I suppose sb against sneak&show should get most attention since the others are on the whole quite rare.
Printable View
I suppose sb against sneak&show should get most attention since the others are on the whole quite rare.
http://www.vintagemagic.com/buy/art-...agepoxart.html
Just going to leave this here :)
Thank you guys for your advices.
I'll change the "lock down" slot for more relevent cards like pithing needle, bridge and maybe some surgical extraction.
Do you prefer a Main Board Dark Ritual IoK/Hym Split or a No Ritual IoK/TS Split?
I'm down to 3 ritual mainboard and thinking to send them to the sideboard.
If only I had the money...Quote:
Originally Posted by jredelstein
I always mainboard 4 Dark Ritual. The turn 1 Liliana is the best start in practically all game 1 situations. When you learn you won't die in 3 turns, then I board out my Dark Rituals for sideboard relevance. Even if you run into Force of Will, Daze, or Spell Pierce, the risk to reward ratio is just too gorgeous.Quote:
Originally Posted by coricho
I don't split my Hymns with anything. 4 IoK/4 Hymn/4 Dark Rit. There's no reason to run any less. Discard is only good in the first 4 turns so having them come up asap is not a bad thing. Late game, the gamble is your land destruction has slowed them from emptying their hand so your discard can still be used on say, that Swords to Plowshares since you're Nether Spirit is 'hiding' in the Graveyard. DR still has its uses when you're less than 3 land and you still want to cast that Night of Souls' Betrayal late game.
Does a pox list with hecatomb exist? i really like that card :really:
maybe.. bitterblossom, cabal therapy, stifle, hecatomb? that sort of cards..
I like that too, but it simply is too underwhelming for any one to try.
i think hecatomb is just a nonbo with the entire pox strategy, you also destroy your lands in the process of poxing so i don't think we can fully utilize hecatomb's ability..i'd rather swap all my swamps for snow-covered ones and run withering wisps instead..Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex Holland
I used to run that build a while ago. It's very effective in non-aggro meta, ironically enough. I found that if I'm getting face smashed, the Wisps couldn't 'turn the game around' without killing me. However, if you can keep a 1 life point lead, you win!Quote:
Originally Posted by zenitramleirdag
oh yeah! i remember that brew, Arctic Pox: the Legend of the Frozen Witch, right? he he he..Quote:
Originally Posted by OmniStrata
in mono black, my sweeper of choice is toxic deluge..drown in sorrow is decent and the scry effect is handy, especially in mono black where library manipulation is scarce, however, there are some cases where it wouldn't be enough to kill a big tarmagoyf, a tasigur or an angler..
are you still running spinning darkness in your 75?
i run 1 main and then another 2 in the side to help with the aggro matchup, especially burn..
Ah, the memories, title courtesy of Umi Neko. Drown in Sorrow is effectively the super(ior) version of Infest. I no longer run Spinning Darkness but I keep going back and forth on a single Murderous Cut due to being able to Delve 1 of my 2 Nether Spirits in case of GY clog. In my board, the 3 E. Plague and 3 Ensnaring Bridge is enough for any aggro.Quote:
Originally Posted by zenitramleirdag
For Burn, Contamination will uh, yeah... ^_^ It definitely works, I was just dumb enough to sac my Contamination instead of my Mishra's factory as I top decked a Crucible of Worlds... :cry: I'll never live that moment down, the guys around me almost boo-ed in agony with that play...
Meta-changing my sideboard. Since aggro seems a bit less and GY strategies aren't as prevalent. My board now looks like this.
2 Pithing Needle
4 Contamination (ah, it's a 3 mana time-walk!)
3 Engineered Plague
2 Ensnaring Bridge
2 Extirpate
2 Leyline of the Void
Ultimately, control and mid-range are my worst nightmares at this point. Casting Contamination to stall and buy 1-3 turns is definitely worth it if I can feed it factories and then Crucible them back later in game.
Last tuesday i got a 3-1 record with this deck, which is acceptable.
4 Bloodghast
4 bloodsoaked champion
3 Gurmag Angler
4 the rack
4 liliana of the veil
4 Pox
4 smallpox
4 hymn to tourach
1 wrench mind
1 toxic deluge
4 chalice of the void
4 bloodstained mire
12 swamp
2 urborg, tomb of yawgmoth
1 dakmor salvage
4 wasteland
Sideboard:
3 ratchet bomb
4 engineered plague
4 surgical extraction
3 darkblast
1 wrench mind
My result was:
2-0 Grixis Delver
2-0 Burn
2-1 Spanish Inquisition
1-2 burg? SFM and no delvers.
Rack and liliana was game winning in several duels. I also got the rack countered once (fear the rack!) if you can believe it!
My loss to SFM was a reminder i got a weakness there. The solution will be the second toxic deluge, and four Disfigure in the sideboard.
The Darkblasts, alas, are not strong enough.
MTGTop8 has 4 Brainstorm in approx 75% of top 8 decks, with blue cantrips clearly dominating the metagame.
Time for maindeck Chains?
Thinking of sleeving this up.
//Lands: 23
4 Wasteland
4 Mishra's Factory
3 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
12 Swamp
//Spells: 25
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Innocent Blood
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Sinkhole
4 Smallpox
3 Raven's Crime
2 Pox
//Permanents: 12
4 The Rack
4 Liliana of the Veil
1 Chains of Mephistopheles
1 The Abyss
2 Cursed Scroll
//Sideboard:
3 Extirpate
2 Duress
1 Chains of Mephistopheles
2 Toxic Deluge
2 Ensnaring Bridge
3 Pithing Needle
2 Tombstalker
Run both chains in main. Cut one Raven's crime.
Hi guys,
after a long MTG-break and a few small experiences with Death and Taxes I decided to play Mono Black Pox again.
In Hamburg, Germany I played this list:
1 Cabal Pit
4 Mishra's Factory
11 Swamp
4 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Wasteland
4 Dark Ritual
4 Innocent Blood
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Sinkhole
4 Smallpox
3 Hymn to Tourach
1 Infernal Tutor
4 Liliana of the Veil
2 Cursed Scroll
1 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Night of Souls' Betrayal
1 Nether Void
1 Nether Spirit
1 Tombstalker
Sideboard:
1 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Extirpate
2 Sphere of Resistance
1 Trinisphere
1 Chain of Mephistopheles
1 Contamination
1 Ensnaring Bridge
2 Engineered Plague
1 Spinning Darkness
1 Damnation
1 Toxic Deluge
Here is a small report of today:
Match 1: UR Delver
Game 1: He starts with Volcanic into Brainstorm and failed to find the second land for a few rounds. I had the Wasteland and 17 life at the end.
Game 2: This was a longer game and unfortunately for him his delver missed 3 chances to flip. I attacked his manabase and win on 2 life. He got only one land but enough Bolts in hand. My deck decided to give me topdeck Nether Void. :)
1-0
Match 2: RUG Delver
Game 1 and 2: He killed me both games slowly with Nimble Mongeese while I had all the answers in my hand. I keept good hands, but was not able to get 3 Mana in turn ~10.
1-1
Match 3: Miracles
Game 1: Discard and Ritual into Liliana was too strong for him.
Game 2: Great Game for me; Chains of Mephistopheles, Liliana with ulti, Night of Soul`s Betrayal (I saw 2 Cliques in Game 1) and finally Contamination with Nether Spirit got it!
2-1
Match 4: MUD
Game 1: Mana denial with Crucible and Ensnaring Bridge dominated him.
Game 2: I was able to control early to lategame until he got chalice on 1,2 and 3. After that he drew Karn and killed me in the last extra turn.
2-1-1
Match 5: TES
Game 1: He starts with Gitaxian Probe into land and Ponder. Looks like combo. He had a Duress in hand but my hand was not too scary for him so he ponders instead. My turn 2 play was Ritual into topdeck Nether Void. GG.
Game 2: My hand was Inquisition, Surgical Extraction, Smallpox and Sphere of Resistence. I won that game.
Final result: 3-1-1 (#6/30 players)
Today I always kept the initial seven and was always on the draw. The deck was super fun and very strong.
Finally my thoughts on the card decisions:
MD:
Tombstalker is by far the best finisher. He could be played through a counterbalance, block delver, fly over anything, costs only two mana etc.
Inquisition of Kozilek vs Thoughtseize is not an easy choice for me. IoK was better vs UR Delver, Burn.., TS shines against MUD and Omni; I am still not sure which is better for me.
Hymn to Tourach is a bad topdeck but performed good today. (used to play TS instead)
Infernal Tutor is super good because we operate always on topdeck-mode.
Ensnaring Bridge maindeck (target for Tutor) got me several games.
Nether Void is expensive but won me two games today.
Night of Souls' Betrayal seems good vs DnT and Pyromancer-decks. Could be moved to the SB.
Crucible of Worlds sometimes wins the game, sometimes is dead. Could be moved to the SB.
Cabal Pit together with Crucible of Worlds is a very good lategame-tech.
SB:
Surgical Extraction was very good today, I wont go back to Leylines.
Extirpate could be a third SE.
Grafdiggers Cage is for Reanimator, Dredge and Combo. Not sure how good it is.
Sphere of Resistance and Trinisphere was good today vs TES. Would come in into burn and omni, not sure how good it is.
Chain of Mephistopheles cleared the path vs Miracle!
Contamination locked Miracle out, but still is random.
Ensnaring Bridge protects me vs creatures. Maybe I should add another.
Engineered Plague two is the right number for me. Hits DnT, Elves, Goblin, Goblin Token (TES) and Merfolk.
Spinning Darkness comes in vs delver, burn, DnT ...
Damnation is the remote-button. Never used it. Maybe four mana is too much.
Toxic Deluge is a three mana board-clear. Lifeloss can be crucial so i only played one.
Feel free to comment my card-choices.:smile:
So far,
Stephan
Thank you very much for the report!
I suppose that deck is a toolbox-Pox. That is one strategy to achieve better consistency.
you love most infernal tutor that beseech the queen ?
To be honest: I did not test beseech the queen. I was curious about bbb instead of 1b, but in most situations it should do the same.Quote:
Originally Posted by hpl324
Yesterdays tourney went not as well as i had hoped but was still a good experience. I encountered some rarely played decks and got opportunity to better test Toxic Deluge, now that i own two.
The deck
4 Bloodghast
4 bloodsoaked champion
2 Gurmag Angler
3 nihilith
4 the rack
4 liliana of the veil
4 Pox
4 smallpox
4 hymn to tourach
2 toxic deluge
4 chalice of the void
4 bloodstained mire
12 swamp
2 urborg, tomb of yawgmoth
4 wasteland
Sideboard:
3 ratchet bomb
4 engineered plague
4 surgical extraction
4 disfigure
Changes: -1 Wrench Mind, -1 Gurmag Angler, -1 Dakmor Salvage
+3 Nihilith, +1 Toxic Deluge
Nihilith has several advantages. It is easy to suspend, it is not dependent of the graveyard, one can time the moment it comes into play (because removing counters are only mandatory at your upkeep, at other times it's voluntary), it can be hard cast, and lastly it has fear.
I have boarded out Gurmag when I suspected my opponent bringing in Rest in Peace. The Zombie Fish was an interesting experiment but it is not that hot.
My sideboard changes:
-1 wrench mind, -3 Darkblast
+4 Disfigure
Being pawned by stoneforge mystic was something i felt had to be prevented. Darkblast was not strong enough and led to excessive dredging.
My first opponent plays a traditional sneak and show. I was quite unprepared for that since I had forgot what he usually play. A critical factor was that he won the dice roll and thus went first in duel one and two.
This is a difficult deck to handle because of its redundancy.
I suppose lots of discard and surgical extraction would work best.
Next opponent played Enchantress.
This happen to be a difficult opponent too, also because of redundancy.
If you kill enchantress he still has enchantments that fulfill the same function. His win con is Rest in Peace and Helm of Obedience.
I got mana problems in game three. Should have done a mulligan.
Having made the deck SFM proof it was only fair i encounter and defeat one.
Interestingly Toxic Deluge was better than expected here. In one duel I got one countered and had to play the second too. That was eight life points lost just to remove a batterskull and SFM (possibly a DRS too, but i am not sure).
Unfortunately my opponent had five lands and could re-cast the germ. However with no other creatures for protection i could play big pox and remove threat and lands more permanently.
The last match was against another oddball: Imperial Painter.
First duel I struggled to remember what his deck did. He got a fast painter out and proceeded to counter my spells in a quick fashion.
I played chalice of the void set for two, but the grindstone cost one to play. Darn.
Chalice set for one won the two consecutive duels however:)
Funny tech was Shattering Spree that could destroy my chalice. Clever, but it didn't help at that stage.
so, 2-2 vs. bizarre combo decks.
What is the way forward here?
I think maybe moving Chalice to the sideboard and add Inquisition of Kozilek.
A third Toxic deluge in main deck would be fine too.
Thanks for the report!
I saw your reports a few times. Those lists seems to be aggro-pox while i used to play very controllish. Thats why I have a few questions. :wink:
Bloodghast looks great for me, which creatures were the best for you? Which ones were not that good?
I see that big pox is great with recurring creatures, but in theory 4 seems too much for me. How do you think about that? Because you play Smallpox and Wasteland.
How good is chalice in a deck that could not cast it turn 1?
with 4 big Pox, 2 toxic deluge and 4 bloodstained mire, not to mention the 4 surgical extraction at your side..your life can get dangerously low often..
also i'm not sure why you're running the mires instead of factories, i'm assuming they're for the angler's delve? i feel the fetches are not really that necessary..
and yes, with no spot discard like inquisition of kozilek, thoughtseize or duress; or even rituals to power out an early liliana or chalice, i wouldn't be surprised why you had a tough time against control..
The Rack and Wasteland shouldn't be in the same deck. Wasteland without backup from Sinkholes isn't maximum LD use. Since you're going Rack, I'd say go Cabal Pit and kill creatures with your lands instead of Wastelanding their duals. 4 Pox means faster threshold than 1-2 Pox builds. Don't mind the 1 life payments. From the looks of things, you really don't care how low you go as long as you win.
I can't play like that with my version of Pox but if you can bleed, even if you bleed down to 1 life, a win is a win. In that case, consider 4 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth. Your Pits won't bleed you if you swamp tap them.
You are correct in that there are conflicting mechanics in the deck.
Part of the challenge in construction is to figure out solutions to them.
I often go back to the Rack in my builds. It works so well with the pox effects that it is a natural inclusion.
IOKs will probably take the place of chalice next time i play.
It will be two weeks until next time, giving me more time to think things over:D
Hm. Test!
My suggestion with your aforementioned fixes + minor upgrades. I'd suggest 1 Pithing Needle just for how efficient it is. With Cabal Pits, you may not need 4 Disfigures but you can experiment with those alternatives.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hardcore
And a surprise for you, ever thought of Cry of Contrition? You have a lot of sacrifice fodder.
best creatures in order:Quote:
Originally Posted by EtwasSteIne
Bloodghast
Bloodsoaked Champion
the rest
Actually for control deck Mishra's factory is great, and so it Nether spirit. I find them to clunky though.
Playing four of everything is an old habit, but also to ensure that I draw those cards should I need them. If I had blue cantrips I could play fewer for sure.
Chalice is effective even if you can't play it turn one. It totally depends on the opponents. Against storm deck, for example, it is perfectly good to play chalice for 0 on turn one. It stops them from play their artifact like lotus petal and LED. Agains the painter deck it was enough to play chalice turn two for win.
Cry of Contrition. Hm, have you tried it yourself? Sounds perhaps too conditional.Quote:
Originally Posted by OmniStrata
Four Pits seems a lot, but I'll give it some thought. Thanks!
I've used it in a mono black aggro deck with 24 threats. You've got lots of recurring threats and what's more, you can use it on an enemy's 'garbage' creature to make them want to sacrifice their 'better' threats should the cards in their hand be essential. It is in essence a 2 for 1 after all. My Pox doesn't have enough threats, your aggro build on the other hand... :eek:Quote:
Originally Posted by Hardcore
Ah, one can use them on opposing creatures! That's quite funny:-D
I have gold-fished a list with Cabal Pit. The cards appears too slow, maybe because my deck is not controlish.
A cheap way to add extra creature kill is welcome however, so i may try them next tourney. Real testing, you know.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hardcore
cabal pit is sweet, with or without crucibles..but 4 is definitely way too many..i feel comfortable running a singleton..
i'm thinking of maindecking a copy or two of bojuka bog again, to possibly slow down those tasigurs and anglers that are all the rage these days..
Bojuka wont stop delving. Isn't there a better solution?
i'm well aware, thank you very much..Quote:
Originally Posted by Hardcore
what i'm implying is at least it would slow them down a little to not be able to cast multiples of them in a course of a game..
No offense! Sounded almost desperate only. It isn't that bad, is it?
Otoh, Tasigur with counter back -up is a problemx-(
Hello everyone, I've been building this deck for a long time and went to a local tourney a few weeks back, the meta is super developed with plenty of tier 1, 1.5 decks, I ended up going 1-3 but I think I (and the deck) can do far better in future events.
My decklist at the mooment is:
8 swamp
4 mishra's factory
4 wasteland
4 dakmor salvage
3 urborg, tomb of yawgmoth
4 mox diamond
3 the rack
4 deathrite shaman
4 skittering skirge
4 bloodghast
1 soulflayer
2 tombstalker
4 cabal therapy
4 hymn to tourach
4 smallpox
3 pox
The list I played last tournament looked very similar to this one, but I had some minor changes, like only 2 skirges, 4 racks and 2 MD extirpate (now on the SB).
The tournament report is a few weeks old, so take the meta considerations with a grain of salt, speciallt since many players there can switch decks from week to week.
Match 1Elves:
I won G1 after some attrition and getting lucky with a 2nd turn Hymn on the play, followed up by more discard. Tombstalker finished the job shortly after.
G2 he comboed on the second turn so there was not much I could do.
G3 was an attrition fest again And I won afetr he tryed to combo with few creatures to chain. Pox (saccing Ghast) plus Skirge won my first competitive match in over five years.
M2 Grixis
The dream was over preety fast G1 He chained a crazy bunch of cantrips and overruned me with Young Pyro tokens and double bolt.
I remember siding in Leyline of the void in G2 to fight Dig Through Time, and it worked, but the cantrip chains kept his hand full of answers and I eventually died to a jace Ultimate. i cannot remember correctly bc my notes are messed up,, but I made a midsized mistake in G2, casting a shaman with a skirge in play and a therapy on the yard... not a huge thing but i kept making those kind of mistakes all afternoon.
M3 BUG control
This is the match that should have won but ended up loosing to my own mistakes. With a bit more practice this will be winnable.
He plays a Jace, Liliana, Ashiok, Loam hybrid. G1 I started with heavy disruption and manage to put him on 3 life, with a ghast in play and anotherone in the yard, instead of dredging the dakmor salvage also in the yard I drew a card and casted Cabal therapy plus flashback without attacking. He ended up winning that game afterwards...
G2 I disrupted him and poxed him to oblivion
G3 we went back and forth for a long drawn out game that ended with him decking me with Ashiok and Loam recursion. A turn before he ultimated Ashiok I decided not to play a Tombstalekr in my hand to "wait for a turn to see what he does" This is not the kind of deck that holds down cards to answer the opp threats, this is hands down aggro disruption, no hold barred attack. Next turn he erased my yard and i lost motivation and the game shortly after.
M4 Deathblade
G1 he starts with a fetch into tropical island into deathrite, I cast a blind therapy naming Brainstorm and hit jackpot. Then Hymn, smallpox ghast and skirge. He conceded.
G2 Long game. We went back and forth trading discard for counterspells for a while, but eventually he landed a batterskull and sworded all my dudes.
G3 I mulled twice to find a hand with lands, and kept one with threats but no disruption, He killed me with batterskull again.
All in all I believe that the pox strategy is potent, The only real time I felt out of my game was against Swarm plus burn, otherwise i attribute the losses to missplays and being out of practice with tournament play (really, the last tournament i went was an old Extended one).
Right now my Sb looks something like this:
2 necroplasm
2 pithing needle
2 ratchet bomb
3 leyline of the void
2 engineered plague
2 duress
1 sadistic sacrament
1 massacre
Pros: The list is super disruptive, and hands with disruption and a clock are heavy contenders. First turn hymn rules. Skirge steal games, stalker seals them. If yoy play your cards right games tend to be very fast, wich leaves you time to see what the rest of the people are playing with...
Cons: Missplays, being in burn range, opp outdrawing you. Resolved noncreature threats are hard to deal with, as also are swarms.
Soulflayer is a test slot bc I couldn't find a third Stalker...
The leylines could very likely become extirpates and surgicals, to hose duals for the synnergy with therapy.
The next card on my buylist is Liliana, what can I remove for her?
In a few weeks I'll be playing again (job, college and girlfriend pull theyr weight against MTG spare time)
Thought, ideas on how to improve the list, playing tips, and any advice are welcomed.
Saludos!
liliana is not necessary in an aggressive build. Speed and disruption is key.
you got a really aggressive list there..reminds me of hardcore's builds..
if i were running b/g loam pox or b/w holy pox, i'd go for the diamonds..
but i prefer rituals in mono black..
if you're having problems with swarm strategies, then you have to run something more than engineered plagues to keep them at bay..may i suggest toxic deluge or even drown in sorrow? i find necroplasm and ratchet bomb a little tad slow against swarm strategies like elves and goblins..though i still keep a pair of ratchet bombs at the side for chalices and needles..
i was gonna suggest spinning darkness against burn but its a non-bo with your tombys and your flayer, other players here have ran sun droplet and dragon's claws, they are fairly good at what they do although they might seem a little narrow since they aint very useful against other matchups..i like running trinisphere against burn, it really hurts them, plus it also helps against combo especially if you can power it out turn one via ritual..
lastly, you might wanna squeeze in some IOK's in there, hopefully in the main..
That posted list could never be considered 'super disruptive' compared to traditional Pox. It's definitely the type to go fast games but disruption? I see 22 non-land cards that do nothing to disrupt your opponent's gameplan.
The Rack looks very out of place in that deck. With so much creature skull crushing, I don't think the opponent will live long enough for that thing to do its work. That and Liliana Rack combos well but as Hardcore said, your foe will be dead by the time you can damage with it.
DRS looks awesome though as a card that does damage, disrupts GY strategies, and provides mana.
Quote:
Originally Posted by OmniStrata
how does your list look like now omni?