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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
Quote:
Originally Posted by
John Cox
Wasn't it given out at Gp London (2005) or something? I for some reason thought it was a foil that had an association with a GP.
Judge foils are given to judges at GPs and PTs, yes. 2005 is probably around the right time frame for Sol Ring.
Judge foils are currently only distributed for one year and then retired, so only about 1600-2200 are given out, total, worldwide. Older foils were a bit more random in distribution, but Sol Ring was one of the more limited ones.
GP foils are given to everyone that enters, so they end up relatively common.
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
I was wondering if now would be the best time to buy Primeval titans (just two, not for speculation). It's about to be reprinted, so it might go lower, but if it's still standard playable, then It might go back up. What did it used to be, 45 USD a piece?
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
Quote:
Originally Posted by
cdr
Judge foils are given to judges at GPs and PTs, yes. 2005 is probably around the right time frame for Sol Ring.
Judge foils are currently only distributed for one year and then retired, so only about 1400-1800 are given out. Older foils were a bit more random in distribution, but Sol Ring was one of the more limited ones.
GP foils are given to everyone that enters, so they end up relatively common.
Does the number of judge foils from last year top at 1800? I don't see why Phyrexian Dreadnought is only 25$.
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
Quote:
Originally Posted by
tsabo_tavoc
Does the number of judge foils from last year top at 1800? I don't see why Phyrexian Dreadnought is only 25$.
No more than 2200 max by my math, and probably a little less than that. And quite a few judges keep theirs and those never enter the market, so quite a few less than that are actually available. John Alderfer alone probably takes 50+ of every foil out of circulation every year.
And yes, judge foils are generally undervalued IMO. I don't think people start to price in the rarity until they suddenly stop being available when they rotate.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
hyperchord24
I was wondering if now would be the best time to buy Primeval titans (just two, not for speculation). It's about to be reprinted, so it might go lower, but if it's still standard playable, then It might go back up. What did it used to be, 45 USD a piece?
There's going be a heck of a lot more Titans in circulation, but the bannings did make it more playable in Standard. I'd wait until after M12 unless you see a good price - it's not going to go up much if at all, and it should fall even more once Valakut is about to rotate. Baneslayer Angel was probably as good or better than Titans at the time, and getting reprinted murdered its price.
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
I wonder what would happen to prices if I were to Top8 an SCG Open (or even Top16), with a Land Equilibrium, The Abyss and Chains of Mephistopheles, plus a Nether Void for good measure in the sideboard, even if I never brought them in?
Hmmm...
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Mr.C
I wonder what would happen to prices if I were to Top8 an SCG Open (or even Top16), with a Land Equilibrium, The Abyss and Chains of Mephistopheles, plus a Nether Void for good measure in the sideboard, even if I never brought them in?
Hmmm...
SCG will love you for sure.
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
So would I, just for the sheer amount of style points. Reading the forum posts alone would be priceless. If someone has a chance to do that, they most definitely should. lol
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
Just not until after I get an Abyss...
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TheAardvark
Just not until after I get an Abyss...
Yeah the Abyss has to go up, it's just way too iconic a card to never see play and it can put certain decks out of the game pretty quickly in a control shell. I'm actually surprised it hasn't shown up as a 1x in more BUG control lists sideboard at least.
On a related note, wow did Jace and SFM bounce back quickly. Jace is starting to run about 60+ each already and SFM is almost back to around $8 a piece.
Granted they could dip again as they only officially become illegal Friday.
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
Quote:
Originally Posted by
dontbiteitholmes
Yeah the Abyss has to go up, it's just way too iconic a card to never see play and it can put certain decks out of the game pretty quickly in a control shell. I'm actually surprised it hasn't shown up as a 1x in more BUG control lists sideboard at least.
I agree. Almost to the point that I might speculate. It's very hard to find. It has to go up at least steadily. It took two decks doing very well with Candelabra as a 3-4 of for that card to sky rocket. What would happen if you ran it as a 3-4 of is some control deck? If it starts showing up in decklists, if it's around a 90-dollar card now (depending on where you buy), imagine the possibilities!
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
Quote:
Originally Posted by
dontbiteitholmes
Jace is starting to run about 60+ each already
They're $50 or less on ebay. A pair of Japanese sold for $120. English are $45-50.
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
Quote:
Originally Posted by
dontbiteitholmes
Yeah the Abyss has to go up, it's just way too iconic a card to never see play and it can put certain decks out of the game pretty quickly in a control shell. I'm actually surprised it hasn't shown up as a 1x in more BUG control lists sideboard at least.
I went ahead and pulled the trigger for an Italian one for $45. Not a great deal, but it's fine with me, since I need one for EDH. The last big Legends piece I need is a Moat, and I am probably going to just let that one go; not worth it to me, really.
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
I tried Abyss in BUG control at one time and found it just sucks against the aggro decks. Too slow for Zoo, Merfolk it's not too horrible, but they tend to put in guys at the EOT anyway, Goblins have haste and just power through it. The speed was the killer. I ended up using Drop of Honey and it worked much better. Even Damnation was stealing the spot most of the time.
My Abyss went into my mono-B creatureless EDH deck because I'm a meanie and do things like that.
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
English Abyss on Ebay has been floating around $60, so don't get too excited boys (yes, a mint one went for 90, sure. But, Mint anything old goes for top dollar).
The Abyss is a fine card, but usually slow against the decks you'd want it against.
-Matt
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
Quote:
Originally Posted by
sdematt
English Abyss on Ebay has been floating around $60, so don't get too excited boys (yes, a mint one went for 90, sure. But, Mint anything old goes for top dollar).
The Abyss is a fine card, but usually slow against the decks you'd want it against.
-Matt
Oh, I agree, and was why I said the $45 wasn't a great deal; pretty much average. I think the card's potential growth is tied more to EDH than Legacy, honestly.
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
Just picked up two Italian The Abyss. I attended the SCG Open in Baltimore and they were sold out and asked curiously why all the sudden everyone was looking for them. This is one of those cards that hasn't done any real damage yet, but it is more than likely going to wind up shooting higher in value. The Abyss has always been a card waiting to breakout, and it looks as though the time is ripe for that to happen.
It's always been a great card; the biggest issue is finding a deck worthy of its inclusion for it to be optimally effective. I think an artifact-based control variant could give it a home, or even something along the lines of BUG. It just needs to breakout for its value to serious jump to astronomical levels (like Moat did when people actually realized how good it was before sitting at roughly US$70.00 a piece for years). I think an English NM The Abyss will round out at around US$150.00, with Italian NM ones floating at about US$100/110.00. This is very hard to predict, but I think if someone just finds the right shell for it, it just might work.
I could be wrong here, but it's safe to assume the card is going to see a slight increase in value in the short-term. Once it sees more widespread play, it could jump higher - or even double - in comparison to the price it currently sits at. Older cards just tend to do that no matter how "playable" they might seem, although playability certainly affects the price. The Abyss is a nasty card in the right deck and deserves a chance to shine after all these years.
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
My, there goes Solemn Simulacrum. From $6, gonna go all the way down to, oh, $2? Maybe not, cuz there is a lot, and I mean a LOT of chaff in M12, damn.
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
I think Abyss has a lot of value as a sideboard card. It may not be the best card for the aggro matchup, but vs. Midrange aggro decks that rely on 8-12 creatures to do the job it can be a real ball buster especially if the opponent doesn't think to sideboard for it. Examples Team America, Junk, Stoneforge decks.
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
Ah well, there it happens again. Self forfilling prophecy. Everybody thinks it will go up. buys it, increases demand, and it goes up.
Anyway, I don't think it is worth to push the abyss, really, think about it, is it that good in legacy ? I have my doubt's.
It's not even good against midrange decks, cause they have often a lot of small dorks sittin aroud who are expandable ..
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
^This is akin to everyone buying stock in one company just to make the stock more valuable. I wonder why people don't do it. I think it's because it's hard to get evryone on the same page about which company and to buy in. Just because a few sourcers want to speculate doesn't mean it's going to rise. But then again, they are VERY hard to find.
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
A couple of days ago there were 4x Near Mint The Abyss at SCG for 79.99 each.
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Mr.Dieth
Ah well, there it happens again. Self forfilling prophecy. Everybody thinks it will go up. buys it, increases demand, and it goes up.
Anyway, I don't think it is worth to push the abyss, really, think about it, is it that good in legacy ? I have my doubt's.
It's not even good against midrange decks, cause they have often a lot of small dorks sittin aroud who are expandable ..
As I explained, I bought one because I needed one for EDH. I bought now because it can realistically only go up, not down (or stay static, I suppose, but I strongly doubt that) for various reasons, and I figured I would get one at an average price before I actually put a deck together with it and needed one and then find that they'd risen in the interim. If I were speculating, I'd have purchased more than 1, you know?
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
I actually bought 2x English Abyss for $69.99 from SCG. On Ebay they were ending around $60-80, so I decided to pull the trigger 2 months ago to pick them up. I know the card most definitely has potential (it's slow but devastating when online against aggro decks). It is also incredibly rare, and on the reserved list IIRC. I would also advice picking up Chains of Mephistopheles and Nether Void because you know that someone is going to Top8 at a SCG event with Chains+NetherVoid+Abyss with a deck called the Legendary Black Deck, and SCG is going to ramp those cards to $200 and buy them for $150 because they are ultra-rare and on the reserved list and only 250-1000 copies are in circulation.
Lol :P
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Mr.C
My, there goes Solemn Simulacrum. From $6, gonna go all the way down to, oh, $2? Maybe not, cuz there is a lot, and I mean a LOT of chaff in M12, damn.
Solemn will drop a bit unless it's in a solid Standard Deck, which it likely will be, and then it'll go back up a bit. Old school foils of Jens will likely go up further becuase they're OOP and the "og" version, so EDH Players are going to desire those more than the foils of the new one.
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Metalwalker
I actually bought 2x English Abyss for $69.99 from SCG. On Ebay they were ending around $60-80, so I decided to pull the trigger 2 months ago to pick them up. I know the card most definitely has potential (it's slow but devastating when online against aggro decks). It is also incredibly rare, and on the reserved list IIRC. I would also advice picking up Chains of Mephistopheles and Nether Void because you know that someone is going to Top8 at a SCG event with Chains+NetherVoid+Abyss with a deck called the Legendary Black Deck, and SCG is going to ramp those cards to $200 and buy them for $150 because they are ultra-rare and on the reserved list and only 250-1000 copies are in circulation.
Lol :P
The Abyss and Nether Void do not play well together since one will destroy the other.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Mr.Dieth
Ah well, there it happens again. Self forfilling prophecy. Everybody thinks it will go up. buys it, increases demand, and it goes up.
Anyway, I don't think it is worth to push the abyss, really, think about it, is it that good in legacy ? I have my doubt's.
It's not even good against midrange decks, cause they have often a lot of small dorks sittin aroud who are expandable ..
LOL, someone give this guy a tissue. I'm not pushing anything, just discussing what may or may not go up. If you "invest" in Magic cards and you don't own a store you are officially doing it wrong. I have 2 Italian Abyss's, I got one because it's a card I've wanted since the first time I saw it and I never owned one before, then I got a second because it was $35 and I can trade it for more than that if I want.
Seriously speculative buying of Magic cards for profit is stupid since unless they go up in value quickly in a very short amount of time you aren't making shit and you still have to sell the cards. If you sell them on Ebay that's a ~13% cut off the top + shipping and handling+packaging and you get screwed if you don't insure the cards with delivery confirmation and they get lost. So unless they go up at least 30% in value Ebay is out and without Ebay you still have to find someone to pay the price you need for a profit for them. I mean it's easy to say you buy Confidants @20 then you sell them for $30 and make a $10 profit. Really though who is going to give you $30 on the street for a Confidant? If I wanted them that bad I would have already bought them off Ebay. So you just sat on the cards for 2-3 months and made maybe $5-6 a piece on Ebay or marking them down to a price people will actually pay, wow you are balling out of control, next stop Wall-Street.
Seriously, will you crybabies just get out of this thread. I don't care that you think people here are driving up the prices of cards, the prices of cards have been going up long before this thread was around and if you want to point fingers, point them at SCG. People who speculate cards are idiots. I know someone was talking about their friend who bought 70 Confidants @ $15 and yeah that's cool, but how many times has dude been burned before? How many playsets of cards that haven't gone up in years are sitting at his house? How long did it take him to purchase 70 Confidants at a fair value and how long will it take him to sell them at a fair price? Will he realistically get more than $8-10 profit a card? I mean Confidant, Candelabra, Time Spiral, dual lands have all gone up considerably this year, but outside of T2 cards how many other cards would have been profitable to speculate? How many cards had a 30%+ rise in value in under 3 months?
Wouldn't it just be smarter for someone trying to profit off cards to announce locally that he buys cards and pay under Ebay value then just be assured of making a profit instead of hoping he picked the 1/2000 card that jumps 100% in value in a month? I mean if it takes you and hour to pick through someones binder and put everything on Ebay and another hour to ship, is that not the safer bet than spending $1000 buying 70 of the same card and hoping it doubles in value before it gets reprinted? I mean if a card goes from $15 to $25 unless you have a store you are either spending a long time trying to sell @25 or you will realistically get $5-7 profit off it. If that takes an hour to accomplish, congratulations you are now making under minimum wage.
So in conclusion, going around the neighborhood offering to cut grass is probably more profitable then speculating MTG cards and complaining about this thread = GTFO, probably 95% of the people reading this thread for speculation are more looking to get cards for their collection before they jump.
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
"Getting the cards before they jump" is what causes the speculation, and causes them to go up.
Jeez.
-Matt
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
Quote:
Originally Posted by
sdematt
"Getting the cards before they jump" is what causes the speculation, and causes them to go up.
Jeez.
-Matt
Not entirely. I mean just because some people on a forum say something is probably going to go up isn't going to make it a "self fulfilling prophecy" as everyone likes to say. The cards that have blown up in value did so because they were undervalued, they saw new uses and were extremely rare, or because SCG reestablished their baseline price. If you want to blame anyone blame SCG. Really though Tabernacle went up because of Lands, Candelabra went up because of High Tide (now it's coming back down because of MM), everything in Welder aggro went up when that guy won the SCG event, Dark Confidant was a $25-30 card the whole time and no one noticed. It saw play in Vintage and was an extremely powerful and popular card in Legacy for a long time and it almost always goes in as a 4x. Compare Dark Confidant to Crucible of Worlds, a $15 card that is never a 4x, is much less played then Confidant, and was reprinted in 10th edition. Then look at all the cards that haven't been mentioned in a while but are currently popular in Legacy that have quietly gone up over the past couple months ex. Natural Order, Show and Tell, ext. It's not like this thread really has any bearing on card prices in the long run. There are plenty of cards mentioned here that aren't going through the roof and there are plenty of cards that are not mentioned here that are steadily climbing.
With or without this thread card prices for Legacy stuffs are going where they are going. Without a deck there's no demand and it's all vapor. The cards rise and fall with the decks, look at Candelabra, it's been falling ever since Misstep and it fell out of favor in High Tide. It's dropped about $50 overall since its peak. This thread is just a bunch of Magic players discussing cards that have potential to go up and what cards we think are undervalued. Anyone who is going to speculate on cards does not need this thread, think about it. If people are going to come and complain like there is some conspiracy to drive up prices I'm going to continue to tell them to GTFO.
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
On a related note FTV Relics is still near retail on Ebay for some reason, this is what people might call a "smart buy."
FTV Mox Diamond ~$25
FTV Sol Ring ~$15
FTV Nev Disk ~$8
FTV Vial ~$15
FTV Scepter ~$6
FTV Sword of B/M ~$15
Total of just those cards ~$84
Quote:
From the Vault: Relics, Unopened
View similar active items | Sell one like this
6 Bids
Sold
$65.00
+$5.00 shipping End Date:Jun-29 16:21
From the Vault: Relics, Unopened
View similar active items | Sell one like this
7 Bids
Sold
$66.00
+$5.00 shipping End Date:Jun-29 16:20
You do the math.
I bought 2 when they came out and I'm gonna hold on to them unopened for a while. Then maybe in a couple years I'll trade them for some cards I really want when the value of unopened FTV:R is higher or maybe just hold on to them long term as collectibles.
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
Quote:
Originally Posted by
sdematt
"Getting the cards before they jump" is what causes the speculation, and causes them to go up.
Jeez.
-Matt
Yes, this is true. If one, two or a group of people went out and bought the thousands of copies because they decided one day that they were going to "speculate." This does not happen on a whim. There has to be a good reason, like someone T8ing with a really rare old card.
Do you really want to whine about the four people in this thread who went out and bought The Abyss?
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
That's not a bad deal really, but I am waiting to see the effect of having that many Sol rings in existence now. The commander decks will affect things quite a bit. The Mox Diamond is never a bad buy though and neither is Vial. Though Vial is on my unstable list. I don't like picking those up.
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Mr.Dieth
Anyway, I don't think it is worth to push the abyss, really, think about it, is it that good in legacy ? I have my doubts.
It's not even good against midrange decks, cause they have often a lot of small dorks sittin' around who are expendable ..
It's up to you, not to erase those doubts .. The Abyss is my Stack #5 and #6. EDH is for dorks.
http://img849.imageshack.us/img849/3826/superstax.jpg
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
It's good in the deck's it's good in, but you can't throw it into Merfolk, let's put it that way.
-Matt
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
check the availability of
Basalt monolith
mesmeric orb
blasting station
it's ... well just check.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
majikal
That deck is so much ass. It's like Breakfast only worse. I've noticed Chapin shilling for it like it's the next big combo deck, but I just don't ever see it doing well.
yeah i guess you r right, on the other hand not fearing creature removal or MM is not that bad...
but yeah it's a bit fast to be sold out as there are no notable results (except the 4/62, no offence to the result though).
Quote:
Originally Posted by
whienot
Pithing Needle will shut down Basalt Monolith. Monolith's oracle text is {3}: Untap Basalt Monolith.
forgot that part my mistake !
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ryO!
check the availability of
Basalt monolith
mesmeric orb
blasting station
it's ... well just check.
That deck is so much ass. It's like Breakfast only worse. I've noticed Chapin shilling for it like it's the next big combo deck, but I just don't ever see it doing well.
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ryO!
yeah i guess you r right, on the other hand not fearing creature removal or MM or pithing needle is not that bad...
Pithing Needle will shut down Basalt Monolith. Monolith's oracle text is {3}: Untap Basalt Monolith.
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
What is this deck that people are talking about? link please? Thanks!
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Metalwalker
What is this deck that people are talking about? link please? Thanks!
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=309361
4 Horsemen created by Finn. It was recently featured in a premium article by Pat Chapin I think, and it top4'd a 62-man tournament (Report is in this site too).
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
The deck really isn't that great. It doesn't have anything really interactive and just sits on autopilot for a few turns trying to setup mediocre acceleration. It's kind of like Hive Mind in theory (both decks use the Show and Tell into Emrakul plan, which is really just a poor excuse to forgo the base combo and crutch on the back of another), except the win condition is much more fragile.
I think a large reason why the deck did so well in a tournament that size has to do somewhat with novelty; I mean it's not anyone expected to deal with Mesmeric Orb.
UPDATE: Good thing I picked up my two The Abyss when I did.
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Hollywood
UPDATE: Good thing I picked up my two The Abyss when I
did.
The Abyss is still far behind behind Moat, Wrath of God/Damnation, Firespout, and Drop of Honey for sweepers... It might have some niche Commander value but other than that I don't see it getting more play than it currently does (i.e. none).
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
I honestly think that has yet to be seen. People didn't realize how truly good Moat was until years later when it spiked over two-hundred fifty dollars in value. The Abyss is splashable and rounds out a nice curve in the right deck, in addition to not forcing you to shore up any removal over the course of the game.
The Abyss is a pure control element, unlike most of the cards you mentioned which are situational. Dropping an Abyss when there are no creatures on the board is even more crushing than when there actually are, because now you've essentially forced your opponent into dropping multiple threats at once - inherently forcing your opponent to deplete his or her resources in doing so.
The Abyss also works proactively and stays on the board. Most of the cards you mentioned require multiple colors to be effective in a one-time use. The Abyss is superior to each of those cards, with the arguable exception being Moat - which doesn't answer threats while they've accumulated.
I think you're incorrect on The Abyss; it's an extremely powerful card in the right deck.
