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My experience with BUG is complete different. Fighting discard with discard don't help because you can't Win on the back of a single topdecked creature. You'll need a flurry of spells. My last tournament match vs. BG NicFit was won due to luck after we riped our hands and upkeep-silence is golden vs. Decks with Hymn.
Silence IS good versus discard decks since you can just silence-walk them instead of taking an IoK and then they topdeck that Thoughtseize.
Silence walking is good and all if you really just need to hit another land drop. I could see the appeal to having more discard, but Having silence vs the inevitable rise of Tempo will be key.
Sorry for being able to present results and experience to backup my claims in the face of discreditQuote:
Originally Posted by plimplam
This might raise a different kind of question; Does the luck of the draw affect our collective experience with card choices and the deck itself?Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemnear
Played a local tourney tonight. Chopped top 4. Sweetness.
Round1: Jund
This guy just took 20th at the Open on Sunday
Game 1: Made a bunch of Goblins on T1 after he plays a DRS. Got there.
Game 2: I keep a slower hand He Hymns me, then plays a liliana and starts going to town with a Bob. I die to a large Goyf and Bob.
Game 3: My hand was SUPER Sketchy on a mull to 6. He kept his 7. My 6: 2x Lotus Petal, Chrome Mox, Infernal Tutor, Burning Wish, Gitaxian Probe. I probe him and see: 2x land, Thoughtseize, Hymn to Tourach, Bob, Surgical Extraction, Liliana. I laugh a little bit and comment how I am just dead. I draw Abrupt Decay, play out my petals, play out chrome Mox Imprinting Decay. Pass. He thoughtseizes my Infernal Tutor and Surgicals it after drawstep (which was a land). I cast Burning Wish for PiF and hope to god I get there. He plays out Bob and Liliana and I draw: Land, Dark Ritual, LED. meanwhile he has put himself to 14. I rip for the turn Rite of flame. He has Liliana at 6, and Im at 12. All or fucking Nothing. Cast ROF, Crack LED to flashback PiF. Cast ROF, Darkritual. Im all or nothing on my Gitaxian Probe getting me my 3 outer of Burning wish. I get it. Tendrils for exactsies on mana and Storm count. I apologize.
1-0
Round 2: UW Delver (Same guy I lost to in top 8 last week)
Game 1 I probe and see, Spell pierce, 2x Stifle, Snapcaster, Daze, and a Jitte. I get beat down by snappy a bit while trying to form a defense. He draws Geist of Saint Traft and I die shortly after.
Game 2: I probe and see, 2x Land, 2x Spell Pierce, 1x Mindbreak trap, Brainstorm. I slowly run him out of counters But he got a geist of saint traft. My hand is Dark Ritual x2, Ad Nauseam, petal, and silence with a gemstone on board. He hits me to ten. I cast the petal, And Silence him. He has a MBT and Force in hand but decides to just let me go for it. I need this Ad Nauseam to be very good. It was pretty great.
Game 3: I keep an empty hand that needs one single initial mana source to go off for 14 goblins on T1. He says fuck it and keeps his six. I have double probe. I probe and see 5x Lands and a Force of Will. Dont get there. I probe, dont get there. Mean while while Im durdling for a single mana source he rips, Spell Pierce, Delver and Geist of saint traft. I never got there and I die. :((((((((((
1-1
Round 3: Mono Black Pox
Im on the draw
Game 1: He does land go. I have an insane T1 Adnauseam Hand and he dies.
Game 2: I have an Awesome Ad Nauseam Hand. he leads off with the Rack. I go off. My flop was pretty shitty. I end up fizzling and discard to 7 at 2 life hoping he doesnt play Bloodghast. He plays 2 Shrieking Affliction. I dump my hand but am 2 storm short (bad math) so I tendrils him for 16 to go to 18 to buy some time since I put him to 4 and I have a Burning Wish. A couple of turns later Grapeshot gets him for exactsies. this is why I love the grapeshot.
2-1
Round 4: Spanish Inquisition
Game 1: Im on the play! I set up a turn 2 kill. I dont get to see Turn 2 :( Damn unfair decks!
Game 2: he mulls down a bit, I have a Turn 2 Kill and it gets there.
Game 3: He Mulls to 6, and I have a somewhat clunky hand, but it does have potential plus a silence. He goes T1 Dryad Arbor pass! I play my 5 color land and just hold silence. He goes Exile Spirit guide, manamorphose, Sacrifice his dryad arbor to culling the weak. I silence in response. He slaps the table somewhat angrily but in a joking manner. I duress and just take his LED hoping that was the right call, meanwhile my brainstorm was absolute dog shit. After I draw 3 from Brainstorm I have 2 Infernal Tutors and 3 burning Wishes. Super duper yuck. He tries to go for it while Im tapped down though and casts double Summoners Pact to try to Cruel Bargain to get there. He is one mana short and scoops! Yay!
3-1
Top 8: GB Smallpox
Despite this being almost unlosable, its against my roommate. We split whatever winnings we will get but play it out for fun.
Game1: He is on the play because he is a higher seed. He doesnt disrupt me and I make 18 dudes. I win.
Game2: He casts cabal Therapy. My hand is like 2x LED, 2x ROF, Chrome Mox, Probe, Brainstorm and Silence? he names IT. Woo! I draw a gemstone and brainstorm and find a probe and a Burning Wish. I make 18 goblins and his top doesnt find him a pulse or deed.
4-1
Overall the deck was great as usual. That one game 3 against UW Delver was overall frustrating as shit to me because I should have won. I was playing to an 18 outer. It happens though. I wrote in my notes in the Jund Match in Round 1: "Probe got there!". Underlined a billion times. Sometimes this deck just makes me giddy. Past in Flames, now that I have learned how to use it went from being my least used card in the wish board, to the best (though Ill-Gotten Gains is still my favorite loop to cast).
Props:
-As always the top of my deck
-Gitaxian Probe for being fucking insane
-My Jund Opponent for being a good sport about my luck sack
Slops
-The top of my deck for not getting there against delver...
-my Opponents for playing discard > Force of Will
-Greg Mitchell for playing Value town and not something unfair. If you arent going to play your Korean Dark Rituals Ill trade for them ;)
If you've played hundreds of games you should eliminate the luck-factor and get an idea about the average performance. Sometimes you draw the nuts, sometimes the deck screws you, but that was not my topic. It's calculating odds of these 2:Quote:
Originally Posted by jandax
- How many turns does it take to have "at least 2-3 lands" in play in a deck with 12 lands in average if you main targets for Ponder, Brainstorm etc. are Tutors or mana boosts like LED and Dark Ritual?
- how likely is it that the 8-mana-play to wish for Spiral is successful after you gave your Control/tempo opponent (the only archtypes which you'll grant that many turns) 5+ turns to develop (Topic Wasteland, Daze, Counterspell, FoW, Spell Pierce, etc.)?
The conclusions he drew are so off from my experience that I questioned him about that, but I get the same response I get since months: justification via ominous playtesting, discredit and insults. *shrug*
Maybe I'm just being sick of so many new guys on TheSource which tell fairytales about "3 years playtesting" and come up with blue Control decks without Brainstorm and Fetchlands because "Ancestral Visions is superior" (MUC Thread), Eternal Dragon is UW's best killoption and Nevi Disk a solution for the meta (both Old School U/W Thread) or introduce BG(r) decks with a manabase which doesn't even produce red or black mana (Development Thread BG Nether Void/Planeswalker).
I guess I should just quit to try to help people... *sigh*
Eh if people say it works for them, Id say let it work for them. If people come to you for help and you tell them what is wrong and why it is wrong and they vehemently deny it, then let them lose their games and wonder why. I would like to play Time Spiral one week at the local for fun, but deep down I know its not as good.
We know Bryants take on Spiral and I have tested it in 1 tournament soon after it got unbanned but was unable to generate 8 mana in both situations the card was a possible wish target during 5 or 6 rounds I played back then, aside from the case that Gemstone Mine can run out of counters over such a long Game and isn't available after SpiralQuote:
Originally Posted by Megadeus
It's outright cocky imo, to take something that a single man said as a justification for Spiral even if that single mans take on Spiral is very clear.
Ok, let's agree on this:Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemnear
I'm not able to get a flurry of spells vs BUG variants, even in 2nd and 3rd games they will counter my gitaxian... as they re full of good cards/resources vs us . Hymn, Fluster, T.Seize apart of Pierce and FoW.
If you do know the oponnet has Hymn , you can Silence him, but only if he has Hymn, for this scenario if he has FoW and Hymn, Therapy is much better as you will name Hymn with Therapy, and Silence in this scenario will be bad.
If you are playing vs a Deck wich has both FoW and Hymn, Therapy is better as can target both of the cards. This is applicable to other scenarios: (Ex. The opponent has multiple discard effects and Decay and you have LED, you can name Decay, play LED and wait for bomb making the rest of discard from oponent irrelevant)
The match ups I've won vs BUG was because of Silence + Diminishing OR Empty Plan. (for 2nd and 3rd games the Go Off As Soon as You Can Plan is no longer valid.) I just would not like to win so much times with D.R. I don't think it is the proper plan.
As said, even Therapy is good in the Empty plan for 2nd and 3rd games.
So in conclusion Silence is good vs BUG if you do not expect variable hate (pro active and reactive) , Therapy is just more polivalent as can target a Dark confidant, Hymn, T.Seizes, etc. BUT Silence helps us to Get the D.R. Plan only safety.
Variable hate is hard to beat for Storm in any case. Versus Hymn a silence-walk can be enough to win off the additional draw, sometimes wishing for PIF and waiting for artifact mana and lands is the right strategy ... depends. I'm just curious how you plan to Board between the 4 therapy SB and 4 Silence, 3 Duress mainboard (or such) for value in certain matches because I feel it's very redundant at some point.
Something like this:Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemnear
-2 Silence
-1 C.Moxen
-1 I.Tutor
=
+4 Therapys
Leaving the 3 Duresses in main.
Leaving the EtW main even if I expect massive removal, I do not expect more than 3 copies of (Pernicius D. OR Golgari Charm OR E.E. OR Maelstrom Pulse)
I'm not sure about the C.Moxen, but when looking at the Timo Strategies He sided out 1 Moxen leaving 14 Mana Producers which is what we have have with this strategy,
I won't side out any Gitaxian and I would prefer Poder in Base rather than I.T. To smooth the deck.
Opinions?
Like what you said about playing hundreds of games and learning averages from the experience. In the end it's not objective, Legacy is a format for pet cards and decks. People's opinions run strong and personal.
Unless Dragon's Maze prints anything for this deck, or something that makes other decks popular (however I don't think they'll print two Deathrite Shaman caliber cards in one set), there's really little innovation to take place in this thread. Just enthusiasts sharing results and hopefully helping others.
Hi guys,
I've been playing some games with the deck but couldn't really playtest it intensively.
I read lots of posts/reports/topic about the deck but couldn't not find any sideboard plan vs some deck like Show and Tell, Reanimator, Shardless BUG (is that similar to BUG control?
As I plan playing the deck do the GP strasbourg this week end, could anyone give me some tips on those match up?
Thanks :)
I don't think MD Cabal Therapies and SB Xantid Swarms are mutually exclusive if you leave the mana base for 5 colors, but as far as Cabl Therapy vs Silence I think the issue is that a resolved Silence is much better than a resolved Cabal Therapy because your Burning Wish -> Diminishing Returns plan will proceed uninterrupted by a new hand of potential counter magic where in the case of Cabal Therapy your Burning Wish -> Diminishing Returns plan is more of a gamble so you end up leaning on Empty the Warrens and flashback Cabal Therapy which could be a liability.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pelikanudo
Cabal Therapy is definitely better vs discard strategies tho', I think a lot of people are putting too much faith in being able to Chant walk and go off the next turn and it doesn't always work out that way unfortunately.
I don't think there's like "one and only" disruption configuration, I play 4 Duress and 3 Silence for instance because God hates me and I can't draw a gold land for shit even when I play 7 of them MD, and I don't think anyone can really say definitively that it's strictly worse than 4 Silence and 3 Duress vs a whole metagame because the extra discard spell is going to have pluses and minuses vs this and that.
I agree, the unique reason to play Silence vs Therapy is probably this: Makes D.R. stronger. At least in my meta Therapys have been strong vs sooo much discard and Blue.Quote:
Originally Posted by Final Fortune
By the moment I'l try the Therapys in Side, but full of them. As said I've fallen in love with Therapy...
Having in mind these things, maybe I post you privately to see options of a Black TES, as said, in my meta ChantingWalk the Oponent is an option, but remote, maybe as remote as Silence + D.R., and because of this I maybe prefer Full of discard package, and then Xantid can come in from Side as you say!. I'll send you my proposed list. This one for sure will have EtW main!
Try reading the primer. For S&T and Reanimator, now that we're back on Xantid Swarm, you could potentially not bring in both Therapies, cut a Silence, or cut an Infernal Tutor to bring in both Swarms. You don't want to overboard protection though. Shardless BUG should be a joke. At most cut a Silence, Ponder, or Infernal Tutor for a Therapy and be sure to play around Engineered Plague if they know what they're doing. Otherwise, just be careful for Mindbreak Trap and roll them.Quote:
Originally Posted by CwaM
My bad, it seems I just missed the show & tell part!
Thanks for the reminder :p
I see that you guys are often siding out a infernal tutor, what the reason of this?
Good job for the rest, primers and discussion are really deep :)
Siding out Infernal Tutor gives you a lot of play options, while making room to side in hate/bounce.Quote:
Originally Posted by CwaM
Example play:
Play some spells
Drop 2 Lion's eye Diamond
Cast burning Wish, respond by cracking the two Diamonds for BBBBBB or BBBRRR
Wish for Infernal tutor, search for Tendrils of Agony or Empty the Warrens
New Report!! Check it out
Also on the primer is a discussion of the percentage differences for having 7 tutors vs. 8 to draw to. The difference is not especially relevant, it gives some room for board cards, and does open up some plays. It's maybe once every 10 or 20 games that being able to Wish for Tutor comes up for me, but it is a thing to watch out for.Quote:
Originally Posted by CwaM
Just got back from GP Straßbourg! I finished 6-3 after loosing the first two rounds. In round 9 I would have pretty much won the game at the third extra turn but then got a gameloss because of a brainfart, so no Day 2 for me... so close :cry: Turns out 10 hours of magic takes a toll on me afterall, not used to playing GPs without Byes anymore!
It was an awesome tournament overall with some very fun matches and interesting decisions. I will write a small report talking about some of my decisions I´m not sure about and some others I´m sure were wrong.
The whole match was very impressive. Stupid Ponder/Brainstorm ~.~Quote:
Originally Posted by NQN
I played the first Trial on friday just for fun and somehow the weekend went better than expected with a lucky top64 finish:
Trial 1
R1 2-0 Goblins
R2 2-0 Grixis Control (top64)
R3 2-0 Merfolk
R4 2-1 Sneak Show
R5 2-0 UWR Aggrocontrol
GP day 1
R1, 2, 3 bye
R4 2-0 Esperblade
R5 0-2 Esperblade
R6 2-1 NicFit
R7 2-0 UW Blade
R8 2-0 Elfen
R9 0-2 Jund (top64)
GP day 2
R10 2-0 Canadian
R11 2-1 Painter mono r
R12 2-0 UB(rg) ANT (JamieW89)
R13 2-0 UB(rg) ANT
R14 0-2 GWr Maverick (Görzgen)
R15 0-2 UW Miracle (Levy)
R16 0-2 Canadian (Estratti)
As usual it was very funny to play TES. Maybe playing more Cabal Therapys next time.
Went X-X at the GP with TES, and my problem matchups this weekend were the UWx decks. Esper, Miracles, etc. It seemed that I just didn't have enough disruption to plow through and Storm to win. I did beat Esper once because I didn't make any mistakes, literally one of the few matches in the weekend that I couldn't recall any bad plays. Basically, Meddling Mage beat me down in all the control matches I lost. Day one there was lots of Jund and BUG/RUG, followed by UW control decks and tribal. Amongst them all were combo decks like Sneaky Show, Storm and Elves. Sort of a hostile environment for Storming it up.
Went 12-3-1 at GP Strasbourg. Being 10th in the last round ... but losing the the final round to Team America (the match was on the live stream), dropping to 21st place.
My matchups were the following:
Trial on friday:
Merfolk 2-0
Goblins 2-0
Canadian 2-0
Merfolk 0-2
Main event:
Tin Fins 2-0
Canadian 2-0
ANT 2-0
BUG Delver 2-1
Canadian 2-0
TES 1-1-1 (should have been 2-0 but I punted big time!)
Stax 0-2 (Thats what you get for dropping to the draw bracket :frown:)
Esperblade with CB 2-1
SneakShow 2-1
Junk 2-0
Shardless BUG 1-2
SneakShow 2-1
EsperBlade 2-0
Canadian 2-1
Shardless BUG 2-1
Team America 0-2
I played a homebrew list. I'm going to write a full report soon.
Hey,
I went to GP Strasbourg aswell and brought TES to it,
it was my first GP I played and the first tournament I played the deck in (out of 1 18-man tournament a few weeks ago) so I wasn't expecting too much.
Still I made a checklist of some goals:
[ ] Reach Day 2.
[ ] Get in coverage so my friends at home could cheer at me ;p.
I didn't made a whole lot of notes since that would've distracted me from actual playing but I'll try a short summary.
Starting with 2 trials on friday to get my last minutes byes.
Trial 1
M1 vs URw Tempo,
I kept a rather slow hand g1, make 14 goblins t3 which don't get there (he's on 1).
G2 I kill him with 12 goblins t1.
G3 he kept a hand of Daze, 2 FOW, 2 Waste, Spell Pierce, Island and draws a Delver before I could fight through all of this (needed to find a 3rd tutor/wish)
Great start.. but oh well..
Trial 2
M1 vs ANT
G1 He starts with discarding my Tutor and ruining my t1 kill. I play out my LED's (3), and try to cantrip into another tutor/wish but I fail to do so. Anyway he goes for Ill-Gotten-Gains, in response I crack 1 LED for white (I had a Silence in hand he knew about..), getting back Tutor, LED, Silence, cast silence and kill him on my turn.
G2 I make t1 12 Goblins (not the greates against combo, but I thought it may be enough), he wishes for Infect and kills all of them we play draw go for a while and he kills me.
G3 I think I had a t1 kill.
M2 vs Dredge by Saito, Tomoharu
G1 He put me on 11 with lethal next turn and after missing with a Therapy on Tutor (which I kept on top after a Ponder) I kill him on my turn.
G2 he get's me to 6 and I go for Diminishing Returns, drawing some mana and Ad Nauseam, go for it from 6, stop on 2 without tutor/wish, cast ponder, shuffle, draw Brainstorm, cast it and find the wish to kill him with Tendrils.
M3 vs UWr Miracles
G1 I can't fight through his counterspells and get beaten down by a Snapcaster while getting fatesealed.
G2 he lands T2 Counterbalance, I'll try to go for it but he reveals another Counterbalance on top of his library.
He plays it, I try again and a top is on top of it.. don't need to say that I lost this game aswell..
After blowing 30€ for trials I thought it's enough and went to have fun with some friends in Strasbourg, driving into some bar in which the waiters worn suspenders and were dancing on the tables..
Saturday:
After sleeping only a few hours I'm a little bit tired but the excitement overwhelms.
M1 Zoo (with 3 Thalia, 2 Teeg main)
G1 he plays's Critter go, I kill him. (Kept a hand which needed just another Mana for the kill, had no land and no cantrip but a probe, my out's were: Ritual, Rite, Land, Mox, Petal) drew another LED and probed into a ponder which got me another ritual).
G2 he starts with an ape, I therapy for Gaddock Teeg hitting 1 and seeing a Mind Break Trap. He draws and plays Teeg, next turn Thalia and I get beaten down.
G3 I start with probe, therapy and getting 2 Teeg's. Making 12 or 14 Goblins t2/3 while he plays some critters, he plays a Thalia later on while my board is some Goblins, 2 Lands and a Chrome Mox, I whish for Grapeshot. I attack him to 1 and lose all my goblins, I'm dead if he draws a fireblast.. he draws bolt, gets me to 1 aswell and I kill him on my turn with Grapeshot for 1 ! (Some seconds later I realised he could've killed me if he chosed to block 1 Goblin with his Lavamancer and shooting me instead of not blocking and shooting a Goblin).
1-0 (2-1)
Nearly lost in the first round against a rather good matchup.. oh crap!
M2 Burn
G1 He get's me to 12, I go for Iggy, miscount, cast Ad Nauseam and kill him.
G2 I have a t2 hand, go for discard t1, see nothing. He topdecks Pirostastic Pillar and kills me.
G3 T2 Ad Nauseam kills him.
2-0 (4-2)
M3 Nic Fit
G1 I want to make some Goblins t1, but with my Probe I see Therapy, Pulse and irrelevant stuff. I draw well with probe and go for Ad Nauseam t1 from 17 and fizzle, but sculpt a hand which wins next turn.
G2 We both mull to 6, he starts with top, I probe him, his hand was Extirpate, Recuring Nightmare, Forest, Kitchen Finks. Again I go for Ad Nauseam t1 with 17 life, again I fizzle hand have to kill him 2 turns later with Past in Flames.
3-0
(6-2)
M4 vs Saito with Canadian
Written Coverage here:
http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazin...gpstr13/day1#5
[X] Get in coverage so my friends at home could cheer at me ;p. (Well not live but hey.. at least)
Haven't read the coverage yet but will after finishing this report.
Edit: Just readig the coverage..under picture of mine he said I didn't win against Saito on friday which is false, what a misscredit ! :P
G1 I mull to 5 and I'm totally psyched and forget to draw after my probe which sees he only had Waste, Pierce and Force to interact with me.. oh crap I'm a fool..
Anyway somewhere in the game I make a mistake (can't remember what it was).. I think some Ponder decision.. anyway I die.
G2 I keep a rather slow hand with 4 Lands so he coulnd't screw me (to keep was a mistake I think) still I get him with a bunch of Goblins since he didn't boarded in his Rough/Tumble.
G3 I'm stuck on a Chrome Mox on blue after he blowed up my only land, all I need is to find another land so I could fight through his double Force, Tumble hand.. I don't.
3-1 (7-4)
M5 BUG-Agent
G1 I make 12 Goblins on t2, getting there.
G2 t1 Discard, t2 Goyf, t3 Clique get him there (I must have kept a rather poor hand for that to happen).
G3 I kill him t1.
4-1 (9-5)
M6 Esperblade
G1 I start with Duress discarding a Spell Pierce and go for it t2, his Brainstorm finds the Force and I die soon to a Batterskull.
G2 We both mull to oblivion, he has something like 3 Lands, Brainstorm. I still fail to win this game, can't remember why but getting beaten down by a Clique.
4-2 (9-7)
At that point I had to win everything..would be pretty hard and didn't even had play against my worst Matchups..urghs.
M7 vs Sneak Show
G1 I sculpt a pretty good hand which could cast Diminishing Returns (while whishing for it he was like.. a 4 mana sorcery which nets me 7 new cards? Sweet for me but what does it do for you?!) with 3 floating next turn, so I silence walk him since he could've played and activated Sneak Attack in his turn.
My turn: Cast Returns, crack LED, get a hand with mana, wish and Ad Nauseam. I want to have a little bit of fun with him so I cast the wish, he responses with Brainstorm, Intuition for Force of Will to counter it, I cast Ad Nauseam and kill him.
G2 I make 18 Goblins on t1 and kill him.
5-2 (11-7)
M8 vs Dredge
G1 T2 Ad Nauseam -> fizzle, t3 kill with Past in Flames.
G2 T1 Ad Nauseam -> fizzle (go to 2 life), I silence walk him, he goes all in on t3 but dredges poorly, just 1 Therapy, 1 Narcamoeba, no Bridges and some Ichorids. T3 I go for Diminishing Returns, fizzle, silence walk him and kill him next turn.
6-2 (13-7)
Wel.. 1 round left.. go to day 2 or punt again and lose?
M9 vs 12-Post
G1 I win the die roll, make 10 Goblins, he draws and scoops.
I sidebord nothing since I didn't see a single card of him.
G2 he starts with Leyline, I make 12 Goblins t2. He gets a Primeval Titan online which gets Glimmerposts to get him back to 19. I Attack again and go all in, cast Ill-Gotten Gains, cast Past in Flames and make another 34 Goblins. He has 1 draw left, he draws the Emrakul he could've hardcast, attacks with Titan to fetch Karakas and loop extra turns.. shit !
G3 I have the option to make 18 Goblins t2 or go t3 for Ad Nauseam.. I punt and did not think of Tabernacle and go for the goblins..
Thanksfully he didn't own a Tabernacle and my little green friends get me there.. (well if he would've played Tabernacle he'd fetched for it g2 so I guess I did not punt entirely).
7-2 (15-8)
[X] Reach Day 2 !
Yeah !
After a long day of Magic, we decided to don't stop there, buying a Display Innistrad and draft a round, I got a sweet Burning Vengeance deck (2 of them, 13 cards with flashback, 2 Unburial Rites and 1 Olivia) but lost 1 Match to GW-Aggro, still was a fun deck to play.
Going to sleep at 3am and stand up at 7 to play for the next day since hey..who needs sleep to play well with storm he?
M10 Elves
G1 He plays some elves, I kill him t2.
G2 I get a warning, since I cast a Chain of Vapor (brought in for Thorn of Amethyst) and noobish said Dryad Arbor instead of another elf which I actually wanted to bounce anyway.. However he kills me t3.
G3 I therapy for MBT t1 and manage to kill him still in this turn, Grapeshot.
8-2 (17-9)
M11 MUD
G1 He wins the die roll, t1 Chalice on 1. Go.
My hand was 2 lands, and 5 Spells with cc1.. t2 Port, Metalworker, t3 Wurmcoil, scoop by me.
G2 he mulls aggresiv to a 6 consisting off Gloem, Trinisphere, Chalice, Revoker, Metalworker, Buried Ruin. I Make 12 Goblins and kill him.
G3 I mull aggresiv trying to get fast hand or at least Abrupt Decay, so I go down to 5 off 2 Lands, 2 Rite of Flame, Chrome Mox.. I thought I'm dead.
He mulls even more aggresiv down to 3 (Monolith, Trinisphere, Chalice) and says go. I draw the Empty the Warrens, make 8 Goblins and ride the to victory !
9-2 (19-10)
M12 BUG-Control
G1 I see a hand of Decay, Jace, 2 Goyfs, Pulse, Usea and Force, bait him to use his Force on wish and kill him next turn with a safely Ad Nauseam from 12 (was aroung t4 I think)
G2 He has 2 Force, Spell Pierce, and I get beaten down by 2 Goyfs before I can fight through.
G3 I see his hand and he has nothing relevant. So I go for it t2, but he drew the force..
9-3 (20-12)
M13 Canadian
G1 I therapy away his Spell Pierce, go for it and get beaten by Brainstorm which finds the Force.
G2 I Therapy away a force and a stifle, make some Goblins and get beaten by Brainstorm which finds the Pyroclasm 1 turn before he dies.
9-4 (20-14)
I have to win everything to get some money.. can I do it?
M14 BUG-Control.
To give it away, I made some huge mistakes.. really..
G1 I have the choice of cast Diminishing Returns t2 with 2 floating or go for 12 Goblins.. I'm afraid of Deed/Pulse cast the DR and fizzle because I'm 1 mana short (I removed all my Useas and the 2 lands I did draw with DR were fetchlands) to cast Ad Nauseam and die.
G2 I make 10 goblins t1 and discard his pulse t2.
G3 He starts with double Wasteland, double Hymn.
I still manage to wish for Past in Flames in case I draw some rituals, which gets discarded by the second Hymn, I wish for Diminishing Returns and sculpt following board:
I have 3 lands and Chrome Mox in Play (2 lands tapped) and put the Returns on top of my library to protect it from discard. I have 1 card in hand, LED. His hand is Daze, Maelstrom Pulse and he has a Goyf in play which beats me.
I cast the LED to protect it from topdecked discard since I need it to play around the Daze.. yep.. I really was that stupid. He destroys it with Pulse (I thought he wouldn't do it since it was his only out against Goblins as he told me). So I was 1 mana short and on a 4 turn clock. My draws: Mox, Mox, Mox.. finally I drew in my very last round a Ritual..but he allready drew a Force.
Bam ! 1 Match, 2 punts so I couldn't place in money anymore..
9-5 (21-16)
M15 Shardless BUG
G1 I make t2 14 Goblins which get there.
G2 He discards my Tutor and extracted it, I pondered into a wish and kill him.
10-5 (23-16)
M16 vs RIP-Helm
G1 I wish for Diminishing Returns to cast it next turn. He has RIP in play. My turn, I silence him, cast DR with 0 floating but a Petal in Play. The first 7 cards are: Tutor, 3 LED, Mox, Petal, Land.. crap ! So I draw into something but am 1 mana to short.. while he drew the helm and kills me next turn.
G2 I kill him t1.
G3 I have a sweet hand without protection, went for 14 Goblins t1 but he has a Force for it, I still have 2 LED's in play which I didn't even had to crack.
Later I whished for Past in Flames but am 1 mana short to kill him on the spot so I do need to wait another turn. He casts Rest in Peace..
I didn't drew into another Wish/Tutor while he lands Clique & Jace. Oh well.
10-6 (24-18)
Which was enough for place 123.
I had some really good matchups day 1 and still didn't did as well as I should, but I'm still trying to learn this deck and think I some good amount of experience after these 2 days. I punted several times to often which sucks, since this way I can't blame bad luck on my loses (ok M13 vs Canadian I can). Still had a ton of fun playing these 2 days and reached both of my goals.. next time I aim for money :p
@ GP folks
16 rounds! For god's sake, I'm too ol' for that.
I could go 16 rounds. Being good enough to day 2 a GP is another issue for me though :/
Quote:
Originally Posted by katakis
Think you might have been my first opponent. Well played, the set up in game 1 hid info and mislead me easily.
It seems like there were a bunch of strange TES / ANT hybrids at Strasbourg. To the people that went - were the successful storm lists mostly ANT, mostly stock TES, or strange amalgamations?
On coverage, I saw Cifka playing a list with 6 discard spells, a bunch of fetches/duals, and Rite of Flame/Burning Wish. It looked awful. I saw a person playing Cabal Ritual, Chrome Mox, and Burning Wish, and that looked awful too.
Isnt the ANT version with BWish called TnT or something like that? Im not sure why or anything...
This is correct. The Burning Wish ANT is sometimes called TNT. Most of the lists and reports I saw were either stock ANT's which fell under the pressure of Thoughtseize/Hymn or these undecided hybrids which use Wish as a toolbox or to fight surgical extraction. The possibility that the name-issue among storm-decks may is another point :/Quote:
Originally Posted by Megadeus
Spoiler: My upcoming report will feature a match vs. 16-cantrip-ANT containing an incredible hulk-up after a game-shattering Wish for Therapy and being dismembered by discard from the start.
Actually I think that's pretty good. I haven't been running Cabal Ritual and Chrome Mox at the same time, but I've tried them both and they both work incredibly well in TES and I could see a split between them in the Mox slot.Quote:
Originally Posted by phazonmuant
TES isn't build to reach threshold in any of it's gameplans. We don't fetch excessive nor chain cantrips to fill the graveyard and Mox/Wish remove cards instead of dumping. In addition Cabal Ritual does more damage off Ad Nauseam, don't act as initial manasource unlike mox and doesn't give you the Double red mana for Wish -> EtW/Grapeshot/PIF.Quote:
Originally Posted by Awaclus
Cabal Ritual is nothing you want in a deck that focuses on Ad Nauseam and Burning Wish
One of these hybrids was played by me.Quote:
Originally Posted by phazonmuant
I played this list:
4 Dark Ritual
4 Rite of Flame
4 Lion’s Eye Diamond
4 Lotus Petal
2 Chrome Mox
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Cabal Therapy
3 Duress
4 Infernal Tutor
3 Burning Wish
2 Empty the Warrens
1 Ad Nauseam
4 Polluted Delta
3 Bloodstained Mire
2 Underground Sea
2 Volcanic Island
1 Badlands
1 Bayou
SB:
2 Tendrils of Agony
1 Empty the Warrens
1 Past in Flames
1 Grapeshot
1 Diminishing Returns
3 Abrupt Decay
3 Dread of Night
2 Thoughtseize
1 Chain of Vapor
However, if you ignore the dual/fetchland manabase this list is quite close to a typical TES build.
Two EtW main? Yes, they are just that good in the current meta with all those blue aggrocontroldecks. Paired with maindeck cabal therapy they are also very good versus most non-blue decks.
Why no Chant/Silence? I expected a lot of SneakShow decks... and in this matchup additional discard is just better then chants, which are mostly useless vs an opponent with 14+ cards.
Okay.
That's enough.
I'm putting that deck together. TES looks simply too fun not to play it.
That's why you can board out the 4 silences for 2 Xantid Swarms and 2 Therapies if you feel that way. Silence in response to Griselbrand (TinFins)/Enter the Infinite is still a thing
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemnear
I really like that line of play.
How can having too many cards in hand be an argument against Chant effects? That's the first I've heard of that. Usually, we consider Chant effects a catch all to blank out more targetted countermagic like Spell Snare, Mindbreak Trap, and Envelop. Usually Discard is the problem because it only removes one counter spell.
Any how, I guess everyone has their playing style.
I think discussing any situation after your opponent draws 14+ cards is rather pointless anyway.
It's like discussing the strength of Stifle post-Ad Nauseam vs. Storm