Re: [Deck] U/b/g/w and U/b/g Landstill
Cunning wish Vs Enlightened Tutor packages: I prefer E tutor, is faster and handles more situations. Cunning seems clunky these days. But I'd play (and in fact I'm testing it) only as a sideboard option, I dislike maindeck Tutors because give your opponent hints on what you will play post side, and for example in mirror opponent's Meddling Mages could name E Tutor screwing your post side plan.
Currently I'm testing this sideboard:
2 Enlightened Tutor (Side note: expect this to hit 15-20$ soon... I'm buying mine foils and you should start too. I'ts crazy good in legacy.)
2 Engineered Plague ( Merfolk, Goblins, Faeries, Elves, Dredge too naming Illusion, Horror or Zombie, almost always Illusion though. Versatile in various Mu's.)
3 Extirpate ( Ok, I run a Toolbox-like SB, but I can't cut these. Extirpate is MVP in so many match-ups. Plus I own exactly 3 foils so no way I'm not going to play em. Easy.)
1 Zuran Orb ( I play 2 Loams maindeck. Seems an obvious choice against Burn,Sligh etc.)
2 Ethersworn Canonist ( Still the best anti storm hatebear available. She's fighting with Revoker for a 1/1 split though.)
2 Cop: Red (Because it's sad when my 1.5k $ deck lose to his 120$ of crappy burn spells. This in conjunction with Canonist provide protection and a nice clock against those Sligh/Burn Mu's. Not less than 2 because we need to see it asap.)
1 Tormod's Crypt ( Obviously superior to Relic here because I run Loams and singleton Harvest.)
1 Thorn of Amethyst ( I need a different hate piece against storm combo and this seems good (even if not as ''definitive'' as Canonist). Another slot in wich I could fit a Revoker.)
1 Porphiry Nodes ( I don't run any Innocent Blood or Diabolic Edicts and I need o get rid of those pesky Mongooses. It's very good against other swarm decks such as Goblin, Merfolk, etc because gives you a free removal each turn. And if opponent actually decides to don't play against it and let it sac, you actually almost Time Walked him for the cheap cost of W. Seems good. You can play Drop of Honey for pimp purposes.)
Suggestions?
Regarding UBG vs UBGw, (read ''play Landstill without Swords'' or '' play Landstill with Swords'') I think that Swords (and PtE to a lesser degree) is so good that it's actually worth weaking your manabase for it. Plus as you see above, I use plenty of W in side as well, and there are not so many Mu tailored answers post side if you don't play W.
I see Cunning Wish as the sub-par answer of UBG to not having W for E Tutor. And the same is true for black removals too, such as Ghastly Demise / Innocent Blood instead of Stp / PtE.
Re: [Deck] U/b/g/w and U/b/g Landstill
Quote:
Originally Posted by
kiblast
Suggestions?
Regarding UBG vs UBGw, (read ''play Landstill without Swords'' or '' play Landstill with Swords'') I think that Swords (and PtE to a lesser degree) is so good that it's actually worth weaking your manabase for it. Plus as you see above, I use plenty of W in side as well, and there are not so many Mu tailored answers post side if you don't play W.
I see Cunning Wish as the sub-par answer of UBG to not having W for E Tutor. And the same is true for black removals too, such as Ghastly Demise / Innocent Blood instead of Stp / PtE.
I see no issue with not playing Swords. Ghastly Demise is insane against almost everything, and I've rarely had to try to grow it.
E-Tutor is ridiculous, I have foils too.
I would try Rule of Law / Arcane Laboratory if you're concerned about hte combo matchup, as it's harder for them to answer and makes your counters absolutely insane.
Re: [Deck] U/b/g/w and U/b/g Landstill
I'm glad to have received some feedback. I definitely agree that Enlightened Tutor will continue to appreciate in value; it's pretty good. I unfortunately am stuck with 2 white-bordered, and 2 mirage ones, so not exactly where you want to be.
I host a weekly legacy tournament, so I got some live action in with the list that I posted earlier. A few notes, and then whatever you guys have to say about it, I'm down to hear:
-The thopter/sword combo was actually surprisingly good for me. This deck is one of the best at completely nullifying the opponent's gameplan, especially if they are creature based, and I was able to exhaust their resources and then deploy the combo to close out the game. It is especially good because they can't just drop one dude that blocks your factories anymore, which I've found to be a problem in the past, if that is how you're trying to win. I've played the CounterTop Thopter deck for awhile, and this deck feels like a better version of that deck (assuming that the completely greedy manabase doesn't get wrecked) because instead of relying on counterbalance, you just kill the shit out of anything they do. Both decks try to win by stabilizing and dropping the combo, but this one feels much better at it, and to be honest, because you have so much time and draw so many cards, it's not that unrealistic to get the combo off in the same time window as the CounterTop version.
-Enlightened Tutuoring for Pernicious Deed is exactly as awesome as I expected it to be, which is to say the stone cold nuts.
-There were a few games where I was able to Enlightened Tutor up a Standstill. You only get 2 cards this way, but it was still a nice option to have at various points in the game.
-A few people said that there was a serious tension between Pernicious Deed and permanents that you'd want to tutor up. While I did notice it, I think with reasonably careful play, that tension isn't so great that the value of either the Deed or the tutor targets is noticeably diminished.
-I actually wound up having to break my own Standstill one game (which is always the lamest thing ever), but it was nice to have the tutor to do it with (although Cunning Wish also could do this) because I just got a Pernicious Deed, and it was a total blowout--I don't expect this to be the norm by any means, but it was probably the least lame Standstill break I've initiated in some time.
-Someone made a point that running the tutor main clues them into what you're going to be doing with your sideboard. This is a valid point, but I'm not sure that you can run the Thopter/Sword combo without it, and for now, I'd like to keep that combo in as it fealt pretty good tonight.
All suggestions are welcome. The sideboard is definitely still not right yet, and I'm pretty sure I don't have the mana right either, but I like how the deck played tonight, so I'd like to keep tuning it to see if it really gets there, or if I should be less ambitious and move back to the tri-color build.
Re: [Deck] U/b/g/w and U/b/g Landstill
Hey guys, I've been lurking on this thread for a long time now. It's good to see it getting some action. Anyway here is the landstill list I have been using to house people at my local legacy tourney for the last 3 weeks and some comments about some of the more unusual selections. I have been tweaking the list for quite sometime I'm finally happy with the numbers. The meta has been dredge, Counter-top thopter, bant, zoo, affinity, DnT, ANT, reanimator, and some random.
Land-25
3 Underground sea
3 Tropical island
3 Tundra
2 Polluted Delta
4 Flooded Strand
4 Mishra's Factory
1 Scrubland
4 Wasteland
1 Island
Action-35
4 Force of Will
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Brainstorm
3 Pernicious Deed
3 Counterspell
3 Standstill
3 Stifle- Some people don't like this.Whether it is nabbing fetches, protecting me from wasteland, or hitting a ringleader, I always find it useful
2 Cunning Wish- One of my favorite mtg cards. Adds a lot of versatility. I am never disappointed to draw it.
2 Spell Pierce- Amazing at nabbing jaces and forces. Could maybe be spell snare, but I'm pretty happy with it right now.
2 Life from the Loam- Has been very effective, helps you recover from wasteland, hit land drops, and waste locking people is quite common.
1 Humility- Auto- wins against many aggro deks
3 Jace the Mind Sculptor- The sweetness, using this with Life is how would Charlie Sheen say? WINNING!
1 Gideon Jura- Newest edition, one of my drunk friends suggested this on St. Patty's day. I was drunk enough to try it! It took the place of decree of justice. It was amazing for me winning every game it showed up.
Tech-15
3 Meddling Mage- Combo, mirror, burn, basically anytime I have dead cards. Worst case scenario delays or makes burn waste a card.
1 Null Rod- Hoses affinity very well, comes in against counter top, good for thopter combo, and oddly Lands sb tech (mindslaver ect.)
1 Circle of Protection Red- Can't beat burn without this.
1 Engineered Plague- goblins and merfolk
1 Runed Halo- naming price of progress, tendrils, etc.
1 Collective Restraint- new edition, I didn't get to play this yet. I foresee siding this in against dredge, or other aggro decks.
1 Ravenous Trap- dredge
1 Extirpate- dredge, but good for random things like life from the loam too
1 Pulse of the Fields- aggro and burn
1 Fact or Fiction- sometimes you just need to get some card advantage. There have been many games where I have pulled ahead in resources and just needed to refill my hand.
1 Enlightened Tutor- Tutoring random sweet enchantments is sick. Fetching with cunning wish makes it almost like having 3 copies of an enchantment in the deck
1 Krosan Grip- Lame enchantments
1 Diabolic Edict- Good against Progenitus and Emrakul.
So thats it. Sorry I don't know how to link the cards, so hopefully it wont be too annoying to look them up. Here is a quick tourney report. It was a few days ago so its not too detailed.
4 rounds
round 1- Counter Top Thopter 2-1
game 1
I keep a sketchy hand and get mana screwed and he resolves foundry on turn 2 and sword on turn 3.
game 2
Get lucky with null rod in my opener. I let him play top and foundry, bait him with a cunning wish eot and then resolve null rod on my turn and he cant win.
game 3
wasteland and stifle + jace get there
round 2- Burn 2-1
game 1
Price of progress...
game 2
She misplays alot and I end up pulling it out with gideon and factory beats. Had to swords my gideon to live.
game 3
Live long enough to get cop down via cunning wish for e-tutor... winning is easy after that
round 3- Bant new horizons
game 1
i mull to 5 and get hosed by giant green men
game 2
wasteland and jace on his mana light hand get there. Cunning wish for fact pulls me ahead too.
game 3
long epic game where i get mana screwed in the beginning. We end up drawing at time, but I was in the winning position with gideon and jace out. I could possible have pushed the aggro and maybe killed him, but I didn't want to risk him killing me b/c I was at 1 life after receiving knight beats. Cunning wish for Edict gets me out of that jam.
round 4- dredge
round 1
dredge does what it does while i mull to 5
round 2
he mulls to 3, I am able to jace him.
round 3
I keep a sketchy hand with collective restraint and lands. Obviously he has duress. But I top deck a sided in Extirpate to delay him. Then bait a break through attempt and cunning with for ravenous trap.
Get hosed on tie breakers and get second to the guy i drew with in round 3. Decent night though use the credit and some trades to get some dual lands i needed. really happy with the deck though. I mulled alot, but that normally is not the case. I hardly ever get color screwed, only mana source screwed. Cunning wish was sick. Gideon was good, but maybe should still be elspeth.
Re: [Deck] U/b/g/w and U/b/g Landstill
I was looking through my binder when I noticed a card that could be a viable finisher.
Sun Titan
I mean, late game, tap 6 drop a 6/6 vigilance dude, and get a free Standstill/Deed each turn, potentially blowing the board almost for free if you have 8+ mana or generating insane card advantage with Ancestral @ 0cc? I currently play 24 or 25 lands and when I menage to survive early in the game, I obviously stack up between 6-10 between Duals and Factories. So 6 mana is not so high cc for this deck.
Re: [Deck] U/b/g/w and U/b/g Landstill
Quote:
Originally Posted by
kiblast
I was looking through my binder when I noticed a card that could be a viable finisher.
Sun Titan
I mean, late game, tap 6 drop a 6/6 vigilance dude, and get a free Standstill/Deed each turn, potentially blowing the board almost for free if you have 8+ mana or generating insane card advantage with Ancestral @ 0cc? I currently play 24 or 25 lands and when I menage to survive early in the game, I obviously stack up between 6-10 between Duals and Factories. So 6 mana is not so high cc for this deck.
i don't think it would be a useful card for two reasons:
1) It can be countered, or easily destroyed.
2) If u draw it at the beginning it's a dead card; u can't even use it for a FoW.
Re: [Deck] U/b/g/w and U/b/g Landstill
I took 4c Wish Still to an Iowa City today GPT for Providence today, getting 1st place. I beat Dredge 2-1 round one, BW Taxes 2-1, some UW control deck 2-0, and drawing with 4c Thopters 1-1 (I made the mistake of not Extirpating a Sword of the Meek; he had two already in his grave and I figured he didn't play three) and id'd with Affinity to get into the top 8. I beat BW Taxes in the quarters 2-0, Dredge 2-1, and split with Affinity in the finals, with him giving me the byes.
I feel extremely confidant against Affinity with Deed and Wish into Enlightened Tutor into Deed, but I was worn out from playing all day and was a little hung over; and I didn't care too much about losing out on 7 or so packs. I plan on writing a tourney report within the next few days.
Re: [Deck] U/b/g/w and U/b/g Landstill
Holy sweet necro, Batman!
Anyways, I was daydreaming in class and was making a list. With fast aggro on the return, as well as slow Combo, I think this is our chance for this deck to make a comeback.
So far, I've been fiddling with a list. but, some discussion:
1) I've dropped Standstill. It's terrible against decks designed to abuse Aether Vial, and I hear a few people play those decks.
2) I like Pernicious Deed, so I'm playing it.
3) Tombstalker is a clock that Landstill can use, since we don't care about the graveyard and is actually proactive against Goyf.
4) I think with slow Combo returning, Landstill is a good candidate, as we have infinite counterspells with a Jace clock, and now, possibly Tombstalker.
I give you: a deck without a fancy name as of yet.
4 Wasteland
4 Underground Sea
4 Polluted Delta
4 Misty Rainforest
2 Island
1 Swamp
3 Tropical Island
2 Volcanic Island
3 Jace, TMS
3 Pernicious Deed
3 Firespout
3 Sensei's Divining Top
1 The Abyss
4 Force of Will
4 Spell Pierce
4 Spell Snare
2 Counterspell
1 Go for the Throat
2 Mind Harness (basically for increased blue count/ F.U. Zoo)
4 Brainstorm
3 Tombstalker
1 Consuming Vapours
3 Engineered Plague
3 Arcane Laboratory
3 Extirpate
5 Open
Basically, you continually sweep the board then land The Abyss, or clear then drop Tombstalker. Neither Jace nor Tombstalker die to Deed at any relevant number, and basically you just protect your threats and get there. It's all removal and counterspells. Firespout does a number on Goblins, Elves, Merfolk, as does Deed. Deed takes care of any small, permanent based deck (Stax, Affinity, Enchantress etc.) and kills their Vials.
Arcane Lab from the board is designed against High Tide: they have only 4 Force of Will, and need to Cunning Wish for an answer to Arcane Lab before they combo. With Lab down, and with you having infinite countermagic, they can't get Cunning Wish through to actually combo. Plus, it can be used to slow down Tribal and works well with the Abyss.
Top is here instead of Ponder because most of the time you've got countermagic mana open anyways, so with Fetchlands, why Ponder? Mind Harness in the main helps against Zoo, Tarmogoyf, Knight, Grim, Siege Gang, etc. Or, you can pitch it to Force.
Tombstalker can be used to block for Jace or can end the game against slow decks anyway. Unfortunately, it doesn't work well with the Abyss, but what can you do. Plus, you're not using your graveyard, and you can shrink opposing Goyfs by getting rid of your enchantments/artifacts/stuff.
Thoughts?
-Matt
Re: [Deck] U/b/g/w and U/b/g Landstill
Quote:
Originally Posted by
sdematt
With fast aggro on the return, as well as slow Combo, I think this is our chance for this deck to make a comeback.
Isn't this exactly what landstill doesn't want to see? Fast aggro's wastelands tempo you too much to get enough value out of deed, and aether vial is such a pain for this deck. Slow combo wants to play vs decks who's "fast clock" is using Jace all day long. You offer virtually zero disruption or pressure and a board plan of 3 arcane laboratory's is not going to beat high tides 4 merchant scroll, 3 cunning wish, 3 repeal, 1 echoing truth, and 1 wipe away, not to mention the access to 7 hard counters for your hard counters.
The prevalence of green midrange decks makes this deck attractive, but its still too slow and too vulnerable to the decks listed above.
Re: [Deck] U/b/g/w and U/b/g Landstill
Then let me know what you think you'd make your list as. I'm not saying Wasteland doesn't hurt you from fast aggro, but what hurts more is not running enough lands to truck through Wastelands (I mean, at least you can stay more in the game when you're not missing land drops). Firespout and Deed help against fast aggro, though. Even at 3, Deed's better that nothing, and there's not much else this deck could do anyway (it's not like we can play 20 creatures to try and improve the matchup, I'm trying to work within the confines of the deck's overall design).
I see your point regarding the whole clock versus High Tide, but what would you suggest instead besides not playing the deck?
-Matt
Re: [Deck] U/b/g/w and U/b/g Landstill
@sdmatt: Tombstalkers can be a good adition to the deck against slow combos but I think your have so little T1 fast spot removal, aren't you missing some StP/Demise/Innocent Blood effects?
Deed is just game against many aggro decks but T1 Vial + T2 and T3 Wastelands are the main reason of my defeats against aggro decks.Firespout is a turn faster(you do not need to blow it ,but did no resolves vial problems) also a good way to deal with this aggros.But since Vial is the most annoing card against Ubgr landstill may be we should run EE MD.
I'm just brainstorming so what do you think?
Re: [Deck] U/b/g/w and U/b/g Landstill
Quote:
Originally Posted by
sdematt
Holy sweet necro, Batman!
Anyways, I was daydreaming in class and was making a list. With fast aggro on the return, as well as slow Combo, I think this is our chance for this deck to make a comeback.
So far, I've been fiddling with a list. but, some discussion:
1) I've dropped Standstill. It's terrible against decks designed to abuse Aether Vial, and I hear a few people play those decks.
2) I like Pernicious Deed, so I'm playing it.
3) Tombstalker is a clock that Landstill can use, since we don't care about the graveyard and is actually proactive against Goyf.
4) I think with slow Combo returning, Landstill is a good candidate, as we have infinite counterspells with a Jace clock, and now, possibly Tombstalker.
I give you: a deck without a fancy name as of yet.
4 Wasteland
4 Underground Sea
4 Polluted Delta
4 Misty Rainforest
2 Island
1 Swamp
3 Tropical Island
2 Volcanic Island
3 Jace, TMS
3 Pernicious Deed
3 Firespout
3 Sensei's Divining Top
1 The Abyss
4 Force of Will
4 Spell Pierce
4 Spell Snare
2 Counterspell
1 Go for the Throat
2 Mind Harness (basically for increased blue count/ F.U. Zoo)
4 Brainstorm
3 Tombstalker
1 Consuming Vapours
3 Engineered Plague
3 Arcane Laboratory
3 Extirpate
5 Open
Basically, you continually sweep the board then land The Abyss, or clear then drop Tombstalker. Neither Jace nor Tombstalker die to Deed at any relevant number, and basically you just protect your threats and get there. It's all removal and counterspells. Firespout does a number on Goblins, Elves, Merfolk, as does Deed. Deed takes care of any small, permanent based deck (Stax, Affinity, Enchantress etc.) and kills their Vials.
Arcane Lab from the board is designed against High Tide: they have only 4 Force of Will, and need to Cunning Wish for an answer to Arcane Lab before they combo. With Lab down, and with you having infinite countermagic, they can't get Cunning Wish through to actually combo. Plus, it can be used to slow down Tribal and works well with the Abyss.
Top is here instead of Ponder because most of the time you've got countermagic mana open anyways, so with Fetchlands, why Ponder? Mind Harness in the main helps against Zoo, Tarmogoyf, Knight, Grim, Siege Gang, etc. Or, you can pitch it to Force.
Tombstalker can be used to block for Jace or can end the game against slow decks anyway. Unfortunately, it doesn't work well with the Abyss, but what can you do. Plus, you're not using your graveyard, and you can shrink opposing Goyfs by getting rid of your enchantments/artifacts/stuff.
Thoughts?
-Matt
I was just going to say way too much creature hate and no outs to combo-control then I saw how you packed a shit ton of counters. Nice list, I'll play Cunning Wish over the Mind Harness slots, or just Standstills. Seriously, when you FoW that Vial, and play a Standstill, you teach them for playing a deck with Vials. Merfolk/gobs are scary, but the trick is to have a rock solid manabase, hit the mana to sweep, land Jace and win.
I have yet to take Jacedeed for a spin (whatever this deck is called), but your list is interestingly fitting enough of everything!
BTW, just to remind people on Standstills: Turn 2 Standstill is not necessarily a good thing for you. The same way Brainstorming for no reason when your hand is good is a waste of the card. The main benefit of Turn 2 Standstill is: If they don't crack it, you get to make land drops, sculpt a hand. The worst scenario of Turn 2 Standstill is you draw 3 cards. i.e. a turn 2 standstill at worst gives you +3 cards (or rather +2 cards over your opponents).
I'm going to make an argument that standstill is actually more powerful in the mid-late game, the same way Brainstorm or resolving Tops in Topwars makes the key difference in many game. Now, a mid to late game Standstill fetches as much value as an early Standstilll, in fact, it fetches much more value when you and your opponents both climb back to more cards in hand, but now you will always be +3 more cards than he is, and with an even more solid manabase. I'm really tired of seeing "standstill sucks against vial" arguments. It does suck, but the card itself doesn't suck in the deck that utilizes it, or plays with it correctly. Hope I've addressed the situation of Standstill resolving in the early/mid/late game, and hope that sheds some light. I do feel that 4 Standstill is weak for the very reason you say that "Standstill sucks against Vial" i.e. too many Standstills EARLY game being dead is bad. Once you get deed, sweep the board, you'll feel Standstills being very brutal for opponents.
Re: [Deck] U/b/g/w and U/b/g Landstill
If "all I get" from a Standstill is +2 cards on my 2nd turn, I'll still run the shit out of it.
Re: [Deck] U/b/g/w and U/b/g Landstill
I've actually found the main benefit of a turn 2 Standstill is recovering from a Force of Will on turn 1. It is amazing in the mid game when I've stabilized but am low on cards; however, there is times when I top-deck it instead of an answer and just roll over and die. Obviously, Standstill is best when you have a Jace or something similar on the board so if you can afford to wait before dropping it on the table, waiting is better; however, it is still very useful early game.
Re: [Deck] U/b/g/w and U/b/g Landstill
Yupp, Jason, an early Standstill is always good, not to mention they crack your STandstill you draw StP, plow and play another one. The point was to let people be aware that Standstill being a dead card early in the game e.g. against Wild Nacatl/Vial does not imply that the card is weak in Landstill.dec. A lot of false statements are made in regards to Standstill, because these people don't understand what Standstill inherently does.
Standstill resolving and uncracked for turns translates to landdrops and hand-sculpting. This is on parity for both the Landstill players and opponents, but most people don't realize that cracking the Standstill usually involves tapping out unless you crack the Standstill with a Brainstorm. This is the only point where Standstill isn't as hot as it would be, but regardless when that situation is reached, you already have a full 7-card hand with a ton of lands to deal with your opponent's turn.
If Standstill cannot be resolved in the early game and mind you this is usually against aggro decks in general (any non-aggro decks, Standstill ALWAYS resolves), then you are just playing control v.s. aggro without Standstills in the early game. You have one dead card in hand for the time being, your opponents are playing threats. Your deck runs x-1 sweepers, and 1-1 spells, so it just becomes a natural game as a control player, and most things are fair. Landstill without Standstill is fully capable on fightig aggro decks, much better than Countertop decks where Landstill has better answers to most aggro decks, not to mention more EE/Deeds against vials. So after you've dealt with these initial creatures, dropping the Standstill mid-late game when you're ready and having mana open because you're in the mid-late game phase is backbreaking. You will be up on cards, resources, lands, and everything.
The last few posts Im writing about Standstill is to address the fundamental flaw in thinking that Standstill sucks against vial.decks. It sucks if you don't deal with vial, and as a control player, playing with/without Standstill doesn't affect dealing with vial, it's your other cards in your deck that deals with it, not Standstill. There's no other control decks outside of Landstill that deals with vial decks with best efficiency (EE/Deed), which ironically is a deck that plays Standstill. I hope people will think twice before trying to cut Standstills against vial decks. The solution is not to cut Standstill, but rather, have other cards that deal with vial/creatures. If you do cut Standstills, then you're not really playin Landstill, and your control philosophy follows closely to those of Countertop walker or Countertop decks, which don't get raw card advantage, but rather pseudo card advantage from counterbalance etc.
This is my latest approach in matchups against Merfolks and Goblins. I have actually not cut any Standstills maindeck (unless I have no space in which case I drop from 3 Standstills to 2 STandstills). Rather, I have UPPED my solutions to Vials e.g. Pithing Needle, more digging (3rd Sensei's Top with 8 fetchlands) to consistently find EE. Once you solve Vial and remove creatures, playing the 'dead' STandstill puts you in a winning position, almost all the time.
Re: [Deck] U/b/g/w and U/b/g Landstill
Honestly, the only vial deck that scares me is merfolk; and it scares the shit out of me.
Everything else though can't counter my deed, and therefore can't win. Even against vial decks, standstill is a valid late game play (once again, except for merfolk) and I can't tell you how sweet it is when you kill thier turn 1 or 2 creature and drop it when they dont have a vial.
even if they do have a turn 1 vial, (once again, merfolk is an exception here) they have no forms of straight up card advantage, where we have Jace, Brainstorm, standstill, and loam's interactions with them, to produce more CA. We should be getting 2 deeds for every 1 vial they have.
Re: [Deck] U/b/g/w and U/b/g Landstill
Quote:
Originally Posted by
honestabe
even if they do have a turn 1 vial, (once again, merfolk is an exception here) they have no forms of straight up card advantage, where we have Jace, Brainstorm, standstill, and loam's interactions with them, to produce more CA. We should be getting 2 deeds for every 1 vial they have.
I'm sorry, but how aren't Goblin Matron, Goblin Ringleader, Gempalm Incinerator and Siege-Gang Commander not a "form of straight up card advantage"?
Re: [Deck] U/b/g/w and U/b/g Landstill
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ScatmanX
I'm sorry, but how aren't Goblin Matron, Goblin Ringleader, Gempalm Incinerator and Siege-Gang Commander not a "form of straight up card advantage"?
I wasn't clear, I meant card draw and library manipulation. Only incinerator can actually draw a vial, and usually, if they're cycling it for value a vial is a pretty dead draw to them.
Also, a form of card advantage thats even better than Matron, Ringleader and commander is deed. The Goblins matchup usually comes down to:
-Try not to get wasted 3 times in the first 3 turns
-Resolve Deed
-Win
Re: [Deck] U/b/g/w and U/b/g Landstill
Quote:
Originally Posted by
honestabe
The Goblins matchup usually comes down to:
-Try not to get wasted 3 times in the first 3 turns
-Resolve Deed
-Win
And of course, reach 4 to 5 lands to kill Ringleaders and SGC. OH, and have mana up next turn to counter Warhief+Piledriver, that will probably kill you.
You forget Port too. If we (and by we I mean goblins) have only 1 Port, you'll only be able to Deed for 4 on your turn 5! (assuming the goblin player is good). AND you'll be tapped out when you do it, which is when we will kill you.
If you were talking about other Vial strategies, like Merfolk or DnT, Then I completely agree. You just have to resolve Deed, and win.
Re: [Deck] U/b/g/w and U/b/g Landstill
Quote:
Originally Posted by
honestabe
The Goblins matchup usually comes down to:
-Try not to get wasted 3 times in the first 3 turns
-Resolve Deed
-Win
Except for the little fact that it's impossible to save your land drops and reach 3rd turn with 3 free mana. Normally Goblins plays 4 Wasteland and at least 2 Ports. And I have seen lots of lists with 4 Ports. I used to run 4 Engineered Plague in sb only for Goblins.
