Miracle Control

Fateseal+Predict is sometimes very useful, for example vs Krosan Grip and Abrupt decay (which you can't counter and maybe don't want them to shuffle into their deck later). In the same matchup there are some lands you also don't want them to have (but this is a bit risky if you don't have CB for loam. If they have Boseiju you also prefer to predict Boil away. Basicly atleast consider Fateseal+Predict if you have a stacked hand and only worry about a few cards. For everything else there's Master...Brainstorm.

So I went to my tiny local tournament and went 1-1-1. I won against Affinity, Lost against Eldrazi, and tied against Lands (which I guess is a win in itself). This is my list:

2x Jace
2x Mentor
2x Snapcaster

4x Force of Will
4x Terminus
4x Swords
4x Top
4x Ponder
2x Counterspell
2x Predict
3x Counterbalance
1x Council's Judgement
4x Brainstorm
1x Entreat the Angels

4x Polluted Delta
4x Flooded Strand
2x Marsh Flats
5x Island
3x Plains
3x Tundra


So at this point, I don't even know where to start when fixing this. It feels like everything has been crammed into the deck. I like Mentor, but I found myself wishing I would draw my Entreat more. I want 2 Entreat. I am not sure about Mentors though. I don't know enough about the format to know if 1 in the main is OK. I want another Snapcaster. That was an MVP all day. I am not sure about Force of Will either. It feels like I am undoing my advantage I gain from the Predicts. I know it is a necessary evil, but I wanted to know if 3 was ok.

The fetches aren't changing. I am not going to spend money on Red. I haven't even finished my main deck. Just keeping it UW for now.

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Originally Posted by KingOfThePanda

So I went to my tiny local tournament and went 1-1-1. I won against Affinity, Lost against Eldrazi, and tied against Lands (which I guess is a win in itself). This is my list:

2x Jace
2x Mentor
2x Snapcaster

4x Force of Will
4x Terminus
4x Swords
4x Top
4x Ponder
2x Counterspell
2x Predict
3x Counterbalance
1x Council's Judgement
4x Brainstorm
1x Entreat the Angels

4x Polluted Delta
4x Flooded Strand
2x Marsh Flats
5x Island
3x Plains
3x Tundra


So at this point, I don't even know where to start when fixing this. It feels like everything has been crammed into the deck. I like Mentor, but I found myself wishing I would draw my Entreat more. I want 2 Entreat. I am not sure about Mentors though. I don't know enough about the format to know if 1 in the main is OK. I want another Snapcaster. That was an MVP all day. I am not sure about Force of Will either. It feels like I am undoing my advantage I gain from the Predicts. I know it is a necessary evil, but I wanted to know if 3 was ok.

The fetches aren't changing. I am not going to spend money on Red. I haven't even finished my main deck. Just keeping it UW for now.

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The two cards you can cut from your main deck are Council's Judgment and/or a Plains I will totally add the 3rd Snapcaster in one of that slots and a Counterspell in the other one, I plaied this exact list yesterday night to a local event going 4-0, losing only 1 game all the night

Quote:

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Originally Posted by KingOfThePanda

So I went to my tiny local tournament and went 1-1-1. I won against Affinity, Lost against Eldrazi, and tied against Lands (which I guess is a win in itself). This is my list:
So at this point, I don't even know where to start when fixing this. It feels like everything has been crammed into the deck. I like Mentor, but I found myself wishing I would draw my Entreat more. I want 2 Entreat. I am not sure about Mentors though. I don't know enough about the format to know if 1 in the main is OK. I want another Snapcaster. That was an MVP all day. I am not sure about Force of Will either. It feels like I am undoing my advantage I gain from the Predicts. I know it is a necessary evil, but I wanted to know if 3 was ok.

The fetches aren't changing. I am not going to spend money on Red. I haven't even finished my main deck. Just keeping it UW for now.

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This is just... wrong. CJ requires double W, Entreat requires double W. Do you want the double W route or just all-in on the single W via Mentor? Don't sit on the fence, pick a side.

I think Mentor is much better in UWr builds, Jace and Entreat in UW so I'd recommend going that route. You only need two plains and can even up your island count higher. Back to Basics is great in straight UW, maybe look into that?

So if I wanted to go the Entreat rout, would there be any harm in leaving in a single Mentor?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by KingOfThePanda

So if I wanted to go the Entreat rout, would there be any harm in leaving in a single Mentor?

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If you go for the Entreat route, it's better to have Mentor in the SB. Most opponents of Miracles would SB-out creature removal. Mentor gets SB-in to punish this kind of SB plan, as well as for all the fair MUs.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dissection

I think Mentor is much better in UWr builds, Jace and Entreat in UW so I'd recommend going that route. You only need two plains and can even up your island count higher. Back to Basics is great in straight UW, maybe look into that?

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I definitely agree with this assessment. I'd recommend looking into Christopher Walton's top 8 deck from GP Columbus a few weeks ago, it's straight UW and utilizes some pretty powerful cards.
http://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=12681&d=273539&f=LE
1 Karakas
3 Tundra
3 Scalding Tarn
2 Arid Mesa
4 Flooded Strand
2 Plains
6 Island
1 Back to Basics
4 Counterbalance
4 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Counterspell
4 Brainstorm
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Force of Will
1 Entreat the Angels
3 Ponder
4 Terminus
2 Snapcaster Mage
1 Venser, Shaper Savant
2 Monastery Mentor
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
Sideboard
2 Rest in Peace
2 Vendilion Clique
2 Disenchant
2 Flusterstorm
2 Containment Priest
1 Future Sight
1 Moat
1 Back to Basics
1 Venser, Shaper Savant
1 Monastery Mentor

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Minniehajj

I definitely agree with this assessment. I'd recommend looking into Christopher Walton's top 8 deck from GP Columbus a few weeks ago, it's straight UW and utilizes some pretty powerful cards.
http://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=12681&d=273539&f=LE
1 Karakas
3 Tundra
3 Scalding Tarn
2 Arid Mesa
4 Flooded Strand
2 Plains
6 Island
1 Back to Basics
4 Counterbalance
4 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Counterspell
4 Brainstorm
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Force of Will
1 Entreat the Angels
3 Ponder
4 Terminus
2 Snapcaster Mage
1 Venser, Shaper Savant
2 Monastery Mentor
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
Sideboard
2 Rest in Peace
2 Vendilion Clique
2 Disenchant
2 Flusterstorm
2 Containment Priest
1 Future Sight
1 Moat
1 Back to Basics
1 Venser, Shaper Savant
1 Monastery Mentor

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Playing without red is a huge liability in the mirror. I would say it shifts the matchup to 70/30 if not more in favour of the deck playing red. Budget constraints are a thing, of course, but the only way to compensate for being UW would be to lean more heavily on the Back to Basics plan. I would certainly go down to two Tundras in that build. (Edit: and play 2 B2B main deck)
B2B hurts Krakas and thus the Venser tricks, so I would consider cutting Venser. Replacement would certainly be a Snapcaster Mage.
An additional Flusterstorm in the board would also be nice to compensate for the missing REBs.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ozimek

Playing without red is a huge liability in the mirror. I would say it shifts the matchup to 70/30 if not more in favour of the deck playing red. Budget constraints are a thing, of course, but the only way to compensate for being UW would be to lean more heavily on the Back to Basics plan. I would certainly go down to two Tundras in that build. (Edit: and play 2 B2B main deck)
B2B hurts Krakas and thus the Venser tricks, so I would consider cutting Venser. Replacement would certainly be a Snapcaster Mage.
An additional Flusterstorm in the board would also be nice to compensate for the missing REBs.

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I agree that the lack of red is a large liability,not just in the mirror but across any matchup, but the other user made it clear that he wants to stay UW so I'm giving him tips on how to stay UW while remaining competitive.

Secondly, this list got the semifinals of GP Columbus, beating Wilson Hunter's Miracle deck that DID have red in it so it's not going to be absurdly back breaking to not have red in your deck.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Minniehajj

I agree that the lack of red is a large liability,not just in the mirror but across any matchup, but the other user made it clear that he wants to stay UW so I'm giving him tips on how to stay UW while remaining competitive.

Secondly, this list got the semifinals of GP Columbus, beating Wilson Hunter's Miracle deck that DID have red in it so it's not going to be absurdly back breaking to not have red in your deck.

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1 match result is not indicative of what will happen most of the time.

I think cutting red makes adding cards you want to play easier, I personally advocate for supreme verdict somewhere in the 75, and the only card I might want red for would be ruination. otherwise I am content with back to basics. I also think the deck could benefit from more counters.

Little OT, i didn't found anyone who can answer surely to this:
my opponent has a Lyline of the Void in play, i cast predict targeting myself, name Arid mesa, mill the card that goes exiled for the effect of the leyline, do i still get to draw 2 from predict? or do i draw 1 because predict "checks" that the name of the card in the grave ( no one) is not the same name as i called?
i thought it would work exactly as Grindstone vs, Rest in Peace, ( RiP does not affect the grindstone "check" beacuse it is unrelevant where the cards are when he "check" if both have the same color)

I'm not a judge, but I'm almost positive that Predict doesn't actually care where the card ends up, only whether or not the card is the one you named or not.

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Originally Posted by Secretly.A.Bee

I'm not a judge, but I'm almost positive that Predict doesn't actually care where the card ends up, only whether or not the card is the one you named or not.

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Seems reasonable.

Note that Helm of Obedience is worded differently in that it checks if x cards have been put into a graveyard:
Card Name: Helm of Obedience
Mana Cost: 4
Converted Mana Cost: 4
Types: Artifact
Card Text:
Variable Colorless, Tap: Target opponent puts cards from the top of his or her library into his or her graveyard until a creature card or X cards are put into that graveyard this way, whichever comes first. If a creature card is put into that graveyard this way, sacrifice Helm of Obedience and put that card onto the battlefield under your control. X can't be 0.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by chaosjace

I think cutting red makes adding cards you want to play easier, I personally advocate for supreme verdict somewhere in the 75, and the only card I might want red for would be ruination. otherwise I am content with back to basics. I also think the deck could benefit from more counters.

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The reason for even splashing red in the first place is REB/Pyroblast. So when you're saying the deck benefits from more counters, but the only red card you would need would be ruination thats pretty contradictory.

Working on a slightly different list for legends miracles and I'm curious on the communities thoughts.

Lands 22
1 arid Mesa
4 flooded strand
2 polluted delta
2 scalding tarn
5 island
2 plains
2 tundra
2 volcanic island
2 Karakas

Creatures 5
2 snapcaster Mage
2 vendillion clique
1 venser shaper savant

Other spells 33
4 brainstorm
3 ponder
3 swords to plowshare
4 terminus
4 sensei's divining top
4 counterbalance
2 entreat the Angels
1 counter spell
1 predict
2 jace the mind sculptor
1 councils judgement
4 force of will

Sideboard
2 wear//tear
2 rest in peace
2 blood moon
2 red elemental blast
1 pyroblast
2 containment priest
2 flusterstorm
1 engineered explosives
1 pithing needle

The deck has been functioning nicely, I'm just thinking about a few things. For example is three double white spells too many? Or should I have the third jace or second venser? Sorry about grammatical errors this was done on my phone.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gros

Little OT, i didn't found anyone who can answer surely to this:
my opponent has a Lyline of the Void in play, i cast predict targeting myself, name Arid mesa, mill the card that goes exiled for the effect of the leyline, do i still get to draw 2 from predict? or do i draw 1 because predict "checks" that the name of the card in the grave ( no one) is not the same name as i called?
i thought it would work exactly as Grindstone vs, Rest in Peace, ( RiP does not affect the grindstone "check" beacuse it is unrelevant where the cards are when he "check" if both have the same color)

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I had the confirm by a L2 Judge, in this case Predict works exactly like Grindstone, so we get to draw 2

Has anyone else done testing with the Brainstorm Show's miracles list? I saw that Minniehajj said he had some luck with it, just wanted to get other peoples feedback.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by skyout

Has anyone else done testing with the Brainstorm Show's miracles list? I saw that Minniehajj said he had some luck with it, just wanted to get other peoples feedback.

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Wilson and I've changed a few things about the list since the GP/SSS
-2 Predict
+1 Preordain
+1 Counterspell

SB:
-1 Spell Pierce
+1 Vendilion Clique

We found ourselves wanting to cantrip chain more than grind with this version of Miracles, but I think this variant is still rather soft to a few things: a) a mirror opponent that knows you have mentors, no other win conditions and b) a feasible fast combo matchup.

Not having access to the third flusterstorm is a big hit for me.

I've since moved off of this Miracles variant, it's too one-dimensional overall. Fun for a field that isn't going to be ready for Monastery Mentor, but that field is a lot smaller now since the GP weekend.

I'm now testing variations of our list from GP Columbus, such as Tholance's list from GP Prague, AnziD and I's list from GP COL, and other variants that we've found online, like mzfroste's list.

If I were to go to SCG Worcester this upcoming weekend, I'd play either, card for card, Tholance's second place list from GP Prague which you'll find here:
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
3 Snapcaster Mage
2 Monastery Mentor
4 Terminus
4 Ponder
1 Entreat the Angels
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Counterspell
4 Force of Will
2 Predict
4 Brainstorm
4 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Counterbalance
4 Flooded Strand
3 Scalding Tarn
2 Arid Mesa
3 Tundra
2 Volcanic Island
4 Island
2 Plains
Sideboard
1 Snapcaster Mage
3 Flusterstorm
2 Pyroblast
2 Red Elemental Blast
2 Wear / Tear
1 Engineered Explosives
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Containment Priest
1 Mountain

Or MzFroste's last 5-0 List, also card-for-card:
3 Snapcaster Mage
3 Tundra
3 Volcanic Island
4 Island
1 Plains
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Flooded Strand
1 Arid Mesa
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
2 Predict
4 Ponder
4 Brainstorm
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Force of Will
4 Terminus
4 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Counterbalance
2 Counterspell
3 Monastery Mentor
SB: 1 Containment Priest
SB: 3 Flusterstorm
SB: 1 Surgical Extraction
SB: 4 Pyroblast
SB: 1 Snapcaster Mage
SB: 2 Wear // Tear
SB: 2 Blood Moon
SB: 1 Counterspell

If I wanted to shave blood moons from mzfroste's list, I'd play -2 Blood Moon, +1 EE, +1 Surgical, but I'm not certain I'd make any changes at all.

Best of luck to those going to SCG Worcester this weekend!