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Emidln, what does your latest list look like at the moment?
And how is your matchup against ANT and Dreadstill? I'm thinking of playing FT again in my next tournament, but I'd like to have a deck that can deal with those two. I also expect to meet a lot of discard, but I suppose having a maindeck AN and a couple of sideboarded ones should make that a bit less painful?
No, Infernal Tutors and an extra IGG is what wins you discard games, as 2x LED and an Infernal wins you the game. You can drop your LEDs as soon as you draw them, and then find an IT ftw.
Ad Nauseam is fine and can work, but IGG is a guaranteed victory against black discard.
I run 1x Ad Nauseam in my 75, and it's in the sideboard. I don't play one maindeck, as this is to combat a more controlling metagame. Multiple copies of AdN in a list that runs 4x Mystical Tutor, tops and fetches, ponders, brainstorms and two other win-cards is probably not the best use of your maindeck or sideboard space.
Pce,
--DC
I played this in chicago over the weekend to a 3-2 finish and a 3-1-1 + top4. In the first event, I lost to Ad Nauseam in a game 3 vs ichorid due to a play mistake. (I should have stopped at 4 life event though I was statistically unlikely to die before I hit a SDT, Infernal Tutor, or Lotus Petal with 10 of those left in 34 cards vs 2 4cc cards. My opp went all in turn 1 on Breakthough + LED to see it Pyroblasted so I wasn't under any pressure while comboing turn 3.) I lost my second match to Mono Blue Stax in a close 3 where I was always one turn behind. I think my matches went like this
Thresh 2-1
Ichorid 1-2
EPIC Painter 2-0
Blue Stax 1-2
DDFT Mirror 2-0
Geddon Stax 0-2 (This wasn't even close. 1 KGrip wasn't enough in game 1. Aura of Silence combined with me being light on lands was a blowout in game 2.)
Ichorid 2-0 (I think I played 2 out of 4 of the nonblue players at this point in the event)
UBx Faestill 2-0
UWg Landstill 2-1
Belcher I.D.
URg Dreadstill w/Painter 2-0
Team America 1-2
All of my losses (except Geddon Stax) were extremely close, particularly the match vs Team America where I wasn't drawing fetches, petals, or lands that tapped for useful mana (say red or black) and was forced to combo using Sensei's Divining Tops, LEDs, Mystical Tutors, and prayer (he was at 4 life after all that and I discarded 2 Pyroblast + some black cards to LEDs).
I think that I want either additional Shattering Sprees or Hurkyl's Recall if I go into a known Stax metagame again (although, to be fair, I was an Academy Ruins away from winning through Chalice @ 0, Chalice @ 2, Chalice @ 3, Sphere of Resistance x2, Trinisphere). The extra Lotus Petals weren't particularly good for me and might move back to the sideboard for Mountain + Pyroblast. There weren't many aggro decks to test the transformational board against although Ad Nauseam should have, if properly played, won me a match against Ichorid.
4 Polluted Delta
4 Bloodstained Mire
1 Underground Sea
1 Volcanic Island
1 Tropical Island
1 Badlands
1 Bayou
1 Scrubland
1 Snow-covered Island
1 Snow-covered Swamp
3 Lotus Petal
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Dark Ritual
1 Cabal Ritual
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Duress
3 Pyroblast
1 Orim's Chant
1 Krosan Grip
4 Mystical Tutor
4 Doomsday
1 Ill-Gotten Gains
1 Meditate
1 Tendrils of Agony
SB: 1 Pyroblast
SB: 1 Snow-covered Mountain
SB: 1 Krosan Grip
SB: 1 Ancient Grudge
SB: 1 Shattering Spree
SB: 1 Echoing Truth
SB: 1 Rushing River
SB: 1 Ad Nauseam
SB: 2 Cabal Ritual
SB: 2 Infernal Tutor
SB: 1 Lotus Petal
SB: 1 Helm of Awakening
SB: 1 Grapeshot
I'm going to list the Doomsday piles and sideboarding I used:
//Thresh G1
Meditate
KGrip
Dark Rit
Dark Rit
Tendrils
// CB Thresh SB
-2 Lotus Petal
-1 Cabal Ritual
-1 Ponder
+1 Ancient Grudge
+1 Krosan Grip
+1 Pyroblast
+1 Snow-covered Mountain
//Thresh G3
Meditate
Petal
LED
LED
Tendrils
//Ichorid G1
Brainstorm
LED
LED
Ill-Gotten Gains
Tendrils of Agony
// Ichorid SB
(On the draw)
-4 Duress
-1 Krosan Grip
-2 Pyroblast
-1 Snow-covered Swamp
+1 Lotus Petal
+2 Cabal Ritual
+2 Infernal Tutor
+1 Ad Nauseam
+1 Echoing Truth
+1 Ancient Grudge
(On the play)
-4 Duress
-1 Krosan Grip
-1 Snow-covered Swamp
-1 Sensei's Divining Top
+1 Lotus Petal
+2 Cabal Ritual
+2 Infernal Tutor
+1 Ad Nauseam
+1 Pyroblast
//Painter G1
Meditate
Petal
LED
LED
Tendrils
// Painter SB
-2 Lotus Petal
-1 Cabal Ritual
-2 Ponder
+1 Pyroblast
+1 Ancient Grudge
+1 Shattering Spree
+1 Snow-covered Mountain
+1 Krosan Grip
//Painter G2
Meditate
SDT
LED
LED
Tendrils
// Blue Stax G2
Meditate
Petal
LED
LED
Tendrils
Blue Stax SB
(On the draw)
-4 Ponder
-4 Duress
-3 Pyroblast
+1 Helm of Awakening
+1 Krosan Grip
+1 Ancient Grudge
+1 Shattering Spree
+1 Echoing Truth
+1 Rushing River
+1 Lotus Petal
+2 Cabal Ritual
+2 Infernal Tutor
(on the play)
-3 Pyroblast
-4 Ponder
-2 Doomsday
+1 Ancient Grudge
+1 Shattering Spree
+1 Echoing Truth
+1 Rushing River
+1 Krosan Grip
+1 Lotus Petal
+2 Cabal Ritual
+1 Infernal Tutor
//Mirror G1
Meditate
Petal
LED
LED
Tendrils
// Mirror DDFT with Pyroblast + Duress and few Chants SB
-3 Pyroblast
-1 Krosan Grip
-2 Ponder
+1 Lotus Petal
+2 Cabal Ritual
+2 Infernal Tutor
+1 Ad Nauseam
//Mirror G2
Ad Nauseam-fueled Storm
// Ichorid G1
Meditate
Petal
LED
LED
Tendrils
// same sb as before
// Ichorid G2
Meditate
Petal
LED
LED
Tendrils
// Faestill G1
Meditate
Petal
LED
LED
Tendrils
// Faestill SB
-2 Lotus Petal
-1 Cabal Ritual
-1 Ponder
+1 Ancient Grudge
+1 Krosan Grip
+1 Pyroblast
+1 Snow-covered Mountain
//Faestill G2
Meditate
Petal
LED
LED
Tendrils
//Landstill G2
Meditate
Petal
Rit
Rit
Rit
(Note: Tendrils + Duress were in hand)
//UWg Landstill SB
-2 Lotus Petal
-1 Cabal Ritual
-3 Ponder
+1 Pyroblast
+1 Krosan Grip
+1 Ancient Grudge
+1 Snow-covered Mountain
+1 Helm of Awakening
+1 Grapeshot
//Landstill G3 (pass the turn pile because I couldn't find any sort of draw and I had duressed previously plus was holding 2x Pyroblast + other stuff)
Brainstorm
SDT
SDT
Helm of Awakening
Grapeshot
//Dreadstill G1
(No Doomsday) Chant + Pyroblast backup into Accel + IGG getting back Tendrils
-2 Lotus Petal
-1 Cabal Ritual
-1 Ponder
+1 Ancient Grudge
+1 Krosan Grip
+1 Pyroblast
+1 Snow-covered Mountain
//Dreadstill G2
Accel + IGG (Double Pyroblast backup) getting back Tendrils + 2x protection to deal with enemy getting back Force + Stifle effect + blue card
//Team America G1
Meditate
Petal
LED
LED
Tendrils
-2 Doomday
-4 Ponder
-1 Krosan Grip
+1 Pyroblast
+1 Snow-covered Mountain
+1 Lotus Petal
+2 Cabal Ritual
+1 Infernal Tutor
+1 Ad Nauseam
//Team America G2 (he had Daze for Meditate as his only card left while tapped out and I was going off with 2 cards in hand (Doomday + Meditate), 6 lands, and under threat of lethal from Tombstalker + Goyf) This was my pile that I never got to use.
Petal
LED
LED
SDT
Tendrils
I was also at this event running strait doomsday without ad main or side.
my list
4x polluted delta
3x bloodstained mire
1x flooded strand (i only own 3 mire)
1x underground sea
1x tropical island
1x badlands
1x tundra
1x bayou
1x volcanic island
1x scrubland
1x island
1x swamp
4x lion's eye diamond
1x lotus petal
4x sensei's divining top
4x doomsday
1x tendrils of agony
1x ill-gotten gains
4x ponder
4x duress
4x brainstorm
4x dark ritual
1x cabal ritual
4x pyroblast
1x orim's chant
1x krosan grip
4x mystical tutor
1x meditate
sb
1x ill-gotten gains
1x infernal tutor
1x mountain
2x red elamental blast
1x grapeshot
1x helm of awakening
1x echoing truth
3x krosan grip
2x ancient grudge
1x hurkyl's recall
1x extirpate
0-2 Round one vs same mono blue stax emidln played round 4/5
game one my drops turn 1 trinisphere turn 3 and 4 i duress 2 more trinispheres away. and as im waiting for him to pass me priority to kgrip his sphere in play and win the next turn, he drops his 4th sphere. with only one kgrip main scoop for game 2.
game 2 i keep a solid hand but with non fetchlands, and my aponent gets turn1 waste, turn 2 waste, ancient tomb, mox, trinisphere, turn 3 crucible. i play it out just to draw into no more lands and lose :(
1-2 round two vs ug dreadstill w/goyf.
game one i lose by tutoring for the wrong card.(i had roughly 1 hour sleep before a 4 hour drive). game 2 i win by casting brainorm, duress(taking stifle), 3x dark rit, and baiting the force he had in hand with doomsday, to pyroblast it and and cast tendrils from hand for lethal.
game 3 i lose to miscalculating my mana and being one short to cast tendrils. emidln pointed out another "simpler" rout i could have taken and won the game. "but again lack of sleep".
2-0 round 3 vs ichorid
game one i won the race by comboing turn 3
game 2 i have turn 1 mystical tutor for extirpate, turn 2 i extirpate his dread return with no creatures on the field and only 2x city of brass for mana, he gets a turn 3 narcomoeba "losing 2 life to city", and puts me on a 17 turn clock....... i combo out 2 turns later
0-2 round 4 vs emidln
both games took forever. and i dont feel bad losing to a more compitent aponent in the mirror
round 5 my aponent was a friend that conceded to me to try and improve emidln's tie breaks
all in all, i was not disapointed in the deck, just my performance
in the second tourney i played GUBW thresh, AND FELT LIKE A TOOL.
I was also at this event running strait doomsday without ad main or side.
my list
4x polluted delta
3x bloodstained mire
1x flooded strand (i only own 3 mire)
1x underground sea
1x tropical island
1x badlands
1x tundra
1x bayou
1x volcanic island
1x scrubland
1x island
1x swamp
4x lion's eye diamond
1x lotus petal
4x sensei's divining top
4x doomsday
1x tendrils of agony
1x ill-gotten gains
4x ponder
4x duress
4x brainstorm
4x dark ritual
1x cabal ritual
4x pyroblast
1x orim's chant
1x krosan grip
4x mystical tutor
1x meditate
sb
1x ill-gotten gains
1x infernal tutor
1x mountain
2x red elamental blast
1x grapeshot
1x helm of awakening
1x echoing truth
3x krosan grip
2x ancient grudge
1x hurkyl's recall
1x extirpate
0-2 Round one vs same mono blue stax emidln played round 4/5
game one my drops turn 1 trinisphere turn 3 and 4 i duress 2 more trinispheres away. and as im waiting for him to pass me priority to kgrip his sphere in play and win the next turn, he drops his 4th sphere. with only one kgrip main scoop for game 2.
game 2 i keep a solid hand but with non fetchlands, and my aponent gets turn1 waste, turn 2 waste, ancient tomb, mox, trinisphere, turn 3 crucible. i play it out just to draw into no more lands and lose :(
1-2 round two vs ug dreadstill w/goyf.
game one i lose by tutoring for the wrong card.(i had roughly 1 hour sleep before a 4 hour drive). game 2 i win by casting brainorm, duress(taking stifle), 3x dark rit, and baiting the force he had in hand with doomsday, to pyroblast it and and cast tendrils from hand for lethal.
game 3 i lose to miscalculating my mana and being one short to cast tendrils. emidln pointed out another "simpler" rout i could have taken and won the game. "but again lack of sleep".
0-2 round 3 vs emidln
both games took forever. game one was long and ended with him comboing a turn before me and game 2 i jumped the gun and played chant in responce to ad rather than waiting until he had paid out some life. i dont feel bad losing to a more compitent aponent in the mirror
1-2 round 4 vs team america
i dont really remember these games other than i the 2 games i lost were both 1 turn before i went off. after mulling to 5
round 5 my aponent was a friend that conceded to me to try and improve emidln's tie breaks
all in all, i was not disapointed in the deck, just my performance
in the second tourney i played GUBW thresh, AND FELT LIKE A TOOL.
Man, thank you for the report and much appreciated deep analysis and piles.Quote:
Originally Posted by emidln
It helps a lot, beside the dedicated topic, to approach one of the most complicated storm-combo deck for combo newcomers as I.
:bow:
Emidln I was wondering and this is probably dumb but why are you running Snow Lands??
My other question as I am kinda new to this deck and it is not a no brainer to pilot has anyone ever tested a package with heavier disruption like 4 duress and 4 other discard spells like maybe unmask or something? I saw a vintage list running this and perplex as well as duress.. I have been messing around with the unmask but only in goldfishing and my list right now is more UBR not 5C.
I am just trying to figure out what I am going to do in a meta packed with Countertop thresh builds.. It is so heavy that I would even consider maindecking against it..
The last tourney I was at I never saw them as I got mugged playing eternal garden but my friend played 3 in four rounds.. (He played me round 1). I only expect the deck to get more play.. but I kinda have thing for doomsday.
okay that is all.. thanks
-D
i believe he is running the snow lands just because they are cooler than regular basics.Quote:
Originally Posted by Deger
secondly discard is not as good as pyro/reb because it doesnt stop a top decked counterbalance/hardcounter/stifle effect. unmask is particularly bad because it is card disadvantage. pitching 2 cards to grab one. especially when the only other black cards in the deck are your rituals, bombs, or other discard that could be hardcast instead. plus on occasion if your lucky/good pyro/reb will blow up an already resolved counterbalance while sorcery speed discard sits in your hand and does nothing.
third md counterbalance hate is acceptable especially when its versatile. krosan grip not only blows up counterbalance efficiently it also smashes dreadnought/3sphere/random other artifacts into dust. if you go back a few pages you may notice that emidln has been packing md hate for blue based control for a little while now. because the overall legacy metta is so full of it. and the deck can still goldfish a consistent turn 3 against aggro.
I'm sure emidln will follow this up with more detailed analysis, but I feel like shedding some light on a few of your questions.Quote:
Originally Posted by Deger
Additional discard is avoided because targeted discard is rather mediocre as protection from hard counters. The blue based control player is able to use Brainstorm and/or Sensei's Divining to protect their countermagic.
I suppose a large advantage to Duress is it's capability of removing a Counterbalance proactively, early in the game. However, if one is determined to defeat CounterTop strategies you must also run additional protection from Counterbalance. This often comes in the form of Red Blasts and some number of Krosan Grips.
In order to maximize the chances at beating blue based control in 2 out of 3 games, FT comes into the matchup preboarded. Krosan Grip is often maindecked along with Red Blasts. The maindeck protection packages I have been running look something like this: 2-3 Duress+ 4 Pyroblast+ 3 Orim's Chant +1 Krosan Grip or 3-4 Duress+ 4-3 Spell Snare+ 3 Orim's Chant+ 1 Krosan Grip.
Sidenote: I'll, hopefully, be making it back to Pittsburgh for the next few tournaments. My school schedule (and studying 3 hours away) has caused me to miss most in the latest months.
As a quick note the snow-covered lands allow for quicker sideing in/out. I actually asked him the same question at Chicago and he explained that they stick out alot more than other cards when he needs to find them do to the distinctive art work associated with any snow-covered land.
Hi folks,
today I took a DDFT/AN Hybridlist to a local tourney, which turned out to be a very solid choice in my meta.
There were 21 participants, so we played 5 rounds of Swiss. First of all I couldn't get my fingers on the Tropical Island I'm still lacking, so I was playing a suboptimal list all day long, with 4 Lotus Petal and 1 Bayou (+4 LEDs in DDay) being my only green sources for Krosan Grip.
My list was:
4 Polluted Delta
4 Flooded Strand
2 Island
1 Swamp
1 Plains
1 Tundra
1 Underground Sea
1 Scrubland
1 Bayou
4 Lotus Petal
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Dark Ritual
3 Cabal Ritual
2 Infernal Tutor
2 Doomsday
1 Ill-Gotten Gains
1 Ad Nauseam
1 Meditate
4 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Brainstorm
4 Mystical Tutor
4 Duress
4 Orim's Chant
1 Wipe Away
1 Tendrils of Agony
Sideboard:
4 Serenity
2 Krosan Grip
1 Doomsday
1 Infernal Tutor
1 Ill-Gotten Gains
1 Wipe Away
1 Slaughter Pact
1 Echoing Truth
1 Rushing River
1 Grapeshot
1 Helm of Awakening
A pretty much standard 4color list.
As I saw a shitload of Staxx before the tourney, I packed the full playset of Serenity, as well as a basic plains.
The metagame was something like:
4 Whitestaxx
2 Elves
2 Goblins
1 Zur
1 BW Pox
1 Deadguy Ale
3 Burn/R Sligh/Boros
1 Dragonstompy
1 Aggro Loam
1 Enchantress
1 BG/w Rock
X Randomdecks
So this is a perfect meta for combo, with only 1 deck packing Counterbalance and lots of aggro goldfishes.
Round 1: Marc with R/b Vial Goblins, he wins the roll
He leads with Vial, while I keep a relatively slow hand with a turn 3 Doomsday kill. He then wrecks me, playing a turn 3 Earwig Squad. Woot.
Boarded out Chant for Infernal Tutor, IGG and Slaughter Pact. Game 2 and 3 I finish him off turn 2 with Ad Nauseam without much trouble.
1:0 (2:1)
Round 2: Florian with Bw Pox, he wins the roll
He duresses me turn 1, but doesn't get any pressure online, and I keep drawing lands, preventing him from manascrewing me. At some point I resolve Ad Nauseam, but don't draw anything relevant. I stop at 3 life and win via Doomsday the next turn.
Board out Chant for IGG, I. Tutor, and Helm/Grapeshot.
He mulls to 5 and we both draw useless stuff. I have 3 LED and 2 Petals in play when I finally manage to find a tutor.
2:0 (4:1)
Round 3: Simon with R-Sligh, he wins the roll...again
He plays Lavamancer go, I kill him turn one via Ad Nauseam.
Board out the Chants again for my speed package.
Game 2 he plays a Relic which keeps me from winning turn two via IGG Loop, so I finish him off turn 4 via Dday.
3:0 (6:1)
Round 4: Marcel playing Boros, I win the roll...not. Nah..he does.
I kill him turn 1 and 3, without much effort. End of the story. (Ad Nauseam and IGG Loop)
4:0 (8:1)
Round 5: Dennis playing Elves Combo, or something like that. I don't win the roll. Not a single one all day long.
I kill him turn 2 via Ad Nauseam. Board some bounce for Duress. (Don't know if I should've boarded out the Chants instead) He plays first turn Thorn of Amethyst, but doesn't get any pressure online. I play 5 fetches and bounce the Thorn on his eot and win via IGG Loop.
5:0 (10:1)
I was goldfishing all day long, the only match that was not a bye was Pox, but he had crappy draws. I luckily didn't run into Staxx, but I think it wouldn't have been that hard with Serenity from the board.
What I noticed was:
Ad Nauseam is great against aggro, as it really speeds the deck up. Also the Infernal Tutor + IGG package in the board is just great and helps against aggro. Also I was quite happy with me not winning a single dice roll, both my T1 kills where only possible thanks to the 8th card.
Hi folks,
I am quite new to whole stormcombo-archetype - although I've always been interested in it. I also had some success with my ANT built (the autopilot.dec) and I'd like to take the next step towards competitive Combo.
Therefore I've been testing emidln's Chicago-list and stumbled across one question:
Is the white splash still necessary?
People have reduced the number of Chants very much lately in order to make room for Pyroblasts.
I think the Chants are only superior to the Pyroblasts, when it comes to handling multiple for example copies of Spell Snare or avoiding to get something relevant extirpated.
It looks like you are splashing white for a single card maindeck, that is apparently not "the bomb". In a fragile manabase 2 other Duallands can totally make a difference.
If I am missing something or if this is bottom line a personal preference-thing, please tell me. As I already mentioned I am not really experienced with these type of decks.
Another question:
When exactly do you board in the Grapeshot/Helm combo?
I saw from emidln's boarding plans, that he changed them to maindeck against Landstill and Blue Staxx, which are imo totally different archetypes and therefore I am a little confused. :confused:
//Edit: Just saw that jjjoness' also took the combo in against Pox. I still don't have a clue :)
I don't follow blind boarding strategies. Like everything else when playing storm combo, I customize my plans on the fly for what I've seen and what I expect. The Stax players (I might be confusing a GPT the previous week and the GP) both had infy 2-sphere effects. Helm is as good as a KGrip against one of them. During the games, many opponents will put themselves in Grapeshot/Tendrils range using Ancient Tomb because they assume that Trinisphere/something else keeps them safe. I totally stole a match from a stax player through some pretty insane hate because I stayed patient and was able to identify really early a strategy that would let me still make storm into a Tendrils if I could draw it. I drew it and moved on.
The Grapeshot+Helm strategy against Landstill is actually what the combo is meant for. Landstill tends to bring in Meddling Mage and/or Runed Halo against combo. Grapeshot+Helm means a couple lucky Mages or Runed Halos don't put me completely out of the game, while also avoiding random extracts. Grapeshot doubles as removal in this matchup where it will sometimes kill a Meddling Mage and deal a few points to the opp to clear the way for Tendrils.
Grapeshot+Helm is most often used against decks that can pack Gaddock Teeg/Ethersworn Canonist/Meddling Mage/Runed Halo/Extract/Extirpate, but the cards can be useful on their own.
I'd encourage you to map out the primary functions of the cards in your deck as you see them and then any secondary abilities you can think of. Now try to match up these for the decks that have been doing well around you. Pay particular attention to what makes the card good in the matchup (usually it's something specific) so you're armed with this knowledge not only when playing against that deck, but when you run into similar strategies or hate cards in other decks.
I boarded in the combo against Pox because I felt that Chants wouldn't be very effective against him, and there was a chance that he would bring in Extirpate.
In my meta the white Splash is just strictly better, because lately there's been so many Staxx around, and Serenity is just awesome in this matchup. Also there's not that much blue, (like 2 Cb Decks and Landstills normally) so Red Blast is a dead card most of the time.
It's me again,
I went 3-1 becoming second of the local tournament yesterday.
First of here's the list I was playing:
// Lands
4 [ON] Polluted Delta
2 [ON] Flooded Strand
2 [ON] Bloodstained Mire
1 [UG] Swamp
1 [B] Volcanic Island
1 [B] Badlands
1 [UG] Island
2 [B] Underground Sea
1 [B] Scrubland
1 [B] Tundra
// Spells
4 [FNM] Brainstorm
2 [DIS] Infernal Tutor
1 [WL] Doomsday
3 [TO] Cabal Ritual
1 [TE] Meditate
4 [TE] Lotus Petal
4 [MI] Mystical Tutor
1 [SC] Tendrils of Agony
4 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
4 [MI] Lion's Eye Diamond
4 [5E] Dark Ritual
1 [TSP] Wipe Away
1 [US] Ill-Gotten Gains
4 [ARE] Duress
2 [LRW] Ponder
3 [PS] Orim's Chant
1 [ALA] Ad Nauseam
// Sideboard
SB: 2 [DIS] Infernal Tutor
SB: 1 [TO] Cabal Ritual
SB: 1 [VI] Helm of Awakening
SB: 1 [AQ] Hurkyl's Recall
SB: 3 [IA] Pyroblast
SB: 1 [IA] Pyroclasm
SB: 1 [FUT] Slaughter Pact
SB: 1 [DS] Echoing Truth
SB: 1 [UG] Mountain
SB: 1 [TSP] Grapeshot
SB: 1 [SH] Mox Diamond
SB: 1 [PLC] Extirpate
During my testings I felt more comfortable with a less Doomsday-dependant list because Aggro is a large part of my meta. I also really wanted to play Chant because it is imo way easier to combo off with a Chant than with a Pyroblast. Since there are Counterbalances in my Meta as well I still needed the Splash for Pyroblasts (or Krosan Grips, but I prefer Red).
Round 1 against 5c Zoo
Game 1: This was really aggravating because I had the early Ad Nauseam (I was on 17 lp I think) and didn't find enough mana in about 20 cards. I was at 3 LP, had no chance to win this turn or the next one and revealed a Wipe Away - Meh.
-1 Doomsday
-1 Meditate
-1 Wipe Away
-2 Orim's Chant
-1 Scrubland
+2 Infernal Tutor
+1 Cabal Ritual
+1 Mox Diamond
+1 Echoing Truth
+1 Slaughter Pact
Game 2 and 3: Early AN for the win.
2:1
1/0/0
Round 2 against a GW-Landdestruction Deck with main deck Trinisphere Oo
Game 1 and 2: Early DD/AN (game 2) for the win. I boarded the same thing again.
2:0
2/0/0
Round 3 against plain Mono G Elves
Game 1 and 2: Early DD/AN (game 2) for the win. I boarded the same thing again (except for a Pyroclasm instead of the Echoing Truth).
2:0
3/0/0
Round 4 against a skilled ITF Player
Game 1: I manage to get enough protection for the Doomsday kill - his hand was quite bad though.
-1 Ad Nauseam
-3 Cabal Ritual
-1 Lotus Petal
+ 3 Pyroblast
+ 1 Extirpate
Game 2: Firstly, I knew he was going to bring at least 2 Vendilion Cliques from his Sideboard because it is his pet-card.
He dropped a first turn Top and then passed the turn. When I saw his hand due to a Duress I was very scared...
2 Force of Will, Intuition, Vendilion Clique, Land
I picked the Intuition, I think.
From that point on, it was going down. He was stabilizing fairly well, grips my top and gets some beaters out. I manage to get another one out but had taken control of the game. I had 2 Dark Rituals, a Tendrils of Agony and a Duress in hand. He was at 25+ life because of his Rhox War Monk.
At the end of his turn I see a Petal, Doomsday and Brainstorm. I kept it in that order and went to my turn.
I go for a small Tendrils with the Duress as protection and see nothing relevant in his hand. He goes down to about 16 Life and I will be able to survive the attack of his beaters next turn. He looks at his Top at the EOT and in his mainphase, attacks and then passes again.
I look into my Top again and get to see only the Doomsday (I had 5-6 Lands in play). I take it, play it, it steals the opponents Counterspell and we head to game 3.
Game 3: This was not nice at all. My hand was 2 Fetchlands, 3 other lands, Pyroblast, Mystical Tutor. I think for quite a long time, then come to the conclusion that he is not THAT slow and mulligan to six.
My hand was better, although it had quite much protection.
I had the Top, but it found literally nothing but Cantrips, Lands and Protection. His hand wasn't too satisfying as well but still better than mine.
Therefore I have to Chant him at his upkeep to protect myself from his creatures. It gets forced, I Pyroblast, it gets forced.
Wow.
1:2
3/1/0
I was still pretty happy with the deck although the AN curve is still pretty dangerous (especially Preboard). I'm looking forward to the next event. I'd maybe make the third Cabal Ritual a Ponder.
So far,
Fred
PS: Please let me join the Stormboards -.-
I've completely dropped Ad Nauseam from this deck. It's just too unreliable and unsafe, compared to IGG and Doomsday. I'm never comfortable casting it, primarily since it's an all-in card which you're forced to cast early on - compared to Doomsday and IGG wherein you can afford to wait to sculpt your hand for protection and acceleration before you go off.
Which is why I've come to the conclusion that, if you play it, one is the number to play, as the next time you would try and play it you are generally in a worse position than the first time you tried to play it.
I was playing straight FDDT against a TES list and I just pwned him with the amount of disruption I could play. I stopped him from comboing off three different times. Duressed away his only tutor, then I Chanted in response to an Ad Nauseam, and then I Blasted a Mystical Tutor aimed at another tutor, and then blasted a Brainstorm to keep him from finding anything relevant. I got him down to no cards in hand still with no combo completed, and then comfortably combo'ed off with a protected storm count of 12 plus Tendrils via Doomsday.
It was disgusting.
Pce,
--DC
I have been trying to play emidln's GP (without extra petals) list for a while to try to learn how to do it, so maybe one day I'll have the balls to list it for a tournament. While I like Doomsday, there is just too much random aggro/burn/ichorid around here to not have a reliable plan against "dude, dude, burn". I guess maybe ETW could work.
I first thought about hybridized lists, with 1 AN, 1 IGG and 1 DD, but now the AN seems out of purpose to me. I know it can be THE setup spell for DD, but where else lies its value? What can (or rather should) I beat with AN that I can't with IGG loops?
I ask that because I know I could dispatch Nacatls easily going IGGy Pop style, so I considered playing 2 DDs and 2 IGGs, but I feel like it would be going back to 2007 or so.
So that you can make situated comments, brazillian meta lacks both CB and combo. During 2008, tournaments had a shitload of Aggro Loam in the top tables. (I guess my team helped that trend, but still...) Even nowadays, its much more common to see Stifle blue than CB blue. That helps with my rage reactions to not-so-rare double Pyroblast hands.
Thoughts?
You have 4 Duress, 1 Chant, 4 Mystical Tutor, the ability to easily win turn 1-2 before the burn can happen enough to matter, and still have IGG to setup in case all of that fails. That GP list is fine against aggro. Ad Nauseam is better when you have mana + mystical tutor turn one where it buys you free wins that Infernal Tutor/IGG usually cannot (due to costing an extra 2-3 mana). You can't cut Lotus Petals from my GP list and expect it to work at all. It needs at least 4 Petal (maybe some number of Chrome Mox depending on how often you employ Ad Nauseam) to expect to get some mana after a resolved Ad Nauseam.
You see, I am still not good enought to pull out these turn 2 wins. So it must be that I still need some milleage before feeling confortable with the deck.
Regarding the Petals, I just tried to keep up to your latest update that I know of, as quoted bellow.
Have you given up on that or decided for something else?Quote:
Originally Posted by emidln
I get it about AN free wins. I am just not sure if it's needed, as this decks seems to value card slots like no other.
Thanks for the input.