I think all versions of Tin Fins use Goryo's Vengeance with EmrakulQuote:
Originally Posted by oliverpool
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I think all versions of Tin Fins use Goryo's Vengeance with EmrakulQuote:
Originally Posted by oliverpool
I think it is really rare to see this happen because they only run one Emmy.Quote:
Originally Posted by oliverpool
The number of Emmys in the list has nothing to do with how often they can do the described play (Entomb for Emmy, Goryo it)...Quote:
Originally Posted by GoblinZ
I was just thinking. Would you think playing Manamorphose would make sense? Its a cantrip so thins the deck a little plus it can give you white mana if you do not already have a plateau or lotus petal. I understand that for IP there is little else we can cut to include in Manamorphose. Just a thought though.
What would you cut for it? Also what does it honestly gain?
To answer the earlier question, Tin Fins is named after a Sea Lab episode.
What do you think about Martyr of Ashes?Quote:
Originally Posted by Dice_Box
Good card, I use to use it before Delver became a big issue locally. Now I am playing the R/W build though and the Artifact count has increased, not so useful any more. But Mono Red, it can win you games.
Petal gives you white mana and a better chance at a T1 Moon effect. Manamorphose can help you get through your deck, but nothing more.Quote:
Originally Posted by oliverpool
Additionally, we are pressed for space as it is. This seems liek an empty slot to me.
Agree that petal still makes more sense as it can be left on board to let the opponent think you have a blast in hand. Its also a artifact for the welder. The only card that I can see Manamorphose fitting in is the lotus petal slot. But ya petal probably is still much better.Quote:
Originally Posted by cab0747
Not able to join in live but just watched the first recording. Love your optimism! Simian Simian and haaa... Got to learn that trick someday...Quote:
Originally Posted by Kap'n Cook
It is a shame: There are a lot of cards I think we would like to add, but just do not have the space for. I have been dying to MD Koth, but it is tough to justify cutting anything. Especially in the Rw version.
I thought I was stronger than Batterskull .. Interesting rip / helm! In what quantity? And in that mu put it in?Quote:
Originally Posted by drude1
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Any matchup that you bring in RIP. Just an extra win con.Quote:
Originally Posted by spector14
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And any matchup where they play Extirpate effects, RiP is also key in DRS/Eldrazi matchups.
So we can side in rip/helm against: eldrazi deck; bgx aggro control/ tempo, dredge, ecc.??
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spector14
Yes, all of those plus I side it in against Miracles as it's a more difficult combo for them to deal with and more Miracles players have 1-2 copies of snapcaster these days. Helm is also very good at milling their deck even without the RIP out.
I'm still really having trouble with the Miracles matchup though. I played against it in the daily last night and if they get down the early counterbalance it's really hard. My secret tech of word of seizing definitely helps and in the second game I had a top out and bet I looked at 15 cards without seeing one (of 2), which would have won me the game against an ultimate Jace. Still, does anyone have total confidence in their Miracles matchup and, if so, how? The problem is, this is such a prevalent deck right now that if the matchup is that bad then it's not even worth bringing this deck to a real tourney. My only hope is that 12-post gets really popular to kill miracles and then we can prey on them.
In my experience, the top/CB lock is pretty close to gg. However, I wouldn't say that Miracles is a bad match-up. It may not be in our favor, but I don't think it is bad enough to not bring Painter to a larger event.Quote:
Originally Posted by drude1
The deck is real big on MTGO. While this is annoying, I do not think it will dominate the meta at a larger event like it does online. Even if a lot of people are on the Miracles bandwagon in November, I will still jam painter at GP NJ.
If the meta shifts, and becomes unfavorable for us, I may have to jam a TON of DnT or UWR delver just before the GP. Blahhhhhh, I hope burn doesn't pick up again!
Games against miracles are very skillful and full of interactions. Your grindstone can interact with the top of their library and this creates a lot of mindgames.
In general, i don't think the matchup is that bad. You have to be conscious that they have inevitability, so you can't durdle forever. A fast combo can get the job done sometimes. A fast moon sometimes annoys their manabase enough that you are able to win before they do relevant things. Other times it gets grindier and then you can try the beatdown mode with recruiter into recruiter that is decent against terminus. also ensnaring bridge can stop their angels but then you have to ensure that they don't land a jace. Don't miss any occasion to casually mill them with grindstone because there is the small possibility that the game goes very long and you naturally mill them. Obviously do whatever you can to prevent them from assembling top/counterbalance. Koth is very good against them but unfortunately he can't be tutored.... a singleton vexing shusher may help too.
Overall , you just mustn't play scaried. If i think about it , i could say that miracles is favored against every deck in the format (except maybe goblins or fring tier 2 decks ? ) , because they have answers to everything and inevitability in the long game. But like every pure control deck, they need to see their answers at the right time or they can randomly die. I could go as far as saying that if they don't see top they are a quite bad deck.... so don't have fear, look them straight in the eyes and make them have answers to everything you throw at them.
Ahah thanks for the full and pretty answer! The right for This alternative combo is 3 rip and 1 helm or more? And when side in helm/rip goblin welder it's an automatically side out?Quote:
Originally Posted by drude1
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I did some goldfish with the standard strawberry shortcake version with the idea to force a moon effects as soon as possible and here are the results.
First, the «methodology» :
- Every 7-hand with no possibility of turn 1-2 moon or combo is mulliganed.
- Every 6-hand with no possibility of turn 1-3 moon or combo is mulliganed.
- It is really goldfish and plays are not optimal. I just looked at the possibility of blood moon or magus as soon as possible even if it is dangerous (for example keep a hand with city of traitors, moon, guide and no other mana source)
- I did 50 simulation (I know it is not enough)
The results :
Moon turn 1 : 22%
Moon turn 2 : 50%
Moon turn 3 : 10%
Combo turn 2 : 4%
Combo turn 3 : 2%
Other : 12%
Some remarks.
I didn't look at dropping an early bridge, but in some matchup it can be a good idea too.
Combo turn 1 is possible but unlikely (combo, sol land, 4 guides/lotus)
I didn't keep track of possibility of moon turn 2/3 with backup instead of 1/2 without.
I didn't made the distinction moon/magus.
Hope it will be helpfull.
My friends all play miracles so it's actually the match up I've had the most testing against. I dont feel like it's awful but it's certainly a deck I'd rather avoid. Largely my game plan against them plays out one of two ways. If I can combo them extremely quickly, I always, always go for it. I ignored virtually whatever they are doing, regardless of mana open etc (very different from how I play twin in modern). They have 2-4 swords and force as their only real outs to this and often they just can't do anything. Maybe I'm just a bit lucky but I find that, especially in game ones, to have a lot of success with this. I'm sure you play similarly though. My plan B if I can't combo them right away is all about blasts. I do everything I can to blow up and counter top/counterbalance. Also sounds pretty straightforward right? The key here though is never to get fooled by moon. Blood Moon is straight awful in this match up. Not so bad that I'd board them all out but the plan of blow everything you have on an early moon almost never works against miracles. Top+a ton of basics and they'll always draw out of it. Also, forwarding my gameplan is always second to holding up as many blasts as I can because if they ever have the turn where they assemble their combo then all the work you did getting yours together is basically wasted time.Quote:
Originally Posted by drude1
Ok. Couple of quick questions forQuote:
Originally Posted by chrstphrbrnnn
You. How many blasts do you play main/SB? What else do you side in for the MU? Are you still all in on the combo or do you go for alt win cons, eg Koth, rip/helm, etc? I really want to sure up this matchup and would honestly devote a good 5-6 cards to the MU if I knew it would make a big difference. Right now I am playing 5 blasts main but none to bring in from the board, mostly because I wanted to try word of seizing to steal and use their Jaces against them. It seems line I lose to a Jace ultimate 8-10 matches. I'm actually now considering siding in my leylines just to slow Jace down as well. Maybe I should just load up on blasts and jam the combo hard. I will admit I tend to lean on the moon if I can hit it early. I've never loved Koth but if others have good luck with it I would consider trying it again.
Again, this is really the only MU that I absolutely hate seeing (although I don't love any deck with Eldrazi in it). Really want to strengthen my approach.
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Play my shortcake list card for card if you want to beat miracles. 65-70% for the matchup. As long as you focus solely on stopping balance, jace, and angels they can hardly ever beat you.
Hey, can you post your current list again? Are you still playing a piece of equipment in your main? I really don't like firebolt any more but other than that i think I play a pretty similar list to yours. I'm also running the leylines over the 3sphere, etc but that is kind of a non-issue in this MU. Maybe I just need to max out on blasts, as that seems to give us the best chance.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kap'n Cook
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If I remember correctly, the equipment was Sword of Light and Shadow.Quote:
Originally Posted by drude1
Jack, could you expand a little on why this is good against miracles? It seems to me that it give us a viable beat down plan (making anything pretty much unblockable except by Snappy and Clique) and that if they want to use removal on it, they need to do it in response to the equip. This would make us positive to go off (unless they have Wear//Tear).
Is this the idea or am I missing something big?
I just played against Merfolk. I thought it would be easier. I won 2x1, but chalice, echoing, Hurkyl's Recall and fows were really boring. :D
Forgot to post results from our weekly Thursday night Legacy event.
Round 1: UR Delver (2-0) won
Round 2: Dredge (0-2) lost.....was playing against a friend and I wasn't playing tight.
Round 3: Reanimator (2-0) won
Round 4: Burn (0-2) lost :cry:
The very first thing you go for is Jaya Ballard..... She's a BEAST in that MU :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Tiago
Any criteria on hands to keep/ship back in the matchup? odds of drawing into good cards against them? etc?Quote:
Originally Posted by Kap'n Cook
I am still playing the pretty standard R/W 75. I've been thinking about the Stoneforge package though, but haven't committed to it yet. Hardcore testing for Jersey starts this week so I'm going to put some time into it. So since I'm on the stock 75, I have 7 blast effects (6/1) so I bring in the 7th and a ratchet bomb post board. I'm on the fence about Koth, I do think that having another wincon is good and a four mana one is pretty solid but I'm just scared of koth as a card because his lacks any synergy and there's no ability to search for him. I usually focus on Jaya if I am trying to win with a different way than the combo. I usually side out at least a moon effect (Magus if I feel they're heavier on the creature removal, sometimes just a regular moon). I do like the bridges because I find angels more threatening than Jace (being heavy on the blast, I do my best to keep Jace out of it) but I'm not sure I like the 3rd bridge so I sometimes choose not to bring it in. It kind of comes down to how much I respect my opponent. If I think they're at all able to lose to moon, I'll leave more in but if I feel like they're going to respect it with basic fetches, I might cut another for another bridge. The only two guaranteed cards are ratchet bomb and the 3rd REB tho.Quote:
Originally Posted by drude1
An interesting idea comes from Brad Nelson's mono red sneak attack though. He played four Rabblemaster in the board and his reasoning was because it's insane against miracles. While this isn't exactly the same for us (since swords is better against our deck than sneak attack), we still have the ability to play this card on turn one and make them have it or lose. Rabble's tokens are far more likely to deal real damage in legacy and he becomes a single card threat that demands removal they'd want to spend against the combo. He's also tutor-able. Might be worth some testing?
Jack just texted me he is in the Top 8 of the open get it Jack!
That Red/Pyroblast Stack...
Oh man and I was worried I missed the match when I saw SCG tweet Jack Kitchen in the quarter finals (40 minutes late)
LOL!
Congrats man
When Dan started to get careless with his force of wills I was so hoping that Koth would somehow pull it out.
Hilarious match to watch, good job Jack.
The early painter might have been a bit aggressive. I would have just kept the mana open. Great work overall! I look forward to a report followed by many of the same 10 questions regarding your side boarding and card choice over and over and over....
Jack got 4th? I missed it and just saw the finals. They said dan beat a painter in the semi's which I assume is Jack?
aaaw man, fell asleep right after the Invitational final..... So close to watch a iPainter player... It's been so long :(
http://static.fjcdn.com/comments/act...f26c1c0696.jpg
That feeling when paired against Lands in the semi's
I know that feel, way to go Jack
Congratulations to Jack! Why you put a Sword of Light and Shadow in the sideboard?