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High Tide already is a consistent turn 3/4 deck and it sees no play. Frantic Search doesn't solve any of it's problems. Other decks that use it as a "free" careful study really would just rather use Careful Study or Entomb. It's not 1998 anymore the card is fine
Adds nothing favorable for the format as a whole. Maybe the cloud vine deck would get a new toy, that would be the only positive for me.
This is not an argument against anything. TNN adds nothing favorable to Legacy, that fucker is legal. Hell to be honest, Smokestack adds almost nothing favorable to Legacy and I'm still aloud to abuse it.Quote:
Originally Posted by mistercakes
Is it safe, yes or no? That's all that matters. If they are not banning TNN or SnT for how much they suck to play against, the idea it would not be "Favorable" stops being a effective or impactful approach to reading the list.
Really fun format
First 3 tier 1 deck
Miracle
Ur burn
Blade
4 ponder
4 brainstorm
4 fow
2 jace
Bolt or sword
Tnn or terminus
Some draw card.
Gg
Incorrect, you forgot snapcaster mage.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zulabnar
No. the format is now going to be nothing but Karn.dec vs Karn.dec.
Beat spec pricing on City of Traitors!!a!!!11!!1a!Quote:
Originally Posted by MGB
Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk
So Karn, the Great Creator is really good with Mycosynth Lattice, instant lock just it cost 10 mana to do in one turn. Unless i am missing something and you can accelerate the process.
Ashiok shuts down all the fetchlands and GSZ decks.
To do a turn two Ashiok to effectively slow down your opponnent you need GSZ or BoP, because no DRS.
Some Stifle might be useful also.
But are those locks Legacy power level when you opponent can go Turn 1 Ape and show Emi or reanimate Sire of Sanity.
I am not sure.
A Post mana base.Quote:
Originally Posted by Matsu
Nope, but some prick (read me) already went though his old binders and pulled out his copy of Lattice. So while I don't think the lock is great, it does look like great fun.Quote:
Originally Posted by Matsu
So how fast can you get to 10 mana with Post, I assume the usage of Candelabra, so is turn 3 lock viable?Quote:
Originally Posted by Dice_Box
You will need a Challice on 1 to bypass the cantrip cartel. If this will produce a new deck in legacy or reanimate an Old One. I am all for it.
I think it is still better to die turn 4 or 5 to a properly setup combo/Lock than to draw your hand and die turn 0 to Ape and Show or reanimated Sire of Sanity.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matsu
Metalworker is the answer.
But is this a tier 1 deck? i think a tier 2 maybe.
God no. The reason Eldrazi is so powerful is it both disrupts and forces a clock. That's the trick. A lock with no aggression is just a delaying tactic until you find your win or you die.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zulabnar
It's why Stax is fun but ultimately not a threat to Legacy. Sure I can drop a 5/5 off a Karn to win, but that's normally the plan after I set up a Tanglewire, a 3 ball and a Chalice. What if I get the 3 ball and a Chalice but never find Karn and you get your Angler down? Well... Wish I had replaced that Tanglewire with Smasher now.
When your looking at something like this don't ask, "How good is it" ask "Is there someone locally who will play it despite it being shit?" In my case, yes, yes I will.
I agree.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dice_Box
But after years i'm so tired of playing tier 2 decks.
You don't even need Metalworker. LED just works fine with Karn trigger on the stack to power out Lattice on the follow-up turn. Magical Christmasland is 2x Sol Land, Karn, double LED into T2 Lattice lock.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zulabnar
We'll have to wait and see how the meta shakes out and how the meta adapts, but I wouldn't be surprised if Karn gets banned down the line in a few years. It's power level is unreal. If a card adaption is so fast and widespread in Legacy, that's a good sign that something is wrong.
Not that I'm complaining, between Karn Chalice decks and Narset, cantrip decks are in for a world of hurt.
Turn 1 Ancient Tomb -> Chalice of the Void @ 1Quote:
Ashiok shuts down all the fetchlands and GSZ decks.
To do a turn two Ashiok to effectively slow down your opponnent you need GSZ or BoP, because no DRS.
Turn 2 Interplanar Beacon, Ashiok
Turn 1 Underground Sea, Chrome Mox imprinting a black or blue card -> Chalice of the Void @ 1
Turn 2 land, Ashiok
Turn 1 Ancient Tomb, Dimir Signet
Turn 2 land, Ashiok
Ashiok works best in a SuperFriends Stompy deck, where you can actually curve it out smoothly with other disruption. Karn could fit in the same deck.
Otherwise Karn seems pretty slow outside of a Stax win condition.
I feel like Karn in legacy is just the right power level. In vintage it seems much more busted being a 1 sided null rod in addition to being a wish for restricted artifacts
I think the issue is more that it’s inherently poor design. Why are we putting a 5 mana wish [minus enchant side] on a 4 colorless mana PW. Why isn’t this a 4 mana 1-sided Null Rod, card type artifact with like 1-2 make a wish counters?Quote:
Originally Posted by Megadeus
The one thing I don't like is that it's one sided. I hate asymmetrical effects when they're this powerful.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fox
i will be suprised if a turn 4 lock counterable will be so strong to be banned.Quote:
Originally Posted by Barook
Karn is good. I dunno if I'm going to say "broken" but It's 100% got a place in legacy.
Good. I hope Brainstorm and company rot in hell.Quote:
Originally Posted by Barook
God forbid the format go back to the days where only half of top 8 decks contain the card Brainstorm rather than the current 6/8 or 7/8
I am afraid if this new Karn deck becomes too powerful they will have to ban it just because "everyone loves playing Brainstorm" and "Brainstorm is the pillar of the format". How can you have a deck better than brainstorm deck.
Sad but true.
Ugh.
And I was hoping we could talk about Dark Ritual and Ashiok.
would'nt the dark ritual - Ashiok deck be soft to D&T anyway?
But yes, it seems like a good option :)
I am curious if Ashiok will fit in to a Mill deck in legacy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tylert
I will definitely see a line like this in a permission deck a la Canadian Threshold style:
Turn 1: Fetch-> dark rit-> Ashiok -> use ability on yourself
Turn 2: Land-> Zombie fish -> hold daze/FoW/Stifle or cast ponder.
Might be a cool deck maybe it will revive some sort of Dark Threshold.
Probably just easier to go Rit -> Last Hope -> you have 4 turns before you lose.
Why not both?Quote:
Originally Posted by Fox
Never cutting Hypnotic Specter :tongue:Quote:
Originally Posted by FourDogsinaHorseSuit
Cut more swamps?Quote:
Originally Posted by Fox
Next Monday is the update, any bids? All formats seem poised for a huge shake-up given the cards added from War of the Spark, so I figure no changes. I also think Modern Horizons will have a significant impact on both Modern and Legacy.
I'm quite encouraged by the continuing trend of printing good sets. Dominaria was excellent and only a few sets later we get War of the Spark. There's hope for the long-term health of this game yet.
My one prediction: London mulligan goes into effect. I'm not sure what the deadline/roll-out will be but it likely won't take long, probably effective by 6/1.
Doubt they ban Ancient Tomb this soon, but the new results have made it abundantly clear why it should be watched. Unfortunately WotC seems incapable of banning CB [unban SDT] and ban Hymn [unban DRS].
Yeah, that's my thinking as well. WAR cards, plus new Mulligan means no other actions. Not to mention the impending dump of Modern Horizon cards into the relevant formats.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Safety
Now that one of my decks is finally putting up results I assume bannings are inevitable. Dunno which card will get the axe though, probably the most valuable one so goodbye...Grim monolith.
I think that they should just put all the pieces on a dart board, throw darts, and whatever gets hit gets banned. That makes way more sense than banning Mycosynth Lattice, a game ending lock piece that every karn deck plays.Quote:
Originally Posted by FourDogsinaHorseSuit
Ancient Tomb will never be banned. Ever. Brainstorm has a better chance going first, and it’s been legal since the format was “1.5.”Quote:
Originally Posted by Fox
Are Karn decks really doing so well that tomb/monolith need the axe?
Of course it is an over-reaction to something that has been legal for less than a month. The meta has hardly even adopted it, let alone adapted to it. It's just the usual sort of knee-jerk reactions we are accustomed to though.Quote:
Originally Posted by Megadeus
No, but as someone who got their deck banned over and over again in modern I have just resigned myself to the inevitable. I look at the deck, find the card that fits into the most other decks, and ban it. SPLASH!Quote:
Originally Posted by Megadeus