[Deck] Pox

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Originally Posted by mujadaddy

Pox tries to function on 3 lands. Traditionally, that has tied down the finishers to cheap and/or 'immune' cards.

I tried to put Drain Life in, but it was too slow, even as a 1-of. I hardly ever got to cast it for more than 3 in a non-winmore situation. For coffers, your best case scenario is something like 3 lands, 1 Urborg, 1 coffer. Tap 2, tap coffers, 5 black mana, tap the last 2, seven.

What would you do with that? I'm fishing for responses, not confrontation--I really want to know what "ought to" be done with that 7 mana.

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I was kind of fishing myself. I guess I was trying to help address the deck's tendency to peter out and end up in topdeck mode; I fondly remember the Torment-era monoblack decks that ran Planar Portal (and even more fondly the days when Temporal Aperture was useful, although I'm not sure I like that option as much). I was likewise hoping for five- or six-mana threats to become relevant, especially if you can Pox, untap, make your land drop, and make a giant dude. Much as I love Tombstalker, sometimes you don't have enough stuff to delve to easily make him. Especially if you're running Crucible, and even more so if you're running Crucible in conjunction with Retrace stuff.

I guess Coffers would make Staff of Domination okay if you could stick it, but the problem I'm now running into is Krosan Grip. :rolleyes: It would, at least, keep the Grips away from your Crucibles, I guess.

@B is for Big Job: Idols + Factories do not get along.

re: Extirpate -- I certainly run 2 in my old sideboard, and recent retooling along with you fine folk has kicked that up to 4 in the side. I can't speak about maindecking them, because I'm running seekrit tek that requires I leave it out.

re: Grip -- Run more targets for it! :laugh: Arena, Factory, Crucible, Totem should all be fighting for Krosan Grip's attention.

re: Kaervek's Spite -- Yikes. Maybe in the sideboard, but how does it feel to have that countered? :cry: :cry: ...Soul Feast seems strictly better; even if it costs 2 more, it doesn't require you to wipe your board.

re: Ritual of the Machine & Ashen Powder -- Ashen Powder seems like it has more synergy, alongside poxes & other sacrifice effects... but it becomes an expensive dead card vs. some decks... RotM might have more synergy, but you can't steal black or artifact creatures. It seems a safer bet to just kill the enemy creatures with sac effects.

re: Staff of Domination -- that's for a much more mana-hungry deck, I think -- 'regular MBC.'

re: Guiltfeeder -- I'd love to be able to run him. I think he's too slow, though. I could be wrong.

re: Nyaxthid -- I'm not sure which opposing deck this creature would be good against. My experience is that Landstill & Loam decks are tough, tooth&nail matches, and they run too many lands to take care of effectively, and they run cycling lands & Loam to fill up their hands, keeping Nyaxthid small. The other tough matches are fast aggro & burn. Nyaxthid does nothing for either, I think. Leaving your 5/5 or 6/6 around to block weenies, slowly, completely neutralizes his advantage; no trample completely neutralizes any attacking strength he'd have vs. swarms. Against Burn, sure you have a 7/7 that can attack on turn 4, but that's 3 more turns, during which, most of the time, they've finished you. Faster if you Poxed.

So, we're left with Tombstalker and PhyTotem for our big boys, I think. The advantage that both of these have is size, evasion, and speed-to-cast. They fit perfectly after Poxing as 2-3 turn clocks. Unfortunately, they both share a disadvantage: Multiples suck.

I'm now running 2 Tombstalker in my deck. It was a tough choice but cut down from 24 to 23 land, and one dark ritual.

Well, results speak for themself it friggin ran game on friends countertop. Friend thinks I should run more than 2 extirpate main.. just extirpaiting their fetches off the bat messes them up not only land count and card types, but ability to sac and reshuffle 4 top. Extirpating a goyf/top aint shabby either off the bat lol, still I'm not convinced to go more than 2 unless sideboarded :tongue:

Long way before I'm even close to sealing the deck, but I think we're deffinitely moving in the right direction with it. When ya start to shake up the tier 1 decks, shows its a step in the right direction... plus, black is badass, and decks that run blue are Nancy's >.< the english silly nanny's of magic, rofl jk

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Originally Posted by Mystical_Jackass

When ya start to shake up the tier 1 decks, shows its a step in the right direction...

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Pox.dec completely embarrasses Dragon Stompy -- we run a fk'd up curve, they run very few threats, so just a few Sac effects takes them out of the game.

Counter/Top is also not a tough matchup -- I played a Counter/Top deck earlier today, and I won with a Totem, a Factory and 'Stalker on the board -- he had 3 goyfs & a Heirarch out, but putting out the 'Stalker took out Enchantment & Sorcery from the yard, so the turn Stalker came out, Goyf went from 5/6 to 3/4, and he couldnt' swing into me any more. Counter/Top only runs a few hard counters, and, again, our curve is fk'd up for trying to counterbalance us. (He cb'ed ONCE, Goyf on Smallpox)

Aggro/Loam & Landstill are tough pre-board, because they run the Grips to take out the Crucibles that make the Wastelands dangerous.

I bet maindeck Extirpates even those out though. I only run them in the side, but I've recently gone up to 4 from 2.

M_J: You took out 1 Dark Ritual? How many does that leave you running? Dark Ritual+Tombstalker = BFF's :tongue:

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Originally Posted by Mystical_Jackass

plus, black is badass, and decks that run blue are Nancy's >.< the english silly nanny's of magic, rofl jk

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Hehehe, yeah, I get bored playing a MUC deck. :b: makes you feel like you're destroying something :cool:

@Mystical Jackass: Pox decks really should just go all out with Tombstalker. I would advise to use at least 3 copies of the demon. I myself use 4 and have never really looked back. The increased number of copies allowing you to draw into tombstalker more consistently after wiping the board clean is a very real advantage. So much so that it completely outweighs the rare "multiple tombstalkers in my opening hand" scenario. And besides, if you have 3 tombstalkers in your opening hand, you really should be mulling.

Use 3-4 Tombstalkers.

I'm as convinced on 3 Tombstalkers as you can possibly be, but when I was testing them in deck initially, 4 seemed like it was too many. "draw into tombstalker more consistently after wiping the board clean" <-- Topdecking a Tombstalker after wiping the board is indeed nice, but 2-in-hand is not.

I'm not saying "Never 4"...I am saying "Always (at least) 3"... It's not like Hymn, or Dark Ritual, where you run 4 to ensure you see one in your opening hand... It's more like, you want to see one per game, but only because it's really unlikely that you'll be able to cast 2.

As always, Your Mileage May Vary, so test it out for yourself. But 3 is the minimum, imo.

I am convinced that Tombstalker is one of if not the best threat the deck can run, and should be run as four copies. If you have multiples, its not like you can't pitch one to your Smallpox and Pox. He wins games on his own, and you want to run more copies to saturate the opponent's removal.

When I got my first three, I went from a barely winning record to an incredibly successful one with the deck. When I added the fourth I'm not sure if it increased much, but I can say my comfort level playing increased dramatically. I've almost never regretted drawing two in any game where it occurred.

He also is useful against 'goyf, and contrary to popular belief has synergy with Nether Spirit. In fact, I'd go so far as to say people shouldn't choose between the two, but instead understand that running Tombstalker is a good reason to run Nether Spirit.

My question would be, have you ever cast two in the same game? I've been thinking about it, and I'm pretty sure I've never done that.

Also, if your GY is completely full of cards, no, TS & NS don't dis-synergize... it's when NS is in the yard, and you've got exactly enough cards + mana to cast TS that they are a dis-synergy.

...I ran into a B/W/G Madness deck on MWS the other day, that completely worked me over. I'm not even sure why, but he had too much powah for me. My draws were kinda crappy, but he still shouldn't have dominated me like he did. Oh well. I still like my deck.

Anyone have any suggestions for the AN-Tendrils combo matchup?

For those interested in a big finisher with cabal coffers/urbrog, helldozer seems to be a fine way to use all the extra mana to lock out your opponent while boasting a respectable body.

Helldozer 3BBB
BBB, tap: destroy target land. If that land is non-basic, untap helldozer.
6/5

I personally dont think coffers is the right direction, but this guy seems like an incredible way to REALLY win a game.

This deck doesn't need a buffed out dwarven miner though.. so many spells in the deck destroy lands anyways heh. We're looking for a flat out "finisher", aka "finish the job quick!"
Also, like over half the decks you'll play will run basics; Pretty much leaves you with a 6/5 nubsicle on a stick @.@

.. tombstalker works on a lower curve and has evasion and does nearly the same damage, I'd even go soul feast over that 'cause it does its effect right away with an 8 life margin.

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Originally Posted by mujadaddy

Anyone have any suggestions for the AN-Tendrils combo matchup?

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You do realize you're on the Pox thread, right? A thread about a mono-black deck with more hand control than a sober cheerleader?

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Originally Posted by coraz86

You do realize you're on the Pox thread, right? A thread about a mono-black deck with more hand control than a sober cheerleader?

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Hand control (+black LD) doesn't really do anything against combo. Yes, it will buy you time. But if you can't finish the game quickly then the combo player can just go Ill-gotten gains --> win. I have demolished ANT players in the past--keeping them off 5 mana with pinpoint discard and LD while hitting at their life totals can work--but it is far from easy and not really reliable against good players/builds.

As for mujadaddy's original question, I typically board in chalice of the void against storm combo.

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Originally Posted by eternaldarkness

As for mujadaddy's original question, I typically board in chalice of the void against storm combo.

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Yes, all that other stuff, too. ANT is really, really fast.

G1, I didn't realize he was Combo until he started going off. G2 -- I did use Chalice, got one out for zero, and I had the guy Burning Wish for Meltdown :rolleyes: . I even had an Extirpate in hand, but they run too many different types of acceleration for that to work (I tried :laugh: ) ... I didn't have the pure nut-draw, but even G1, I Hymned him, and he still went off by T3.

It's a coin-flip, but I don't think it's in our favor at all. I also don't think there's much room in the sideboard to actually worry about it, other than 4x Chalice.

I think you'd almost have to have dark ritual- trinisphere to even have a chance, storm's just so fast. Yeah, dark ritual, hymn, duress, pox, ... only way to slow them down to try to pull a rabbit outta your hat >.<

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Originally Posted by Mystical_Jackass

... only way to slow them down to try to pull a rabbit outta your hat >.<

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And sometimes that happens, it's just very inconsistent.

You bring up a point, though. Since we already run acceleration (Ritual or Mox Diamond), would it be possible to put Trinispheres in the maindeck? That would be a house, along with the regular land & hand pressure. It might slow us down a tad, but the deck doesn't run that many 1's or 2's, really. I know it's more appropriate for the sideboard without completely transforming the deck, but I've already kinda transformed my version of Pox, so try to think about it post-sideboarding, if you care to comment.

Restated, does Trinisphere help against more decks than just Storm Combo, and if so, enough to run 4 in the sideboard?

I run Extirpate main against Combo. Since this card is never dead and always nice to have, it`s really a good mainboardsolution for a combointensive metagame. Yes, sometimes they will just go into their combo turn1 on the play and maybe even with protection... But in other cases, there is often time to play some sort of discard and then, extirpate on whatever there is in the GY will help.

Examples: Against Solidarity, Extirpate on Meditate, Reset or High Tide is really gamebreaking. Against Ichorid, Extirpate on Bridge from Below will help, sometimes it`s possible to remove Ichorids or Dredger or other pieces. Against Stormcombo (if they have no Orim`s Chant to play) you can just remove a draw-4-card or something equal.

Ichorid.. leyline the void wins. crypts, planar void, extirpate, ebony charm.. all good options too.

Storm. I dunno, pray they dont 1st turn kill you. Get a good discard hand to slow them down, they need at least 5+ cards to combo effectively.

I dunno, you'd really have to pull a rabbit outta your hat.

I suppose you could do something really tricky.
Prolly play bonds of agony, drop eachother down to 1 life. Next turn, try to ritual + syphon.. er, swing with factory or something. Anything over turn 3 is prolly a deathwish though

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Originally Posted by Mystical_Jackass

bonds of agony, drop eachother down to 1 life.

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Did you miss the "X" in the casting cost? I know I did the first time I read the card, but not the second :wink:

Trinisphere actually isn't a bad idea, that or Sphere of Resistance. You could drop one of the long-game ingredients against combo to sideboard these in. I think I'd try Trinisphere first, but SoR is notable for it's lower mana cost.
Trinisphere is solid against decks like Thresh, Goblins, Merfolk, unexpecting mirror matches, etc. where the goal is to get way ahead early and keep you on your heels. It might not be the best option in other matchups, but it's certainly good enough to try.
Chalice@1 shuts off your Rituals and Duress (and Thoughtseize if you're using it). It's not bad on zero though. I'd rather keep with the mana denial element (Sphere of Resistance, Trinisphere, Thorn of Amethyst even), so I personally wouldn't SB Chalice, but that's a taste issue rather than a card quality issue.

Also note that second turn Ritual->Pox against ANT not only deprives them of cards in hand and land, but seven life. That's often the difference between them spilling fifteen life on Ad Nauseum to draw half their deck and them hitting an IGG, another Ad Nauseum, maybe two or three other cards and saying 'go' because they were too low for AN to go nuts. Not to mention they don't really run board control, so heavy early disruption followed by Tombstalker can get there.

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Originally Posted by mujadaddy

My question would be, have you ever cast two in the same game? I've been thinking about it, and I'm pretty sure I've never done that.

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But I most certainly have. *shrugs* Luck of the draw maybe.

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Originally Posted by mujadaddy

Also, if your GY is completely full of cards, no, TS & NS don't dis-synergize... it's when NS is in the yard, and you've got exactly enough cards + mana to cast TS that they are a dis-synergy.

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To be clear, even in this case, they're still not antisynergistic. In this case, Nether Spirit is just like any other card that Tombstalker can delve. So as opposed to positive synergy (most of the time), you get no synergy (a little of the time), not anti-synergy (a vast minority). The only time anti-synergy happens is if the Spirit and Tombstalker are both in the graveyard, and in this case, you'll be quite glad you're running four of the demon.

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Originally Posted by mujadaddy

...I ran into a B/W/G Madness deck on MWS the other day, that completely worked me over. I'm not even sure why, but he had too much powah for me. My draws were kinda crappy, but he still shouldn't have dominated me like he did. Oh well. I still like my deck.

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Must have been a real fluke occurance. Madness usually doesn't run enough real critters to scare me, my double-edged sacrifice effects are still effective.

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Originally Posted by mujadaddy

Anyone have any suggestions for the AN-Tendrils combo matchup?

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Usually, your disruption package (Duress, Hymn, SPox, Pox, etc...) will handle it. Some days though, they just plain win.