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Agreed. It's just kind of a fatty, with no evasion, which locks it into the slot currently occupied by meta calls like Hyppie and Gatekeeper. If it had flying (or even fear, for crying out loud), then it might be different, but it doesn't scream "include!" to me. At least Negator has trample.
Has anyone tested Nyxathid? Playing it probably dictates that you are also running Hypnotic Specters, thoughtseize, and hymn but this seems like a decent fattie that works better with Dark Confidant than Tombstalker. I've swapped it in for Tombstalker in my list and so far I love it.
Consider it in the following build:
4 Dark Confidant
4 Gatekeeper
4 Hyppie
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Nyxathid
4 Thoughseize
4 Hymn
4 Sinkhole
3 Maelstrom Pulse
4 Dark Ritual
1 Urborg
4 Wasteland
4 Bayou
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Bloodstained Mire
5 Swamp
Nyxathid has no evasion and CounterTop can slowly kill him.
When I first played this deck, I ran Nyxathids. AT the time I also ran 4 each of Hippie, TS, and Hymn. That said, he usually sat at 4/4. He was only bigger if I had the advantage anyway so he was just redundant. He wasn't a terrible choice, but he wasn't a great choice either.
I am trying to build a the deck around Chalice of the Void. Chalice is really good against Zoo, counter-top and reanimator, which are the most popular top decks at current meta
Here is the decklist
Creatures (22)
- Tarmogoyf x4
- Tombstalker x4
- Hypnotic specter x4
- Vampire Nighthawk x4
- Shriekmaw x4
- Nantuko Shade x2
Other spells (16)
- Chalice of the Void x4
- Damnation x4
- Snuff Out x4
- Diabolic Edict x4
Lands (22)
- polluted delta x4
- Verdant Catacombs x4
- Bayou x4
- Swamp x5
- Bojuka Bog x4
- Volrath's Stronghold x1
Sideboards
- Krosan Grip x3
- Engineered Plague x4
- Leyline of the Void x4
- Extirpate x4
Playtesting against Counter-Top with progenitus
- around 60% win. Most of the creatures & removal spell in the deck can pass through the counter-top lock. The only problem is the progenitus.
nearly all the lose match-up was due to progenitus.
Playtesting against Zoo
- around 70% win. Save life total in early game is the key. Need to put down a turn 2 small goyf or shade to block no 2cc removal in hand. Life total need to be above 12 when I can have 4 mana to resolve damnation.
Playtesting against Reanimator
- around 70% lost at game 1 because Snuff out and Shriekmaw are dead cards against their "shroud" creatures. Game 2 & 3 80% win after changing the dead cards with extirpate and Leyline.
Playtesting against Melfork & Goblins
- no playtesting. But chalice is a dead card against these 2 decks. Just change it to Plague at game 2 & 3.
I like Arrogant Bloodlord more than Nantuko Shade.
Shade needs a ton of mana if you want to use him as a blocker or to keep him out of burn range or if you actually want to do a decent amount of damage with it.
Bloodlord does all of that without having to keep mana open.
Agree, I put the 2 shade is for recurring with stronghold in the late game. But the result is not convincing. I would choose to recur Shriekmaw rather than the shade. And both shade and bloodlord have no evasion!Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon Stewart
I am trying to replace with Jitte.
But to be fair, an active vial makes Vampire Bloodlord shit his pants, likely bloodily since he's a vampire. He also can't get bigger than the avg. goyf. I'd consider a split at best since Shades are meh in multiples, but not an exchange one for the other.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon Stewart
Hello,
I think Arrogant Bloodlord is another type of mid range creature thats very situational just like nyxathid sometimes good sometimes crap.
I've been searching for a midrange creature that could help tarmo in finishing games but i sadly i still haven't found one. Im still running nyxathid in my B/g list.
Bloodlord is fantastic against the Zoo matchup. We have Snuff Out (and Shriekmaw) to deal with Goyf. And Bloodlord deals with everything else that the deck plays. Other creatures like Vampire Nighthawk are simply to small to even kill a Nacatl and survive.
Other than goblins, no one really plays 1 powered creatures anymore. Well I guess there is Cursecatcher but even that gets pumped by all the Merfolk lords so it's almost always a 2/2.
Nyxathid can't be ritualed out on turn one to start beating, Bloodlord can.
And a turn one ritual bloodlord followed by a turn two Sinkhole or Hymn and a turn three Vindicate or Snuff Out or Gatekeeper or something can basically get your opponent into single digits without them keeping anything on the board and with you not even breaking a sweat or overextending.
Well DnT, UW Tempo, Goblins, and Merfolk run vial and creatures with 1 power. Those were the matchups I was referring to. It looks good, I agree, but Shade is too strong to cut completely IMO.
That's still just a 1 for 1 trade.
Also, to do that, those decks would have to leave their Vial set at 1 mana. While most of those decks would much much prefer to have a Vial set at 2 or 3 instead. You can just wait till they up their Vial counter if this worried you so. Or you can always Snuff Out in response too.
I'm still thinking about how awesome Bloodlord is against Zoo, and how much stronger Bloodlord is against Zoo than Nantuko Shade is, and Zoo is a matchup that I seem to face more than DnT, UW Tempo, and Goblins combined.
Merfolk is a matchup where I would really prefer to hold a Bloodlord than a Shade. Even if they 1 for 1 trade Cursecatcher for Bloodlord, I can breathe a sigh of relief that that Cursecatcher won't be screwing over the Sinkhole or Hymn that I wanted to play on my second main phase.
Well if you play him early with a Dark Ritual, then its not a 1 for 1 trade, and if you wait to attack, he might realize this and drop some more lands, keeping the vial at 1. I guess if you run into Zoo more than by all means play 4, I agree with you there. Shade is nuts in the late game though. I'll be keeping at least 1 in my build. Bloodlord is certainly the best thing WoTC gave Black Aggro variants in quite a while, and you provided a convincing argument for why I should run 4, so I will.
What do you guys think of Inquisition and Consuming Vapors
I love that Consuming Vapors 2 for 1s your opponent, gains you life, and gets around counters, and deals with Progenitus and Shroud creatures that Reanimator plays.
I think Inquisition is a fantastic replacement for Thoughtseize and Duress.
Duress sucked especially in top deck mode in that it could whiff if your opp is just left with lands and creatures after your Smallpoxes and such. Plus it didn't discard goyfs when thats what you most wanted to discard.
Thoughtseize sucked in that it shocked you and your life.
But Inquisition is solid. I think lots of black aggro decks would play it too, possibly alongside Reanimate and Thoughtseize.
Inquisition is terrible both as a offensive and a defensive spell. It misses too much to be good in legacy when you could be playing disruption with better conditions like Duress, mad card advantage with Cabal Therapy, or a little life loss with Thoughseize. We already have 3 good options. The 4th is mediocre when you could be playing the other 3. Consuming Vapors is indeed interesting. The problem is that the opponent gets to choose so the gain life ability isn't always going to be effective, and it costs 4, often a little too much when we could just be playing Damnation. In that sense, the only draw the card has going for it is the gain life factor, and it hits fewer creatures than Damnation.
Damnation isn't one sided. It hits your creatures two. Vapors is a one sided Damnation that gains life, and gets around a counterspell (against decks like Reanimator that only have one creature you really need to kill).
Duress kind of sucks in that often, the card that you want to make them discard is Goyf.
Also Duress often whiffs against stuff like Goblins and other aggro decks.
Almost every single legacy deck plays over 90% 3cc or less cards, so Inquisition never whiffs.
Playing Thoughtseize is like giving your opponent a free shock.
Also, if the deck can play both Inquisition and Thoughtseize + removal, it could and should probably also play a Reanimate or two.
I never thought of it that way. I'm glad they printed that Evolving Wilds so now i can run four of those and four terramorphic expanse and I can take out four Verdant Catacombs and four Marsh Flats.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon Stewart
How does Vapors get around a counterspell?
Inquisition doesn't take out FoW, NO, Tendrils, Warrens, etc... the REAL threats to this deck. Let them play creatures. I can kill creatures. I cannot stop FoW, Progen(unless I nut-draw Gatekeeper) and I can't do much against a combo that has all the cards it needs to go Boom.
Well I guess it is one sided. Even then, killing 2 creatures won't stop an onslaught of goblins or elves. Gaining life is only useful against decks with high toughness, so Zoo and Merfolk (if they have lords that is). It often won't stop Prog either.
As I understand Rebound, it doesn't get around countermagic. Rebound says, exile this spell as it resolves. If it gets countered it doesn't resolve, and Rebound doesn't trigger.
Sure Duress can't hit Goyf. So run Thoughtseize. I agree, Inquisition never whiffs, but when your opponent is holding that Moat and you are holding that Inquisition, you'd rather have the Thoughtseize trust me. It also doesn't take Force, Ad Nausuem, Belcher, EtW, Dream Lols, etc. Pretty impo stuff basically. Playing Thoughseize should protect you. Thats the point. Even taking Goyf for 2 life is a great play but often you want to hit Force, and when you don't its not a protection spell anymore.
Hi. I have been playing the deck for awhile and want to contribute some.
I want to talk about some cards and what I think about them. I play in a goblin-folk-zoo-ant-reanimator-ant and some enchatress heavy meta.
Nyxathid: No evasion hurts it alot and to be good it has to be played together with hyppie which is unfortunetly weak(sometimes even with turn 1 ritual play). Brainstorm basically kills it. He is generally at best a 3mana inconsistent 5/5.
Sinkhole: Thanks enemyfetches wasteland became weaker therefore so is sinkhole. If you don't have it in your opening it is basically a dead card (unless you play against lands or prison).
Hyppie: Unfortunetly he is not the powerhouse it used to be. Most decks can recover from a 10turn clock.
Maelstrom Pulse: I am never sad to see them in my opening even in multiples because I know I will always have a use for them. And it is good for getting rid of multiple gobos/folk etc.
Smother: It is good but most of the time I found myself keeping mana open and not making actual plays because of smother.
Nantuko Shade: He is good but I really hate to see it early in my opening or multiples. So I prefer 2 or max 3 ıf you really want to.
Umezawa's Jitte: Great against everything. 2-3
Vampire Nighthawk: I am undecided about these. They are like the new hyppie to me but against aggro instead of control. It has great abilities but has the same problem, It is a 10 turn cloack.
Confidant: It is a high risk-reward card, It can give you good gas but it can kill you with fetches-stalker-seize-snuff outs.
Goyf-Stalker-Snuffout-ritual-hymnn-seize: I dont think I really need to discuss about these.
Now the problem I have is other than stalker-goyf I don't have a very fast cloack. Shade is good but needs too much mana investment. Unfortunetly G/B don't have any better unconditional beaters. there are 3 cards that I consider.
Doran: Unlike nhyxatid, it is a consistent 5/5. Needs a light splash which opens up for wasteland plays.
Knight of the reliquary: Can be even bigger than doran or goyf for that matter. Needs a small white splash and can get smaller with each Stalker you cast.
Terravore: This is my favorite and next in line to test. 2 of these can be a good supplement. Has the possibility to be huge with so many fetches-wastes around. Double green is still easier than adding white to the mana mix. Stalker can shrink terravores.
In one of the earlier posts there were mentions of berserk and contagion can be intresting. I will definetly have to try them as well.
Sideboard.
Engineered Plague: 4 of is a must to battle gobos-folk-elves and still usefull agains dredge.
Sadistic sacrament: My new favorite sideboard card. Casting this can secure a win against certain decks. New ANTs run 1-2 Tendrils without wishes, Can grab belchers, Enchantress runs 3 win cons, Can grab Ionas from Reanimator and other random decks I cant think of right now.
Perish: Always good to have against Bant, Zoos, Nat order, elves, Survival.
Leyline: No need to explain
Faerie Mecabre- Coffin Purge: Very useful against reanimator and maybe randomly good against Goyf calculations.
Diabolic edict: I don't think they are good enough for main but can be good against reanimator if you can stop them from casting Iona.
Extirpate: I don't like it personally.
Chalice of the Void: very good against zoo and combo, depends on the meta.
I like perish! It is a 3cc one side god against countertop and bant. And it kills progenitus and pass through counterbalance!