Re: [DTB] Miracle Control
@twndown
I think you need to compare Wear/Tear and Shattering Pulse. Engineered Explosives services as a catch all for things that cost 3 or less and can kill creatures.
Have not played Shattering Pulse since the days of Type I Keeper as side board against TNT (Tools N Tubbies which was a mostly artifact creature Survival of the fitest deck. Even then Dismantling Blow was the main deck choice because it drew 2 cards if you paid the kicker and could destroy enchantments as well as artifacts.
Shattering Pulse pro
can buy it back for 3 more mana so is good vs decks with lots of artifacts like DnT and Mud provided you can pay 5 mana.
shattering pulse con
can not target enchantments like choke, counterbalance, sulfuric vortex, sylvan library,
Wear//Tear pro
can destroy both artifacts and enchantments
can be a 2 for 1 if have artifact and enchantment
combo's well with counterbalance as both a 1 and a 2 on top.
Wear//Tear con
Can not buy back for 3 mana.
@Zarzab11
Congratulations and Thank you for writting the report.
@Poron
Loss of Blood Moon, Pyroblast and Wear/Tear hurts in other match ups way more then anything black provides. Massacre and Dread of Night are upgrades for Pyroclasm and Izzet Staticaster only in the D+T match up. Pyroclasm and Staticaster are better in other match ups. I do not like Sulfur Elemental because it is a nombo with Mentor.
@Varal
Do you have mountain in your deck to fetch and do you know if the opponent runs Spell Pierce? If they do not run Spell Peirce go with the sure thing and get Explosives.
Re: [DTB] Miracle Control
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Varal
I'd an interesting situation come up, opponent on Esper Deathblade has a lethal Jitte + TNN with Wasteland. I have 2 Islands, Plains, Arid Mesa, Top, 3 life and no cantrip or lifegain in hand. End of his turn, top into Engineered Explosives, Island, Tundra. Do you fetch to find Terminus/cantrip into Terminus or do you draw EE and Island? If so, main phase or end of turn?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Varal
Opponent has a few cards, know nothing about them. We have nothing that can help us survive, No lands, Have StP and Mentor. At 3 life with only 3 basics and 1 Fetch. 3 Terminus left, 0 Council's Judgment, 1 Engineered Explosives.
In any case: your opponent has the initiative, if barely, because you haven't yet made the conditions to stabilize. Any of their threats requires an answer.
Both EE and Terminus don't solve the problem of the threat after the True-Name. However, what you would have to give up to get either one online really depends:
Engineered Explosives
- 100% chance of being cast (all cards are known/held)
- Requires losing your Top
- Uses all of your mana
Terminus
- Less than 20% chance of it being cast (because of the digging and how many Terminus you've already cast)
- You keep your top
- Leaves mana open
- You get to draw the EE for the next threat
In a vacuum, I'd take the risk and go for Terminus because it leaves me with the better board after dealing with the threat. I have a Top in that scenario, whereas I have to mortgage it to cast EE. (Additionally, if I have a counterspell, I might be able to use it if they attempt to counter the Terminus--something I just can't do with EE).
This would all have to be done immediately, as you'd want to cast the Terminus immediately. There's no magical scenario in which your opponent plays something that makes the opportunity better.
I'd go for Terminus: Draw the EE for turn (to deal with the subsequent threat); dig with a U to see if Terminus is the 3rd card down; immediately fetch and dig if it's not.
Re: [DTB] Miracle Control
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Varal
I'd an interesting situation come up, opponent on Esper Deathblade has a lethal Jitte + TNN with Wasteland. I have 2 Islands, Plains, Arid Mesa, Top, 3 life and no cantrip or lifegain in hand. End of his turn, top into Engineered Explosives, Island, Tundra. Do you fetch to find Terminus/cantrip into Terminus or do you draw EE and Island? If so, main phase or end of turn?
The timing here can get kind of touchy, but if you don't fetch and your opponent has an untapped Wasteland in that position and lets you draw for the turn, it's a big punt on their part. As you said, you're dead on board, so you not cracking the fetch implies that there's an answer in your top 3 (you don't have enough mana to worry about you having Predict or multiple cantrips giving you lots of extra looks, and I'd assume they have Pierce in the 75 if they're on Deathblade). Assuming your opponent screws up, I think you're forced to try for the Explosives. There's a fair chance that you can't beat Pierce in that position anyway since you only get to Top once if you don't hit a land drop while looking for Terminus.
Re: [DTB] Miracle Control
For the Predict-Miracle enthusiast, does any of you have ever thanked about Impulse or Peer through Depths instead ? Both dig deeper than Predict.
Impulse is a great tool to "search" an answer.
Peer Through Depths do barely the same, with almost 40% of the cards instants or sorceries
Predict is a very strong card when the set-up is well done. Otherwise, it's just an ok 1for1 draw spell.
Any thoughts about these 2 cards ? Especially Impulse.
Impulse
1U - Instant
Look at the top four cards of your library.
Put one of them into your hand and the rest on the bottom of your library in any order.
Re: [DTB] Miracle Control
Quote:
Originally Posted by
kravkenov
For the Predict-Miracle enthusiast, does any of you have ever thanked about Impulse or Peer through Depths instead ? Both dig deeper than Predict.
Impulse is a great tool to "search" an answer.
Peer Through Depths do barely the same, with almost 40% of the cards instants or sorceries
Predict is a very strong card when the set-up is well done. Otherwise, it's just an ok 1for1 draw spell.
Any thoughts about these 2 cards ? Especially Impulse.
Ponder, BS, and Top deliver more than enough C/Q. Predict is in there for C/A. In the face of the fast meta, it's quasi a replacement of Jace #3&4.
Re: [DTB] Miracle Control
Quote:
Originally Posted by
btm10
The timing here can get kind of touchy, but if you don't fetch and your opponent has an untapped Wasteland in that position and lets you draw for the turn, it's a big punt on their part. As you said, you're dead on board, so you not cracking the fetch implies that there's an answer in your top 3 (you don't have enough mana to worry about you having Predict or multiple cantrips giving you lots of extra looks, and I'd assume they have Pierce in the 75 if they're on Deathblade).
So in that situation, opponent would Wasteland EOT or during the upkeep? I imagine upkeep would be better to allow fewer looks after they fetch.
Re: [DTB] Miracle Control
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Claymore
So in that situation, opponent would Wasteland EOT or during the upkeep? I imagine upkeep would be better to allow fewer looks after they fetch.
If I'm the opponent, I'd definitely want to do this during the upkeep.
If you do it during your end step, they get to see up to 4 new cards: spin Top with the land they got, and then spin Top on their turn and see the next card down.
Additionally, in this situation, I'd be guessing that my opponent was digging for a Council's Judgment or Terminus. (I'm not sure I'd guess my Miracles opponent has EE unless I've seen it).
Because Terminus can be cast on my turn, it's possible that it's in their top 3. By saving the Wasteland until their turn, if they attempt to trigger Terminus at the end of my turn, I can Wasteland the fetch with the trigger on the stack to try and bait my opponent to lose their Top.
Re: [DTB] Miracle Control
This is probably a long shot, but has anyone done any testing with Thalia Heritic Cathar in the main or in the board?
I've been thinking about using her as a replacement for Moon in my SB. I have been noticing a large amount of people cutting the moon completely from their boards and I was thinking of doing the same.
While her effect seems lackluster against lands, I think she would be pretty useful in the D&T, delver and Eldrazi matchups. She can go toe to toe with a large amount of creatures and she slows down the tempo of these decks so that we can establish our ability to control the board. At three mana tho, she does seem like she won't come down early enough to hinder them.
Has anyone done any testing with her?
Re: [DTB] Miracle Control
Have to be really careful putting more creatures into a deck that is inherently anti-creatures.
We aren't really a tax deck so what little tempo we gain will be quickly recovered by the opponent.
Re: [DTB] Miracle Control
Did someone test blessed alliance in miracle's sideboard?
Re: [DTB] Miracle Control
Quote:
Originally Posted by
mainactivenet
For what purpose? Every mode is inferior to existing cards, and paying 4 for 2 effects is just bad.
Re: [DTB] Miracle Control
Quote:
Originally Posted by
mainactivenet
I have not, and probably won't. BUT, I am going to look into options that will help against the UR Bedlam Delver deck. I have had a lot of trouble with it. Blessed Alliance wouldn't be awful in the matchup I guess. And it would be good against Infect and Eldrazi, and playable midgame against non-Pyromancer aggro decks.
Re: [DTB] Miracle Control
Celestial Purge gets rid of the whole UR Bedlam thing.
it also hits Liliana, Deathrite Shaman and Gurmag Angler in other matchups.
Re: [DTB] Miracle Control
Quote:
Originally Posted by
oarsman
I have not, and probably won't. BUT, I am going to look into options that will help against the UR Bedlam Delver deck. I have had a lot of trouble with it. Blessed Alliance wouldn't be awful in the matchup I guess. And it would be good against Infect and Eldrazi, and playable midgame against non-Pyromancer aggro decks.
What about Hydroblast? I feel that trying to deal with Bedlam Reveler after it lands and after they've already drawn 3 cards is a losing proposition.
Re: [DTB] Miracle Control
The new breed of UR delver decks are fairly popular in Toronto and I can say I've never had a problem beating them. I find it very similar to mono red burn in the sense that both burn and UR delver punish clunky hands that require a lot of setup. Postboard I go:
-2 Counterspell, 1 Plains, -3 jtms, -1 Council's judgment, +3 Flusterstorm, +2 wt, +2reb
Postboard I tend to try to protect my life total with flustering random burn spells on a 1 for 1 basis unless I'm trying to get countertop in play. Reveler can definitely be annoying in certain situations but even with that card the whole deck basically folds to countertop. I'd much rather save up answers for him than worry about stuff like Exquisite Firecrafts at the end of the burn rainbow.
Re: [DTB] Miracle Control
say whaaaaaaaat legacy legend bob huang played with miracles? check out the past broadcast https://www.twitch.tv/anzi104/v/91568245 where we play 5 COMBO DECKS the one time I play 3 force of wills
Re: [DTB] Miracle Control
Quote:
Originally Posted by
hyp3r1on
The new breed of UR delver decks are fairly popular in Toronto and I can say I've never had a problem beating them.
UR Delver is an umbrella term. Some variants choose YP/Stormchaser, while another variants might go with Eidolon instead. One should never underestimate the explosive openings of some of these variants involving red. Yes we have plenty of basic, but it is entirely possible your opening just doesn't provide the Mana Base that would make you weak against PoP.
Re: [DTB] Miracle Control
Quote:
Originally Posted by
twndomn
UR Delver is an umbrella term. Some variants choose YP/Stormchaser, while another variants might go with Eidolon instead. One should never underestimate the explosive openings of some of these variants involving red. Yes we have plenty of basic, but it is entirely possible your opening just doesn't provide the Mana Base that would make you weak against PoP.
"new breed" = OlleR's stormchaser/Reveler decks from mtgo I would assume.
Hyperion is also a top 8 gp competitor (and not a bitch).
Re: [DTB] Miracle Control
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Quasim0ff
"new breed" = OlleR's stormchaser/Reveler decks from mtgo I would assume.
Hyperion is also a top 8 gp competitor (and not a bitch).
[citation needed]
Re: [DTB] Miracle Control
Quote:
Originally Posted by
lordofthepit
[citation needed]
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/475054#paper
hyp3r1on made top 8 at GP Columbus.
