[Deck] Turbo Depths

Played a Legacy monthly today, finished 4-1

R1 2-0 over Eldrazi. Both games he starts with turn 1 amethyst, but I power through both turns on t3 anyway (g1 on a mull to 5).

R2 2-0 over RG Lands. G1 I have a turn 2 token. G2 I extract his loams, have wasteland covered with needle and have a window on my 6th turn.

R3 2-0 win vs UR Painter. G1 turn 2 token. G2 is a long grindfest in which I manage to combo.

R4 0-2 loss vs Death and Taxes. G1 I have 3 needles but no NotW for Swords and can't combo, die to beats. G2 I strip his hand, and wipe his board but don't have any follow-up and eventually die.

R5 2-1 over Rg Lands. G1 bog away 3 loams, needle his wasteland, it's a long grind in which I eventually manage to come out on top. G2 I mull to 6 and keep a very reactive hand. In spite of me fighting, I end up manascrewed and he comboes. G3 in the 3rd turn of extra turns he is forced to go for it (I'm 3-1, he is 2-1-1 and needs the win). He crop rotates for the combo , takes his turn, attacks, I crop rotate for the combo, block. Untap win in the 5th turn. A draw would've locked t8 too (but not for him).

Top 8 split.

Had some tough mulligan decisions but was happy w/ my play overall barring a few mistakes. Unfortunately no Miracles, which I do expect to face in a Legacy Invational I'm playing in two weeks in my country.
Has anyone considered Nissa, Vital Force for this matchup? She seems to be doing a lot of things we all want in the matchup.
+1 attack for five.
-2 return a permanent
ult is card advantage

I'm thinking of testing her.

Grats on the results.

Nissa seems good, but I worry about the double green, also 5 mana seems like a lot. But otherwise she would fit the deck well.


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I analyzed all the playable planeswalkers a few pages ago. Most playable are Garruk Relentless and Ob Nixilis Reignited, potentially also Freyalise.

Some results for utility land testing in the Miracles matchup:

Urza's Factory is playable. Once it gets going you're only worried about Mentor racing you or Blood Moon / Back to Basics shutting you down, so play accordingly. Only 2 post-board games of testing with this.

Similarly, once a land that requires 7 other lands to function is playable, so is Eye of Ugin. I believe the best card to get is Emrakul, the Promised End (could be wrong), which is usually castable on 8 lands (assuming Urborg is in play to make Depths + Eye tap for mana) since Eye reduces by 2 more. I tested this for 2 post-board games today. Really screws with their setup and can reset their boardstate, hand, and/or top 3 to clear a way for Marit Lage, particularly if Hexmage is already in play (can combo immediately after their extra turn). Are you going to use it like a Mindslaver and absolutly destroy them? No. However, they do need to Force / Counterspell it to stop it from being inevitable, and it is certainly very annoying.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DNSolver

I analyzed all the playable planeswalkers a few pages ago. Most playable are Garruk Relentless and Ob Nixilis Reignited, potentially also Freyalise.

Some results for utility land testing in the Miracles matchup:

Urza's Factory is playable. Once it gets going you're only worried about Mentor racing you or Blood Moon / Back to Basics shutting you down, so play accordingly. Only 2 post-board games of testing with this.

Similarly, once a land that requires 7 other lands to function is playable, so is Eye of Ugin. I believe the best card to get is Emrakul, the Promised End (could be wrong), which is usually castable on 8 lands (assuming Urborg is in play to make Depths + Eye tap for mana) since Eye reduces by 2 more. I tested this for 2 post-board games today. Really screws with their setup and can reset their boardstate, hand, and/or top 3 to clear a way for Marit Lage, particularly if Hexmage is already in play (can combo immediately after their extra turn). Are you going to use it like a Mindslaver and absolutly destroy them? No. However, they do need to Force / Counterspell it to stop it from being inevitable, and it is certainly very annoying.

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if your plan is to have 8 lands when using urza's factory just test emrakul 1.0. Best thing Miracles can do is terminus to buy 1 turn. Its why miracles pretty much ALWAYS loses to 12 post. Urzas factory is 1 card as opposed to 3 but inferior to emrakul.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DNSolver

Some results for utility land testing in the Miracles matchup:

Urza's Factory is playable. Once it gets going you're only worried about Mentor racing you or Blood Moon / Back to Basics shutting you down, so play accordingly. Only 2 post-board games of testing with this.
.

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Finally built the deck again after year or so. I remember testing Mishra'Factory against Miracles back then when dig was legal and we had to maindeck Pyroblasts. And Mishra's Factory was way too slow to reliably kill an opponent. Creeping Tar Pit was a bit better because of 3 power and unblock able, but stretched Mana base way too much. I like idea of playing emrakul though!

Top 8'ed an SCG IQ this past weekend going 3-0-2 (2x ID into top 8) beating bant blade, food chain, and eldrazi in the swiss and then loosing to omni-tell in the quarters of top 8. I had a deluge main instead of the 3rd NotW and LOVED it. It had moments in all 3 swiss matches. Omni-tell/Sneak and Show seem like rough/coin-flippy matchups that I definitely need to test more.

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Originally Posted by Lio

Finally built the deck again after year or so. I remember testing Mishra'Factory against Miracles back then when dig was legal and we had to maindeck Pyroblasts. And Mishra's Factory was way too slow to reliably kill an opponent. Creeping Tar Pit was a bit better because of 3 power and unblock able, but stretched Mana base way too much. I like idea of playing emrakul though!

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Depending on how much creature removal you run, i generally have more so my matches against d&t run longer, you might find emrakul is viable there too as a win con. The emrakul plan b is very strong because its strong agaist everyrhing marit lage is weak against.

Im actually surprised though that people seem to be having so much trouble with miracles and D&T but have not discussed ANT nearly as much. Maybe its under represented? Ant was always an issue for my versions because they are faster in all aspects and decently resilient to discard. Ive been able to fight. through it with liliana of the veil but im fairly certain no one else plays her.

@Apple: How are we supposed to cast Emrakul 1.0? My previous testing is without Cabal Coffers, and I think you are interpreting my results as having Cabal Coffers. Another land search would be difficult, not sure how I feel about another land to search out.

ANT hasn't been nearly as much of a problem as Miracles or Death and Taxes with my plan of 4 Surgicals 4 Chalices out of the board.

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Originally Posted by apple713

Im actually surprised though that people seem to be having so much trouble with miracles and D&T but have not discussed ANT nearly as much. Maybe its under represented? Ant was always an issue for my versions because they are faster in all aspects and decently resilient to discard. Ive been able to fight. through it with liliana of the veil but im fairly certain no one else plays her.

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I agree that ANT has been tough. Discard helps but their deck is so redundant that often they can rip a topdeck that nullifies that discard. A lot of storm players default to the past in flames kill which you can sometimes get them with a crop into bog but the good storm players should see that coming. Sphere helps if they don't rip it out of your hand or go off before you play it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DNSolver

@Apple: How are we supposed to cast Emrakul 1.0? My previous testing is without Cabal Coffers, and I think you are interpreting my results as having Cabal Coffers. Another land search would be difficult, not sure how I feel about another land to search out.

ANT hasn't been nearly as much of a problem as Miracles or Death and Taxes with my plan of 4 Surgicals 4 Chalices out of the board.

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Could you post/link to your latest list? I'm trying this out tomorrow and would like to take a peek.

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Current paper list:

4 Vampire Hexmage
4 Elvish Spirit Guide
4 Lotus Petal
4 Thoughtseize
4 Duress
4 Crop Rotation
3 Expedition Map
3 Pithing Needle
4 Sylvan Scrying
3 Not of This World
4 Dark Depths
4 Thespian's Stage
3 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Bayou
1 Blooming Marsh
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Forest
1 Swamp
1 Sejiri Steppe
1 Bojuka Bog

SB:
3-4 Chalice of the Void*
3-4 Surgical Extraction*
4 Abrupt Decay
1 Pithing Needle
1 Eye of Ugin
1 Emrakul, the Promised End
1 Karakas

*Can't decide whether to play 3 Chalice or 3 Surgical in the board. Maindeck is solid.

Current online testing list, same as above with the following changes:
-1 Duress
-1 Elvish Spirit Guide
-0-1 Sylvan Scrying
+2-3 Sylvan Library

SB:
same

Why the differences between the two lists? Meta? Budget? Or is one just more experimental than the other?

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by DNSolver

@Apple: How are we supposed to cast Emrakul 1.0? My previous testing is without Cabal Coffers, and I think you are interpreting my results as having Cabal Coffers. Another land search would be difficult, not sure how I feel about another land to search out.

ANT hasn't been nearly as much of a problem as Miracles or Death and Taxes with my plan of 4 Surgicals 4 Chalices out of the board.

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To cast emrakul 1.0 you would need coffers. There is no way around that. However if miracles is really that bad for you getting rid of karakas for a coffers might be worth it. Certainly worth testing. karakas is usually the first to get cut in my experience. Seems to be meta dependant. Like if you have alot of reanimator and s&t.

So has anyone looked at Pia's Revolution from Aether Revolt? I think there may be some synergy for our deck. It is stupid good with Lotus petal and would be very good with map. I am not sure how to do it now, but it would be interesting to use this card as an alternative win con if we need to play a long game.

I don't understand how that card will help much. In the best case scenario where our opponent takes 3 every time, it's going to take more than half our artifacts to do enough damage. Further, wouldn't you rather have a consistent damage source such as Curse of the Pierced Heart? That's a card that actually does something in the extreme long game.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DNSolver

I don't understand how that card will help much. In the best case scenario where our opponent takes 3 every time, it's going to take more than half our artifacts to do enough damage. Further, wouldn't you rather have a consistent damage source such as Curse of the Pierced Heart? That's a card that actually does something in the extreme long game.

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I am not sure there is anything there speicifically, but Petal + Revolution seemed to be interesting. Always looking for a plan B in a combo deck, even though we are more or less all in on the combo.

I think Pia's Revolution belongs in a Smokestack/Tangle Wire deck, can't really see it shining in Dark Depths.

@Negator77, if you are still playing the blue version of the deck, do you think disallow has any place in the deck? Its a voidslime for 1UU. I've been waiting for a card like this for a long time but hoping it cost less.

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Originally Posted by apple713

@Negator77, if you are still playing the blue version of the deck, do you think disallow has any place in the deck? Its a voidslime for 1UU. I've been waiting for a card like this for a long time but hoping it cost less.

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I haven't been able to make it out to a paper tourney since August and have only played in a few leagues and the legacy community league online over the past three months, but yeah I'm still on BUG when I get to play. Double blue and 1 is rough to have up when you need it. I don't dislike the card in general, it just requires 6+ lands/mana (full land combo + this card) or Hexmage/Depths and 3 mana (two of which needs to be blue). Even with the tri lands and moxes, that's a big ask in a reasonable time frame where windows are small in some of the match-ups you would want it in.

I've been doing well against D+T, Maverick, Eldrazi+ Taxes, and Miracles recently in the community league by running Stifle. It hits basically all of the main problem cards outside of STP which the deck has a ton of answers too... As an additional answer to Wasteland and especially Top into protected Plow or countering a Terminus miracle trigger.... it has been solid.

Could you post the BUG decklist with stifles? That sounds awesome.