If you play Oblivion Stone, you should at least think about switching to this. The one and only reason being Abrupt Decay.Quote:
Originally Posted by lordofthepit
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If you play Oblivion Stone, you should at least think about switching to this. The one and only reason being Abrupt Decay.Quote:
Originally Posted by lordofthepit
Yep, but u cant protect you pithing, titans etc... Its not bad, but its diferent ^^
Generally that is not what you expect from your sweeper. It's not why you should choose Oblivion Stone in the first place.Quote:
Originally Posted by Elfkid
Not get Decayed is awesome. Furthermore I rarely sweep once I already have an Eldrazi on the board. They are basically sweepers themselves.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hopo
Why do we chose o-stone? I don't have any because of the reason that I want my pithing needles to remain safe. I'm probably missing obvious reasons, so if someone wouldn't mind explaining. Thanks.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hopo
I wrote an article abou the puishing post list a friend and me play here in spain (starting with rocks list). Its spanish but google translate might help :D
http://winandin.es/blog/punishing-po...drigo-togores/
That's a great primer!Quote:
Originally Posted by Togores
Thank you for writing and sharing this! I just put the Punishing Fire variant together last night, and I'm really enjoying it, so having some additional insight into how to best play the deck will be very valuable to me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Togores
The Spanish -> English translated version is perfectly readable, plus you get gems like the Spanish, "Esto se resume a maná infinito, tocinos infinitos, destrucción infinita y turnos infinitos," being translated to, "This is summarized infinite mana, infinite bacon, endless destruction and infinite turns." I'll play any deck that promises infinite bacon, especially if the deck also gives me infinite turns in which to eat it! :laugh:
Viewed from a financial perspective, would there be a substitute for Candelabra of Tawnos?
Unfortunately I don't think there is, though I picked up a Magus of the Candelabra for well under a dollar, and I do get great joy out of sarcastically shouting, "IT DOES THE SAME THING," when people mock me for it, but I really only use it during testing as a Candelabra proxy. The list that I've been working from only uses one, not that it makes it much better. :-\Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobmans
For an event where I cared about having the right cards and couldn't borrow at least one Candelabra, I'm thinking I might substitute Exploration in its place, but I would also be open to other suggestions.
Does that question really need to pop up every other page? Basically all the alternatives aren't playable so you play without candles. It's still viable but you lose access to alternate lines and also a little explosiveness.
Bacon in spanish is tocinos that more or less means big pigs also I was meaning huge monsters :DQuote:
Originally Posted by fdiv_bug
Kassari's mono g version doesn't play Candelabra. There is a tabernacle in that list, though.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobmans
And with Death and Taxes (and beat down decks in general) in flux in popularity, I've been considering testing whether or not Tabernacle should go back into the sideboard for UG Post lists as well. Right now I'm playing around with Snow-Post again though.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hencules
By the way, the most Budget friendly Cloudpost deck that I am aware of is probably MUD-Post, which can be found in the MUD thread. I haven't done the math for building a Snow-Post yet, but an entire competitive MUD-Post deck should probably cost between $800-$1000, which is significantly cheaper than a fully equipped UG Turbo Eldrazi/12-Post or Punishing RUG-Post. While Candelabra of Tawnos can be skimped on, don't.
Glad to see that everyone is enjoying summer! Nothing huge to report but I've been performing well at weekly, IQs with this:
[MD]
4 Cloudpost
4 Glimmerpost
2 Vesuva
2 Snow-Covered Island
1 Snow-Covered Forest
4 Tropical Island
4 Misty Rainforest
1 Bajouka Bog
1 Karakas
1 Eye of Ugin
1 Glacial Chasm
4 Primeval Titan
1 Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Venser, Shaper Savant
4 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Brainstorm
4 Crop Rotation
3 Expedition Map
2 Candelabra of Townos
2 Pithing Needle
4 Repeal
2 Moment's Peace
3 Show and Tell
[SB]
4 Swan Song
1 Pithing Needle
2 Engineered Explosives
2 Krosan Grip
1 Blue Elemental Blast
4 Force of Will
1 Flusterstorm
I haven't had to change much. Over performers lately have been Basic Lands, Force of Will, Kozilek, Candelabra, and Moment's Peace.
The snow covers aim to force the opponent to respect dark depths, even though I won't play it or into the north lol. I've had a few people say they didn't shuffle away StP or Karakas after seeing the snow basic.
Also, status:
http://s1274.photobucket.com/user/Ti...baf90.jpg.html
Hey Guys!
I played my 1st tournament with this deck last week. 29 people showed up, thus we had 5 rounds to play. I finished 6th with a 3-1-1 record earning me 1 Flusterstorm + 1 DRS. :smile:
I played against the following MUs:
Round 1: Some Esper Rogue Deck feat. Spellstutters, DRS, Cliques, Mindcensor (how annoying is THIS card, please?!), Daze, Thoughtseize etc. but no FoW. I won 2:1 beating like 6 Mindcensor in 3 games. Man, that card is a real beating agaist us.
Round 2: TES, I manage to win both games. First game I start with Glimmerpost, my opponent goes for the Tendrils kill on turn 2 but misses that I am at 21 life (he storms for 10 only). So I fall down to one and S&T into Titan into Lifegain+Bojuka Bog seals the deal. G2 he goes for 16 Goblins on turn2 I have the S&T => Titan again and he can´t handle that. Pretty lucky. :wink:
Round 3: Omnishow UB (Black for Thoughtseize only) I loose in 3 Games. Honestly I feel, that this is a really tough MU for us. I only managed to win G2 because I had Krosan Grip in response to his Enter the Infinite. He show and telled Omniscience, me Primeval Titan. Since he couldn´t do anything more on his turn without Omni in play; i was able to get infinite Emrakuls thanks to Primeval Titan on my turn. G3 he has more Countermagic than I do so 1-2.
Round 4: Nic Fit! THAT was fun!! :cool: 2-0
Round 5: Jund 1-1-1 G1 was really long and grindy with me stabilizing at low life thanks to Chasm. G2 I loose to quick beatings backed up by several discard and Wastelands. Sadly I lack one turn to finish him in G3 because I only manage to get Emrakul into play on my last extra turn...
In conclusion, I have to say the deck is so much fun to play, since you have access to so many broken plays. My list was the same that Jeremiah Top8ed Somerset with.
I also did lots of testing against Team America in the last couple of days and have to admit, I am loosing pretty hard to that deck. I don´t know if or what I am doing wrong but the combination of Hymn, Wasteland, Daze/Pierce/FoW + quick beats is a really tough combination to get through.
What are your experiences regarding that MU?
My current list:
[Maindeck]
4 Glimmerpost
4 Cloudpost
2 Vesuva
2 Island
2 Forest
3 Tropical Island
4 Misty Rainforest
1 Karakas
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Glacial Chasm
1 Eye of Ugin
1 Emrakul
1 Kozilek
1 Ulamog
4 Primeval Titan
3 Show and Tell
4 Brainstorm
4 Repeal
3 Crop Rotation
3 Moment´s Peace
2 Candelabra of Tawnos
2 Expedititon Map
3 Pithing Needle
4 Sensei´s Divining Top
[SB]
4 Swan Song
3 Flusterstorm
4 Phyrexian Revoker
4 Obstinate Baloth / FoW
Also, Tim: nice deck!! :smile:
I´ll try to post a pic of mine as well next days! :wink:
There you go! :smile:
http://s1276.photobucket.com/user/ve...tml?sort=3&o=0
Quote:
Originally Posted by venice
It is the worst matchup out of fair decks. The combination of Goyf, Wasteland, Daze and Hymn is very difficult to beat. I think your best shot is a quick S&T into Primeval w/ a Dryad Arbor or Khalni Garden fetch.
EDIT: If opponent does not put pressure on, you obviously can win by bobbing and weaving w/ Brainstorm, SDT, Crop rotation, etc.
Yes, this is exactly my impression as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by sauce
I just did some testing with Togores Punishing Post list and so far it feels definitely stronger against BUG as the straight UG list.
Yeah, that the plan to beat them. punishing fire is really good and with him you only have to care about tarmos. Thats the reason I wuld love to include 2 explosives. But there is no card I wanna cut >.<
well, the moment's peace are pseudo explosives and are decent vs bug. I say decent, not great because DRS does often eat the 2nd half or Hymn eats the 1st half.
This is true. Also, decks that play hymn and wasteland are going to get free wins here and there. But if you Really test this matchup (and recognize that it doesn't play like any other daze deck) you can get comfortable with it. If it's well represented in your meta, instead of bringing on a whole additional color for PFire (though it's effective), you can put in a few on color cards which are great against bug, mainly GSZ, explosives, and Oracle of Mul-Daya(someone earlier in the thread dropped SnT for these). SnT has a very narrow window against BUG, and Candle is Narrow because it turns on decay. As such I side out up to all of them for EE and Some copies of flusterstorm. Flusterstorm might seem counter intuitive, but I've realized that stopping that t2 hymn or forcing a crop through in this MU decides the game. A lot of my friends play bug and this has even working without warping my deck. I'd consider mulling to SDT in this MU, it is that important.Quote:
Originally Posted by sauce
Starting with your list I did -1 Crop Rotation, -1 Expedition Map, +2 Moment´s Peace. I prefer Moment´s Peace over EE since it stops any variety of creatures.Quote:
Originally Posted by Togores
Btw, I think I bought 4 foil Obstinate Baloth from you. :wink:
I like explosives more cause it gets rid of more cards like empty, counterbalance and so.
And yes, really possibe you did, I sold 4 last week, cause I upgraded mine of my modern decks to foil japanese :3
thanks
What do you guys think about Eureka as the SnT replacement in the mono green version?
Mana cost: 2GG
Types: Sorcery
Card Text: Starting with you, each player may put a permanent card from his or her hand onto the battlefield. Repeat this process until no one puts a card onto the battlefield.
more expensive, more color restrictive and has no upside. if you put in a titan, there is rarely going to be a way you lose from that spot (barring decks that run emrakul/griselbrand/etc and you shouldnt be casting s&t vs them unless you got the soul read). eureka also has the downside of letting your opponents put in planeswalkers for free.
what do you guys sideboard in/out vs miracles? mainly curious if many of you keep S&T in as a "must counter" spell or sb it out.
do you board out all crop rotations or keep 1 in?
i noticed that games where you have no cloudpost (or way to get cloudpost) are usually losses.
Lately, Karn Liberated. Glen Elendra Archmage as well. And keep SnT in as a magnet+surprise Titan.Quote:
Originally Posted by sauce
The no Cloudpost makes winning more difficult thing is because generally control decks have a difficult time dealing with decks that produce massive mana to cast massive anti-control creatures (which all the Eldrazi are in one form or another). If we can't produce that mana, then our overwhelming edge as a control deck with massive mana means that we have to win through a slog-fest, which while possible, is more difficult.
I usually keep S&T in, unless i've seen something weird in g1, like a maindeck Rest in Peace that could mean Helm of obedience combo. I usually cut Bojuka Bog (i'm never going to use a crop rotation to instant-fetch for it to contrast a Snapcaster Mage), Moment's Peace and try to shave some cc1 mana cards, like the mentioned Crop rotation, just in case they have the annoying Counterbalance lock early in the game. I bring in Fows and sometimes big sweepers like All is Dust. Please note that i run a singleton Cavern of Souls, which usually let you win the game even if you do not see any Cloudpost but "fair" lands only.Quote:
Originally Posted by sauce
I have been cutting all the Crop rotations to hedge for not only CB lock but also not to get blown out by FoW. Obviously you can keep some hands that are devoid of action (only lands) and have a Crop rotation so you may not mind getting "blown out" by FoW if they have nothing going but it's a dangerous proposition.Quote:
Originally Posted by Davek
I also run Cavern, but you have to either draw it, have top in play and find it or draw Expedition map and have it resolve. Otherwise, maybe keeping 1-2 Crop rotations may not be completely wrong in sideboarded games?
The games I lose to miracles (post-board) are of this variety only:
- I keep a 3 lander w/ Brainstorm or Top which finds me no more lands while they beat me down w/ Clique and FoW (and/or) CBTOP everything
- I keep a no Cloudpost hand and do not draw a Cloudpost while they beat me down w/ CBTOP lock and Venser/Clique/FoW
- I get killed by an early entreat (2-3 angels) while I sideboarded out my Glacial Chasm & Moment's Peace.
I've talked to a buddy who keeps Glacial chasm and Bog vs them as well as Crop rotation because he does not like sideboarding out lands. I take out Bog and Glacial chasm 100% of the time vs Miracles.
I've tried keeping in Moment's peace but it's bad and does not do enough as they can often times counter it w/ CB or Venser.
The biggest problem in that matchup is Venser (w/ Karakas) followed by Clique. Venser is by far the biggest offender and the scariest card. If they got Venser + Karakas going, you are not going to win unless they make a mistake.
I honestly never board out all crops neither Glacial Chasm, because their main way to win is as you said casting an early Entreat, and i like having some instant outs (i also run Engineered Explosives that can come in handy in these cases). Glacial Chasm is way harder to deal for them than Moment's Peace, because they usually have no ways/very few ways to get rid of it, so it gets the nod for me. Also, you can never know if they are on the Blood Moon/Back to Basics post-board plan, so crops stay here to tutor your basic lands and Vesuva to copy them.
They will probably throw in Pithing Needles too, but you can be sure they will never call Top with them unless totally desperate, so if you are short in choosing what to cut i would consider removing a map, because you usually have plenty of time to find the lands you need and is a cc1 card that falls prey to Counterbalance lock.
I side the following vs Miracles:
-1 Bojuka Bog
-4 Moment´s Peace (yes, I play 4 MB right now :wink:)
-3 Crop Rotation
+4 Swan Song
+4 FoW
Alongside 2 Venser maindeck, having 8 hardcounters for early Entreats postboard has been serving me well so far. I like keeping the Glacial Chasm as well for the reasons Davek mentioned.
Miracles is no bye. Especially if you run into someone who can actually pilot control in legacy. By design, my sideboard hate is equally viable against Miracles as it is against combo:
4 Swan Song
1 Pithing Needle
2 Engineered Explosives
2 Krosan Grip
1 Blue Elemental Blast
4 Force of Will
1 Flusterstorm
Against Teir 1 Miracles (Entreat/Terminus/Flash Creatures):
-4 Crop Rotation, -2 Moment's Peace, -2 Candelabra
+2 Engineered Explosives, +2 Krosan Grip, +4 Force of Will
Teir 2 Gimmick Miracles (Helm, RIP, Enlightened Tutor, Blood Moon, Humility):
-4 Crop Rotation, -2 Moment's Peace, -2 Candelabra, 1 Glacial Chasm, -3 Show and Tell, -1 Bog
+2 Engineered Explosives, +2 Krosan Grip, +4 Force of Will, +4 Swan Song, +1 Pithing Needle
You can usually sniff out which angle they are pushing since game 1 lasts at least a few turns. I don't like siding out mana against long game control, and they usually cannot answer chasm, so lands stay. I like to cut 1 Cmcs, obviously crop. You don't really need candle speed, and 1 CMC is a liability. If they are really looking for Jace I might put a Needle in. SnT to get a Map into play has happened more than once, ha.
Against the Teir 2, SnT is a liability, and avoiding their 'combo' kill and sideboard hate gives swan song the nod. Needle for helm. Their plan is a little more front loaded so bog can be cut.
On this plan, miracles feels well contained by a mixture of these two ends of the spectrum.
I have a question regarding the use of Force of Will in the sideboard. Whenever I played it I found that I didn't have blue cards to exile to Force of Will as early as I should have against decks like Combo and such (TES is pretty popular in my meta). Should I be keeping Show and Tell in the mainboard to maximize the number of blue cards in the deck or should I even be using them at all? For reference this is my sideboard, total number of blue cards that could theoretically be pitched to Force of Will is 16 and I am considering replacing Flusterstorm with them.
4 Phyrexian Revoker
4 Flusterstorm
4 Swan Song
2 Krosan grip
1 Show and Tell
I don't mind SnT too much against TES, but in cases where you want SnT out and FOW in (sneak, reanimator), 16 is too low (my personal MD min is 19). As such, I have 3 more blue cards that round it out: Flusterstorm, BEB, and Venser. MbT can also fill that early interaction need, and casting it for 4 isn't even bad, doesn't need blue count..Quote:
Originally Posted by 203995014
Any suggestions for a MonoG list that is especially tuned against Miracles? Since I'm aiming to use it against Miracle players in the Modo 2-man queue, I could pretty much disregard other match-ups.
Note that I want to keep it Monogreen for budget reasons, at least for now.
You're already a huge favorite in the MU. If you wanted to get crazy go multiple cavern of souls, full set of grip in SB. Maybe o-stone, and maybe some low cost way to deal with early angels. But moments peace and chasm should be enough. I think you've already achieved your goal with the deck choice. But caution, mono green is pretty soft to a real legacy format.Quote:
Originally Posted by Barook
I took the following to a weekly Legacy event and went 3-1. My only loss was due to personal stupidity.
7 Creatures
4 Prime Time
1 Emrakul
1 Kozilek
1 Ulamog
13 Instants
3 Repeal
4 Brainstorm
4 Crop Rotation
2 Moment's Peace
5 Sorcerys
3 Show and Tell
2 Green Sun Zenith
10 Artifacts
4 Top
4 Needle
2 Maps
25 Land
4 UG Fetch
1 Island
1 Forest
1 Arbor
8 Post
2 Vesua
1 Chasm
1 Eye
1 Karkas
1 Bog
Plus 4 others I can't recall
Overall I like how the deck performed, however I constantly felt like I was struggling to find threats hence why I included the GSZ. Even with them though I wasn't overly satisfied. I am contemplating truning Punishing Post as a way to increase the threat density of the deck. Any thoughts?
How are you playing this deck? There should be no reason you are having trouble finding a threat between brainstorms, tops, crop rotations, eye of ugin, maps, etc.
What hands are you keeping?
This is a first, rough draw:Quote:
Originally Posted by TimHarding
3 Snow-Covered Forest
1 Thespian's Stage
1 Dark Depths
1 Wooded Foothills
4 Vesuva
1 Cavern of Souls
2 Windswept Heath
4 Cloudpost
4 Glimmerpost
1 Karakas
1 Eye of Ugin
1 Dark Depths
1 Glacial Chasm
2 Dryad Arbor
1 Oracle of Mul Daya
4 Primeval Titan
1 Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
1 Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4 Expedition Map
4 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Oblivion Stone
4 Crop Rotation
3 Moment's Peace
2 Into the North
4 Green Sun's Zenith
1 All Is Dust
3 Pithing Needle
Any input how to tune this list better to maximize the Miracles match-up?
- How good is Needle in this match-up? It can block SDT (which would also disable our SDT) and Jace. Should they be Krosan Grips instead? Mind you, this is an Anti-Miracle-only build.
- All is Dust and Oblivion Ring are quite pricey ticket-wise. How good is each one in the Miracle match-up?
- How many Moment's Peace should I run in the mainboard against Miracles? I guess Glacial Chasm should be kept as well to deal with early Angels.
- Is Oracle worth it in this match-up or should I remove it for something else?
Edit: I guess Boseiju, Who Shelters All isn't too shabby in the Miracles match-up, either.