[Deck] Zoo

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08-26-2009, 09:05 PM
hungryLIKEALION

Re: [DTB] Zoo

The reason I argue for playing things like Library and KoTR is because, as nice as it would be to believe it does, zoo does not kill nearly as quickly as people want it to 99% of the time. You get interference from swords, force, daze, and so on. So you may goldfish on turn 4, but in real games you will not win until turns 6-7 often, and many times later. It is in those situations where you need to be able to produce larger threats to push through the last bits of damage, or more consistent threats. Library helps give you the card quality you need to end the game, and Knight gives you an excellent tool to push through their end game blockers with. I'm less enthusiastic about Thoctar since he quickly gets outclassed by opposing goyfs, but Knight is a great tool that allows you to win games simply by saying 'my guy is bigger than your team.'
08-26-2009, 09:38 PM
Media314r8

Re: [DTB] Zoo

Quote:

Originally Posted by hungryLIKEALION

The reason I argue for playing things like Library and KoTR is because, as nice as it would be to believe it does, zoo does not kill nearly as quickly as people want it to 99% of the time. You get interference from swords, force, daze, and so on. So you may goldfish on turn 4, but in real games you will not win until turns 6-7 often, and many times later. It is in those situations where you need to be able to produce larger threats to push through the last bits of damage, or more consistent threats. Library helps give you the card quality you need to end the game, and Knight gives you an excellent tool to push through their end game blockers with. I'm less enthusiastic about Thoctar since he quickly gets outclassed by opposing goyfs, but Knight is a great tool that allows you to win games simply by saying 'my guy is bigger than your team.'

-This-, in addition to knight's ability to act as a shuffle effect to get new cards with library, or to turn your dead lands into new cards via float mana, sac/fetch canopy, sac canopy for new card.
08-27-2009, 04:38 AM
jandax

Re: [DTB] Zoo

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loxodon Baileyarch

@Fling: Read the primer man, there is a detailed matchup analysis there.

I'm getting kinda bored with my Zoo list, and i kinda wanna switch it up a little. So this is what I'm going to test:

4 Wooded Foothills
4 Windswepth Heath
2 Bloodstained Mire
3 Taiga
3 Plateau
2 Savannah
1 Plains
1 Mountain
1 Forest

4 Lightning Bolt
4 Lightning Helix
3 Chain Lightning
2 Jitte
4 PTE
2 Sylvan Library [I've agreed that's it's good and worth spots]

4 Goyf
4 Nacatyl
4 Ape
4 Pridemage
2 Thoctar
2 Isamaru/Figure of Destiny

Since i cut Watchwolf, I'm not sure if i want to run FoD for more pure beef or not. I guess that's what testing is for. I added my 4th PTE because i've been running into alot more fat shit lately. Namely more Tombstalker, Goyf, and that 6/6 Pestilence Wumpus XD.

The list seems good. Though i might cut back down to 2 Chain Lightning for another creature. Bc 21-22 seems like the right number. Idk.

Constructive thoughts?

@LB
No scrolls, man? You were the biggest proponent! I'm not terribly thrilled about Chain Lightning. I'd cut the lightning for two Scrolls and one extra Throctar, or drop the throctars for Biatch of the Reliquary. And as far as going between Figure and Isamaru, you should devote these two creature slots to either the early game or late game. Early game being Isamaru, late being FoD. I also like you use path more than Swords, outside of like two decks that I can think of (gobbo/MUC), I'd really rather give them a tapped basic than 5+ life. In the end it'll still be a semi-soft time walk for Zoo, and I never wanna stray from the deck's main focus: 20dmg nao plzthx

Oh yeah, for 52 pages of this thread you've mispelled Nacatyl (Nacatl) every time!
08-27-2009, 06:32 AM
mackaber

Re: [DTB] Zoo

@Vatrix: Your list plays neither PoP nor Mancer so it can easily get away with 15 red sources. It's just been my experience that a dec running mancers needs at least 16 red sources to viably use him while doing other things lie Burn to Face.
Also I'd have to agree with my previous posters that not running mancer seems silly. He provides so much card advantage and gives you a lategameplan, all for a measily 1 mana. He's really up there as one of the best red spells ever printed and likely the best red creature ever.

@HungryLikeaLion/Media:Obviously the average opponent is not a goldfish. I'm just under the impression with the awesome amount of Burn available to us in legacy it might be more reliable to force through 15 to the face (which isn't too hard once you resolve PoP against most decs) than playing clunky stuff, that will also reduce the pressure your putting on the opponent in the early game.

I'm also wondering if running some figures might be a reasonable thing to do since he provides inevitability in the long run but also fits well into the mana curve.
08-27-2009, 07:34 AM
Skeggi

Re: [DTB] Zoo

I'm not really sure why I see so much Naya Zoo in here. In my meta Domain Zoo is far more popular, because it gives access to black - which gives access to Dark Confidant, which makes sure Sylvan Library isn't needed. With Dark Confidant, running Fireblast is risky, but you can easily substitute it for Tribal Flames (to maximize effect you only need to run 1 Volcanic Island). Black also gives access to Vindicate: next to Qasali Pridemage it's the Chalice and Counterbalance killer.

So really, how come I see so much Naya Zoo in here? I'm convinced Domain Zoo is much stronger.
08-27-2009, 08:00 AM
lorddotm

Re: [DTB] Zoo

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skeggi

I'm not really sure why I see so much Naya Zoo in here. In my meta Domain Zoo is far more popular, because it gives access to black - which gives access to Dark Confidant, which makes sure Sylvan Library isn't needed. With Dark Confidant, running Fireblast is risky, but you can easily substitute it for Tribal Flames (to maximize effect you only need to run 1 Volcanic Island). Black also gives access to Vindicate: next to Qasali Pridemage it's the Chalice and Counterbalance killer.

So really, how come I see so much Naya Zoo in here? I'm convinced Domain Zoo is much stronger.

I've never actually seen a Domain Zoo list...
08-27-2009, 08:04 AM
MMogg

Re: [DTB] Zoo

Quote:

Originally Posted by lorddotm

I've never actually seen a Domain Zoo list...

Here's an example:

They really look interesting. At least, they use the life gained from Helix in a productive way: removal and card draw.
08-27-2009, 08:05 AM
jandax

Re: [DTB] Zoo

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skeggi

I'm not really sure why I see so much Naya Zoo in here. In my meta Domain Zoo is far more popular, because it gives access to black - which gives access to Dark Confidant, which makes sure Sylvan Library isn't needed. With Dark Confidant, running Fireblast is risky, but you can easily substitute it for Tribal Flames (to maximize effect you only need to run 1 Volcanic Island). Black also gives access to Vindicate: next to Qasali Pridemage it's the Chalice and Counterbalance killer.

So really, how come I see so much Naya Zoo in here? I'm convinced Domain Zoo is much stronger.

This is the RGW Zoo deck thread, after all...
08-27-2009, 08:20 AM
jimmerz213

Re: [DTB] Zoo

Quote:

Originally Posted by jandax

This is the RGW Zoo deck thread, after all...

Technically no, not anymore. When Zoo got moved to DTB, they all go consolidated into this one thread. I think the main reason we arent discussing domain is because all of us who are passing ideas around are mostly Naya players. Nothing against Domain, but I just dont like it as much personally. Ive always just played RGW and never really questioned why, haha.
08-27-2009, 08:23 AM
tsabo_tavoc

Re: [DTB] Zoo

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skeggi

So really, how come I see so much Naya Zoo in here? I'm convinced Domain Zoo is much stronger.

It depends on the exposure to Wasteland and Moons. Many thresh builds stay 3 colors to up the Basicland counts.

Bob is the best from the additional color and better than Sylvan Library+Horizon Canopy. Tribal Flame is on par with Price of Progress and Fireblast. Vindicate is much more versatile than Krosan Grip, however, it is not as easily castable and can be countered.
08-27-2009, 08:28 AM
lorddotm

Re: [DTB] Zoo

Quote:

Originally Posted by MMogg

Here's an example:

They really look interesting. At least, they use the life gained from Helix in a productive way: removal and card draw.

Wow the only thing I like about it is Confidant. Too bad Confidant+Snuff Out is almost the same as Confidant+Tombstalker, really really bad. Speaking of which, Tombstalker in Domain Zoo is a crazy bad idea right?
08-27-2009, 08:45 AM
eq.firemind

Re: [DTB] Zoo

Quote:

Originally Posted by MMogg

They really look interesting. At least, they use the life gained from Helix in a productive way: removal and card draw.

Why not Sylvan Library?

IMHO Domain Zoo powerful, but a little unfocused and too greedy and there are shitloads of PoPs, Moons, Stifles and Wastes to punish that in almost every meta.
By the way, old theme. There were conversation about it some pages ago...
08-27-2009, 08:56 AM
mackaber

Re: [DTB] Zoo

In a format without non-Basic hate DomainZoo is obviously vastly superior to NayaZoo since DC rocks the party that rocks the party. Fireblast isn't really the problem since you can get away with running just as many Mountains as the current Naya'Zoo decs do, the real problem is you can't really afford to run basic lands which in essence means your asking for trouble.

While vindicate is nice, imho it's slightly too expensive for Legacy since the Stone Rain option, which was quite good against Combo and Control in Extended is too slow against these types of decs in legacy. Bob and Tribal Flames (extremly sexy since it's usually a hard removal spell for goyf) are the only real reasons to play the dec but they are mighty fine reasons.
08-27-2009, 10:08 AM
Skeggi

Re: [DTB] Zoo

Quote:

Originally Posted by tsabo_tavoc

It depends on the exposure to Wasteland and Moons.

Most Moons come in the form of a little creature. You can easily burn that one down.

Quote:

Originally Posted by lorddotm

I've never actually seen a Domain Zoo list...

Here's a list you could start off with:

Code:

4 Wild Nacatl 4 Tarmogoyf 4 Kird Ape 4 Dark Confidant 3 Grim lavamancer 3 Qasali Pridemage 2 Jotun Grunt 4 Tribal Flames 4 Chain Lightning 4 Vindicate 4 Lightning Bolt 3 Bloodstained Mire 3 Windswept Heath 3 Wooded Foothills 2 Taiga 2 Plateau 1 Bayou 1 Volcanic Island 1 Savannah 1 Badlands 1 Mountain 1 Plains 1 Forest

Here's another list:

Code:

4 Wild Nacatl 4 Tarmogoyf 4 Kird Ape 4 Dark Confidant 3 Grim lavamancer 4 Qasali Pridemage 4 Tribal Flames 4 Chain Lightning 2 Vindicate 4 Lightning Bolt 4 Aether Vial 3 Bloodstained Mire 3 Windswept Heath 4 Wooded Foothills 1 Taiga 1 Plateau 1 Bayou 1 Volcanic Island 1 Savannah 1 Badlands 1 Scrubland 1 Mountain 1 Forest

There is certain thinking required when fetching, other than that, it's your basic burn-and-hit list.
08-27-2009, 10:13 AM
lorddotm

Re: [DTB] Zoo

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skeggi

Most Moons come in the form of a little creature. You can easily burn that one down.

Here's a list you could start off with:

Code:

4 Wild Nacatl 4 Tarmogoyf 4 Kird Ape 4 Dark Confidant 3 Grim lavamancer 3 Qasali Pridemage 2 Jotun Grunt 4 Tribal Flames 4 Chain Lightning 4 Vindicate 4 Lightning Bolt 3 Bloodstained Mire 3 Windswept Heath 3 Wooded Foothills 2 Taiga 2 Plateau 1 Bayou 1 Volcanic Island 1 Savannah 1 Badlands 1 Mountain 1 Plains 1 Forest

Here's another list:

Code:

4 Wild Nacatl 4 Tarmogoyf 4 Kird Ape 4 Dark Confidant 3 Grim lavamancer 4 Qasali Pridemage 4 Tribal Flames 4 Chain Lightning 2 Vindicate 4 Lightning Bolt 4 Aether Vial 3 Bloodstained Mire 3 Windswept Heath 4 Wooded Foothills 1 Taiga 1 Plateau 1 Bayou 1 Volcanic Island 1 Savannah 1 Badlands 1 Scrubland 1 Mountain 1 Forest

There is certain thinking required when fetching, other than that, it's your basic burn-and-hit list.

Ya, Naya Zoo seems a lot more powerful.

Skeggi, if this is taking over your meta, try Canadian Thresh or Team America, looks like that bends Domain Zoo over and violates it.
08-27-2009, 10:30 AM
Skeggi

Re: [DTB] Zoo

Canadian Thresh is also quite popular and doing well. Team America not so much, it gets thrashed by enough other decks. It's not like you can't play around Stifles. We have Naya Zoo here, they just don't score as high as Domain Zoo. I suggest you try it before you write it off.
08-27-2009, 10:37 AM
lorddotm

Re: [DTB] Zoo

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skeggi

Canadian Thresh is also quite popular and doing well. Team America not so much, it gets thrashed by enough other decks. It's not like you can't play around Stifles. We have Naya Zoo here, they just don't score as high as Domain Zoo. I suggest you try it before you write it off.

I hate red/green aggro, so I probably will not be trying this.

What are you playing now a days?
08-27-2009, 10:39 AM
Skeggi

Re: [DTB] Zoo

Quote:

Originally Posted by lorddotm

What are you playing now a days?

At the moment Domain Zoo, Merfolk, Ichorid, ANT, Stax, The Rock and UGWr CounterTop. But on tournaments so far I've only played Merfolk, Ichorid, Stax, The Rock, Eva Green, Team America, UGWr CounterTop, UGb CounterTop, Dragon Stompy and UGwb CounterTop. I could have missed a few... Why?
08-27-2009, 10:43 AM
lorddotm

Re: [DTB] Zoo

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skeggi

At the moment Domain Zoo, Merfolk, Ichorid, ANT, Stax, The Rock and UGWr CounterTop. But on tournaments so far I've only played Merfolk, Ichorid, Stax, The Rock, Eva Green, Team America, UGWr CounterTop, UGb CounterTop, Dragon Stompy and UGwb CounterTop. Why?

Curious lol.
08-27-2009, 02:09 PM
DragoFireheart

Re: [DTB] Zoo

Domain Zoo is too vulnerable in a meta full of Moons and Wastelands. Really, is it worth risking auto-losses just for an extra color in an Aggro deck? I could see it in a control deck since they would have counter magic to stop auto-losses, but not in a Zoo deck.

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