they do provide a little dig, I have been thinking of changing them to Archmage but i have not been disappointed by their shadow with SoLaS or SoFaI or Sigil.
pestermite: I have not seen these as a standard card in any post, I chose to include them and they have helped in a lot of games i played. They're ability is not as useful for late game but they are still a flying 2/1.
I haven't had the opportunity to test against many types of decks but i will give my results against the ones i have
Elves
I have had a great match up against elves pre board, post board its a little more even. With their mana acceleration and artifact destruction it is a challenge unless you get your chalice out for 1 and 3 QUICK!
Aluren
this match is a little more of a challenge. Maybe it is my draws or lack of knowledge of the deck but they seem to regularly combo off before i can effectively lock them down or do enough damage. Post board it eases up a bit with B2B and second needle.
Agro loam
This one is a challenge to me, They have chalice for 0 stopping my chalice. and then proceed to remove land and creatures with enough momentum to make it so i am not much of a threat. I have has some success when i do get a chalice for 2.
All other decks i played were on MWS online and they seemed to be against rouge decks that did not have a plan
If people have some positive feedback or some helpful suggestions, It would be greatly appreciated
Thanx
Chalice at 0 doesn't stop Chalice at 2; X is considered 0 everywhere except on the stack. When Chalice triggers, the other Chalice is on the stack. So the Chalice at 2 has manacost equal to 4. Also, Aggro Loam is very easy to beat actually (while Sea Drake does help a ton of course); you tend to be faster and have all the answers. Still, make no mistake, you can't afford sloppy playing and it's definitely a race. Blue Elemental Blast is huge, as is Force of Will, and Chalice isn't absolutely a first (or even second priority); first and foremost you want to kick ass and try to setup a position where they can't win with a DD.
What's up with 2 Sigils of Distinction? The card is ridiculously weaker than a Sword of Fire and Ice and the only reason to run them is Trinket Mage. Definitely make the swap-up. Also, 3 Sowers. You already lack power from Sea Drake; make sure you at least have the midgame covered. I wouldn't bother with Looters to improve the Chalice at 2. I'd probably play 4 Sowers straight in a meta like that; you always want to see them if possible. Also, I'd aim to get some Jittes. They kick Propaganda's ass in so many ways it's not even funny.
chalice at 0 doesn't really stop chalice. chalices converted mana cost on the stack is exactly how much you paid for it. it does stop ypur moxen though, which is bad for you.Quote:
Originally Posted by dazed and confused
EDIT. ahh, someone got there faster than me :)
Thank you, I was under the impression chalice at 0 stopped chalice since paying the chalice places counters. but yes i was wrong.
I will try 2 more sowers and try to locate some jitte's (if i can afford them) and will try 1 more sword in main instead of sigil.
thanks
In budget Farie Stompy, I would run this creature base...
4X Serendib Efreet
4X Trinket Mage
4X Pestermite
4X Mulldrifter
3X Sower of Temptation
3x Something Else
Cloud of Fairie works okay I guess. But I would probably opt for a beefier threat like Juggernaut or something.
And I would make room for 3x SOFI and 3x SOLS. So please do cut back to 1x Sigil as suggested by others.
I'm a budget Faerie Stompy player, and I highly reccommend going with Juggernauts in the place of Sea Drakes.
While CoF provides some utility and mana tricks, the Juggernaut is a big threat similar to Sea Drake and generally demands an answer from an opponent.
They do come in a turn later, and your opening might not be as explosive, but CoF isn't going to get the job done, even equipped.
Well with CoF you can do stuff like T: city for 2 and T: island for 1 then untap them when you play CoF then re tap both to play juggs, but that would depend on them not habing a counter and having both ect..
I took out CoF and replaced them with Juggs and replaced the Il-kor with 2 more sowers for now (untill i get sea drake or a new broken card comes out.
What is the thought of archmage in maindeck though? its a beater and counter. Is it just not as good as the rest of the creatures in the main?
Although I haven't much experience with FS, I agree on this. I did quite a lot of goldfishing and I had to mull to 5 almost every single game, because I either was flooded or screwed. Don't know if this was just MWS.Quote:
There was a Legacy tournament in Prague yesterday. 54 ppl, I went 3:3 and nearly fucking threw away the deck. It loses to itself more times then to opponent... Any kind of shit could happen, mainly with manabase - no land mulligans, manascrew, color screw, six lands in the row.. I was affraid of Pernicious Deed.. lol, I should have been worry of FS more.
Don't worry, you'll come back to FS quickly.
I threw it away (litteraly) twice after shitty tournaments, tested for another more stable deck then came back because it's so good. The most actually played decks are good MUs. You just need some luck.
Shit happens, that's all.
Otherwise, I'd play goyf sligh or counter slivers, because they're awesomely good decks. Team America at worst.
Am I the only one who doesn't like Force of Will in this deck? I can rarely pitch it.
I think I would rather run two Rushing Rivers and two more creatures.
well, i like this list a lot,
I've tried the 7 or 8 (2)-mana lands, and I found 3 Cities to be the correct number
I still havent found much use for the Engineered Explosives in a mono-colooured deck yet..
It will be interesting to see what (Lorwyn) changes you think affect the deck
i think i will adjust my build close to your list...
I think I will try this: -
============= 22 Mana
4 Ancient Tomb
3 City of Traitors
10 Island
4 Chrome Mox
1 Seat of the Synod
============= 17 Creatures
4 Serendib Efreet
4 Sea Drake
4 Trinket Mage
3 Mulldrifter
2 Cloud of Faeries
(?) Sower of Temptation
============= 21 Other Spells
4 Force of Will
3 Thirst for Knowledge
3 Sword of Fire and Ice
2-3 Umezawa's Jitte
4 Chalice of the Void
2-3 Trinisphere
1 Pithing Needle
1 Tormod's Crypt
0-1 Engineered Explosives
============= Sideboard
4 Back to Basics
4 Blue Elemental Blast
3 Propaganda // 3 Sword of Light and Shadow
2 Tormods Crypt
1 Pithing Needle
1 Engineered Explosives
I personally wouldn't ever even consider dropping one of the double-lands... What exactly is your motivation to do that?
Force of Will and Trinisphere both maindeck is a recipe for disaster.
CoF can be better in some situations but I think (I might be wrong here) that the general agreement is that Pestermite should replace it. Mulldrifter should probably be a 4-of. Playing one Sigil of Distinction is always a safe bet.
I'd go
-2 Cloud of Faeries
-2/3 Trinisphere
-0/1 EE
-1 Tormod's Crypt
+1Mulldrifter
+1Sigil of Distinction
+3Pestermite
-3Thirst for Knowledge
+2 Sower of Temptation
+1 Pestermite
For the sideboard, I'd probably drop the BEBs and replace them with Glen Elendra Archmagi.
Then again, all this is just my opinion- don't take my word for it.
Not sure about you but, I sure do love killing Nimble Mongoose, clearing Pithing Needles on my equipment, and blowing up that little known card Sensei's Divining Top.Quote:
Originally Posted by Judge_Julez
In all seriousness, how can you not run at least one Engineered Explosives main deck. The thing is stupid good, you can play it around Chalice of the Void and Counterbalance.
I would suggest against this. Blue Elemental Blasts help answer turn one Goblin Lackey on the draw versus Goblins. It is also "the nuts" versus Aggro Loam.Quote:
Originally Posted by JeroenC
My 2 cents.