Why not just play Worldly Tutor, then?Quote:
Originally Posted by Hopo
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Why not just play Worldly Tutor, then?Quote:
Originally Posted by Hopo
I guess for the same reasons why no one plays tutor over zenith. I dislike zenith as it can't fetch the better creatures but this could. That's the reasons it caught my eye. The shitty part is that you really need a Creature in play which might end up being a dealbreaker.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cartesian
Sacrificing a creature as an additional cost in an already creature light deck is probably not what you want to be doing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hopo
My concern exactly.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sparkii
I'm not familiar with this new card. But isn't this how crop rotation works as well most of the time? Sac inkmoth to find another inkmoth? If this thing is sorcery then it would be unplayable.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hopo
Not really, you can sacrifice a non-inky land, turning a fetch/trop into a threat end of turn.Quote:
Originally Posted by shocked439
I'd like to get everyone's opinions on sideboarding against Miracles, since there are lots of variations of that deck seeing play and all can board somewhat differently.
Datanaga posted his board plan last month, which was:
MIRACLES
on play: -3x fow, -3x noble, +2 fluster, +2 krosan, +1 safekeeper, +1 needle
on draw: -3x daze, -3x noble, +2 fluster, +2 krosan, +1 safekeeper, +1 needle
I've played this matchup a lot and watched a lot of videos, and I still have a lot of questions. The ideal scenario for Infect is running a guy out early and getting there with the first swing, but often that doesn't happen and games go long. My boarding plan has been similar to the above, except I've always left in Noble Hierarchs. I run 2 MD Sylvan Library instead of the Green Sun's Zenith package. My logic for leaving in Hierarchs that is that Hierarchs enable the Turn 3 kill with countermagic backup and, less commonly, the Turn 2 kill, which is Infect's preferred time of engagement. I agree that Hierarchs are a liability if the assumption is that Terminus will get cast and resolve, but I am more apt to fight over Terminus in the early game. I don't know Datanaga's reasoning for removing them.
I'm curious what you've seen most frequently out of Miracles sideboards and also what you feel Infect should be boarding. Obviously there will be some minor variations due to us having a few different cards in the main and perhaps very different sideboards.
So Dazes vs. Force of Will in sideboarding is actually a topic I'm very fond of discussing. I'll start with a broader approach to sideboarding, and then move on to how it applies to Miracles.Quote:
Originally Posted by ESG
Most of us at some point in our legacy lives were presented with the piece of advice to "board out FoW's on the play" and to "board out dazes on the draw". While this is a good general rule, I feel it doesn't adequately cover the nuances presented by the huge diversity of legacy decks. As an example, you don't ever board out Dazes OR FoW's against combo decks. That's an obvious one, but when you get to less streamlined archetypes or decks that tend to be more reactive than proactive, the sideboarding plans can get a little tricky.
In short, it's mostly about evaluating the strength of individual cards, or presented in question form "What am I afraid of?". Decks like RUG Delver are composed almost entirely of individually unassuming cards that happen to be incredibly strong when played together. In this case, I'd move towards 0-1 FoW's in postboard game, fearing only a couple of key cards, such as Grim Lavamancer or Forked Bolt. On the other end of the spectrum, a deck like storm is almost guaranteed to win if it can resolve a critical mass of mana spells followed by a business spell. This streamlined, critical mass game plan (as opposed to competing for resources against Tempo decks), coupled with a number of VERY impactful cards (Ad Nauseum, Infernal Tutor, Burning Wish or DP?) means that if you manage to prevent them from executing their game plan, you're most likely going to win simply by applying pressure.
So Miracles is an interesting one because it's not what you'd classify as a combo deck, but it does have a higher than average number of cards that are bad news for us if they resolve. Imagine boarding out all of your FoW's, only to watch your opponent play an Izzet Staticaster. Or watch them untap and cast a Terminus for W while you have a hand of soft permission. As such, I feel it's pretty necessary to leave in at least some number of Force of Wills in against Miracles. You probably don't need the full 4 as our deck can sometimes struggle with blue card count, but something like 2 on the play and 3 on the draw is what I would typically go with.
How I'd side against Miracles:
On the play: -1x Daze, -1x FoW, -2x Noble Hierarch, -1 Spell Pierce, +1 Flusterstorm, +1 Krosan Grip, +1 Seal of Primordium, +1 Pithing Needle, +1 Sylvan Library
On the draw: -3x daze, -2x Noble Hierarch, +1 Flusterstorm, +1 Krosan Grip, +1 Seal of Primordium, +1 Pithing Needle, +1 Sylvan Library
Main deck has 4 Daze, 3 FoW's, 2 Spell Pierce, 1 Flusterstorm
Reference sideboard from last Saturday, mostly for fair decks:
1x Pithing Needle
2x Swords to Plowshares
2x Rest in Pecae
1x Absolute Law
1x Savannah
1x Nature's Claim
1x Seal of Primordium
1x Krosan Grip
1x Viridian Corrupter
1x Sylvan Library
1x Hydroblast
1x Force of Will
1x Flusterstorm
Not a single copy of FoW ever goes out against Miracles. I wish I could play 5...
Sure, care to elaborate?Quote:
Originally Posted by kova
Please explain. Otherwise just empty words without meaning. There are no cards that will lose you the game once resolved that you sb cards can't handle.Quote:
Originally Posted by kova
Against Miracles I want to hate Top and removal and to some extent Staticaster and maybe Blood moon. Against stp you have vines and Flusterstorm as well as Pierce. I much rather kill counterbalance with Grip or Needle/Rod than fow it. Miracles has so many angles of control that on average you can't afford to hymn yourself to deal with just one unless it's the deciding play.
The thing is to leave as many forces in as you comfortably can but you have way better cards to bring in usually. Siding out hierarchs gives you a lot of room to play. I usually have 1-2 forces still in games 2&3. Daze is not the best card against miracles but it gives you some room to avoid the critical turn 2 balance while also boosting Flusterstorm like no other spell.
Flusterstorm is very good against miracles and you can easily make the fow->flusterstorm switch without diluting your decks strategy.
On the other hand, the matchup is rather good so maybe this is just splitting hairs.
I totally agree, that's why i have 2 needles on the board. stopping tops is huge vs miracles... I sideout hierarchs and dazes too both on the play and on the draw, and loading it up on grips, primordium and more permissions. I could say it's a positive matchup for us, Inkmoths are MVP here!Quote:
Originally Posted by Hopo
And with already 3 hate cards vs artifact/enchantments in 2grips and a primordium, together with 2 needles... I might cut the corrupter for a Stonewood Invocation, for a surekill vs grindy matchups.
But you can play with 5 of them - just add Misdirection (as it works like fow most of the times) :tongue:Quote:
Originally Posted by kova
It's because no other card allows you to cover everything miracles deck has to offer. And they will offer: stp, terminus, jace, staticaster, moon - not to mention their "combo".Quote:
Originally Posted by Hopo
You can count all different sorts of answers to each of the individual cards all day. Good luck having the right one every time:)
Re sideboading out the hierarchs. Tempting, but I'd rather kill with five attacks, rather than ten. Most of the games against miracles are grindy. Just don't jam more than one NH on to the board.
Your opinions, however unpopular, are always welcome here. That said, it'd be kinda cool if you could throw in some more detailed analysis on why you feel the way you do about your sideboard decisions.Quote:
Originally Posted by kova
I tend to trim down on the number of 1cmc spells I have against Miracles, and Hierarch feels less necessary to quick kills than Glistener Elf does. From my experience, hierarchs tend to either get stranded in hand after a resolved Counterbalance, or get swept away by Terminus. That said, I agree that Hierarch helps a tremendous amount in smoothing out games, and as such I don't agree with boarding out the full 4.
Hello, I'm Clay Spicklemire and I won GP columbus with infect about a month ago. Here's a write up I did on the tournament and the deck on reddit. I'll try to answer any questions there or here you guys have.
https://www.reddit.com/r/spikes/comm...eport_1st_and/
Though its been said a thousand times, I'll throw in another congrats on your GP Columbus win. I caught your interview with Zachary Koch on Legacy's Allure, but that didn't stop me from laughing out loud at the office when I got to Game 3 of finals in your tournament report. Really great stuff.Quote:
Originally Posted by Infect_Kid
So I perused both the writeup and comments of the reddit post but couldn't find any information on the rationale behind the second Wasteland in the board. I'd imagine it's made better by the inclusion of a second copy of Crop Rotation, but what matchups did you end up bringing it in for? Is it just another way to punish Eldrazi mana bases? Or maybe another small edge you can pick up against the R/G Lands deck?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesture
The second wasteland serves a couple purposes in the sideboard. The first is obviously to punish greedy manabases or chalice decks with sol lands. It is also great against 4c knight loam and lands, as they have some troublesome lands like grove of the burnwillows, maze of ith, tabernacle, and the depths+stage combo. The second crop rot also makes more wastelands slightly better.
The other reason sounds pretty simple, but it's just another land. Even though infect's spells are so efficient and cheap, it's still pretty easy to get wastelanded and stifled or ported out of a game, so another land can help quite a bit in matchups against delver decks and death and taxes.
My sideboard is constructed a little oddly, with things like force of will and wasteland in the board, but my sideboard is all about forming a 75 card gameplan and being able to have the best 60 card deck in popular matchup with access to only 75 cards, so having those sideboard cards can help fill in the gaps in a variety of matchup where a sufficient quantity of maindeck cards are bad.
Hope that helps!
Yeah, one wasteland is a lot to have to lean on against lands, 2+the crop rotations gives you virtually 4 wasteland post board, and it has the added perk of comboing well with surgical extraction, which is a one of in my sb. When i run white, i swap it for a savannah, but otherwise it is very good i feel.Quote:
Originally Posted by Infect_Kid