15 one offs including 1 hymn to tourach and so on ?
Best entertainment :-)
- Team RUG-STAR Berlin -
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15 one offs including 1 hymn to tourach and so on ?
Best entertainment :-)
- Team RUG-STAR Berlin -
Hi all,
i started playing the Deck 3/4 year ago and tried different lists here is my current:
2 Underground Sea
2 Tropical Island
2 Volcanic Island
1 Taiga
4 Misty Rainforest
3 Scalding Tarn
4 Wasteland
4 Delver of Secrets
3 Deathrite Shaman
2 Tarmogoyf
2 Nimble Mungoose
1 TNN
1 Snapcaster Mage
4 Ponder
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
4 Daze
4 Stifle
2 Spellsnare
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Abrupt Decay
1 Fire/Ice
Sideboard:
1 Loam
1 Grudge
2 Thoughtseize
3 Pyroblast
1 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Fire Covenant
2 Golgari Charm
1 Bitterblossom
1 Creeping Tarpit
1 Flusterstorm
1 X
I'm not that happy about the 2 Mungoos because i had a lot of Games when i had no ******** and two mungoos. I am thinking about cutting all and adding 2 Spellpierce but then i only have 1 Shroud guy with TNN...
The guy i like most is Snapcaster i rarely side him out and he doubles close to all Sideboard cards.
My Meta is very mixed but the most played are Sneak Show, Miracle and Death and Taxes. I hate the Sneak Show Matchup the easy solution would be to replace Snares with Pierce but Thalia, Stoneforge and Counterbalance are also hard so mayby - 2 Goyf/Goose + 2 Pierce?
I am looking forward to your ideas :)
regards M
You play the deck for 3 or 4 years?
Wow,great!
I mean the deck was invented by carsten linden and the german legacy crew during grand prix strassbourg last year.
But nice to hear that some people had the same idea generations before.
- Team RUG-STAR Berlin -
3/4 of a year = 9 monthsQuote:
Originally Posted by sawatarix
Grab a coffee, Kai
Too early in the morning i guess,thx buddy
- Team RUG-STAR Berlin -
eah I ment 9 months. Sorry my English skills are not that great :(
Regardless, we should not be nitpicking about irrelevant issues.Quote:
Originally Posted by MTB
Here is a list that did well in a MTGO daily on 4/22. This list blends the traditional bUrg list (created by carsten linden and the german legacy crew during grand prix strassbourg last year) with Eric Rill's "Spy Kids," which has seen recent success in the SCG circuit.
Thoughts on this list?
1 Badlands
3 Polluted Delta
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Tropical Island
3 Underground Sea
2 Volcanic Island
4 Wasteland
1 Dark Confidant
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Young Pyromancer
2 Abrupt Decay
4 Brainstorm
4 Daze
4 Force of Will
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Ponder
2 Spell Pierce
Sideboard
2 Abrupt Decay
2 Ancient Grudge
4 Cabal Therapy
2 Flusterstorm
2 Forked Bolt
1 Life from the Loam
1 Sylvan Library
1 Threads of Disloyalty
This list was piloted by "sad strong," who I believe is Todd Anderson irl.
Generally:
The deck strategy remains the same ,just the creatures changed and some spells to support the creatures (for example young pyromancer + gitaxian probe)
The main question is:
What is better right now,Nimble Mongoose,Tarmogoyf and True-Name Nemesis or Dark Confidant and Young Pyromancer?
- Team RUG-STAR Berlin -
The advantage of Young Pyromancer over the other threats is that Decay, Swords, Liliana, don't stop the aggression, reason why Rug went out of favor for a while. But Tarmogoyf/Shardless Agent/Batterskull, mainly, do. You just have to find a way to deal with them, which is easier than dealing with decay. Golgari Charm has to be considered post side, but this one we can counter.
I consider that tarmogoyf can result in a "timewalk" for the opponent : you tap 2, then the opponent plays decay/swords (hard to counter), and you're back to the point you were before. But the opponent drew 1 card and maybe landed. This is very problematic in a tempo deck playing stifle. (Dark confident has the same problem, and doesn't apply pressure.. I don't like this card in a tempo deck that plays stifle).
What I don't like about YP : what happens if you can't deal with Tarmogoyf ? Post side, I should have 3, or even 4 submerge for bug decks. The other thing is : YP has to be played as fast as possible to be efficient. This can be problematic, when you're trying to stifle your opponent. This is, I guess, the hard part of playing the deck. But here the probes are very useful ; you have to play them before YP in this case. No problem though, since you draw 1 card.
If you're on the top deck mode, YP is bad, but anyway, if you get there, you're not in a good position.
So the main concern I have now : Nimble Mongoose or Young Pyromancer ?
Nimble Mongoose is very similar to YP : it has shroud, but is weak against tarmogoyf/Batterskull. It allows us to keep 1 open to snare/stifle unlike yp (snare is not very good in a yp deck for that reason) and golgari charm in the sb.
But it doesn't bring enough pressure sometimes. The opponent doesn't have to deal with it if you don't have thresh, and this allows him to just land go for a few turns. And if you run something like 3 DRS 4 Mongoose, the only real pressure you have early is delver. Especially when the opponent runs grave hate. I would have no problem playing Mongoose if I could play 5-6 delvers^^.
What are your thoughts ?
My thoughts? You should get an idea how to use the term "to timewalk" within the game. Playing a 2cc creature into a 1-2cc removal is not "timewalking" in terms of stealing your opponent a whole turn or get a free attack because you tie his whole mana for a turn. RUG didn't face a problem because of Decay, otherwise it would have had Problem with Swords to Plowshares for more than a decade. The Problem is TNN which you can't block or overcome with Goose or Goyf.Quote:
Originally Posted by JosephK
YP is a victim to any removal in the format starting with StoP down to Disfigure. The one or two 1/1 elementals you get till YP is killed offer no pressure your tempo deck needs and the Token engine don't get you past any creature in the format. Calling this shroud is another misused term like timewalking.
Hmm, i explained the term "timewalk" (you tap 2, then the opponent plays decay/swords (hard to counter), and you're back to the point you were before. But the opponent drew 1 card and maybe landed. This is very problematic in a tempo deck playing stifle). When you play a tempo deck, you want to end the deck as early as possible. The term timewalk is easy to understand... Use something else if you want.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemnear
Decay was one of the reason of the fall of Rug, among other things (shaman, tnn yes).
Did you test YP ? It looks like you didn't. It's a "shroud"-like creature and i explained why, especially post side with submerge. Test it.
It is a very constructive post you did there.
I have a problem with the term "timewalk" if your opponent likely Decays/Bolts/StoP's Tarmogoyf either end of turn or in his turn and Drops a threat like Delver himself. To specify: a 2cc creature being removed by an 1cc instant is a bad Tempo play from your perspective here too.Quote:
Originally Posted by JosephK
I see a conceptional Problem with YP as you can't use your early mana and cantrips to gain control of the game and drop a threat later to close out the game fast (like with Tarmogoyf/Tombstalker) but have to play YP early and keep your cantrips/stifles/Wastelands back so your opponent can actually set his feet into the game which is counterintuitive. Even if you manage to untap with YP in the game you have to decide if you either burn mana and cantrips to create a clock or try to Ride a 2/1 (and occasional one or two elementals after countering some spells) slowly for another 6 turns (IF opponent can't handle him in like 6 fucking turns). I doubt you want to drag every game beyond like turn 8 with such a deck and scoop to every Terminus or Golgari Charm which are already the Checkpoints for current creatures.
I don't like the idea to control games with YP on the back of Submerge if the obvious Problem RUG had with the meta was not getting Goyf decayed but TNN being untouchable if you don't have REB available to counter it.
I'm glad that we finally got a constructive conversation going, despite a few transgressions.
Using the standard combo / control / aggro triangle, I'll give my thoughts on Goyf/NM/TNN vs. YP
Combo
Goyf and YP are about the same, with YP getting a slight nod for it's ability to ultimately do more damage and possibly block goblin tokens. NM is generally too slow vs. combo. TNN is also too slow and should come out vs. combo, despite being a U card for FOW.
Aggro
Goyf and TNN are better vs. the current 'aggro' meta. YP gets 2nd due to its ability to make a bunch of tokens to block or evade blockers. NM is not very good vs. aggro unless the game goes long.
Control
NM is hands down the best because it evades spot removal. TNN is 2nd. YP is a close 3rd. Goyf is last due to the fact that it suffers from spot removal and graveyard hate.
One potential advantage of YP is that it would allow you to cut G and run Grixis, although most players choose to keep G for DRS +2 and Abrupt Decay, and sideboard cards like Ancient Grudge, Life from the Loam, and Sylvan Library.
2 weeks ago i played a grixis tempo deck (say burg delver without goose but yp.)
in a local tournament and finished 2nd.
The manabase got a bit better and i crushed miracle,ant,elves,foodchain and lost to elves.
Still not sure about yp over goose,sometimes yp felt pretty clunky to be honest
- Team RUG-STAR Berlin -
I think Lemnear pretty much said all about why Pyromancer is worse in almost any MU. Getting 1 or 2 tokens before Pyromancer dies isnt a big enough upside for the lot of downsides( like a horrible topdeck, he most of the time cant attack, you cant play Golgari Charm or you have to play something like Gitaxian Probe instead of better cards to make it even playable). I cant understand why someone should say removel is the problem( hint: it is not). In MU with a lot of removel Mongoose and Goyf are the best threats because they produce the most pressure very fast while being immune to most removel.
Ya,Tarmogoyf is at least half-hexproof (he survives any kind of bolt-spells/punishing fire)
- Team RUG-STAR Berlin -
Hey guys,
I saw this list: http://www.tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=13663&iddeck=100390 and I thought that I would try to breath some new life into this thread. It's an interesting mix, running W for SFM and STP. No Goose, no Goyf, no Abrupt Decay. I haven't play tested with it yet, but I plan to give it a whirl shortly.
David
That mana base is horrifyingly bad. I beat him simplyon the back of land hate in the Swiss.
That is the greediest deck I have ever seen!Quote:
Originally Posted by Water_Wizard
It is basicly Uwr Delver with Stifles + Deathrite Shaman. Splashing 2! colors just for that seems pretty poor. Having a 5 color manabase with 4 wastelands and the manaelf in the splashcolors should make a lot more MUs worse than Deathrite makes better. But hey years before we splashed Goyf into everything :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Water_Wizard
On another point:
I am still happy with my maindeck but have to update my sideboard, because I am having problems with the Shardless BUG MU. Nearly every card is good against us. This is my SB for now:
2 Ancient Grudge
1 Abrupt Decay
3 Golgari Charm
1 Pithing Needle
2 Flusterstorm
2 Pyroblast
2 Envelop
1 Submerge
1 Spell Snare
I dont want to cut more then 2 slots for the MU most likely -1 Golgari Charm( but damm i love that card), -1 Submerge for +1 Spell Snare +1 Forked Bolt.
Have you guys also Problems with this deck and could give me some advise?