[Deck] Suicide Black

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Originally Posted by Slayer001

match 3 vs Burn

I can't win this so

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Duress would have been a beating in this matchup. Hymn to Tourach as well can be gg, because burn runs out of gas quite quickly.

Here is my latest list if anyone cares :tongue:

Creatures
4x Bob
4x Hyppie
4x Shade
4x Hand of Cruelty
3x Gator

Disruption
4x Thoughtseize
4x Hymn to Tourach
3x Duress

Removal
2x Jitte
3x Smother

Mana and accelerants
4x Dark Ritual
3x Chrome Mox
18x Swamp

SB

4x Dystopia
4x Engineered Plague
4x Leyline of the Void
3x Pithing Needle

Boo hoo, I am not running the full 12 discard package. I think I will live. Gator is still in my deck, all of you haters can go home. Jitte is a requirement for Gator builds, as is a few smothers. Perhaps my reasons for not running a few playset of them isn't the best, but here are a two reasons. One, with only 2 jittes (perhaps I should shoehorn in another) and 3 smothers my removal support is mediocre. Two, merely a few mana concerns here and there started to bother me so I thought lowering the count of Gators might help. I wouldn't want to decrease the amount of Hyppies as I feel they are more vital and turn 2 Hyppies is what Mox builds are all about.

Black Knights are better in decks with more Jittes and Cursed Scroll, but my build only has 2 jittes... Yes, that blows doesn't it. Perhaps I should look at my smother slot a little harder huh. Anyway, Hand of Cruelty will trade with a Mongoose without jitte or any outside assistance.

If it was only straight burn I could have won but very hard but is was with browbeat and seismic assault and those hurt :frown:
and Burn is a very bad matchup if you don't have turn1 ritual, thoughseize or duress and hymn in hand

I've always liked Hand of Cruelty, but couldn't bring myself to replace Black Knight or Stromgald Crusader with him. Aside from the Mongoose situation, what other 3/3 creatures did you come across where Hand of Cruelty took care of it? Most creatures in Legacy are 2/1 or 2/2 (Mishra's Factory, Confidant, Meddling Mage, etc), so wouldn't a Black Knight work just as well?

maybe hand of cruelty is better then black knight but I think they are somewhat thesame, he trades also with samurai of the pale curtain, rogue elephant with 3/3 gathan riders (no hellbent) and an unpumped rakdos pit dragon with no hellbent. I will test him out in place of black knight

I would agree that Black Knight would be more optimal with more Cursed Scrolls and Jittes to make use of his first strike ability. If you only have two and maybe three Jittes, the fact that Hand of Cruelty will trade more often with a Goose is highly relevant imo. For me that is enough, because Thresh sees so much play. Stromgald Crusader of course gets around that by merely jumping over shit, and perhaps he may still be better. Still, I enjoy the fact that no pump is necessary and Hand of Cruelty is self-sufficent.

Hand Of cruelty is better in the new meta with all the thresh. I have now created a deck with a green splash and tried it out.

this is what ik looks like

4x Bloodstained mire
4x Polluted Delta
4x Bayou
3x Urborg
5x Swamp

4x Dark ritual
4x Hymn
4x Duress or thoughtseize
3x Smother
2x diabloic edict
3x jitte
4x rancor

4x Shade
4x hippie
4x bob
4x tarmogoyf

SB:

4x Dystopia
4x Engineered Plague
4x Krosan Grip
3x Pithing needle

Dystopia works great together with rancor, and your opponent suffers hard from it, and the krosan grip removal is awesome, I now even can win against Dragon Stompy( killing their lockpieces)

don't know if I should put in wastelands, I have nothing against manlands except for my removal and jittes

@Slayer: Wow, I feel stupid... I totally overlooked the fact that Rancor and Dystopia are sick together. Sac the Rancor to Dystopia, get it back to your hand. Very nice. The main reason for rancor though has to be trampling Shades. That seems quite scary to me. I wouldn't worry about man lands too much, because you have removal and pithing needles in the board. I will call that strong coverage.

Urborg isn't needed anymore with no wastelands, maybe for fetches
I don't know if Urborg gives black if there is a blood moon or magus of the moon on the table, but I think not because all nonbasic lands become basic mountains so no abilities anymore. But I don't know for sure.

And 4 rancor is to much, you will stick with two in opening hand sometimes. So I'll cut 2 for 2 Chrome mox and test those out. What if rancor is countered by an chalice of the void at 1, goes it back to my hand or to the yard ? I need to know because it grows my goyf else

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Slayer001

What if rancor is countered by an chalice of the void at 1, goes it back to my hand or to the yard ? I need to know because it grows my goyf else

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"When Rancor is put into a graveyard from play, return Rancor to its owner's hand."

It will remain in the yard.

that's what I thought also, but thx anyway for the confirment

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Slayer001

Urborg isn't needed anymore with no wastelands, maybe for fetches
I don't know if Urborg gives black if there is a blood moon or magus of the moon on the table, but I think not because all nonbasic lands become basic mountains so no abilities anymore. But I don't know for sure.

And 4 rancor is to much, you will stick with two in opening hand sometimes. So I'll cut 2 for 2 Chrome mox and test those out. What if rancor is countered by an chalice of the void at 1, goes it back to my hand or to the yard ? I need to know because it grows my goyf else

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No, Urborg becomes a mountain and everything else ceases having "swamp" added to it because Urborg no longer is giving it to them because its just a mountain. However, Non-basic lands always stay non-basic regardless of the effect. So it becomes a non-basic mountain (and only a mountain), price of progress will still deal 2 damage for each one of those non-basic lands that are now mountains.

Did some matchups with my deck on MWS. this is the deck I used

Mana
4x Bloodstained Mire
4x Polluted Delta
3x Urborg, tomb Of Yawgmoth
4x Bayou
4x Swamp
2x Forest
4x Dark Ritual

Spells
4x Hymn to Tourach
3x Thoughtseize
3x Duress
3x Smother
2x Diabolic Edict
3X Umezawa's jitte
2x Rancor

Creatures
4x Dark Confidant
4x Nantuko Shade
4X Hypnotic Specter
4x Tarmogoyf

Sideboard
4x Krosan Grip
4x Engineered Plague
4x Leyline Of the void
3x Pithing Needle

Dragon Stompy 1-1-0 (2-1 and 1-2)

Pox 0-1-0 (1-2)

R/w Vial Goblins 1-0-0(2-1)

Landstill 0-1-0 (0-1)--> he dropped after first game so couldn't use SB

Green Stompy 1-0-0 (2-0)

Terrageddon 0-1-0 (0-2)

Dreadnought Sligh 1-0-0 (1-0) --> He dropped after first game

From this one I remmeber some things:
I win Dece roll and go first, kept my hand (what I better didn't do), hadn't a 1 drop. He mulls to 6. I play swamp, go. He fetches underground sea and go. I played dark ritual,duress that I topdecked and discarded his stifle, then with the 2 mana from ritual hymn to tourach, and he randomly discards an phyrexian dreadnought and a daze, end my turn. He plays trinket mage searching for sensei's divining top and ends his turn. Then 3 rounds of land drawing and he wasting my lands he coudn't do nothing either (those weird draws on MWS). Then I got my first creature: Natuko shade and put it into play with rancor on it. He trickbinds an dreadnought I diabolic edict him. I draw another shade. attacked for 5 with shade and played 2nd shade. He stifles a dreadnought he got with another trinket mage. I topdeck ritual and attack with both of my shades he blocks one with dreadnought (the one with rancor) and the other with a trinket mage
i pump my shade till 12/11 and kill his dreadnought and a trinket mage and 1 of my shades. He plays another dreadnought with stifle I smother that one. and he scoops :P

And on the Urborg and blood moon thing, that was what i thought also, but thx for the confirment :)

I also posted this on the Green Death forum, but with the huge number of great cards that green gives this deck access to, I'm not certain that land destruction is the best possible way to use up slots.

So here's what I'm messing around with right now.

//Disruption
4 Thoughtseize
4 Hymn to Tourach

//Creatures
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Hypnotic Specter
4 Phyrexian Negator
4 Dark Confidant

//Utility
3 Rancor
3 Berserk
3 Reanimate
3 Ghastly Demise

//Mana
4 Dark Ritual
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Polluted Delta
4 Bayou
4 Swamp
2 Snowcovered Swamp
2 Cabal Pit

//Sideboard
4 Leyline of the Void
4 Engineered Plague
4 Dystopia
3 Jitte

The main question mark right now seems to be.

Smother vs. Ghastly Demise

Which should this deck be running and why?

Also, the sideboard needs a ton of work. I just threw it together.

Since you guys are discussing creatures as well, I'll throw in my two cents. Goyf, Specter and Negator are a given IMO. The best options for that final slot are Dark Confidant, Nantuko Shade, Oona's Prowler, Rotting Giant and Tombstalker (if you're not playing Confidants or Rotting Giants obviously). Take your pick.

I've never liked Berserk, it's far too situational for my liking. What have you found in your testing? Also, why MD Rancor > MD Jitte? Jitte's postitives far outweigh it's negatives imo. The lifegain can be a difference maker in some games, and the fact that it serves an important role of spot removal plus beefing up your creatures, I can't see how you relegate it to the SB and put Rancor (albeit an amazing card in it's own right) in it's place.

I'm not really confortable with rancor, berserk and reanimate in that list. I'd personaly cut them for more removal and some jittes (especially since you're running negators which will stand there when facing a big creature on the other side of the table, unless you like 5 for 1'ing yourself)

berserk is just a reckless abandon in this deck, I mean it's cool but I can't see the infatuation with the card (and the $$ tag really turns me off, for what it does). and reanimate looks random.

Not a fan of reanimate and berserk in this deck either. Rancor is very good as a 2 of so you don't stick with 2 in your opening hand, jittes are to good MD to do not put them there like arsenal said its removal, pump and lifegain all on its own. And jitte is absolutely needed with negator MD

After reading the Green Death thread more thouroughly, I can see why Rancor + Berserk are there; the deck is playing a much more aggressive style than traditional mono-Sui Black. I can see why Rancor + Berserk > Jitte MD, but what about Reanimate? By playing only 3 true spot removal spells (I guess you can count Thoughtseize too, but I don't personally), how often do you find yourself killing a crucial creature, then Reanimating it? How often do you Reanimate your own fatty that's been countered, killed, etc? How often do your opponents try to trade with in in combat? Not often I'm guessing with Goyf + Negator + Berserk + Rancor. What has your testing shown?

I am not a fan of suicide but has anyone considered Lurking evil instead of phyrexian negator.Paying half your life can be dangerous.But i think this card is better against threshold cause it flyes.I haven t tested it cause i dont play suicide for the moment.Has anyone tryed it ??? Or is it automatically removed because of the half your life cost?? You are the aggro deck in most of the matchup i think....

Taken from the "Green Death" thread.

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I smiled a bit when I saw this thread.

It's funny because just a few days ago, I thought I'd update Red Death by splashing it with green for Tarmogoyf. I actually called it "Green Death."

Anyway, here's my list:

// Deck file for Magic Workstation (http://www.magicworkstation.com)

// Lands
4 [ON] Polluted Delta
4 [TE] Wasteland
3 [ON] Bloodstained Mire
7 [CS] Snow-Covered Swamp
3 [A] Bayou

// Creatures
4 [LRW] Oona's Prowler
4 [FUT] Tarmogoyf
4 [RAV] Dark Confidant
3 [10E] Hypnotic Specter

// Spells
4 [IA] Dark Ritual
4 [AT] Hymn to Tourach
4 [u] Sinkhole
4 [BOK] Umezawa's Jitte
4 [LRW] Thoughtseize
4 [MM] Snuff Out

// Sideboard
SB: 4 [7E] Engineered Plague
SB: 4 [GP] Leyline of the Void
SB: 3 [7E] Duress
SB: 4 [AL] Dystopia

I took out Rotting Giant and Phyrexian Negator because Rotting Giant is too weak with Goyf around and Phyrexian Negator may trump a Goyf, it's still not fun taking 4 damage and saccing 4 permanents.

I replaced with the MD Duresses with MD Thoughtseize and replaced the sb Therapies with plan Duresses. And I moved the 4 Jitte in the sb to the MD and added 4 Leyline of the Void to the sb.

While Tarmogoyf was the inspiration of the idea of a "Green Death" deck, Oona's Prowler is what made me actually build the deck and test it out. With Jitte MD, Oona's Prowler seems awesome since it flies.

The reason I use Snuff Out is because most importantly, it's 3B so it dodges Counterbalance (even better than 4B since FoW is 3UU), and plus it's free, hence it dodges Daze as well.

I feel like the weakest card in the deck is Dark Ritual.

Anyway, I'd appreciate any comments.

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Also, granted Reanimate is not as narrow, but for the sake of not losing life, why not use Unearth? At least it cycles if it's useless.

Reanimate takes your opponent's guys in a pinch, though, whereas Unearth does not.

Unearth would allow you to run something along the lines of Skittering Skirge instead of the godawful Oona's Prowler, though.