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By the way, Sensation Gorger is awful.
Parity effects are only good when you have a way to take advantage of them that your opponent doesn't. Vial Goblins doesn't have said way to take advantage. Therefore Sensation Gorger is trash. Oh, and, card for card, is there a deck in Legacy that plays worse cards than Vial Goblins?
Threshold.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tacosnape
Edit: oh, yeah, substance.
Sensation Gorger is just screaming "Break me!" But I don't think it's gonna happen in legacy. Not gonna lie, plucking four cards a turn sounds sexy.
Not even close. Thresh has "Basic Land - Island", and those alone are more broken than anything in Vial Gobs. :lol:Quote:
Originally Posted by TeenieBopper
Quick question for those of you playing r/b, how are you dealing with plagues, deeds, and other nasty enchants? Also how are people dealing with breakfast?
Meta I am in still has enough goblin hate in it to screw me over. I'm playing 3 color with grips right now, but some games I just cant get a grip out. My friend also runs a 2 color breakfast which is a real pain, so seeking knowledge on this as well.
vs E Plague: 1 Mad Auntie MD, 3 SB. Tutorable guys (that swing) that negate otherwise do-nothing enchants that must be topdecked > E Plagues
vs Deed: lay a driver, lay a cheif, matron for auntie or keep a matron/ringleader in-hand. Also, they WILL have to tap out to bust deed (CMC 4/5 for SCG or Ringleader) you probably win after this happens. tldr; dont overcommit. Apply pressure, they tap out for two turns to reset the board. Haste > tapped out GB player not playing FoW
vs Breakfast: Be in the X-0 bracket, you'll be playing good combo like TES and grim iggy,not psuedo combo BS like breakfast. If Breakfast is domanant in your MU, 4 fanatics main and possibly a few incinerators. Wierdings. Leylines in the side if you really must. Tinkerer/tin street their vial. Win fast.
Ya i started out using 4 leylines, but if I don't get it on opening hand, they are pretty much 4 wasted slots in the sb.
i had completely missed shattering spree, i forsee dropping green :)
try needle for breakfast
I guess you could needle vial to slow them, but you'd better have about 10 needles, as they run 4+ different en-kor creatures, and the illusianist's ability is triggered, not activated.Quote:
Originally Posted by savemysoul
I know on some versions of breakfast, needle on kiki helps. It keeps them from cloning sky hussar.
Oh, are you talking about full english breakfast or cephalid breakfast? Both are pretty poor in the current meta, but ceph is T1.5 as it does have Force, daze, vial, and goyf as a backup plan. Full english hasn't been played (or placed, I should say) in any recent large tournaments I can recall, probably an aspiring Tier 2 deck.
EDIT: just remembered that I'm posting in a goblins thread.
Don't play needle in your goblins SB unless you're expecting a lot of survival/alluren (still weak)/deed in your meta. Combo-hate is more necessary than winning more against decks you already have decent MUs with.
Most of the builds I see run only two. 4 Nomads En-Kor and a single Shaman En-Kor.Quote:
Originally Posted by Media314r8
I think you're seriously underestimating Needle. It won't shut down Cephalophalid Breakfast by itself, but not much does, and it's fantastic at solving a ton of problems RB can't handle otherwise.
Agreed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tacosnape
Landstill - Pernicious Deed, Manlands
Breakfast - Nomads En-Kor
Survival - Survival
Aggroloam - Seismic Assault
Aluren - Cavern Harpy
X Stompy - Jitte
Solves alot of problem cards like Deeds, Jittes and Assault are those decks answers to weenie swarms. Survival and Breakfast engines sort of flop when you needle them. Needling Top is sort of underwhelming, but I probably wouldn't board it in against Thresh.
If you're going to play Needle in the board, I highly recommend studying the crap out of the major decks and learing what you can needle. For example, it is often the right move to needle the cycling lands in loam, or the Morph creatures in whatever.Quote:
Originally Posted by from Cairo
Also, while you should almost never preemtively needle Jitte, you should def name Sword of Fire and Ice ASAP as once it is attached, needle will do nothing (unless you kill the now pro:red creature).
Know your cards, and know their decks and needle will be a great tool.
If they are playing 4 Forgotten Cave and 3 Tranquil Thicket this seems like sort of a blind guess. If you Needle one and they get the other than you pretty much wasted the Needle. Even w/o Cycling lands if they have been shut off an Loam in yard and an Assult on the board means Goblin's is getting Wrath'd every turn, just by foregoing one's draw for dredge and returning 3 land to hand. If you Needle Assault they having Burning Wish and Dev Dreams as there only answers for board clearing effects and you've Needle'd out a win con.
Also most lists I've seen of Dragon Stompy have moved to Light and Shadow rather than Fire and Ice, since it doesn't wreck hellbent. I guess if game 1 you saw Fire and Ice, yea you'd name that.
Know your cards, and know their decks and needle will be a great tool.
Morph can't be needled, it is a game rule, not an activated ability. See haterator.dec (unmorphing exalted with dampening matrix in play) and TS block constructed and willbending split-second spells. If you're boarding in hate for Loam's CA and boarding out goblins, you're losing. I agree with survival and deed, but loam, breakfast, and alluren hardly have problems dealing with needle, so boarding out guys to deal a tempo blow to them seems poor. (about half of deed decks also run vindicate, and will probably vindi your needle before blowing up the over-committed board)
I respect both Phantom and Taco, but knowing rules > laying down a four-of 'hate' card in your sideboard and hoping your opponent will scoop em up. (esp in the case of a morph.)
Don't get me wrong, I love me some needle, I have 1 MD and 1 SB in FS and 3 SB in Tog, but I really think there are better options in an aggro deck like goblins with no trinket mage, ect to tutor for/draw it. (needle is not a goblin)
So, how to build a good sb for Rb? Maybe we can agree on the basis of building a good Rb goblins' side.
- 3-4 Aunties (depending if you play 1 MD)
- 4 Graveyard hate (Tormods or Leylines)
- 4 Discard suite (Therapy/duress/thoughtseize)
- 3-4 Slots depending on meta. This could be Needle, (magus of the) Blood moon, Shriekmaw, Terminate, Smother, Pyrokinesis, Perish, EE, more discard, more grave-hate, Shattering Spree, more tinkerers, sharpshooter, etc.
Are we agreeing on that? Remember it's straight Rb, no green splash.
I've actually been considering oafelsnout for the goblins SB, as you can vial or flash him out in response to a dread return to fizzle their target and rfg thier bridges, and I don't forsee them 'playing it safe' and slowrolling goblins. He can also be flashed out to rfg a dredger, DA, or return if they do therapy you. Seems fine, if only he were a goblin... then again, he's a better topdeck than leyline and he doesn't mind being bounced.
I really think the discard should be thorns or Chalices, or some combination of both in the remaining slots, as discard just doesnt do much against TES or IGGY, matches you really, REALLY need to win games 2 and 3 of. (them having brainstorm or bob + your discard = not a combo) Most combo (save for alluren and life in some cases, but not as prevalant as storm) can recover from discard pretty quickly, things like thorn and chalice for 0/1 they really have to deal with before they can storm off. This gives you the time you need to kill. Chalice is my weapon of choice (with my controversial 4 thorns MD) as it doesnt cost you any tempo to set at 0, and if they DO wish for shattering, then if you've drawn another, you can usually drop it before they untap and resume their attempt to combo, again for 0 mana.
Are you having problems beating Breakfast? I can give you a hint: Turn 1 Mountain, Fanatic, go.
Of course, you guys are cutting him for Sledder or some shit, so I can see how that would be an issue.
ah no shit you dont say...:rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by Nightmare
hmm whats that daze, oh fow, oh stp, shall i continue?
but ya i md 4 fanatics still.
Actually, Vialing him won't do anything. Killing him after vialing will. Note it's "when leaves play", not "when comes into play". Play Stonecloaker. Ok, just kidding.Quote:
Originally Posted by Media314r8