Why specifically non-scroll?
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Why specifically non-scroll?
I'm not a big fan of the card. Maybe I should look at it again and test.:tongue:
i think the card is really good nut woth so many thresh, loam and fast combo decks here i think it isnt very usefull. but thats just my meta, maybe yours is much aggro-isher, because then is scroll better i think.
I've had success with this list:Quote:
Originally Posted by TheFatalOne
3 Swamp
2 Plains
2 Windswepth Heath
2 Flooded Strand
2 Polluted Delta
2 Bloodstained Mire
4 Scrubland
1 Godless Shrine
4 Wasteland
4 Dark Confidant
3 Spectral Lynx
3 Serra Avenger
3 Descendant of Kiyomaro
2 Jotun Grunt
4 Duress
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Vindicate
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Dark Ritual
3 Umezawa's Jitte
SB:
4 Engineered Plague
4 Dystopia
4 Disenchant
3 Pithing Needle
I probably need to spend some time modifying my SB, but this list should serve as a decent starter for you. It's a fun deck, enjoy. :)
Above list looks more like Bw Fish than Bw Confidant...
I never thought about it like that, but I agree. I dropped some of the things like Sinkhole, Specter and Shade for Avenger, Descedent and Lynx.
This question is posed based off the list posted above. There are only 12 mono-black cards in the deck (Duress, Hymn, Dark Confidant), which makes me question if the deck needs to run Dark Ritual? Would it make more sense to drop Dark Ritual for Gerrard's Verdict? Basically, is there anything that makes the deck more optimal by dropping Dark Ritual.. :)
I would prefer Chrome Mox if dropping Dark Ritual. I think an Accelerant should be dropped for an accelerant.
I liked this deck when it was a control deck. Only running like 7 beaters. Does anyone still run those lists?
7? The deck always ran at least 11, even in Pikula's original list (4 Dark Confidant, 4 Hypnotic Specter and 3 Nantuko Shade)
The funny thing about it all, is no matter how much discussion about this particular deck and all the lists that are thrown out there, none of them get any better than the original.
Sure some of them may have a better combo or aggro matchup... but they sacrifice another matchup, while the original was right in the middle.
For example against decks A and B, you will change the deck so you can have a 80/20 against deck A, but will then have a 20/80 against deck B... then you look at the original list and it had a 60/40 against both decks A and B.
that is actually a great comment, the one about the BW fish... that is exactly what it looks like... and is in fact no longer pikula. Pikula is a LD based aggro-control w/ discard & creature control as backup disruption so it can seal the deal.
you guys are running dark ritual, even though you are taking out some of the only reasons you would want to have it... examples being hippie, plague, shade, scroll, and all the broken first turn openings it allowed.
I love to get a first turn duress + Hymm, then follow it up with a sinkhole the next turn.... then follow that up with a confidant to keep it going, a hypnotic specter to keep them down, or the shade to kill them while they are totally off balance.
Whenever I play this deck I use the original list, the only difference between mine and chris' is the manabase... I run a few more fetches and 2 godless shrines (no field or caves).
I said beaters, not draw. 2/1s are not beaters, unless they pump to become some.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hummingbird TG
Eh? By that logic, Hypnotic Specters aren't beaters too, then. Then the deck ran minimum of 3(3 Nantuko Shade). The more controlling versions max out at 6, iirc(3 Shade 3 Grunt).
No Jotun Grunts then? Pity. And Phyrexian Negators in the board? Bleh. Seriously, there is no reason to not sacrifice a matchup for another one in a defined metagame. For one, the Thresh matchup would be far more important than, say, Stax or Faerie Stompy or Affinity.Quote:
Originally Posted by thefreakaccident
Also, Hyppie is far too slow. Cards that are good with Dark Ritual just don't cut it anymore; you don't always draw Ritual. One must play cards that are good even without it. Although I don't approve of the BW Fish deck either, thats not Deadguy Ale.
What is your ideal Deadguy Ale list, Hummingbird?
Well, I'm currently testing a Smallpox list, but its still in testing, so...
My old list is as follows:
Mana 26
4 Scrubland
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Polluted Delta
4 Wasteland
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
5 Swamp
4 Dark Ritual
Creatures 12
4 Dark Confidant
3 Nantuko Shade
3 Hypnotic Specter
2 Jotun Grunt
Other 22
4 Duress
4 Hymn to Tourach
2 Unmask
4 Vindicate
2 Cursed Scroll
2 Engineered Explosives
2 Engineered Plague
2 Sensei's Divining Top
here's my new anti-gro meta list:
4xdark confidant
3xhippie
3xnantuko shade
3xjoutun grunt
3xspectral lynx
4xdark ritual
4xstp
4xhymn to tourach
4xduress
4xvindicate
3xengineered explosives
4xbloodstained mire
4xscrubland
8xswamp
1xtainted field
1xtomb of urami
4xwasteland
sb:
4xchainer's edict
3xdisenchant
4xwithered wretch
4xengineered plague
i think with the 3xee and the 3xlynx and with sb chainer's edict i have a really strong gro mu and still a good combo mu and a not that aggro mu because of the explosives.
i have cutted the sinkholes because the card did not much in my deck angainst many decks and the explosives are much better against many decks.
the only thing i was thinking about is to cut one lynx for a stp. what do you peole think of this?
A little tip: I believe Hypnotic SPecter is too slow in the current meta.
There's so much LD and disruption here for the control element wouldn't Gator main deck in place of Hyppy be a soild choice?
If not for the fact that Gator is smaller than Goyf, and would merely worsen our Goblin matchup, it could be considered...Perhaps when the meta switches to control? I'm trying out a different black fatty at the moment, though...