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I really like the idea of this deck and maybe start building it. What is the learning curve for this deck like? I've only played with tezzaffinitly, dredge(led,less,&manaless), burn, u/r delver, grixis tempo, and reanimator. So, I basically don't have any experience with any of the deck sans sfm.
@rxavage, I have been playing Death and Taxes for over a year and I would say it's very skill intensive and rewards tight play. Considering the fact that DnT plays with "fair" cards, you try to parlay small incremental advantages throughout the match to win. And because of this, you tend to grind out games, something that your previous decks don't do (Based on your list, you seem to like being the aggressor and/or comboing off). I don't think this deck can be just picked up by anyone prior to a tourney and do well with it as there are plenty of interactions that one can only master through experience making its learning curve really high. It also rewards a player's ability to read an opponent as to what he is playing, as the deck doesn't have library manipulation so you should know what is good and bad for a certain matchup. Furthermore, some of the deck's best cards require knowledge of how your opponent's deck operates to gain optimum value, like using Rishadan Port to cut off the best color, blind naming for Phyrexian Revoker, fetching the correct equipment etc.
I honestly believe that it has a good to great matchup against the top of the field in the current meta based on personal experience, plus the addition of Thalia might just push the deck over the top as it strengthens some of its weaker matchups (Not enough testing on this yet).
I do suggest that you playtest the deck on Cockatrice or proxy some of the cards first as you wouldn't want to be splurging on 4 Karakases and 4 Rishadan Ports then deciding that the deck is not for you. Karakas is usually a 1-of in other decks and the Ports are only used in Lands and Goblins. Hope this helps!
Hello,
In the current meta which would you pick of the 2 build, please add reason for picking it over the other aswell
Build 1
Lands [22]
4 wasteland
4 rishadan port
3 karakas
9 plains
2 flagstones of trokair
Spells [11]
1 sofi
1 solas
1 jitte
4 stp
4 aether vial
Creatures [27]
4 mother of runes
3 phyrexian revoker
3 thalia, guardian of thraben
4 stoneforge mystic
2 jotun grunt
1 leonin arbiter
4 serra avenger
4 flickerwisp
2 mangara of corrondor
_______________________________
Build 2
Lands [22]
4 wasteland
3 rishadan port
1 karakas
2 plains
1 forest
4 savannah
4 windswept heath
2 flooded strand
1 maze of ith
Spells [11]
1 sofi
1 solas
1 jitte
4 stp
4 aether vial
Creatures [27]
4 mother of runes
3 noble hiearch
3 thalia, guardian of thraben
4 stoneforge mystic
3 qasali pridemage
4 serra avenger
4 knight of the reliquary
2 mirran crusader
Thanks
I would personally prefer build #1 (close to my current list) and if I really wanted to play something like build #2 I would probably just play a dedicated maverick list. Build #2 seems like it's trying to do too much at once.
I'd pick the first list. I don't agree with all choices in it, namely Leonin Arbiter and, to a lesser degree, Jotun Grunt.Quote:
Originally Posted by _erbs_
But the second list has a lot of questionable choices, in my opinion, such as Noble hierarch (not needed with Vials, IMO), Mirran Crusader (Reliquary is a better beater, I'd prefer more utility) and specially the mana base.
Build #1 definitely. For one, it is a lot more stable in terms of its manabase (though Flagstones seems an odd choice w/o cataclysm, esp. without a 4th Karakas) and is more pointed in how to play it--obviously a taxation deck.Quote:
Originally Posted by _erbs_
#2, however, is torn between being Maverick and D&T. Nobles/Birds and Vials shouldn't be in the same deck, imo, since the ramp they provide is often readily available in vial. Overall, if you want to play knight, crusader and mom in the same deck, just make Maverick. There is a reason why it has been doing so well after all.
Hey guys here is my current list. That I am going to run this at a small tournament.
4x mother of runes
4x stoneforge mystic
3x serra avenger
3x phyrexian revoker
3x jotun grunt
3x Thalia
3x mangara of corondor
3x flickerwisp
4x swords
4x aether vial
1x umezawa’s jitte
1x sword of feast and famine
1x sword of light and shadow
1x sword of fire and ice
4x karakas
4x wasteland
4x rishidian port
10x plains
Sb
4x enlightened tutor, 1x relic of progentius, 1x tormods crypt, 1x cop red, 1x ensaring bridge, 1x ethersworn canonist, 1x phyrexian metamorph,
I was curious as to what to put in my sideboard other than cataclysm against UW stoneblade decks. I was thinking 3x elspeth or 3x horoki. I do not know which one is better against them. Also what should I take out when I face these stoneblade decks? Last question, what do we do about wrath of god or crucible of worlds... They are a real pain to deal with.
@Wrath of God: if you know your opponent is playing it, don't overextend into it. That is, do not cast all your creatures from your hand. Losing two to Wrath may be fine. Losing three is backbreaking. Not many decks playing this though. You have a lot of tools to keep opponents from getting the mana, especially with Thalia now.
@Crucible: we have enough basic lands and aggressive pressure to ever keep Waste-lock from getting us. So once Crucible comes out, your Wastelands and Ports are only for mana. You lose one bullet from your gun. I have not had problems with this card except against Landstill. That was a long time ago, and probably the last time I saw Wrath of God, btw. Come to think of it, the Hokori talk stopped about that time. I feel like I am in a time warp.
Also, Cataclysm is crappy against Stoneblade or any other deck that can field a single creature that is better than what we have - which, btw, is most decks. So forget Cataclysm unless you are only facing tribal stuff.
On the note of Cat: what's your opinion of Cataclysm in D&T? I bought 3 a while back only because I heard it was an option for the deck, but aside from Flagstones, what are some major changes to the MD, esp. now in relation to Thalia? I don't think I'll make Cat D&T, just merely curious.Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn
Actually I've found Cata to be insane against Stoneblade. The only creatures they can field are Snaps, Cliques and Batterskull. If you can keep them off an early Batterskull, Cata can pretty much seal the deal. It's a massive blowout when they tap out for Jace/Elspeth and you Cata.
This was before Thalia though, and there is some disynergy there. Also, Stoneblade is generally a pretty good matchup so Cata isn't really too necessary. It is pretty hard to lose after you resolve it though.
I think the biggest problem with Cata is that it's good in the matchups where you are already favoured (apart from random stuff like Enchantress, Lands etc where it's the nuts).
@ Finn: Thanks. I won't be using catacyslm or horoki then. I will keep one beater on the field to avoid over extending. I was wondering what do you think about including 3x elspeth in my sideboard? Do you think it is necessary? Also what do you think the other spots in the board should based on the weaknesses of this deck?
If I may cut in, I believe that more E Tutor targets tailored for your meta are better. For example, I'm running Stony Silence and Aura of Silence because of the presence of Enchantress at my shop. However, when I go to Jupiter this weekend, I will be switching out some of those cards in favor of others good for that meta (which I understand to be Blue and combo--lair of the beast, am I right?)Quote:
Originally Posted by timmycolossus
Elspeth is fantastic, but I'd rather have outs I am more easily equipped to get.
@Barb lightning:
Thank you. So what do I play in those 5 spots. I brought up elspeth because it is great versus control match ups in other decks but I do not know if it is good in this deck. I have never tried it out. So I guess what I am asking is, Are there artifacts or enchantments that are good against decks that play the control match-up better than us and if so are they better than Elspeth?
I expect to see a lot of burn, uw stoneblade, ur delver, a little combo (ANT, TES). I need more testing with thalia (thorn with legs) to see how the combo match-up is now. This will determine how much hate I put in the board for combo. Here is my current list
4x mother of runes
4x stoneforge mystic
3x serra avenger
3x phyrexian revoker
3x jotun grunt
3x Thalia
3x mangara of corondor
3x flickerwisp
4x swords
4x aether vial
1x umezawa’s jitte
1x sword of feast and famine
1x sword of light and shadow
1x sword of fire and ice
4x karakas
4x wasteland
3x rishidian port
11x plains
Sb
4x enlightened tutor, 1x relic of progentius, 1x tormods crypt, 1x cop red, 1x ensaring bridge, 1x ethersworn canonist, 1x phyrexian metamorph, (5 flex spots TBA)
In your flex slots, you can put the following:
Absolute Law
Stony Silence
Aura of Silence
Another Canonist
Grafdigger's Cage
Chalice of the Void
Warmth
Thorn of Amethyst
Or something I'm testing now: Aegis of Honor. http://magiccards.info/od/en/1.html
The way i see it, drop this on burn t1/2/3 and say gg. It costs less than CoP: Red, and reflects the damage back onto them, making less work for your dudes.
I actually like the -1 Rishadan port. Do you have a reason for it, or is it budgeting? Regardless, I've been thinking about cutting down the three myself--they're great waste bait, and they can be back-breaking, but I'd rather have the extra white source.
As a more general question: which is preferred, Feast and Famine or Light and Shadow?
I don't think Stony Silence is a good option to our deck. It hurts us way too much, deactivating our vials and equipment. I prefer looking for other options agaist decks that rely on artifacts, such as Aura of Silence.Quote:
Originally Posted by Barbed Blightning
Against Burn and UR Delver, I like Energy Storm, as it also prevents our dudes from being burnt. But the upkeep may be hard to pay for.
I agree that 8 colorless sources sometimes hurts our manabase, but I wouldn't cut Ports. Instead, I'm using 23 lands, with 2 Horizon Canopies, and I'm never sad seeing them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Barbed Blightning
I prefer Light and Shadow because I think it is better against control. But all swords have their own merits, I've used even Body and Mind a while ago and it was very good.Quote:
Originally Posted by Barbed Blightning
I have the ports. I just cut one because through playtesting it is important I felt to have 11 white sources. I used to run a full set of wasteland and port when I ran 23 lands and a different build of this deck, but since I added thalia and cut (revoker, flicker, serra avenger) I felt that the last land was not needed. Sword of Light and Shadow for sure. Especially on a flying avenger is amazing (no burning it out, no dismember, no swords or path, vindicate, pulse ...).
@barbed: I will try the manabase with canopy and a full set of port and waste. I personally like feast and famine so that is why I play it.
Funny note by the way. Cage stops NO and GSZ.
Has anyone tested this card. If so, does it have a home in D&T sb?
there was a lot of celebratory speculation when Cage got spoiled. Guess you're a bit late to the party. :PQuote:
Originally Posted by timmycolossus
That is, very much yes, Grafdigger's Cage is great for our SB. I would only caution that it never truly stops Dredge/Reanimator. Remember that Crypt/Relic/Spellbomb are solutions, whereas Cage merely buys us time.
Here's my slightly different approach to the deck. You are welcome to share your ideas.
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...orns-amp-Taxes
I see the appeal, but at the end of the day, why not play regular DnT? It already has more disruption and hate for more matchups (whereas Zoo and Mav will give you a very hard time with your deck).Quote:
Originally Posted by Mastikor
As far as the SB goes, why not a e tutor suite? E tutor's great at virtually multiplying your hate cards, while simultaneously helping you to search for cards like vial and revoker.
also, @timmy: I'd run another canonist, absolute law, grafdigger's cage, oblivion ring and maybe warmth. keep the metamorph for batterskulls.
Hello,
Just want to share that i went with my build 2 in a 107-player tourny i played last week. I didn't made it to the top 8 but i finished 14th with a 5-2 record out of 107 players.
The deck performed on what its supposed to do.
i won against most meta deck but i lost to steel city deck and dredge which i really decided not to board against. that cost me if i won my dredge game i would had a chance in making it to the top 8.
the decks i beat was
- 2 uw blade with giest, gw mav, bg loam pox and mono black aggro-control.
i just need to retweak my sb against dredge.
the sb i used was
3 parallax wave
3 flickerwisp
1 pte
1 glowrider
2 jotun grunt
1 bojuka bog
2 gaddok teeg
2 beast within
My current list is :
Main Board:
4x Flickerwisp
3x Leonin Arbiter
3x Mangara of Corondor
3x Mirran Crusader
4x Mother of Runes
2x Oblivion Ring
3x Stoneforge Mystic
4x Swords to Plowshares
3x Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4x AEther Vial
1x Batterskull
2x Phyrexian Revoker
1x Sword of Feast and Famine
1x Sword of Fire and Ice
1x Umezawa's Jitte
4x Karakas
4x Rishadan Port
4x Wasteland
9x Plains
Side Board:
3x Ethersworn Cannonist
3x Jotun Grunt
1x Oblivion Ring
3x Runed Halo
2x Wing Shards
1x Manriki-Gusari
2x Phyrexian Revoker
A little while a go I took out the serra avangers for the Mirran Crusaders and a fourth flickerwisp partly because it gives me more reason to take vial to three counters and also because chances are you aren't going to be getting the vial turn one to get the avenger turn three anyways.
Also the fourth Flickerwisps allows more tricks with the Oblivion Ring shananegains and can flicker the Mangara after targeting something to exile.
I love the Main board Leonin Arbiters. Period. They only hurt my 3 stoneforges and they hurt all the fetches and Natural Orders and Green Sun's Zeniths all day long. I especially love vialing in an Arbiter in response to a fetch, can't get too much better than that.
I chose to play the Feast and Famine over Light and Shadow because the double activation of the discard and untapping of land can be devastating while on crusader with an active mystic in play. It allows the utilization of the mana during your main phase, then porting/wasting lands on the opponents turn.
If anyone disagrees with my choices feel free to CONSTRUCTIVELY criticize them, but give reasons as to why you would choose otherwise, and if asked why I play a certain number of a card or not at all, I will do what I can to explain on my next visit to the interwebbing world (currently at a local restaurant for the internet).
@ Fry: If I may ask why only two revokers. Also how does the list play against rug maverick and uw stoneblade? Also are you going to jupiter on march 3rd?
I went to two revokers main so I could fit the 3rd Thalia in the main. I would rather go to 2 revoker than to 3 flickerwisps, I normally would rather have my vials up to three over two because of the mangara and now the crusaders with flickerwisp tricks and o-rings... fun times ^_^ the remaining two revokers are in the side though... Actually been thinking about putting in the fourth arbiter main because it messes with people so much.
I shall be there on the Third, most likely playing this deck since I plan on using it at the GP in Indianapolis the following weekend. Just ordered the three foil Thalia's I needed so now the only non-foils in the deck will be the Karakas. ^_^
I like the Arbiter approach in your list and i will be interested to see your results at Jupiter :wink:
However, going down to 21 lands seems very low.
With the print of Thalia, i tried to go down to 22 to make space, but i was not happy with this change.
So i really wonder how does it work out for you in your testings ? Did you have any issues with the mana base ?
Not to mention you play O-Ring : that looks very bad with Thalia out. I would say the same for Batterskull since you went down to 3 Stoneforge mystics...
I've played a lot with the Arbiter MD, despite the dissynergy with mystics. You always want the arbiter to be out faster than mystic. Paying the 2 extra manas is a pain with 23 lands, i can't imagine how hard it should be with 21...
@Fry: why don't you run the E-Tutor SB? it's always worked well for me.
Also, same concern as Oxmo: why play batterskull/o ring with only 3 sfm, 9 plains and 3 thalia?
With Thalia, I think we should reconsider Glowrider. The combination of taxing effects can be extremely powerful imo.
Here's a sample list of the top of my head:
3 Thalia
3 Glowrider
3 Mystic
3 Mangara
3 Flickerwisp
1 Grunt
4 Mother
3 Arbiter
2 Revoker
2 Relicwardner
3 Equipment
4 STP
4 Vial
22 Land
Let me know, what you think!
actually i think you may have a point
either way my oblivion rings will be replaced with thalia as soon as i get a few of them, and really i like the idea of glowrider + thalia a lot, i might even try it, since the gameplan of most midrange and controll-decks is going to be devestated by it, even combo suffers a lot
the only creature i will never use in my list is arbiter, i really dislike him, and i do not even know why :confused:
either way i would try the following configuration first
4 thalia (even if its a legend, simply because she probably will get countered if the opponent knows the deck)
2-3 glowrider, to supplement thalia, and not more as thalia is way better
just have to check where my glowriders are^^
I don't want to cross-post, so I'm just linking to my MTGSal-Posting about my recent D&T experiences here: http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showp...postcount=1330
I think the deck is as well-positioned in the metagame as ever. Good times. :)
I've picked up D&T not too long ago but have been testing extensively for the last two weeks. Below is the list that I ended up with for the time being. Crits = welcome.
4 AEther Vial
3 Flickerwisp -------------- %4: I hardly ever want to see him without an active Vial
1 Glowrider ------------------- I started out with 3 but it kind of messed up my curve. Still dig her
2 Jotun Grunt --------------------------- Obviously, this is a meta choice
1 Leonin Relic-Warder ----------------------------- Due to MoR Warder is MD material for sure imo. I like those extra copies in the board too
3 Mangara of Corondor ------------------------------------- playset: yes or no?
4 Mother of Runes
3 Phyrexian Revoker
4 Serra Avenger --------------------------------------------- upped her count step by step. Could be a three of just as well imo
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Stoneforge Mystic ------------------------------------------------- 4 felt clunky, like some people have stated before.
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
1 Umezawa's Jitte
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Wasteland
2 Horizon Canopy ------------------------------------------- have been happy with them - I wonder why so few people run them..
9 Plains
3 Rishadan Port
4 Karakas
SB:
1 Glowrider
3 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Grafdigger's Cage -----------------------has been discussed before - what's the current opinion on Cage?
3 Harm's Way -------------------------------------- Still testing that guy
2 Leonin Relic-Warder
3 Surgical Extraction
What I didn't include:
Oblivion Ring: sucks with Thalia
Arbiter: the dissynergy with SFM could almost be ignored, but more often than not she didn't do enough for me. There doesn't seem to be a common consensus on her either. I might test her again though.
Mirran Crusader: another debatable choice. I guess she would be replacing in Jotun Grunt despite a different function. I like to keep the curve rather low though.
EDIT:
You're holding a hand consisting of 1 land, 1 Vial, 3 creatures, 1 equipment, 1 STP against an unknown deck.
Q1: Will you keep it on the draw?
Q2: Will you keep it on the play?
I learned a while ago to never keep one-land hands, even with a plains. Have at least 2, always.Quote:
Originally Posted by klaus
That said, while this list is interesting, I really think Flickerwisp should be at x4. Maybe he's only been used to untap a plains for a game or two--you can still bluff holding a STP in hand. Just last night I used him to pop out a batterskull-equipped 6/6 scavenging ooze and it won me the game. The Wisp does work.
Is vial @ 3 the only reason flickerwisp is still in this deck? With the printing of better and better cards I feel that the fact that she flies and occasionally does something cool might not be worth the 3-4 spots in the deck. All of the original combat tricks and interactions have left the deck except for this last one, what make the card so keepable?
The double-striking crusader could easily fill the spot now that SFM has made equipment a auto include.
@Klaus' List
I like it. I agree Horizon Canopy is a house, if one's running 22-24 land I would definitely test 2 Canopy and also the miser's Ancient Tomb that Caleb Durward suggested during MM-Era, which has great synergy with SFM/Port activations and obviously Equipment casting/equip costs.
Is Harm's Way better than bringing in somethintg bomby like Elspeth or Timely Reinforcements against agro. I mean it's definitely cheaper, but it strikes me as hard to get much value out of - it rarely seems like it will be a 2 for 1, though I suppose it will frequently be a 2 for 2. Is it better than Oust or Condemn that pretty much always 1 for 1 in terms of board presence?
Has anyone tested Leyline of Sanctity vs Burn / Combo recently?
What results has it proven?
Crusader is valueless against a 10/10 Scaevenging ooze, esp. with a L&S on the ooze or mom on their side. Those not withstanding, he becomes a wall for Ooze, Goyf and Knight. Jitte/Bolt/Swords/Jace get rid of Crusader easily, and maze of ith turns him into garbage as well.
Everyone forgets that, so long as Flickerwisp resovles, his ability goes on the stack. Barring a stifle, here's what he can do, as only a few examples:
Reset a Planeswalker, stopping them from going off on their ultimate
Kill a Germ token on a Batterskull
Pop out Thalia/Mangara/Grunt/anything to save them from removal/themselves.
Pop out Thalia to let us cast stuff at a normal price
Clear a jitte of counters, or provoke its user into using them at an inopportune time.
Pop out equipment so that our denial can prevent them from being equipped next turn.
Give us additional Stoneforge tutors
Untap a land--karakas, wasteland and port being the best, but also allowing a plains to be used to swords on their turn
Reset your revoker to something relevant
Reset an opponent's vial
Remove and opponent's land for a turn, useful on a maze
Save a permanent from board wipes/vindicates, esp. non-Mom targets.
Remove annoying creatures like mindcensor/arbiter so you can make a power play
Plus the uses described in the Primer, as well as plenty more I'm probably unaware of/can't think of to list right now. I'm fed up with complaints about this card, and REALLY sick of hearing this garble about Crusader. He's a beater, but that's all he is: a beater. Flickerwisp does so much more, has a more useful evasion (flying vs. pro G/B) and in the world of legacy as it currently stands--where creatures without huge toughness or are Mother of Runes die almost instantly or a few turns later--Flickerwisp is ten times more useful than Crusader.
D&T has never been a beatdown deck in my opinion. It's a Control/Disruption deck that, while using beaters like Avenger to win, truly wins off creatures with excellent abilities--like flickerwisp.
If you find yourself wanting Mirran Crusaders, I suggest switching to Maverick. They beat down better. Even then, most of them still don't run Crusader.
the reason why I don't have the Enlightened Tutor sideboard is because I just recently got the foils one I would need for it.
I've been playing DT for over a year now and rarely have troubles with the 21 land. Granted it will bite you once in a while, but that happens in any deck, bad draws will out.
I still think that the oblivion rings(even if they cost 4 mana with thalia in play) are worth the 2 mainboard slots. I particularly love flickering it and having something permanantly removed.
I've thought about adding a fourth arbiter in the main deck more than just a few times, but I haven't decided what I would cut for it, possibly one of the four flickerwisps. Vialing in an arbiter in response to a fetch is one of my favorite plays. What beats it when your opponent pays a life and sacs a land... and can't continue to fetch?
I may end up taking out the two oblivion rings for 2 glowriders, need to make up my mind on that one still.
Yost seems pretty unconcerned about facing it, between PoP and Flame Rift and creatures. The bigger problem for us is not effectiveness but slots. If you want to land it for free, you need 4. But then you could run CoP or another hoser in a single slot, and have room for three more Tutor targets.Quote:
Originally Posted by rukcus
This is mostly true, but COP:red isn't good vs Combo. Leyline does address Combo in a way that the other anti-red don't. I think the goal isn't so much to shut down all the spells, but the quick Bolts that make the PoPs and Flame Rifts dangerous. Both in this deck and in Maverick, dealing with their creatures is relatively easy. Dealing with their Bolts isn't, however.Quote:
Originally Posted by kirbysdl
Glowriders haven't proven themselves as MD material, even though I started out with nice results.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fry
Against anything non-Control, non-Combo they simply don't do much.
It boils down to being a meta card.
I see them in some SBs and have been running 2 in the board myself. Eventually I came to replace 1 with Thalia #4 instead. Something that I haven't seen here yet.
I strongly suggest this choice though - here's why:
Against combo you just need to cast that guy on turn two - Glowrider, at CMC 3, will come down a turn late more often than not.
Same for the Control MU: Thalia will draw removal like no other creature in our 75 - having that 4th copy certainly gives us an edge.
---
Arbiter #4 is something I have been considering too. It compares nicely to Stifle, regarding its early game power and late-game weakness. You want that card in your starting 7, since later on it'll merely be a Grizzly Bear. That's the exact same reasoning why nobody would ever consider going below 4 Stifles. Plus, even though that's an obvious aspect, their effect adds up the more you have on the board. 4 might be the correct number after all..
Here's my current list for reference:
4 AEther Vial
4 Flickerwisp
3 Mangara of Corondor
4 Mother of Runes
2 Phyrexian Revoker
4 Serra Avenger
3 Leonin Arbiter
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
1 Umezawa's Jitte
4 Swords to Plowshares
(-38-)
4 Wasteland
2 Horizon Canopy
9 Plains
3 Rishadan Port
4 Karakas
(-22-)
SB:
1 Enlightened Tutor
2 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 meta'd E.T. target
1 Thalia
1 Glowrider
2 Leonin Relic-Warder
3 Surgical Extraction
3 Creature Hate - to be announced...
I was writing a more detailed post, but to summarize, all competitive combo decks have at least two of (1) enchantment destruction (2) bounce and (3) nontargeting kill. The solution to combo decks is disrupting the ramp and the engine (a'la Thalia, Revoker, etc.) and not the kill card. That said though, an active Leyline does require them to produce an answer while/before comboing off, which will at least make them work harder for their win.Quote:
Originally Posted by rukcus
Regardless, the main concern I had with Leyline wasn't really the usefulness but rather the slots taken. Is it so much better for you than the alternatives that you're willing to spend three extra slots on it? Is this a metagame consideration (i.e. you're playing with tons of combo and Burn)?
My meta features both combo and Burn. I've been hoping to rely on Thalia to swing the matchups in our favor, but am interested in hearing other opinions as well.