All B/R update speculation.

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Originally Posted by wonderPreaux

I have secret insider knowledge but I cannot take a right and proper screencap.
Credible/10

I'm surprised there isn't a fake out there with SotF unbanned to grind out even more cash.

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The problem with these is all it takes is right click, Inspect Element, type what ever you want to effect the page locally and then screenshot.
http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/d...psa3ef53ff.png

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Originally Posted by Tammit67

You can change a page's source easily. I don't see a link to an article explaining changes so its probably fake

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Stoneforge as an unbanned card in Modern? It's fake.

http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/t...orsythe-at-pro

lol@ that horrific fake

This has to be the most anticipated B&R update in history, right?

No, the announcement that Shar was being banned in Vintage was made before the B/R announcement by a few hours. An article was put up explaining why but the list had not yet gone up. That moment, all eyes where on the announcement. Also, this time last year all eyes where on the same page waiting to know of DRS would make it though alive. It didn't.

I don't know if it is a fake or not. But Jeskai Ascendancy not being banned is something VERY weird.

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Originally Posted by wonderPreaux

It's not a matter of rationalization, its now a matter of statistics. if there isn't a statistically significant difference between usage and performance, then there's nothing wrong with the flavors of the month being blue. if you dont want to play blue, there is demonstrable evidence that you can do fine without it. if all the people who wanted cantrips to be banned went out and actually played a non-blue deck, youd see Elves, DnT and the like back in the DtB in no time

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Like I just got finished saying in the post that you just quoted, you have to somehow spin blue dominance in your mind to refute both the results AND the unfair cards which are the constituents of these blue decks or else you are just willfully ignoring evidence. I mean, we are talking about Ancestral Recall here. All the decks in the DtB are using this card or its facsimile. That's ok in your view?

EDIT: The position of your "matter of statistics" argument is a chicken or egg proposition. Are more people playing blue because it is demonstrating results, or is it demonstrating results because so many people are playing it? This goes nowhere. What does go somewhere is that blue decks can effortlessly blow you out with card advantage while nonblue decks can not. There is no getting around this hard fact.

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Originally Posted by Adryan

I don't know if it is a fake or not. But Jeskai Ascendancy not being banned is something VERY weird.

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It really doesn't need to be. Tale out Cruise in Modern and you weaken the deck a large amount.

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Originally Posted by Dice_Box

It really doesn't need to be. Tale out Cruise in Modern and you weaken the deck a large amount.

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Except this particular list wouldn't include a TC ban, neither for Modern nor Legacy. Jeskai Ascendancy itself currently doesn't put up results to make it truely ban-worthy right now, unless they want to be the laughing stock for banning a deck that has like ~1% meta reprentation.

SFM would seem too weird, but it certainly is a card that can put Delver into its place.

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Originally Posted by Finn

Like I just got finished saying in the post that you just quoted, you have to somehow spin blue dominance in your mind to refute both the results AND the unfair cards which are the constituents of these blue decks or else you are just willfully ignoring evidence. I mean, we are talking about Ancestral Recall here. All the decks in the DtB are using this card or its facsimile. That's ok in your view?

EDIT: The position of your "matter of statistics" argument is a chicken or egg proposition. Are more people playing blue because it is demonstrating results, or is it demonstrating results because so many people are playing it? This goes nowhere. What does go somewhere is that blue decks can effortlessly blow you out with card advantage while nonblue decks can not. There is no getting around this hard fact.

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The thing is you can beat blue if you want to. People just don't want to because they don't like dead cards against the rest of the field, but if blue is 70%, why not main deck hate. People want to play bad decks and want to beat blue. You can't do both.

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Originally Posted by Finn

Like I just got finished saying in the post that you just quoted, you have to somehow spin blue dominance in your mind to refute both the results AND the unfair cards which are the constituents of these blue decks or else you are just willfully ignoring evidence. I mean, we are talking about Ancestral Recall here. All the decks in the DtB are using this card or its facsimile. That's ok in your view?

EDIT: The position of your "matter of statistics" argument is a chicken or egg proposition. Are more people playing blue because it is demonstrating results, or is it demonstrating results because so many people are playing it? This goes nowhere. What does go somewhere is that blue decks can effortlessly blow you out with card advantage while nonblue decks can not. There is no getting around this hard fact.

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I'm not "spinning" anything, if X% of entrants run blue and X% of the top 8/16/etc is blue, what is unfair about blue? Also, we AREN'T talking about Ancestral Recall, we're talking about a t3-5 play that empties your yard in a format where people play 7/7 yawgmoth's bargains and glimpse of nature. I think the DtB can use whatever they damn well please, if people feel like playing a card, go ahead. again, non-blue isnt significantly worse in terms of performance.

Re: your edit: whichever came first among results vs use does not matter if results vs use isn't significantly different. there is no "hard fact" that blue decks can always blow out nonblue decks, thats a blatant exaggeration, which is flatly ironic given how you try to accuse me of spinning data

I guess you talk about this post? http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...l=1#post861790

I don't know what you see, but I see a variety of Brainstorm decks utterly dominating the only two remaining Non-Brainstorm decks (Elves and D&T). D&T going 12-22 and Elves going 11-19 against Brainstorm decks. In your own cherrypicked example. What are you even talking about?

Does anyone know them time of the announcement? Midnight, or 11am?

I heard the corrected image was leaked:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B7rMVN_CIAAbGAs.jpg

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Originally Posted by Tao

I guess you talk about this post? http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...l=1#post861790

I don't know what you see, but I see a variety of Brainstorm decks utterly dominating the only two remaining Non-Brainstorm decks (Elves and D&T). D&T going 12-22 and Elves going 11-19 against Brainstorm decks. In your own cherrypicked example. What are you even talking about?

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You're completely ignoring matchup differences by calling them all "brainstorm decks" and then talk about cherry picking? elves is gonna have a bad matchup against storm regardless of brainstorm just because storm is a better combo, for example, and Elves also had a better overall non-mirror record than "DTB" like UWR stoneblade and miracles. There are also decks like Grixis that put up impressive records despite being "under the radar", further supporting the idea that you arent shackled to the dtb section

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Originally Posted by Tao

I guess you talk about this post? http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...l=1#post861790

I don't know what you see, but I see a variety of Brainstorm decks utterly dominating the only two remaining Non-Brainstorm decks (Elves and D&T). D&T going 12-22 and Elves going 11-19 against Brainstorm decks. In your own cherrypicked example. What are you even talking about?

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Because those aren't the same decks?

If a deck can go positive against every single deck, then it's the best deck. Blue or not, there is no deck that's good against everything. Why do you group all brainstorm decks together?

Since people like to group them all together, does that mean SneakNShow is the same deck as UR Delver? Herp derp I better start SBing Karakas against Delver and Miracles now!

People only see that "omg it's blue and they run brainstorm, it's the same deck!". Idk why lol. Elves went combined 1-8 against faster combos, which is expected. Elves has never been good against storm/SnS/reanimator. Against the decks it's designed to hang tight with, it went 9-9-1 against Pyromancer/Delver decks and 1-1-2 against miracles. That's literally 50-50.

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Originally Posted by AznSeal

Because those aren't the same decks?

If a deck can go positive against every single deck, then it's the best deck. Blue or not, there is no deck that's good against everything. Why do you group all brainstorm decks together?

Since people like to group them all together, does that mean SneakNShow is the same deck as UR Delver? Herp derp I better start SBing Karakas against Delver and Miracles now!

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If you are as bad at sideboarding as you are when it comes to interpreting statistics then I would not be surprised if you do.

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Originally Posted by AznSeal

People only see that "omg it's blue and they run brainstorm, it's the same deck!". Idk why lol. Elves went combined 1-8 against faster combos, which is expected. Elves has never been good against storm/SnS/reanimator. Against the decks it's designed to hang tight with, it went 9-9-1 against Pyromancer/Delver decks and 1-1-2 against miracles. That's literally 50-50.

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Lol yes, if you just don't count the bad blue matchups then the best nonblue deck is 50-50 against blue decks. Your statistical approach reminds me of how Brazil beat Germany 1-0 in the Semi Finals of World Cup last year (if you just don't count the first 89 minutes).

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Originally Posted by Tammit67

Check out the newest Decks to Beat change.

UR delver
UWR Delver
Sneak and show
Omnishow
Miracles

That's frightening to me. Green and black entirely absent from The Sources DtB.

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And white limited to just a small handful of spells also. This is the bluest/reddest meta in a long time and it's only got the red as a sideshow to blue.

There are 186 colored spells in the 5 lists in the DTB section right now. Using one source's lists I came up with 136 blue spells, 16 white spells, 30 red spells and 4 black spells (4x Griselband in their version of Sneak and Show.) How can anybody defend this meta?

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Originally Posted by Kage

And like clockwork, Stoneforge has just jumped from ~15$ to 25-30 bucks ans SCG is sold out. Bloodbraid Elf jumped to 4 bucks, too.

Before the next prerelease, I'll buy 200 Deathrites, Visions and Jaces plus hire a photoshop expert.

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SFM has been climbing steadily since GPNJ. It was already in the mid 20's last week when I was contemplating trading for a few.

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Originally Posted by Tao

If you are as bad at sideboarding as you are when it comes to interpreting statistics then I would not be surprised if you do.



Lol yes, if you just don't count the bad blue matchups then the best nonblue deck is 50-50 against blue decks. Your statistical approach reminds me of how Brazil beat Germany 1-0 in the Semi Finals of World Cup last year (if you just don't count the first 89 minutes).

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Why do you group blue decks together? Storm and Delver aren't the same deck. Hell, I bet if I wanted to in Elves, I can change the deck so it goes 70-30 against Storm, SneakNShow, and Reanimator. By doing that, i'll probably be 20-80 against Delver or Pyromancer decks. You can't beat every deck in the format. You have to punt matches. That's how magic works. Even UR Delver punts it's storm matchup. Elves punts it's combo matchup. Belcher punts it's matchup against decks that play FoW. You have to pick your poison.

People keep wanting to have their favorite decks to win against everything. Spoiler alert: you can't.

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Originally Posted by Barook

Except this particular list wouldn't include a TC ban, neither for Modern nor Legacy. Jeskai Ascendancy itself currently doesn't put up results to make it truely ban-worthy right now, unless they want to be the laughing stock for banning a deck that has like ~1% meta reprentation.

SFM would seem too weird, but it certainly is a card that can put Delver into its place.

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Given why they banned SFM, there would have to be a radical change in how they handle the ban list/format for that to happen

For that matter, turn 2 SFM in the face of a flipped delver is laughable no matter the format