Printable View
It really depends if the meta is full of goyf or miracles. In the case of GP SEATAC it was both... with shardless and miracles being the most played decks. So either choice would have been fine (goblin.dec or planeswalker.dec) but I probably would have tuned moggcatcher to include some Koth.Quote:
Originally Posted by ZTurgeon
Nice to see Stormbreath represent. Thought it was pretty ambitious to run the typical 18 land and then four 8 drops and three 5 drops without seething song. Glad it worked for you. Cool list. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Barook
Now that you mention it, I would probably rebuild the deck with 19 lands and cut Pia and Kiran Nalaar for another Mountain.
Yeah, I've been running 11 mountains for a long time now. I don't know how much it affects things, but it feels decent.
10 mountains vs 11. Doesn't seem like much but it can be.
http://peterniemeier.com/mtg/1.png
http://peterniemeier.com/mtg/2.png
Bonus stats for funzies (based on 8 sol lands, 4 moxen, 4 guides, 8 moons, 4 chalice, 4 trinisphere)
http://peterniemeier.com/mtg/3.png
10 vs 11 lands is the difference of mana screw of 1 in 30 games.
Given a Grand Prix has 15 matches, 30 games isn't irrelevant.
Personally, I have never found miracles to be a hard matchup once I started keeping in blood moons. It's intuitive because they have so many basics but I am convinced at this point that it is thr right call. They run tons of basics yet run double blue and double white cards, but can get away with it because of so many fetches. Stopping there fetches normally takes them off double white and probably double blue, but more importantly makes there brainstorms and tops into trash.Quote:
Originally Posted by Blastoderm
Yes, I have always had some slower card advantage cards in the board of the goblin version for them other grindy decks, but I have found a ton of my success against them revolves around landing a blood moon or chalice on 1 to take the top out of the equation and then forcing them to 1 for 1 with their removal. Once they don't have the top spinning them into the right spell every turn, they have real issues against the red stompy decks because they simply do not have the removal for every threat. When you cast a SCG and then have a plow, they are in trouble. When you land a moggcatcher and then need to terminus it, thats a win.
1st Place at South Florida Magic Legacy with moggcatcher yesterday.
Main:
4 Moggcatcher
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Magus of the Moon
4 Bloodmoon
4 Simian Spirit Guide
3 Trinisphere
3 Chrome Mox
2 Goblin Settler
2 Kiki-jiki, mirror breaker
2 siege-gang commander
2 Umezawa's Jitte
1 tuktuk scrapper
1 murderous redcap
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
8 Mountains
Board:
1 Goblin matron
3 Ensnaring Bridge
2 Stingscourger
2 Goblin Sharpshooter
1 Krenko, Mob Boss
1 Goblin Chieftain
2 Faerie Macabre
1 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Tuktuk Scrapper
1 Sulfur Elemental
Outside of two rough rounds in a row where my head just wasnt in the game, I went undefeated.
Rd1: American Delver
-he mulled to 5 game 1 and still almost stabilized before I could run him over
-game 2, chalice on 1 followed by moggcatcher controlled the game
Rd2: Turbo
-8 maindeck moons and 2 settlers spelled a quick win
Rd3: Miracles(First match on camera)
-head was not in the game, game 3 I should have been a bit more aggressive with my moggcatchers since I knew I was running matron specifically for this matchup, still played it the safe way and lost because of it.
Rd4: Shardless bug
-game 1 never found a threat after landing a moon, lost to a 3/4 goyf
-game 2, never drew the colored mana source after scrying to the bottom
Rd5: Modified modern burn
-burn is not my strongest match even with jitte, ended up running over him with turn 1 trinisphere followed by rabblemaster both games
-kept magus in since he was running atarkas, boros, and destructive revelry. kept him from handling my hate cards
Top 8 Matches:
Quarterfinals: ANT
-Game 2 he has the turn one against my turn1 moon hand, he is on the play. He punts by saying black off his LED rather than red, few turns later and I run him over with siege-gang.
Semifinals: Turbo
-Surprisingly he has a very positive winrate against bloodmoon decks, he has a history of playing painter and werewolf stompy. The 8 moon+2 settlers in the main pretty much guaranteed the match was even heavier in my favor than it used to be. He lost to double magus+double bridge game 2.
Finals: American Delver
-He believes its nearly unwinnable but its a pretty solid match if I dont find the chalice and get a solid board presence against truename. He also wanted to go home and me not to play it super safe the final game(I normally play safe to avoid making terrible calls, so playing prison while getting in for the win is usually my goto route).
Normally, unless I see D&T in the room I wouldnt play sulfur elemental, and it was only sided in against miracles, in retrospec I would have preferred it was koth but those are currently out for getting signed at GP Pittsburgh. The 8 moon effects was surprisingly strong even with a pretty heavy amount of burn in the room(3/20 that I saw) and I am tempted to keep it that way. Not sure I like 2 settlers in the main but I do love the card and I can definitely play it how I feel that given day, alot of times I will play a chieftain or krenko/stingscourger in that spot. Jitte is just another way to hedge against D&T and burn but I find myself needing it less and less.
There were 0 sneak and show players in the room today, so I did not side against it.
Good job man! I like seeing different peoples' takes on the Goblin build. I'm not sure if I like the double Kiki-Jiki, but the rest looks solid.
I have been on the double kiki plan for awhile. Sometimes it is not what I want but I have no qualms about imprinting it since I have a second copy, or if one is stuck in my hand, or if I need to do some endstep 3 moggcatcher shenanigans(or blow up 2 lands in a turn or something similar).
I saw this list from an event in Conneticut. Love it
8 Sol
10 Mountain
4 SSG
4 Magus of the Moon
4 Rabblemaster
4 Thunderbreak Regent
2 Stormbreath Dragon
3 Sudden Shock
1 Outpost Seige
4 Blood Moon
1 Chandra, Pyromaster
2 Koth
1 Fire and Ice
4 Mox
4 Sphere
4 Chalice
Sideboard
2 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Ratchet Bomb
2 Tormod's Crypt
2 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Sulfur Elemental
3 Pyrokinesis
1 Chandra, Pyromaster
1 Koth of the Hammer
1 Shattering Spree
@ArielBlaze is that you playing at 2:30?
http://www.twitch.tv/southfloridamagic/v/25949134
I took Koby's GP SeaTac list for a spin at my weekly.
There is evidence of my round 1 win against Manaless Dredge on the internet.
http://www.twitch.tv/phlogisten/v/26482539
Game 1 @ 7:00
Game 2 @ 18:00
Game 3 @ 28:00
That Source playmat is sweet.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ace/Homebrew
Taking kobys list to my lgs on sat. Haven't played stompy for a bit so psyched to get back into it.
Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk
Yea it is,they were having updating difficulties with names/decktitles at the start of the round, I played an absolutely terrible game 3 that round, head wasn't in the game that or the next, atleast I came back to take first.Quote:
Originally Posted by lilevo
Missed his Chancellor on your chrome mox @ 7?Quote:
Originally Posted by Ace/Homebrew
Nope!Quote:
Originally Posted by rlesko
We resolve mulligans and he announces Chancellor as a pre-game effect. I stare at it and comment that he is on Manaless Dredge and how it makes my (double Blood Moon) hand much worse. I play City of Traitors, then Chrome Mox. He again points out the Chancellor's trigger and I pay for it with City, floating :1:. He acknowledges that my mox resolves and I imprint Blood Moon. I tap the mox and exile a Spirit Guide (so I now have :1::r::r:) to play Blood Moon.
I did see you guys almost forgot to exile his bridge at that one point.
True. :wink:Quote:
Originally Posted by Zupponn
Took Koby's list (with the changes he said he'd make; add a Mountain, drop mama + papa Nalaar) to the Top 8 of a small monthly event.
+2 Fiery Confluence
-1 Sulfur Elemental
-1 Pyrokinesis
R1, 2-1 win against Miracles
R2, 0-2 loss against Painters Servant
R3, 2-0 win against ANT
R4, 2-0 win against Reanimator
R5, ID with Elves
Top 8, lost 0-2 against Miracles
Only changes I'd make at this point are more Fiery Confluences in the board. :smile:
So since C15 came out, I am 17-4-2 in local stuff and a 52 man SCG IQ with this list, with the 2 draws being intentional, with all 4 losses coming to Death and Taxes. I'm going to be trying to change up the board to be better against it, but we will see what becomes of that. Rite has been good in the grindy or control matchups but it might not be needed. Magus of the Wheel has been a solid card with a big body, the ability to unlock cards spent on tempo and the ability to mess with miracles and Stoneforge activations and combo decks. Confluence has been amazing.
4x Goblin Rabblemaster
1x Goblin Settler
1x Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
4x Magus of the Moon
3x Magus of the Wheel
4x Moggcatcher
1x Murderous Redcap
2x Pia and Kiran Nalaar
1x Siege-Gang Commander
4x Simian Spirit Guide
1x Tuktuk Scrapper
4x Chalice of the Void
3x Chrome Mox
3x Trinisphere
4x Blood Moon
4x Ancient Tomb
2x Cavern of Souls
4x City of Traitors
10x Mountain
Sideboard (15)
1x Boartusk Liege
3x Ensnaring Bridge
3x Fiery Confluence
1x Goblin Sharpshooter
1x Null Rod
2x Pyrokinesis
2x Rite of the Raging Storm
1x Siege-Gang Commander
1x Stingscourger
i played legacy for the first time in about a year and powered my way into top 8 at a 50 person IQ. i got bounced by burn in the quarters of top 8, but the deck was pretty dope. the numbers might be a little weird mainly since i thought the IQ was gonna be standard so i had to throw a deck together in about 15mins.
3 abbot of keral keep
4 magus of the moon
4 simian spirit guide
4 rakdos pit dragon
4 avaricious dragon
1 moltensteel dragon
1 magma jet
4 chrome mox
4 blood moon
4 trinisphere
4 chalice of the void
2 umezawa's jitte
1 sword of war and peace
1 sword of fire and ice
4 city of traitors
4 ancient tomb
2 cavern of souls
9 mountain
Sideboard
3 draconic roar
1 anarchy
2 boil
1 sulfur elemental
2 tormods crypt
1 Chandra pyromaster
2 sudden demise
2 smash to smithereens
1 phyrexian revoker
fortunately, the shop i was at streams their tournaments. i managed to get under cam for a couple of rounds. which is rad since there isn't enough dragon stompy coverage out there. http://www.twitch.tv/nerdragegamingl...42659?t=55m36s and again at 1:44:00.
also, myself and a fellow red mage do a podcast dedicated to red cards. we'll probably cover the tourney on this weeks pod. here's a another link for some info on the pod https://www.reddit.com/r/spikes/comm...y_contest_and/ . we're also giving away free stuff. so if you're into free stuff give it a peep.
How were the abbots? They don't seem that they would work too well in Dragon Stompy.
Went 4-0-2 and got to the semi finals in a ~50 person with blood moon this past weekend. Lost to elves on camera after he had his forest in his opener both games and played very well, I flooded out a bit as well and was on the draw. I think I'm a dog on the draw vs. elves if he's knows what I'm on. I expected 20% shardless derp, and we ended up with 9 BUG decks out of 48 people. 2 lands decks as well.
http://mtgpulse.com/event/22420#311764
watch me get wrecked here
http://www.twitch.tv/tuskvision/v/28585549?t=06h32m17s
https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...53087301_o.jpg
Congrats man!Quote:
Originally Posted by nedleeds
Were both draws intentional?
Share your list.Derp!
Why did you opt to go with the smaller guys and equipment and lack of trinisphere?Quote:
Originally Posted by nedleeds
I think that might contribute to the elves issue, as that match up is very good, even on the draw.
I've found that the equipment, no matter how powerful, is a fool's errand. When you are spending 2-3 cards to pump out a turn 1 lockpeice, you don't want to be left with an equipment with no creature. Additionally, when you are running stuff like magma jet main, this only compounds that issue as your creature count is lower. Scab-Clan and Flamespeaker just seem like worse rabblemasters. Yes, you probably can't run all 4 caverns if you go this route, but haveing a threat be 2R is so much better than having it be 1RR.
I really just don't understand why you chose that threat base, when it would seem to lack the raw power of Dragon Stompy and the flexability of Goblin Stompy.
Derp! List was in the first link you listed.
Creature [20]
4 Magus of the Moon
4 Prophetic Flamespeaker
4 Simian Spirit Guide
3 Phyrexian Revoker
3 Scab-Clan Berserker
2 Avalanche Riders
Instant [4]
4 Magma Jet
Artifact [12]
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Chrome Mox
2 Sword of Fire and Ice
2 Umezawa's Jitte
Enchantment [4]
4 Blood Moon
Land [20]
8 Mountain
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Cavern of Souls
4 City of Traitors
Sideboard:
4 Faerie Macabre
2 Stingscourger
2 Smash to Smithereens
2 Sudden Shock
1 Anarchy
2 Sudden Demise
2 Tormod's Crypt
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZTurgeon
I agree that trinisphere slows elves down quite a bit. However, I'm going to disagree on a few things here.
"Seems like" and reality aren't always the same. My empirical evidence is that equipment just wins games more often than when you have equipment and no threat or no equipment and another card.
Additionally, I suggest trying Flamespeaker and Rabblemaster. They're hard to compare. I think the 1RR has been demonized in this thread. After playing it for a while not, it's actually not very difficult to get.
I'll let nedleeds explain his card choices but you can go back some pages to get a more in-depth reasoning for including some of these cards.
Kind regards,
I essentially only lost because he raw dogged Forest in each opener. Other than that I destroyed the event, so I'm pretty sure the list is fine. Umezawa's Jitte and Double Strike / Trample is game over. My mana curve ends at 4 so I never get mana screwed. I have no interest in a Grey Ogre for 2RR that does nothing the turn he comes into play and gets boned by all kinds of hate cards. I had no interest in casting Seething Song and running a higher curve because I wanted to reduce awful top decks (of which there are still plenty in any stompy deck). My deck is mostly humans, which means in games when I don't resolve a Blood Moon or Blood Moon is awful I can still win. I have no interest in having a hodge podge of types if I'm running 4 caverns. Trinisphere is awesome, and I've cast it a billion times and crushed people with it but I wanted to play without it for the following reasons.
- I wanted to play Revokers main and you throw in 3 more colorless cards and Chrommox becomes very unreliable
- Trinisphere isn't very good on the draw in a room full of Deathrite. Go. I expected almost no storm combo in the room.
- I replaced it with Scab-Clan. Which can be almost as big a problem for storm anyway, and it pins under a mox, and its a clock, and it's uncounterable much of the time, and it eats planeswalkers for breakfast
I beat
Lands
Reaniderpator
BUG Agent
Omniderp (SCB dealing 18)
Shardless Aluren
I double drew in which in hindsight was a bad idea, I should have played for the top seed vs. Infect. Having the play is worth the risk. Regardless I won a tundra.
https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...fe&oe=56DA3A90
Also, Anarchy was a piece of shit. Should have just been Boil or some better anti-miracles card, Omen of Fire maybe.
It does, but mostly on the play. I'd argue a turn one moon or chalice one on the play is sufficient. DRS go on the draw has lessened 3balls efficacy a great deal. It's still the nuts vs. combo and if you are running more than 2 stone rains. I'm only running 2 stone rains.Quote:
Originally Posted by Octopusman
I agree. All but the high mana curve actual dragon stompy lists (of which I've had success with also) are full of Grey Fucking Ogres. I have 10 Grey Ogres if you include Avalanche Riders. Equipment is the best way to make them not dog shit. It's also defacto removal. I think SoFI vs. other SoXY is certainly up for debate. But the card draw prevents losing to just flooding which stompy decks tend to do. It lets you press the advantage. The shitty part is it makes chrommox shitty, thus cutting 3ball to get the red count to something more respectable.Quote:
"Seems like" and reality aren't always the same. My empirical evidence is that equipment just wins games more often than when you have equipment and no threat or no equipment and another card.
Directly attributable to how reliable your chrommoxes are. I am running 4 Caverns. GRM is a good card but I just want my threats to be uncounterable. In a vacuum Rabblemaster is probably the better card, factor in equipment though and Flamespeaker is insane.Quote:
Additionally, I suggest trying Flamespeaker and Rabblemaster. They're hard to compare. I think the 1RR has been demonized in this thread. After playing it for a while not, it's actually not very difficult to get.
I'm well aware of flamespeaker. I played him as a 4 of up until Rabble was printed. Rabble has just been better for me in every way since. And yes, the 1RR vs 2R is a big deal. With 20 colored sources (4 caverns/8 mountains/4 chrome mox/4 SSG) you have a 12% chance of missing double red by turn 3, while only a 1% chance of missing missing single red. That's a huge deal over the course of a long tournament. Yes, the Moon effects midigate this, but we are looking to win games when we don't have moons out, because the ones where we do are so heavily slanted in our favor already.Quote:
Originally Posted by Octopusman
Thanks for the input and congrats on your prize! I'll have to take a closer look at your list. I've never used Scab-Clan Berzerker.Quote:
Originally Posted by nedleeds
Thank you to ZTurgeon for numbers on chance to miss double red by turn 3.
Congrats nedleeds! It's cool to see the very different directions that you can take with the basic Stompy shell. I think that each version has its own merit depending on what meta you expect to walk into.
Hey guys,
So I'm getting into legacy and am looking for a first deck (besides burn). I've always thought that dragon stompy lists were super cool, and they're well within my price range too. But how competitive are they? I always thought of this deck as solidly tier 3, however it looks like many people on this thread have been doing quite well with this deck recently. Would you recommend this deck to a spike-y player looking to get into legacy?
That depends on what style of play you like. I am an advocate for stompy decks because by and large they are inexpensive and perform fairly well. Depending on your builds alot of times you are weak to soft permission and a quick threat also consistancy in your draws can be an issue with some builds (why I play 8 tutoring creatures in my moggcatcher list). If those arent things that bother you as a player then yes id say stompy shells are worth a try.Quote:
Originally Posted by Figurative
I do enjoy stompy decks, as I am part Timmy. I don't like inconsistency but I realize it's something that comes with the deck and I could live with it. Like I said before though, I want a deck that will put up results, enough to make going to 1Ks sustainable.Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiteHeart
Inconsistency is definitely a thing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Figurative
Inexperienced players will lose often because their starting hand is "okay". Not being afraid to mulligan hard and often if necessary is essential to success with this deck.
Nedleeds' approach of trying to avoid crappy topdecks is a good one.
Dragon Stompy is considered Tier 2, but like any metagame deck, it's success depends on the prevalence of certain decks and the likelihood of what you're going to encounter.
You used to get paired against goblins constantly which wasn't great but that isn't really the case (at least in my area) anymore.
Additionally, you want to get paired against burn because chalice on 1 hits their deck like a truck. Trinisphere is also great here.
Also, I felt the deck struggled against Merfolk (vial/basic islands) though some claim it wasn't a bad matchup. Merfolk is also not exactly prevalent currently.
Unfortunately, Miracles is widely played and I, personally, have an issue combating it with this deck. However, greedy manabases are also at an all time high. Moons are strong right now and I don't see them getting weaker any time soon. If Miracles' popularity declines, it will be even better.
The deck is very fun and you can experiment with different threat packages. I highly recommend it and have played it with much enjoyment for many years.
Cheers,
Alright that makes sense. I have noticed that it hasn't placed very highly in many recent events, but I guess that's a result of what you just said. Is this deck a hidden gem, or does it deserve to be low in tier tier?Quote:
Originally Posted by Octopusman
As for the builds, I was testing the one equipment build that has popped up. I know there's also a hellbent build and a goblin build -- any others I should know about? Is one just best right now?
Lastly, you said you have played this deck for a long time and enjoyed it. What build are you on? How well have you done?
Thanks.
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/cards/oa...ra-flamecaller
So how does everyone feel about the new Chandra? I can only see it being potentially a one-of, because six mana is a heckuva lot, but its abilities fit pretty nicely with what we want to be doing. The zero is very powerful when we're out of gas, the minus is great because we typically don't have that many way to deal with creatures, and her plus can aid us when our opponent is locked out and we want to quickly clock them. Could just be only a sideboard consideration too, for matchups where our planeswalkers have always shone, like vs. Miracles etc. She then begs the question whether Koth or Chandra, Pyromaster are just better though.