Printable View
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan Alexander
Tough luck getting 9th place, your list continues to impress! I was railing FriendRudy's stream for most of the tournament, who lost in the top 8. I didnt want to play in the Challenge because i wanted to watch baseball (Nationals/Dodgers game), but then that game ended up getting rained out. Most savage beat i've taken in a while. :P
Spiked another 5-0 in a League about an hour ago with this very traditional list: https://deckstats.net/decks/56084/451448-rug-delver
I decided to go back and try no Probes, adding another Pierce and a Dismember, in the main. I've only had time to do 3 Leagues in the last couple weeks and have gone 4-1, 3-2, and now 5-0 with this list, respectively, so suffice it to say its been running hot. While i liked the Probe list, maybe it doesnt really matter all that much what the 6 flex spots are, as long as you are running some kind of extra removal and countermagic.
I beat Sneak and Show, Merfolk, Grixis Delver, Elves, and Mono Blue Omnitell in the last League, which are all pretty decent matchups for RUG. Although, the Sneak and Omnitell matches can be dicey. I feel like i always need a quick threat and double Force backup to even have a chance. Twice, the Omnitell guy fought through the counters and resolved a Show and Tell for Omniscience, but didnt have Emrakul or Wish to finish me off.
I really like this configuration vs Grixis Delver, as long as you can keep DRS off the table. A hand of double Wasteland and Stifle looks terrible when they suddenly plop down a turn 1 DRS if you cant answer it. Luckily, i was able to. Dismember did come in clutch to kill an Angler, which is what it is there to do, so maybe i need to change my opinion on the card. Previously, i never really liked it because 4 damage is pretty huge in the Delver mirror. However, i guess its rare for the matchup to come down to a race, usually one person or the other has solid control of the game.
Elves feels very easy with this 75. Post board, i have 9 pieces of removal, with 2 of those being a one sided Wrath. This match feels great to be able to fire off kill spells and countermagic knowing they will have zero response to anything you do. I like running 2 Roughs in the side almost exclusively for jank tribal decks like this. Elves, Merfolk (below), Goblines, Slivers, and even D&T feel extremely manageable when you have 2 sweepers and are frequently huge blowouts. I basically dont ever want to lose to these decks.
I didnt even think Merfolk, as a deck, still existed in Legacy, it had been so long since i've seen it. He was able to Chalice me and resolve a True Name in game 1, but games 2 and 3 i jumped all over him when he stumbled on mana a bit. Wasteland is still a thing when they keep a hand of one Island, Mutavaults, and Caverns.
I was getting discouraged with this deck recently and even jammed some matches in the 2 man queue online with Grixis and 4 Color Delver lists to see if i wanted to finally make the full switch out of RUG. While those decks are obviously powerful and put up consistent results, i dont like the midrangey playstyle all that much and i find myself back on RUG. Its so odd to me how clunky Grixis can play out, yet still win. When running at its best, RUG feels so fluid, like your inside the best part of a song, your cards are the notes and you are the maestro, doing crazy powerful things with 0 and 1 CMC spells. The deck is simply genius and i dont think there is anything else like it in Legacy.
Recently bought into legacy and decided to make RUG Delver. Really enjoy it so far. I essentially copied LewisCBR's, so thanks man, much appreciated. I've done 2 leagues with it. Finishing 3-2 and 4-1. I lost to Dredge (Bridge from Below), SnT, and Shardless Sultai. Any RUG Delver vets have pointers on these match-ups?
Thanks!
Mini tournament report - GP Kuala Lumpur Sunday Side Event
My intention was to try Jonathan Alexander’s exact list, but the vendors didn’t have any Submerge available. My friend who played in a legacy event on the Friday said that Reanimator was very popular so I added an additional Surgical Extraction instead.
Maindeck
54 RUG Delver Core
-2 Tarmogoyf
-1 Tropical Island (Budget Constraints)
1 Breeding Pool (I considered making this a Botanical Sanctum but I think not casting Daze is worse than the life loss, it turned out to be the correct decision at least for this event)
1 Counterspell
3 Spell Snare
1 Winter Orb
2 Dismember
1 Spell Pierce
Side
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Ancient Grudge
3 Pyroblast
2 Winter Orb
1 Seal of Fire
1 Spell Pierce
2 True-Name Nemesis
1 Submerge
1 Tarmogoyf
I considered playing Scavenging Ooze over the SB Tarmogoyf but decided not to after my friend pointed out that playing Seal of Fire for only 2 Tarmogoyf in the 75 looks pretty awful.
Matches
4-Colour Deathrite/Delver/Strix/Copter 2-1
Reanimator 1-2
Mono-R Stompy/Sneak Attack 2-0
Elves 2-1
Eldrazi ID (Played for fun, I win the match if I don’t punt but I do so I lose)
Notes on card choices
2 Tarmogoyf, 3 Snare, 1 Spell Pierce,1 Counterspell, 2 Dismember seems like a great configuration to me at this point in time. I have only moved to Dismember relatively recently but I think you need at least 6 maindeck spells that act as removal, and as long as Angler and Eldrazi are a thing then the ability to -5 is so much more important than the 3 face damage from a Chain Lightning or whatever.
Main deck winter orb I am not sure about. It did win me game 1 against the Eldrazi player by keeping him off of Reality Smasher for 1 critical turn but in the postboard game where I drew it he had Eye and 2-mana lands so it didn’t do anything. I also boarded it out in every other match.
It might just be the case that in some metagames (MODO Included?) the amount of Miracles is high enough that you can justify playing 1 Orb main and 2 side. Miracles is so uncommon in my IRL tournaments, and in the other matchups where you are ‘supposed’ to bring Orb in it seems so underwhelming (DNT, Eldrazi, not sure about lands). I think the maindeck Orb could be a different card (I want to say Probe but not sure about the life loss with 2 Dismembers) and one or both of the ones in the board could easily be a Pithing Needle or Null Rod or Sulfuric Vortex depending on whether you think you need more coverage against Lands, Miracles, DNT, Sneak Attack, etc.
I have had the same idea about using Seal of Fire myself in the past but hadn’t actually tried it in an event before (Had to buy a foil Dissension one from the vendor lol). As a removal spell it was perfectly acceptable (ie. the fact that I could not cast it as an instant and it only deals 2 never was a drawback, but the fact that it could pump Goyf by being an enchantment never came up either). It almost decided the outcome of one game by being an enchantment on top of my library and not flipping Delver, so in this event it performed worse than Tarfire would have, but I am still convinced by the argument of Seal not being able to be eaten by DRS in the Angler matches. This is also a general reminder that Delver of Secrets does not flip for free all the time and having a card in your 75 be an instant or sorcery is a legitimate, if perhaps marginal benefit.
For posterity (I know this isn’t a real point of discussion at the moment but someone might bring it up again in the future or browse the thread wondering) I didn’t lose any games or have to play any weird lines because of my Breeding Pool but this has happened several times in the past. My round 1 opponent seemed to seriously respect my ‘decision’ to play around all my green sources being extracted but this is just a big meme, if you have 3 Tropicals you should play them.
I’m not too sure about the plan of boarding all your Delvers out against Grixis, but to me the idea seems reasonable. If you bring in 1 Goyf and 2 TNN then your threat density is roughly the same and you have the plan of your Goyf/TNN trumping everything they have while you are blanking 4 cards in their deck that they won’t board out. I agree that RUG is generally the ‘aggro’ deck but if there is a particular SB configuration that might enable the deck to successfully take the control role in a particular matchup I think it shouldn’t be dismissed by the ‘role argument’ alone.
I planned to attend GP Chiba but I missed the registration window. Good luck to all who will be attending.
Please reply if you have any questions or comments :)
Hey Lewis.. Great to see you keeping the RUG spirit alive👍. I really like your 75 card configration. Can i ask you how your sideboarding is against:Quote:
Originally Posted by LewisCBR
Grixis delver
Miracles
Elves
Eldrazi
Storm
I dont know if any of these are right, as i'm a big fan of shaving as opposed to out right taking out all of one spell a lot of the time, but this is how i do it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesperaj
Grixis delver - I like to take the role of aggressor here. Its impossible to answer everything, so you need to answer just enough to get there. Taking out Delvers seems insane to me, i dont know how you can plan to kill every DRS and opposing Delver with your limited removal. I feel like the best defense to Delver, sometimes, is to play your own Delver.
+2 Rough
+2 Pyroblast
+1 Seal of Fire
+1 True Name
+1 Flusterstorm
-3 Force (i like leaving one in as a safety net for when you need to counter that Angler, for example)
-2 Spell Snare (not enough good targets, Rough is supposed to help handle Pyromancer
-1 Daze (because youre bringing in better counter spells)
-1 Goose (feels like the weakest creature here and you are bringing in a TNN)
Miracles - I feel 50/50 against this deck lately, but i've had Miracles players tell me that they feel unfavored vs RUG.
+1 Flusterstorm
+1 Krosam Grip
+1 Null Rod
+1 Pithing Needle (this feels redundant and its annoying when you draw both this and Null Rod to stop Top, but thats what Brainstorm is for)
+2 Pyroblast
+1 Sulfuric Vortex (probably your best card)
+1 Sylvan Library (another nombo, like with Rod/Needle, you only want Library or Vortex, the two dont play nice together unless you find a Vortex off Library fast)
+1 True Name
-3 Wasteland (yep)
-1 Dismember
-1 Tarfire
-1 Bolt
-2 Daze (weakest counter spell here)
-1 Tarmgoyf (your weakest creature here, he dies to everything)
Elves - This is basically a combo deck, so i keep in Forces. They cant do too much with a bunch of elves, but when they get Glimpse going into Natural Order, you better watch out. I try to kill everything and poke away with our threats.
+1 Seal of Fire
+2 Rough
+1 Sylvan Library
-1 Spell Pierce
-1 Spell Snare (not too many targets, but its great to hit a Visionary or Zenith for 1, otherwise, pitch to Force)
-1 Daze
-1 Dismember
Eldrazi - Your best bet is to get two Delvers going fast, or a few big Goyfs out, while countering as much as you can. Using Wastelands to hit Cavern. This is one of those matchups where you dont have enough to bring in for all you want to bring out since Pierces and Stifles are pretty bad. Some people like Rough against Eldrazi, but i havent had it work out very well.
+1 Ancient Grudge
+1 Krosan Grip
+1 True Name
+1 Seal of Fire (for Goyf)
-3 Stifle
-1 Spell Pierce
Storm - just like we are the best Delver variant vs Miracles, i think we are the weakest Delver variant vs Storm. They can win through counter spells pretty easily and we dont have hand disruption, so this matchup is always tough. Choosing when to counter cantrips can be crucial.
+1 Flusterstorm
+1 Null Rod
+2 Pyroblast (be very liberal and hit an early cantrip whenever you are able)
+2 Surgical
+1 Library
-1 Dismeber
-1 Tarfire
-2 Bolt
-2 Goose (he is your worst threat, for sure)
-1 Wasteland
This is my current deck:
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/02-08-16-rug-delver/
What should I cut for Grip of Phyresis?
To those of you who have toyed around with my list: I'm working on a matchup guide for Canadian vs. Miracles, do you have screenshots of any interesting scenarios I should cover? I'm looking mostly for cantrip decisions and countermagic sequencing here.
Hey guys, Canadian Player since 2013 here.. need some help regarding the DnT matchup.. it has always been my nemesi but now with also the new Thalia and the recruiter it seems even worse to me... I am pretty sure I am approaching the match in the wrong way so pretty open to any suggestion.
Usually playing a quite standard list, with the 6 slot currently: 2 Dismember, 2 pierce and 2 snare.
I change the side quite often based on what I expect in my local meta but I do usually have at least a mass removal (rough // tumble, sometimes x 2 or 1 plus another burn spell), couple of graveyard hate, classic 3/4 slot for combo, 1 null rod, 1 sulfuric vortex, 1/2 winter orb, 1 nemesis and 1 Sulfur elemental
How do you generally play against it? I mean, delver used to be the best here (ok TNN too) but now they can ever recruiter for the flickerwisp and we still only have 4 stifle! Really open to any advice!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Ceck out Jonathan Alexander's list and sideboard section on his blog the weekly wars. With how many stupid 3 drops they have I think it's really good.Quote:
Originally Posted by comix84
The most common one I have come up is turn 2 orb + daze/force or turn 2 pass holding up pierce/pyro/snare/counterspell then turn 3 orb after hitting a counterbalance or something. This is also subject to change if they have top out orb is probably worth it. Part of this is because in my experience the ONLY ways you can actually lose postboard on this plan are mentor. This means the amount of counterspells you have that hit him (force/daze/counterspell) are of limited supply and you should try to manage them as best as you can in terms of what they can counter.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan Alexander
Canadian Threshold vs. Miracles Matchup Guide
Should be self-explanatory. Focusing on the #winnerorb list.
Definitely holding up counters there unless opponent has mana tapped. I agree on the Mentor thing, it's the only card you really lose to because everything else just never resolves.Quote:
Originally Posted by Contract Killer
Iam toying around with your list for a few weeks. Played a Few Leagues (5:0, 4:1 loss vs TA, 4:1 loss vs Lands) with the list and adjusted it a little bit because of the rise of DnT (27:3 in the last 2 weeks online; lost to TA, Lands and MUD.)
Your discribed way of fighting Miracles is very effective and I tend to play it the same way. I feel the Match-up is very positive and I enjoy to play it.
Since the rise of popolarity of DnT I changed a few slots:
MD:
-1 Dismember
-1 Orb
+Fire/ice
+Forked Bolt
SB:
-1 Ancient Grudge
+ EE
- Submerge
+ Rough
Iam not even sure if these changes are correct, but i don`t like the Orb in the most popolar Match-ups right now (Grixis, Elves, Eldrazi, infect) while it is bomb vs Miracles (which is always dtb).
I like the idea to shave the Grave hate and bring in a Sulfur Elemantal, so i`ll give it a try.
Best Regards
Homason
Well, I can't say I agree with your changes ;-)
I wouldn't cut the maindeck Orb, no matter how bad it sometimes is. It just randomly wins a lot of games; sometimes even in Delver mirrors. Dismember is too important against Grixis, Eldrazi and Shardless.
Do you care to explain why you want to replace Grudge with Explosives? I don't see why you would want to do that, but I'm definitely not ruling out the possibility that I'm missing something, given that I have barely played with Explosives in this deck.
I think the Submerge slots are at least debatable depending on the metagame you're expecting to face. Same is true for Rough // Tumble, it can certainly be a valid inclusion.
@Jona
Are you planning to do another Canadian VS X article? Appreciate the articles.
Cheers
Hey again,Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan Alexander
I replaced 1 Ancient Grudge with an Explosives, because I ended up having a useless card in hand very often. The benefits of Explosives are:
- deals with chalice, the same way
- also kills other Permanents (Endless one, MotR,...)
- It is one more way to grow our Goyfs vs Grixis and Eldrazi
- It is some kind of sweeper
I feel the same way. I currently run 1 Submerge and 1 Rough because of more DnT and less Bug Decks.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan Alexander
As you mentioned, Orb is a very powerful tool in many different Match-ups. What do you think about 3 Orbs in the Sb and 7 Removal Main configuration?
I get your point to the second Dismember. Fire//Ice was a try, which was obvious very helpful against DnT. And it is not of table yet, because I lost some Delver-Mirrors because I couldnt cast my removal :-(
Thanks for your feedback! I might do something similar again, but most matchups are way more complex than Canadian vs. Miracles. If I feel I have enough info to do something like this again, I will.Quote:
Originally Posted by cheerios
Not really convinced, but I'm gonna give it a try anyway. Might take a while though, I barely get to play Canadian.Quote:
Originally Posted by Homason
I strongly dislike 7 removal the same way I dislike 11+ creatures. You just end up wth useless cards too often in combo and control (Miracles) matchups.Quote:
Originally Posted by Homason
Originally, I had Slyvan Library on that slot because it is an extra threat that doesn't give you diminishing returns from drawing too many creatures and it helps you find extra removal in creature matchups. It was Snapcaster Mage for a bit in late 2012 when everyone was on some form of Deathrite Shaman deck.
Just noticed this puppy played to the top 4 of a French tournament:
http://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=14290&d=285279&f=LE
No stifles with a heavy removal package split between dismember and forked bolt. A whole two copies of counterspell and a big tweak in the threatbase. He plays a green sun's zenith package of two zeniths, a goyf and a scavenging ooze in addition to his 4 delvers and 4 mongeese. Having access to 6 copies of mongoose seems at odds with having no stifles to disrupt main, although the added removal spells likely helps. It seems like he also has a similar philosophy to JonLX where goyf is clearly the worst creature.
His sideboard is all one-ofs, including a copy of ceremonious rejection, (which seems reasonable) a copy of roast (which seems like hot garbage) and a copy of vapor snag (which seems suboptimal).
Thoughts on this spicy meatball?
First of all- I tried all these cards and they can all be fine in a specific meta.
Roast- I tried it and its fine against Eldrazi but beeing a sorcery is a huge drawback. It means you will take five from the smasher before you can kill it. Sadly a third dismember is too much lifeloss but if you want to improve your Eldrazi matchup the first step would be to increase the goyf count.
Green suns zenith - Also something I tried but not really liked it. It improves miracle (more goose, harder to hit with balance) and Eldrazi (more goyfs) for sure but in every other matchup its horrible to tap 3 mana at sorcery speed to get a goyf that can be spell pierced.
Ooze - Although a little bit slow its really good in some matchups as it can easily grow bigger than goyf or reality smasher. If you play zenith you should play one somewhere in your 75.
Counterspell - A powerful tool no doubts here but holding up 2 mana while casting zenith seems rough also more than one copy seems clunky especially against decks like elves or taxes.
What I not tried
Vapor snag - A temporary removal most of the time (except angler, tokens or reanimated stuff) can help you to bring in the Last points of damage but it requires a Board presence and as your creatures are mainly 3/x its like Bolt+1 damage.
Ceremonious rejection- Only usefull against Eldrazi and MUD which both play cavern. Seems pretty narrow to me. Again more goyfs would help here.
Kind regards,
M
Dismember means you take four from a Smasher before you kill it. Not really a world of difference. I think Sorcery speed vs. Thought-Knot is a better argument. That being said, I'm toying around with Roast in UR right now and it's alright. Probably still worse than the second Dismember in Canadian though. Also agree on the Goyf thing, that's a better way to address Eldrazi.Quote:
Originally Posted by MTB
Thats also true and I dont think 2 mana sorcery speed removal helps the game plan as you most probably tapp out or at least tapp low for it.
Regarding UR harvest pyre could be a possibility sadly its so bad with goose.
Harvest Pyre might actually work. I played Set Adrift before and Delve vs. Threshold was never an issue.
I read this entire thread, and thank everyone who contributed. This my first post on this site. I am a huge fan of Legacy and particularly this deck. This my current deck list:
Main (60)
Creatures (12)
4x delver
4x nimble mongoose
4x tarmogoyf
Spells (30)
4x brainstorm
4x ponder
4x force of will
4x daze
4x stifle
4x spell pierce
4x lightning bolt
2x fire-ice
Land (18)
3x volcanic island
3x tropical island
4x wasteland
2x scalding tarn
2x polluted delta
2x misty rainforest
2x flooded strand
Sideboard (15)
2x submerge
2x pyroblast
2x grafdiggers cage
2x rough/tumble
2x spell snare
1x flusterstorm
1x surgical extraction
1x engineered explosives
1x ancient grudge
1x sylvan library
I have limited exposure to Legacy games, as my LGS does not have a big legacy base, I mainly play against reanimator, BUG Delver and occasional DnT. (If you guys know a good place to play near NYC/staten island/NJ let me know :tongue:)
Up until recently, I was playing 3 ponders and maindecking a sylvan library, my the life loss was too much against aggro decks.
My main question is do you think dropping to 10 creatures to add extra removals, counterspells, or possibly git probes is a good idea? I see a lot of lists that run 2x Goyfs but seeing as creatures are out main win condition, im worried 10 may be a little light.
Thank you in advance for your time.
For starters I would not run 4 pierce without any dismembers. You need to have some outs to resolved tarmogoyfs/ zombie fishes the prior of which snare can hit along with a slew of other high priority targets. Snare also has longer staying power which is important when some match ups grind and you need a hard counter.Quote:
Originally Posted by bl4ckwell
Never deviate from the 8 main cantrips. They're the bread and butter of your deck. Sylvan library isn't necessarily bad just slow and doesn't impact the board immediately which isn't good enough anymore. It kind of acts as another threat by being able to find more, but it still doesn't block or attack the turn after it enters.
I think git probe is fine as training wheels. I don't mean that to sound demeaning by any means. My point is it gives you invaluable information on how to play certain hands or what to look for. Even experienced players would win some more percentages if they had perfect info at the drop of a hat. It also allows you to see what's coming and get an idea of what to think critically about. Ie: oh miracles has counterbalance + force back up which means I can ponder into a threat but not play it this turn because I need daze + stifle live to beat their counterbalance.
Cutting threats for added counters/removal is somewhat dangerous. What happens is you upset a delicate balance of interactive cards. Some are good vs combo while others are dead and vice versa with other decks. Rules of thumb I would consider when deviating from the stock main 54:
Don't go over 6 main removal unless you know at your weekly (or whatever tournament) you will face lots of dnt/delver
If you want you to cut main threats have some Goyfs, tnns, grim or whatever in the board to make up in the match ups you want them (delver mirrors mainly).
If you go down to 10 threats be sure to evaluate bolt even more as a reach spell than removal and to conserve it. This goes along with your evaluating it alongside adismember you may have in hand. Things like daze jitte vs eldrazi to make them tap tomb can make your bolt cut an extra turn it two off your clock.
What do you guys think about the deck that made top 32 at GP Louisville? I'm wondering if taking out two goyfs for TNN is actually good or if it was done for budget reasons.
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/542344#paper
it's a variant of RUG delver designed to be favored vs miracles. see https://theweeklywars.wordpress.com/...eshold-primer/Quote:
Originally Posted by Dio
it's very strong and cleverly designed. i suggest you playtest it :)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Contract Killer
I am going to stick with my 12 threats, I agree. I was switching back and forth between 2 extra spell pierce vs git probes. I think I will run 2 git probes.
I piloted close to the same list at that event. He's a friend of mine and created the list(MD grim, tnn, etc). It's really good. Grim and tnn were all stars winning me a set vs eldrazi and grixis. Getting paired against 4c loam (r3) and losing the die roll got me though since I had to daze a chalice otd and got wasted out. Then round 5 I got paired against big red again last the die roll and got combo-ed out.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dio
Tough beats, you like the list, though? I suppose its match-up dependent?
I'm trying out 2 TNNs in Grixis and like it a lot, TNN is very well positioned right now, i feel like i win 90% of the games he sticks. In RUG, though, was the mana issue ever awkward?
What do you guys think of this 5-0 MTGO league list from Ordal?
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/545296#online
Can Thought Scour actually support 4x Goose and 4x Hooting in the same list? Very interesting...
Yes i think 😃, that was an experiment anti-decay-fatal push deck. First list i builded make 5-0....there is a lot of work but agree with you..... is interestingQuote:
Originally Posted by koten
The list was great. Mine had a snare over third pierce and a second submerge over needle in the board. Honestly with orb needle just didn't seem necessary, but knowing Leovold would be big I thought the second submerge would be good. My match ups wereQuote:
Originally Posted by LewisCBR
R1,2 byes
R3 aggro loam lose
R4 grixis delver win
R5 big red (blast canon whatever you want to call it) lose
R6 eldrazi win
R7 ur delver win
R8 ur delver lose
R9 dnt lose
http://decks.deckedbuilder.com/d/266569
I don't think I could have done anything different in my losses vs aggro loam and big red. People will probably call me out on this and rightfully so. Just losing the die roll in either of those is back breaking. On top of that both games having to daze otd (T2 chalice, T2 trinisphere daze+pierce ssg for daze).
The chalice I could have force pitched tnn then played goyf the next turn. I thought about it but felt like getting tnn out and hoping to dodge waste was more relevant. Neither is a good line, but goyf gets dealt with too easily (decay, maze, kotr, Liliana etc). Either way I'm dead to loam lock I just have better odds if he doesn't have it with tnn than I do with goyf I think.
The big red match up is just bad otd. You can pick up game 2 easy, but being otd is so difficult. They can play around daze easily enough and go under everything except force.
Honestly I think ur delver is the hardest delver match up because you need pyroblast to deal with their storm chaser. Swiftspear easily eats goose and can eat goyf. They're a lot faster than us and I think that makes it more difficult than other drawn out attrition based delver matchups.
The dnt match up was interesting. I lost the first game then the second one I may have made a play mistake. I dazed a thalia (hard cast) over end step dismember it. The reasoning behind this is simple: cavern of souls. I've been punished by that card more than once trying to make better use of mana the next turn then daze when I have a threat out. Anyways immediately after that I top decked winter orb which made me feel stupid. Then the following turn he played another thalia kind of trapping me under my orb.
Orb definitely did what it was supposed to in that game. Despite getting trapped under it the line is good. Playing it there stops sfm or at least buys you time and requires them to have 2x land + sfm. It also sets back any three drop plan by 2 turns again if they have lands. Just drawing it after playing daze seemed really bad. Maybe I should have evaluated daze differently there because of orb in the board. I still don't think you can win that if daze rots in hand after that turn because of cavern.
Notes about some choice cards:
Grim lavamancer won me so many games. He was great vs grixis, eldrazi and ur delver. Never drew him against dnt unfortunately. He's really good right now. It gives you repeatable removal in delver mirrors which is all you want and let's you go over eldrazi threats. Him, delver and tnn work well together to make the eldrazi match up positive I think by letting you go over rather than have goose/ goyf getting stuck.
Tnn is really good as well. Mana never really was a problem except for getting wasted out by 4c loam. Without a snare/ pierce that game the outcome is the same with a goyf. It won me my MD game vs eldrazi which was sweet. I had delver into double tnn to just alpha strike before he got me.
Winter orb was great as always. After a lot of testing Patrick came to the conclusion it's just not good main. I pretty much agree with that. It's too volatile of a card that can be dead in match ups where literally any other card might let you win md (storm, delver, dnt this match up changes post board though). That aside it ate a thought knot seer which let me keep my dismember so that was good I guess. Bought me a lot of time against dnt (still lost to a flicker which ironically I could have dazed if I had dismembered earlier and I never saw a cavern). Even in Chiba the card was straight gas every time I drew it.
The list is extremely good. Special thanks to Patrick Tierney for making such a good list. I think right now I'm just upset with it because at least 2 of my sets felt die roll dependent more so than ever. Either way keep on keeping on with Canadian Threshold.
Cheers
So I got wrecked in the Legacy Challenge on Saturday (except that I didn't actually get wrecked). I played the same list as October, with Flusterstorm over Cage in the sideboard.
My matches:
2-0 Shardless
Just two games of playing patiently, wrecking my opponents mana and going to town with Mongoose.
2-0 Grixis Delver
My opponent mulled to five on the play G1, didn't have a land drop, forced my T1 Delver, I had Daze or Force, they conceeded. G2 I did Delver mirror things.
1-2 Team America
I lost G1 to something, won a G2 from very far behind, then lost a close G3.
1-2 Storm
I won G1 thanks to Orb, Stifle & Waste. G2 was somewhat interesting. My opponent took at least one mulligan, fetched Island T1, cast Ponder and shuffled. I put them on a slow hand due to that, so I went with T1 Delver over Ponder, having only Daze backup. My opponent then made 12 Goblins T2. G3 I had Daze, Force, Snare, my opponent killed me T3 with Therapy, Tutor, Past in Flames and a million mana.
1-2 Aluren
G1 I was very low on business; in my top 20 cards I had two Delvers and one Brainstorm, no other creatures nor cantrips. My opponent had double Decay and killed me at some point. G2 I went Canadian Threshold on them. G3 I don't think I did anything.
1-2 4C Delver
We split the first two games, then I messed up G3 after my opponent had triple Daze. They were on ten life with Deathrite and Strix, I was on four with Bolt in hand and Mongoose plus True-Name on the board. For some reason I didn't attack with Mongoose here and Strix killed me with my opponent on one.
Overall, I thought I played really well, probably the best since Prague. The list was alright, but maybe it needs some changing. I like most of what it does against the various Deathrite Force decks, although I'm not 100% sold on all my boarding plans, especially Team Amreica might need some adjustments. I was considering running a Ghost Quarter in the sideboard for the Delver mirrors, so there's something to try out. Maybe the sideboard Tarmogoyf can become Hooting Mandrils or something with Eldrazi on the decline, although I'm not sure how much I like that against Grixis.
Interestingly, even though I went 2-3 in matches against the Sultai decks, I was up a game with a 7-6 record.
I still think the deck is well positioned, but not facing Miracles isn't cool. Not like I have many cards specifically for the matchup (really only the third Orb), but it is a very good one that I like playing. Miracles hasn't really reacted to the current metagame though, so until they do, it might be better to play UR Delver (which is stupid because I played UR last month and Canadian would've been way better).
What are your thoughts on cutting the Dazes from the list?Quote:
Originally Posted by ORDAL
Cutting daze... you're trolling right? I don't think anyone can take this comment seriously.Quote:
Originally Posted by koten
I wrote a little something about a few situations of playing Canadian vs. various Deathrite Shaman decks: #theweeklywars #16 — Canadian Threshold vs. Deathrite Shaman
Let me know if you'd like to see more content of this type. I would not mind doing this for a couple more matchups.
you should check the list in question: https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/545296#onlineQuote:
Originally Posted by Contract Killer
it already doesn't have daze. he is asking how it worked out
Really enjoyed this article. I haven't played canadian in over a year now since I didn't like the positioning of the deck, but perhaps I was wrong about that- you seem very confident it is still well positioned.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan Alexander
The list is interesting but seems highly irrelevant to the thread.Quote:
Originally Posted by rlesko
My decklist wasnt tempo deck....Quote:
Originally Posted by Contract Killer