Re: [DTB] R/G Combo Lands
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Djehuti
While its not exactly thoughtseize, I thought about Cabal therapy in the side with some number of dryad arbor for the flashback.
I actually tried this once during an FNM, and it was really cool to fetch for Dryad (the look on your opponent's face). The problem I had that night against combo, was missing with Cabal Therapy, and not having the time to shoot again. Which might be due to inexperience with Cabal Therapy, as it's probably one of the hardest cards to play correct with.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Morte
the closest comparison is probably Worm Harvest. The centaur can be removed by StP, but has slightly easier mana requirements
This is why I think the card won't be played, as Worm Harvest usually isn't played either. One mana cheaper though, but unfortunately vulnerable to StP....
Re: [DTB] R/G Combo Lands
Quote:
Originally Posted by
barcode
Cool card. Goblin Rabblemaster is 3 mana and fits the bill of not needing to use the graveyard.
But it doesn't fit the bill of not being dead if it's not in your first 7 and it's dredged away. What's your point?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rivfader
This is why I think the card won't be played, as Worm Harvest usually isn't played either. One mana cheaper though, but unfortunately vulnerable to StP....
That's probably true. Anyway, door maindecked one Worm Harvest with success. It's very good against Miracles.
Re: [DTB] R/G Combo Lands
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Morte
But it doesn't fit the bill of not being dead if it's not in your first 7 and it's dredged away. What's your point?
You quoted my point: It doesn't rely on the graveyard. What are you dredging when there's a Rest in Peace in play?
Re: [DTB] R/G Combo Lands
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Morte
http://www.magicspoiler.com/wp-conte...ne-Centaur.png
Vine Centaur 3G
Trample
Vine Centaur enters the battlefield with a +1/+1 counter for each land in all graveyards.
Whenever a land is put into a graveyard from anywhere you may pay GG. If you do, return Vine Centaur from the graveyard to your hand.
1/1
From. Seems really cool. Is this the alternative wincon we were looking for?
This guy seem good!
Pros: abrupt decay/counterballance proof casting cost (important), synergy with dredge (land from ANYWHERE), trample against all those small legacy-creatues
Cons: he needs a graveyard to function, although it says ALL graveyards, not just yours.
Masked Admirers anyone??
Re: [DTB] R/G Combo Lands
Hello all,
I've got some more videos, but I also wanted to comment that Vine Centaur has the same problem as an alternative win-con that things like Seismic Assault, Molten Vortex, and Worm Harvest have: they're not too good without Loam. And Loam is so much less reliable games two and three that I wouldn't want to have Centaur in my board. However, as an alternate to Loam games two and three, Sylvan Library seems viable. Not as a win-con of course, but as a consistency engine. Check out Building a Fortress #40 to see how Library works out.
Building a Fortress #37
Building a Fortress #38
Building a Fortress #39
Building a Fortress #40
Re: [DTB] R/G Combo Lands
Quote:
Originally Posted by
gigapatrick
Hello all,
However, as an alternate to Loam games two and three, Sylvan Library seems viable. Not as a win-con of course, but as a consistency engine. Check out Building a Fortress #40 to see how Library works out
Havent watched the vid yet, but definitely agree on this one (even played 2 main last event). The interesting thing about library (besides bypassing gravehate) is that it synergises with loam (where multiple loams dont synergise with eachother).
Edit: wanted to add an anecdote. Last match vs miracles i held library and thoughtseize in the opener. He went first and then I saw he had double rip in hand when casting TS. Let him keep them both, took another businesscard and cast library the next turn :), won that game on the back of library.
Re: [DTB] R/G Combo Lands
Quote:
Originally Posted by
barcode
You quoted my point: It doesn't rely on the graveyard. What are you dredging when there's a Rest in Peace in play?
I mean, I already addressed this point, if you read my previous comments. Nobody is talking about a graveyard independent wincon here - obviously. This is an alternative wincon, possibly maindeckable. The real doubt is about its effectiveness, since it's highly comparable with Worm Harvest, which has been mainly forgiven.
Edit - gigapatrick, I just watched BaF#40, I really like your new sideboard with Sylvan Library and full set of CoV. Did you intentionally keep 3 Mazes against Miracles, or could you cut them for the 4th Fire and some SoR?
Re: [DTB] R/G Combo Lands
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Morte
I mean, I already addressed this point, if you read my previous comments. Nobody is talking about a graveyard independent wincon here - obviously. This is an alternative wincon, possibly maindeckable. The real doubt is about its effectiveness, since it's highly comparable with Worm Harvest, which has been mainly forgiven.
Edit - gigapatrick, I just watched BaF#40, I really like your new sideboard with Sylvan Library and full set of CoV. Did you intentionally keep 3 Mazes against Miracles, or could you cut them for the 4th Fire and some SoR?
I cut down to two PFire and kept three Mazes, but yeah, you could probably drop down to one Maze for a third PFire and a Sphere. I don't think I'd want to drop all Mazes, though, since you still want Loam to have some utility outside of the combo.
Re: [DTB] R/G Combo Lands
Is anyone else going to seattle? My flight leaves Thursday and wanted to meet some fellow garden friends
Re: [DTB] R/G Combo Lands
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Cfetchcaviar
Is anyone else going to seattle? My flight leaves Thursday and wanted to meet some fellow garden friends
Yeah, I'll be in Seattle tomorrow. Really long time Lands player from toronto since the gargoyle castle era : p. Shoot me a pm.
Re: [DTB] R/G Combo Lands
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Morte
I mean, I already addressed this point, if you read my previous comments. Nobody is talking about a graveyard independent wincon here - obviously. This is an alternative wincon, possibly maindeckable. The real doubt is about its effectiveness, since it's highly comparable with Worm Harvest, which has been mainly forgiven.
Yes.
Since we are using both Gamble and Life from the Loam in this deck, we should have a 2nd wincon that is gaveyard-returnable. We only need it as a 1-off, since we have Gamble (we will in theory have 1+4 cards). If it gets discarded to gamble dredged to loam, we will just return it to hand/battlefield or top of library.
... the search is on!
Sidenote: a good man-land would fit perfect, as we can get it from the graveyard with Loam.
Re: [DTB] R/G Combo Lands
Quote:
Originally Posted by
t000
Yes.
Since we are using both
Gamble and
Life from the Loam in this deck, we should have a
2nd wincon that is gaveyard-returnable. We only need it as a 1-off, since we have Gamble (we will in theory have 1+4 cards). If it gets discarded to gamble dredged to loam, we will just return it to hand/battlefield or top of library.
... the search is on!
Sidenote: a good man-land would fit perfect, as we can get it from the graveyard with Loam.
So what is your idea of this slot? Could this new spoiled card fit into this Space?
I think that we have to play against gave hate, in order to get rid lf all Shamans, Leylines, Rip, Crypt and all other possible cards...in my opinion we have to play a non-grave reliable card...but this is the Point of discussion
Re: [DTB] R/G Combo Lands
Quote:
Originally Posted by
hyp3r1on
Yeah, I'll be in Seattle tomorrow. Really long time Lands player from toronto since the gargoyle castle era : p. Shoot me a pm.
Now I'm curious who you are. :)
Also making the trek from Toronto.
Re: [DTB] R/G Combo Lands
You already have two win cons, fire and DD. One of which doesn't technically rely on the GY. I think another win con isn't needed and will only dilute the deck unless a new approach is taken.
Re: [DTB] R/G Combo Lands
I agree that the deck probably does not want another win condition. But if you are looking for one and one that is also grave-dependent at that (like the Centaur) Worm Harvest should be better than the Centaur in most circumstances. It's a more resilient threat, better defensively, easier to find... Only thing is it's harder to cast.
Re: [DTB] R/G Combo Lands
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dissection
You already have two win cons, fire and DD. One of which doesn't technically rely on the GY. I think another win con isn't needed and will only dilute the deck unless a new approach is taken.
Using Punishing Fire as an alternative wincon is verry, verry slow. When your in a tournament its extremely exhausting to play every round to out to 60min/the end. You'l get verry tierd in the top 8! I dont want that :wink:
I also feel Grove/Pfire is good in this deck, but the +1 life gain often makes me swing 2 turns with the Witch. I feel this is anoying, looking info replacements for Pfire..
Re: [DTB] R/G Combo Lands
Quote:
Originally Posted by
t000
Using
Punishing Fire as an alternative wincon is verry, verry slow. When your in a tournament its extremely exhausting to play every round to out to 60min/the end. You'l get verry tierd in the top 8! I dont want that :wink:
I also feel Grove/Pfire is good in this deck, but the +1 life gain often makes me swing 2 turns with the Witch. I feel this is anying, looking info replacements for Pfire..
Sure, but it's a still a legit way to win. Obviously you can only use it when you're in control of the game, but once you achieve that state you can play very fast and increments or 1 or 2 damage can add up faster than it sounds. Lands is a slow deck, you shouldn't be going into a large tournament without enough practice to play fast enough or expect fast games (although they can happen, I know).
I'd get around the life gain off groves by firing their face! There is no replacement for Punishing Fire.
Re: [DTB] R/G Combo Lands
Quote:
Originally Posted by
t000
Using
Punishing Fire as an alternative wincon is verry, verry slow. When your in a tournament its extremely exhausting to play every round to out to 60min/the end. You'l get verry tierd in the top 8! I dont want that :wink:..
Pfire is faster than you think. With 6 mana (1 grove, 3 red, 2 colorless) you'll burn 3 a turn. That's the same clock as Creeping Tarpit.
Re: [DTB] R/G Combo Lands
Quote:
Originally Posted by
t000
Using
Punishing Fire as an alternative wincon is verry, verry slow. When your in a tournament its extremely exhausting to play every round to out to 60min/the end. You'l get verry tierd in the top 8! I dont want that :wink:
I also feel Grove/Pfire is good in this deck, but the +1 life gain often makes me swing 2 turns with the Witch. I feel this is anoying, looking info replacements for Pfire..
Its a neccessary evil. If your opponent gained a bunch of life from grove, it was most likely because you needed colored mana to keep yourself from dying which is totally fine. half of makng the witch is living long enough to actually do it. it took me a long time to learn when it was time to start closing out with slow motion burn, but if you worry about how long it takes, stack any mana land + a red source + grove, turn them sideways eot and say "net 1?". that time saved compounds over the course of a match.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk
Re: [DTB] R/G Combo Lands
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rivfader
Pfire is faster than you think. With 6 mana (1 grove, 3 red, 2 colorless) you'll burn 3 a turn. That's the same clock as Creeping Tarpit.
your scenario is incorrect.
sure if you have that 6 mana and the PF in your hand it does 3 damage by bringing it back once....but then the PF is in your graveyard for the next turn...so with those 6 mana you can't do 3 damage every turn..only once. then you're back to 1 damage a turn.
