Printable View
@Square_two: I've answered at your message without seeing your reply.
Now, i've just discussed the presence of stp, so:
@D&T: a version with also Vryn is obv worse for us, and this is another MU where i think that more ramp can give us way more speed than a spot removal. For example, i'm playing a single DRS or a Dryad, both good especially in a list with so many gsz.
As said by you, i'm really loving Souls too, and i can imagine to add the third one.
So lads what shall we play instead of top?
Sylvan Library?
With Deed? More Painful Truths I suppose.Quote:
Originally Posted by Luthiereisfun
Now siege rhino suddenly becomes the best card in the archetype? [emoji23]
Hard to say how this is for us. Losing Top is pretty big. I predict a pretty large increase in BUG and delver decks which should be a positive for us.
Our BUG fit simply starts running Brainstorm? Junk/Jund - either Libraries or more CA engines like Tracker seem like the best ways to go.
Might run some more of my BUG fit with 4 Trackers 3 Jace, and find something to fill in the 2 Top spots. Seemed like a pretty great delver killer.
I don't see nice things coming for us, guys. Let's hope that Burn and fast combo won't rise too much.
I am fucking stoked.
Now I can devote literally the other half of the sideboard to storm. I think we are fine, really.Quote:
Originally Posted by Memories of the Time
Discard is better now, and thrun becomes a real magic card. Terminus is unplayable. Jace becomes less threatening if they can't contain the board, and now they have to do it the classic and fair way.
So much deck building space is open now, and I'm not even taking only about this deck
I hyperventilated a little bit. I'm so stressed out because of this. I just tweaked my list to reflect a lot of the suggestions you all gave me and it was running smooth losing top is horrifying. It was the best card in our deck. At least in rhino fit.
Guess I have to rely on library and truths and like.. nights whisper or some shit.
So, by default that means i drop Courser of Kruphix. With Top gone that opens 4 slots. For now i'll probably settle on 2x Painful Truths and 2x Sylvan Library as default for CA. I'll also probably drop Chandra, ToD in favor of Chandra, Flamecaller in the PFire Jund list.
I agree losing top sucks. From my experience though Rhino Fit gains the most from this. Miracles was not a great matchup. I also feel like Rhino benefitted the least from top out of the Nic Fit variants. Rhino Fit has enough lifegain that running cards like painful truths/nights whisper don't hurt nearly as much and to me the deck just wanted threats and gas more then filtering to find specific cards.Quote:
Originally Posted by removedfromgame
Edit: I'd also like to add that the biggest reason to run top imo was it dodged pernicious deed.
Pouring one out for the only good guys that used top. RIP old-style nic fit.
Natural Order nic fit just became way more viable. Progenitus is looking great right now with Terminus gone and way less Council's Judgment to worry about.
I figured this would happen sooner or later. As far as SE is concerned it's basically a completely free switch to Sylvan Library. Mirri's Guile is possible as well, but I'm going to hold off on picking them up at the moment. Actually, in preperation for this announcement I just picked up 2 more Libraries to complete my playset, so that will do for the moment.Quote:
Originally Posted by Luthiereisfun
This change is actually good for us, Top lead to some really slow starts, but was necessary for it's power level. Starts that can take advantage of Phyrexian Tower will now be much better. I think we're going to need more discard going forward though, this is a very big boost for combo.
This was a huge boost for SE which has a lower curve and fell victim to Counterbalance more.Quote:
Originally Posted by rubblekill
The biggest effect of this change is that I'm totally willing to drop Abrupt Decay for Fatal Push now.
Also, some interesting BUG tech since we won't have Library to guarantee Revolt triggers now is Oboro, Palace in the Clouds. Has a great Tireless Tracker interaction too.
I disagree. Guile and Library both still enable the same Courser shenanigans. I do think that with Top gone to get something right away, Tireless Trackers stock rises a bit.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobmans
I'm thinking of playing legacy again with Nic Fit, have I missed anything since I was gone? :wink:
But yea, this seems like good news for us, opens up the format's room for more control decks, aka us
Makes combo stronger... but delver will still be around and we can stop focusing so much deck/sideboard space on miracles and even more on combo
Hm, are you up to speed on Sneak Fit? Latest Nyx Fit developments? (that might be gone now, Top was huge there) SE fit along with BG and other versions with Depths combo have also been discussed in past couple months.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jain_Mor
I think we could brew with Natural Order again, I also think plain Rhinos + PTruths might just be the simple sweet spot to be at. BUG lists not as impacted by losing top. Meren + Titania just got way better - going to add Meren to my bug list for sure.
So in a typical rhino list. I'm between adding truths vs library. In general I think SL is much better but in Nic Fit running SL with deed is awkward. Would it be reasonable to switch to Toxic Deluge in a SL list? That's a lot of life loss but Rhino has many ways to gain life. Maybe a split of truths/library and a split of deed and deluge?
Not sure
isn't leovald a huge thing now (especially with terminus worse), making library and truths worse compared to other CA engines like tracker, SFM, bob, meren, planeswalkers etc?