[Deck] The Rock

Agreed. Moxen MAY be great, but are definitely wildly inconsistent. If the deck was set up properly for a 4 Mox Diamond build, it'd be fine, but it's not. Cutting another 3 slots to fit the 2 lands and 1 Mox Diamond seems terrible. It was terrible with Aggro Loam in a way (it was always dicey), and it's not so great now.

I'm just fine with going turn 1 Discard into turn 2 anything. But, I will agree it helps against Wasteland and Port, but at that point, you're usually dead on board anyway (1 Mox Diamond isn't going to turn a situation of Wastelock or 2-4 Ports online into a winning situation).

-Matt

So just got back from a small tourney here, I went 2-2 drop out of a 5 Rnd Swiss.

List:
Creatures: 13
4x Dark Confidant
4x Tarmogoyf
3x Phyrexian Negator
2x Knight of the Reliquary

Sorcery: 13
4x Thoughtseize
4x Hymn to Tourach
2x Maelstrom Pulse
3x Vindicate

Instant: 3
3x Swords to Plowshares

Planeswalkers: 1
1x Elspeth, Knight-Errant

Enchantment: 2
2x Pernicious Deed

Artifact: 6
3x Sensei's Divining Top
3x Mox Diamond

Lands: 22
4x Verdant Catacombs
4x Marsh Flats
3x Bayou
1x Savannah
1x Scrubland
1x Swamp
1x Plains
1x Forest
4x Wasteland
1x Nantuko Monastery
1x Maze of Ith

Sideboard: 15
3x Pithing Needle
2x Ethersworn Canonist
3x Qasali Pridemage
3x Extirpate
2x Diabolic Edict
2x Krosan Grip

I know, wtf Phyrexian Negator? Honestly, he was a hit for me today. In the world of control and combo, true aggro is not much of a force lately. Bold, I know, but I went into a tournament meta-game that was unknown. I felt he would be good either way, could S/B out vs Goblins, Zoo and Red Burn. We need to put a clock on some of our opponents while we try to slow them down, he fills this role. With Moxen, it's possible for us to take a hit w/ Negator, sac all lands and feed your Knight. I feel he deserves a spot back at this time.

5 rounds, I dropped after 4th.
Rnd 1: Mike - Bant-NOPro
0-2
I just lost bad both rounds. I wasn't able to establish any control and lacked discard. First game I was able to Waste him 3 turns in a row, leaving me G/W in play. I proceed draw nothing of use. 2 of my Dark Confidants were STPed away. He was able to recover and establish control.
0-1
I forgot what I S/B for this match.
The second game I started with Thoughtseize which showed me (2x Swords to Plowshares, 1x Submerge, 1 Fetch, 1x Tropical Island, 1x Brainstorm, 1x other). Needless to say, I didn't draw a second black land source as he proceeded to remove any creature I played and I straightout lost.

Rnd 2: Bye
No notes here
1-1

Rnd 3: Jerry - Affinity
2-0

He won the draw, played first and proceeded to go "Seat of the Synod, Mox Opal, Ornithopter, Memnite, Arcbound Ravenger, go." O.o I dropped Flats and passed. He drew, played Great Furnace and another Arcbound Ravenger. LoL, this is where he played bad. He swung with Memnite and Ravenger. I fetch for a Scrubland, StP his Ravenger. He sacs all but land to give his Memnite +4/+4 from his second Ravenger. I take the 5 as he gains 2 for his StP'd Ravenger. My turn, draw, play a land, pass. He draws, swings for 5.
I go to 9 and draw for my turn. Land, Pulse, Pass. He draws and plays another Opal, pass. I drop Negator and go to town.
1-0
S/B +3x Pridemages, 2x Krosan Grip, -3 Negator, -1 Elspeth, -1 other (forget)
He drops a land and Opal, passes, I draw discard, wasteland, and establish full control over the game, even getting around to Deed'ing for 3 to end it.
2-0

2-1 record, still in it. My first rnd opponent was 3-0, good signs.
Rnd 4: Paul - Bant - NOPro
First was a close one, I almost beat him out but totally messed up on a play where I had a Nagator on the field, 2x Waste and a Scrubland, he had 2x Trop. Island and Noble Heirarch. So I am totally oblivious to where had 1 Trop untapped and I proceeded to StP his Hierarch which meets Spell Pierce. FAIL! Then after it dawns on me, I take out both his Trops with my Wastes and swung for 5. He recovers with a land and goyf. I draw, drop a goyf myself, hold back on Negator b/c goyf were 4/5s. He drops another land, Jitte and equips his gofy with it. From there I just don't see any more removal and he takes my goyf with Sower of Temptation. GG

S/B stuff for other stuff
I make a bad judgement call of keeping a 1 land hand with Top. I drop a top and pass. Go, I spin the top, getting 1 more top and crap. Pass . . . draw spin for Mox and Land, take the land and see nothing else to help as I never got into the game.

2-2

My chances are shot, figured I'd bail and go eat, moving on with rather distasteful results.

I went to the tournament still unsure if I should play Combo-Elves, Zoo or Junk and went into the unknown meta. I figured I'd pan out better with the meta-predator and go Junk.
There were 27 players, saw some Dredge, ANT, Bant, Combo-Elves, Burn, Merfolk, and Zoo. I was the only rock to my knowledge. Bant was the most played deck from what I saw.

Sorry I was not more detailed, first tournament in a LONG time.

Finished 5th at a 53 man in Los Angeles. I walk away with 2 jaces for my troubles. Heres a quick report

List
4 Marsh Flats
3 Verdant Catacombs
3 Scrubland
2 Bayou
1 Forest
1 Swamp
1 Plains
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Maze Of Ith
1 Karakas
1 Sejiri Steppe
4 Wasteland
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Dark Confidant
4 Knight of the Reliquary
2 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Thoughtseize
4 Hymn To Tourach
4 Swords To Plowshares
3 Mox Diamond
2 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Vindicate
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
qty: 60

Sideboard
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
2 Extirpate
2 Duress
3 Pernicious Deed
2 Engineered Plague
1 Bojuka Bog
2 Krosan Grip

Round 1 Mark playing Bant w/ Green sun (2-1 win)
G1: His early wasteland sets me back on mana and I stumble on lands while struggling to keep up with his board presence. After staring at his 2x goyfs and knight, I scoop when he forces my goyf
G2: I am able to thoughtseize and hymn his early action while my goyfs and knight go to town and he can't keep up
G3: Very close game and back and forth the whole way. His board is once again 2x goyfs to my empty board with just a sword of fire/ice. I resolve a goyf while he matches with a knight. I rip my own knight and resolve it. THe turning point here is when I swing in with my equipped goyf and he double blocks with 1 goyf and a knight. I show him swords for the blowout and I slowly creep back and take the match

Round 2 Peter playing MonoBlue Merfolk (0-2 loss)
G1: I decide to not play around daze and get crushed for it, he dazes my turn 2 goyf and turn 3 knight. I have little else going on as I am struggling to find land while he continues to drop lord after lord. He makes quick work of my life total
G2: His double wasteland has me yet again struggling to find mana sources, while his 2 vials slowly tick up to start vomitting out dudes. His board is double reejerey, adept, cursecatcher. I try to pulse his reejerey which meets a fow in his end and thats all she wrote

Round 3 Kevin playing Next Level Thresh (2-1 win)
G1: His stifles keep me off mana for a couple turns but I am able to resolve a knight turn 5. He goes jace, bounce knight, and basilisk collar to compliment his Lavamancer he played earlier. I fail to find a swords to deal with it and I can't deal with jace's card advantage
G2: I am able to thoughtseize and hymn his good stuff and a simple goyf goes to work on his life total
G3: We play draw go early on and I keep playing lands. My hand starts to get stacked so I test the waters. Some of my creatures get countered, but he doesn't have enough answers when I eventually resolve a goyf and a Knight. I proceed to waste him out of the game. There was a point where he tried to sower my knight and I knight'd up a sejiri steppe which needless to say he was surprised by

Round 4 Chase playing Rb Goblins (2-0 win)
G1: He is on the play and mulligans. He opens on lackey so I play a thoughtseize on my T1 to see what hes got. 2 Matrons, 1 Lackey, 2 Land. I take a matron and pass. He connects with lackey, drops a matron searches for piledriver and plays it. I play stoneforge for a jitte and pass. He gets in for quite a bit of dmg as I dont have swords, but the jitte eventually takes over the game and he can't deal
G2: He has no vial or lackey turn 1, where I have a turn 1 top and top into Bob and double plague. He has no answer for the enchantments and the game was over

Round 5 Alex playing BUG Control (2-0 win)
*Alex is my teammate and it sucks we have to play eachother. We both know drawing here is bad for both of us so we have to play it out. An important note here is that Alex decided to cut all his standstills for tops for this tournament, but when we tested this matchup, standstill really put this match in his favor
G1: Hes on the play and just lays a land and passes. I thoughtseize him to see counterspell, force, lands. I take the counterspell. I try for bob on turn 2 which resolves, but he ripped an innocent blood in those 2 turns to handle it. My hymns keep him off good stuff for a bit. I knew he had a force in hand so I tried Elspeth. He forced it removing a jace but didn't seem very happy. It was probably his only action, so my follow up of goyf and Knight were too much for him to deal with
G2: Again I thoughtseize and see slow hand and take his jace. I resolve a stoneforge for sword of f/f soon after which starts to peck away at his life total and his hand. He tries to race me with his 2 factories but I have no wastelands in site. I rip back to back vindicates to deal with it and now he needs to answer my board pressure. He doesn't find anything and I wrap it up

Round 6 Liam Kane playing T.E.S (2-0 win)
*My hearts sinks when I find out I get paired against Liam last round. This is the same Liam that just top4d the SCG LA open. I ask if hed like to draw because I for sure sneak in with a draw here. However his breakers aren't good enough and he might finish 9th or 10th if he draws, thus we need to play it out
G1: He's on the play =/ but I open on hymn, hymn, scrubland, waste, bob, mox diamond, pulse. If I dont die turn 1 I hope my hymns disrupt him enough. I am soon greeted by a turn 1 Empty the warrens for 12. I didn't freak because I have the pulse in my hand but I need to rip a land to play it on turn 2. I draw for turn (knight) *crap*, play scrubland and pass. He bashes for 12 and says go. I knock my deck and use up my "one time" for the day and I draw wasteland! I play my first wasteland, mox diamond and pitch the second and play pulse on his guys. My hymns then keep him off cards for a comeback and my goyfs finish off the job
G2: Started off alot better for me when he just ponders on turn 1. I thoughtseize him to see a bunch of mana spells and I take his LED. I follow it up with hymn to nab more mana spells. He then has a small empty the warrens for 6. I resolve a goyf and chump for a bit and it gets to a point where he needs to start chumping my goyfs and knights to not die. I extirpate him to make sure theres no upset here and he scoops it up.

Phew, that was nerve wracking but I finish the swiss 5-1 and I'm the 2nd seed in the top8. The rest of the top 8 was Mono Blue Merfolk (my 2nd round opponent), URW Burn, Rock w/o stoneforge (played by Shai Shaham who top4d the SCG Open in San Jose), White weenie tempo, Epic Storm piloted by someone else, Elves Combo, and BUG Control.

Quarter Finals Pierre playing URW Burn (1-2 loss)
Pierre is a great guy, very friendly and courteous. This is his first legacy tournament.
G1: He doesn't have much action as I get a quick stoneforge for jitte which accompanies the sword of f/i I had. He scoops soon after
G2 and G3: He does what burn decks do and just goes to town. I wasn't able to find the jitte or the discard effects fast enough and I lose in a quick manner

I end up in 5th place and walk away with 2 Jaces. I am still pretty excited to still get jaces at 5th place. All in all, this is the first time I've sleeved up rock for a legacy event, and I think I will continue to do so. Thanks for reading

Glad to see you enjoyed it!

Interesting list. How'd you find Mox Diamonds?

Glad to see a victory versus Goblins, I guess they can't always quad wasteland their opponents :P

-Matt

i would be interested in the rock-build without the stoneforge mystics, does anyone have the list? i just want to see if it is a completely standard list with moxen or if there are some nice tricks in it

Quote:

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Originally Posted by tgDC$

Finished 5th at a 53 man in Los Angeles.

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DUDE! Where did this tournament happen? I moved to LA pretty recently and I have been DYING to find a good card shop with some people who actually know what they're doing. Plus, I want some consistent tournament action. Searching around for tournaments and shops on the internet has turned up next to nothing for me. Seriously, the first LA card shop that figures out how to make themselves Googleable is going to make a killing.

Also, congrats on the finish.

Indeed, very interesting list. Stoneforge Mystic serves the deck another option to abuse the Mox on turn one and the fetchable Jitte might improve our painful matchup against goblins yet in game one even though I'd like to see the Sword of Fire and Ice being a Sword of Light and Shadow as we run no flying creatures and protection W is balls in legacy, the additional lifegain isn't that bad too, especially in this deck. It also provides you an opportunity to reccur against those controldecks with a massive amount of sweepers and counters which is very useful as the deck's threat density is rather low. Sure, SoFaI will also wreck goblins if you can achieve some hits with it, but jitte is does that too and can negate our massive lifeloss. If you replaced the sofi with solas, stoneforge mystic would become a reliable answer to 2 matchups which you encounter fairly often in these days in my opinion ( Aggro falls to Jitte, Control (landstill, cb, random B-pile to solas ).

Besides, I think that the deck's need of cardquality isn't saturated with 2 Tops. This version of Rock gets into the topdeck stage very quickly as you run a massive pile of discard and Mox Diamond. actually, I have even added the 4th to prevent these situations in which you have to rely on luck and you have got a great number of cards which optimize the use of top ( 8 fetchlands, 4 knights ).

@sdematt- I did like the small tempo gain that mox diamond gave. I didn't mention in my report but couple times I had an unanswered turn 1 bob or turn 1 top plus an eot spin. I think I will continue to go with a build that uses mox diamonds

@Aggrosteve: Shai Shaham top8d the same tournament using a rock list without stoneforge, the list he used was the following. He went 4-0 in the swiss and drew the last 2 rounds for top8. He is a very solid player and consistently top8s tournaments here in LA. He proceeded to lose to white weenie in the quarters I believe.

4 Tarmogoyf
4 Dark Confidant
4 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Thoughtseize
1 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Hymn To Tourach
3 Vindicate
2 Pernicious Deed
3 Mox Diamond
4 Swords To Plowshares
3 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Wasteland
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Marsh Flats
3 Scrubland
2 Bayou
1 Swamp
1 Forest
1 Plains
1 Karakas
1 Maze Of Ith
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Path to Exile
qty: 60

Sideboard
3 Duress
3 Gaddock Teeg
2 Perish
1 Pernicious Deed
2 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Path to Exile
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
1 Diabolic Edict

@Derm- The shop that hosted this is called Knightware. They are pretty much the best shop here in LA for legacy events. Lori (the owner) always posts up her tournaments in the tournament announcement section so just keep an eye out. Another new shop that has hosted a couple successful events is Melrose Music and Comics who posts their tournaments there as well.

I've been trying to get ahold of Lori forever to give me feedback for MOTL, but she hasn't replied yet :P

-Matt

I don't have a lot of free time to test, but if there is someone who has tons of time and really tests the deck....

I am currently still trying to figure out.. the advantages and disadvantages of mox....

So far if the meta is slower than usual, I do not see the need for moxen...
Moxen also smoothes out the mana which smooths out the deck ...

Ive been playing against zoo, and still have the same match up.. However if I am using non moxen, I dont go for deed as much since I find it slow with no moxen...

How ever if there is anyone who can really test moxen builds against non moxen builds... If you can supply ample data on which match ups moxen builds would have an advantage over non moxen builds.
I would greatly appreciate some hard(real) data on match ups and which match ups that moxen actually help...

I think the real way to test is this: run cards in the Moxen's place (run them as flex slots). See how many times you'd rather it be, say, Path to Exile or a Moxen. Run your gauntlet and grind a few hundred games.

Once my exams are over, I plan to do just that, again.

-Matt

Quote:

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He proceeded to lose to death and taxes in the quarters I believe.

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More White Weenie than Death and Taxes. No Mangara/Wisp/Karakas tricks. Same guy that made top 16 at SCG Los Angeles.

First game I made a misplay that cost me three life(and saved him a ton). I had three mana open with Deed on the board, he had 2 creatures and an ORing with my Knight. I forget about the Oring so I spin the top instead of just cracking Deed for three, losing 3 life and a lot of tempo from not getting my Knight/using next turn to Deed. After a while of a lot of back and forth, he finishes me off with four Hawks before I can get my one STP left to remove my Knight.

Second game he mulled to six showing STP/Path/needle/lands off a TS. I take Needle and he topdecks a Weathered Wayfarer. I try to slowroll my lands while he gets wastes, and I don't draw other lands to make up for the ones I lose staying on Swamp/Plains when Deed for one would have wiped him off the board. He slowly kills me with 1/1s while a Maze slows him down. I draw 4 STPS and 1-2 Paths and every other card imaginable other than a green land. I sideboarded out my Moxes ironically, I wasn't going to but at last second I switched the Moxes out instead of other stuff. Lawl. This is why you run Moxes people. And don't misplay...


EDIT:
I find it funny that any other card from my opponent beside a Wayfarer and the game would have been completely different. Never seen a Wayfarer do so much.

What do you guys think about Mental Misstep? Not necessarily to play, but to play against?

-Matt

I won't really worry about it, as it does not effect us much. Combo protected by misstep may be a problem though, as it can take apart our thoughtseizes/ tops as we scramble to find disruption. Zoo with misstep can easily blow past out late game CA. T1 steppe/necatl protected by misstep? Scary!

mental misstep is indeed a scary card to play against, specially in combo decks... i did not think of zoo though, but more of team america probably using it

I don't think decks like zoo and goblins can play it as due to the fact that their deck is pretty tight. I think tempo decks like thresh and team america will skeet all over that card as control players well too. The card is amazing but I don't think the card will affect rock that much. I am looking forward to see how that card changes t he format.

I'm honestly not looking forward to seeing this card. Another free counterspell? Ugh.

However, I wouldn't mind using it to stop a T1 Lackey/Nacatl...

-Matt

i was just reading in other threads as i realized that maybe that card will allow countertop to become stronger again, since their mainproblem vial could be solved by mental misstep, actually i am thinking of adding mental misstep in my countertop thopter list (deck is mainly for fun.... ROCK is my only real pet-deck^^)

i believe for us marrow shards could be quite a nice card against goblins as well against empty the warrens tokens.... at least i find the card to be one of the few cards of the new set we can use

I played in our GPT today for RI. I spent the last week preparing and tweaking my Junk deck. I finished in 2nd and never lost a game. I am beyond excited. I conceded to my opponent in the finals as he had plans to go to the GP already, and it was doubtful that I could go. We still played out for fun and I won 2-0. Below is the updated deck list which I doubt I will change and a updated sideboard. I'll do a mini write up as well for the rounds I sorta of remember.

Deck.
4 Wasteland
4 Marsh Flats
3 Verdant Catacombs
2 Swamp
1 Plains
1 Forest
3 Scrubland
2 Bayou
1 Volarth's Stronghold (amazing!)
1 Karakas
1 Maze of Ith

3 Mox Diamond
2 Umezawa's Jitte (amazing!)
3 Sensei's Divining Top

4 Dark Confidant
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Knight of the Reliquary

4 Thoughtseize
4 Hymn to Tourach
3 Vindicate
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Pernicious Deed

Sideboard
3 Duress
3 Leyline of Sanctity
3 Engineered Plague
3 Krosan Grip
1 Nature's Ruin
1 Perish
1 Pernicious Deed

Quick few notes about my changes from my original list
I cut 1 fetch for another swamp. In testing I just felt like I needed another basic swamp. The Stronghold was simply a much better functional land verses horizon canopy. We don't run a lot of monsters and being able to recur them is so freaking nice. It also makes having the 2 main deck Jittes worth a lot more value over the game. I was very disappointed with the main Gerrad Verdicts so thats what I cut for the Jittes, and I do not regret it at all. I also cut 1 Vindicate for an additional Deed in the main as it presented me more outs in a variety of different situations.

On the sideboard I was very disappointed with extripate and edict so I took them out. With the rise in combo I put in the white leylines and due to my meta I fit in the green (elf) hate.

Write up from what I can remember:

Esper Caw Blade
This wasn't really a fair match, but the opponent was very nice. Thoughtseize, hymn, wasteland, and vindicate kept the deck off it's manabase. A bob with a jitte ate any of the 2 different critters they had.
Game 2 I went +3 duress and -2 deed, and -1 sword. Game 2 was much the same as game 1.

Burn
He started out fast getting me down to 10 quick. However I landed a 4/5 Goyf with a Jitte. Got a 2 counters on it and that quickly sealed the game. He was able to burn out the goyf even with the pump which was fine with me (keeping the heat off the dome) however I was holding a stronghold, and just brought him back to get the W and keep my life up with the Jitte.

Game 2 I went +3 Leyline, +3 Duress -3 Vindicate -2 Deed - 1 thoughtseize
He went down to 5 I think, and like a champ I had the leyline in my opening hand. That alone really sealed up the game. All I remember was like turn 3 he resigned to having no outs and scooped.

Dark Depths Combo
Game 1 we went back and forth a little with disruption. I was able to keep him off his combo pretty easily with the discard spells. At one point I was sure he had the combo and was ready to execute it on his next turn. His hand was full, and I resolved a hymn grabbing 2 dark depths. Woot! This put the game back in my favor. I finally dug into a Knight who by this point of the game was 6/6. He had 3 depths and 2 hexmages in the GY and it was looking grim that his combo would come up. I won.
Game 2 I took out -3 Vindicate -2 Jitte and + 3 Leyline + 2 duress. He had the some of the sac cards to deal damage, and way more discard spells.
He went down to 6 and I kept with a opening Leyline again. He sunk down into his chair and said he shouldn't have kept the hand now. It was 2 lands, and multiple discard spells. This game went much faster as he couldn't target me with anything to disrupt my hand, and all I had to do was basically save a swords for the end of the combo. I was able to pick out the combo pieces slowly and a large goyf got there.

Painted Stone (finals)
He was going to the GP already and I probably wasn't. I conceded but we played it out for fun and the experience. From earlier matches I knew he was almost running the stock LA list. I won the roll which was major in this game. I was able to stay 1 turn ahead of him, and my discard was able to keep him off the game. I saved my wastelands and vindicates for his manabase. Keeping him off his volcanic islands was key. I saved swords for the welder so my discard wouldn't backfire on me allowing him to change out a top for a painter or grindstone. Bob hit the board on turn 4 with a Jitte. I was able to get the Jitte to 4 counters quickly and that prompted a scoop as he could never land a painter and keep it as a result.
The side was +3 duress, +3 leyline, - 1 jitte -2 deed - 1 swords - 2 throutghseize ( i had him on the show and tell into emerkal side plan from earlier rounds), I decided to bring the leyline in just in case he kept the painted combo in as well.

Game 2 was me on draw. I was able to keep him off the combo very early on. He would have had the won turn 2 but I swords away the painter in play. He called having a grindstone on the top of his library, which was cute. He tried to protect his hand with force, but was pitching away useful spells on 2 different occasions that I thought he probably wanted to keep. I think both times it was intuition into force. About 7 turns into the game my hand was Karakas, Jitte, Swords, Marsh Flats, and Hymn. He had 6 and I don't remember what he had. I casted the Hymn and it got misdirected to my face. I thought I was going to lose, because if he was able to hit the Karakas I was in trouble. I figured he was close to show and tell. The die was nice to me and he grabbed a swords and a jitte. I finally landed a beater with Stronghold backup, and kept the Karakas in hand in case he got the show and tell off. Thankfully the combination of a goyf and stronghold won it for me.

That's what I recall from today with any good memory. I was super stoked about not dropping a single game today. I love having Stronghold over canopy any day of the week. It makes the deck much more stable, and makes jitte such a stronger play in this deck. The white leyline is just nuts as it turns off almost every combo against you, turns off decks with a strong discard suit (good in the mirror), and shuts down burn which is difficult without the jitte's already. All in all very happy, and glad I didn't stop playing Junk after my first disappointing showing a few weeks back at a SCG open.

Rock's in Top 8.

-Matt