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I usually just run out Vendilion Clique whenever I get it at the end of my opponents turn. How do you all run it out? I could see playing it in response to Jaces brainstorm ability, when you are going to play jace next turn and in response to miracle trigger also good plays.Quote:
Originally Posted by rxavage
Clique is one guy and 2 girls - artist prolly had some threesome right before drawing it.Quote:
Originally Posted by rxavage
Hey Kobe, Ha I see your off of the Mavrick thread. Isn't that like a cardinal sin for you?!:laugh: I'm a fan of both decks as well. I'm definitely on board with you on Spaeth's list being the best direction for this deck to head. In playtesting, I found that the list he ran is pretty tight. The only change i'm thinking of making is one stoneforge for another snapcaster, since I hate drawing into multiples late game. What changes have you made in your testing?Quote:
Originally Posted by Koby
I am unsure if I should play Reid Dukes or Koby Speths list. I don`t have Vendilion Cliques and Volcanic Islands and also only 3 Jaces - which list should I choose what can I replace those cards with? :-)
Just use a single basic mountain and Tarns. 3 Jace is fine. I wouldn't play Duke's list if tribal is a presence and Batterskull or Jitte just win games.
I took down a 37 ish person tourney in eastern Iowa today with UWb Miracles. Beat Goblins 2-1, uwg SFM Cb/Jitte/Noble/ Pridemage deck 2-0, Omnishow 2-1, lost to BG Bob 2-1, beat Bw control 2-0, Omnishow 2-0, the Rug in the quarters 2-1, Omnishow 2-0, then Omnishow 2-0 in the finals. The list was really sweet and gave me a big lift g3 against RUG when I made a really awful play g1 on a Brainstorm.
They're triplets... gross!Quote:
Originally Posted by dunkle_stille
Is it similar to the list posted by the person who got 9th at Gp Ghent? Been looking at a few miracle builds posted, and I already have the mana base for UWb (from esperblade).Quote:
Originally Posted by Shawn
Very similar to the one that lost in the quarterfinals of that GP. The discard was very good against the combo decks. The game losses besides g1 against Goblins and g3 against Bg were all to to misplays- against my first OmniShow opponent I cast Jace the turn after he resolved Show and Tell into Omniscience with no gas and I Brainstormed with Jace instead of fatesealing and he ripped the Emrakrul. Against Bg I made a horrible attack and against Canadian I messed up a Brainstorm. :/
I don't have Scalding Tarns either :-(Quote:
Originally Posted by rxavage
In the last tournament I played against Reanimator, Show&Tell, Esper Stoneblade, Goblins, Zoo, so I guess tribal is not used so often.
Is there something I can replace the Clique with or do I not come around buying them? :-)
Not having Cliques isn't really a big deal. I've played control decks without it all the time. Just play some more cantrips, removal, Vedalken Shackles or snapcasters instead of them. I'd probably opt for Shackles or removal given the high number of aggro decks out there at the moment.
If you're going to play the deck, you should get all the cards for it. There's a reason people play them and it's because they're the best at what they do.
Nothing is Really going to fill in the role of Clique in control and combo match ups, but more Snapcaster Mages and counterspells are similar in terms of spell trades only.Quote:
Originally Posted by kirdie
Tarn isn't needed. Four Strands and any combination of blue fetches are fine.
Went a disappointing 2-2-1 before dropping yesterday at a 79 person event. Beat death and taxes then aggro loam. Proceeded to draw with Green Eldrazi ramp after punting the win, lost then to merfolk and esperblade while on tilt and continued making the wrong decisions.
Still using the 9th place Ghent list, although I cut a cage from the side for a ghostly prison to help with goblins and folk.
Clique is the NUTS in the deck. Responding to vial activations or stoneforge activations or even fetchland activations swing games. The information in the control matchups is vital to let you know when to resolve CB or Jace and many are forced to decide on whether or not to bring in sideboard cards or leave in not very useful removal. If they don't leave it in, the 3/1 will go the distance while protecting the rest of your deck
5-1-2 at SCG Denver with the following list:
(apologies for sloppy language/grammar this was done while at work)
*** Main Deck ***
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Relic of Progenitus
4 Sensei’s Divining Top
3 Counterbalance
1 Oblivion Ring
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
2 Counterspell
3 Spell Pierce
4 Swords to Plowshare
3 Terminus
2 Entreat the Angels
3 Jace, The Mind Sculptor
2 Snapcaster Mage
1 Trinket Mage
4 Islands
2 Plains
1 Karakas
1 Mystic Gate
4 Flooded Strand
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Tundra
2 Wasteland
*** Sideboard ***
1 Terminus
1 Tormod’s Crypt
2 Path to Exile
1 Counterbalance
1 Humility
1 Moat
1 Disenchant
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Vendillion Clique
1 Snapcaster Mage
1 Spell Pierce
1 Oblivion Ring
*** MINI REPORT ***
Round 1: 0-2 MUD
(hardcasting 2 Sundering Titans via Cavern of souls)
Round2: 2-1 RUG
(game 3 my mainphase attempt at terminus for the win FAILS but my opponent was leaving and conceded :smile: dodged a bullet there)
Round 3: 2-0 Omni-Rector
(G1 terminus Emrakul, G2 S&T -> Humility)
Round 4: 2-1 RUG
(CB locks out Game 1 and Moat locks out Game 3)
Round 5: 1-1-1 Dredge
(Preboard trinket package almost got there game one. Sided out Angels for post board games, resulting slow play. Turns end with opponent at 3 life with no graveyard and no hand against my board of relic, trinket mage, and snapcaster. I have a surgical extraction in hand. No concession because we can still maybe top eight if we win out. I NEED to play a little faster)
Round 6: 2-0 Legacy Soulsisters (?!)
A few Terminii for many 4+ for 1 both games
Round 7: 1-1-1 Maverick
(A slower player with two draws already looking to win out to make top 8 just like me.
I kept a hand without path b/c I thought she was U/W with two draws already and an early unanswered Thalia slows me too much. Game 2 Jace Ultimates. 5 Minutes less, we shuffle up for game three, a bunch of people are watching and she is complaining about how its gonna be a draw and that I should concede and I am starving. I get the early draw I need to win but perform at least 2 huge punts to leave her at 2 life after turns. Obviously no concession here. I didn't deserve it b/c of slow sloppy play and many many critical errors.)
Round 8: 2-0 UWr Miracles/Stoneforge similar to Kobie Spaeth's list
(A few timely Teminii destroy the aggressive Stoneforge starts. I resolve CB/Top Jace wins)
19th place 5-1-2 (12-6-2)
Overall Comments:
*Getting two draws with the win on board the next turn demonstrates the need to play fast AND technical at the same time.
*Loved everything about the entire 75... although the three cards in the trinket mage package were the least trilling 3 cards in the main deck but still carried their weight.
*Might need another 2cc spell main deck for CB/Top
*Still not sure about Entreat the Angels against Tribal/Burn. Stoneforge/Batterskull is likely much better there.
*Always can play faster without compromising the quality of your play
I'm pretty sure those 3 slots should be filled with more copies of our core bombs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Razorwynd
I think so too, but it's tough to find one that pulls its weight in the MD. (well despite SCM #3 and CB#3)Quote:
Originally Posted by Razorwynd
With 4 MD Termini you should be fine against creature-based strategies. If you're facing Burn a lot, I guess just add more CBs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Razorwynd
By that do you mean EtA and Terminus?Quote:
Originally Posted by klaus
Hopefully an Azorious Charm from the new block will be 2cc and decent like the Izzet Charm. This is one thing that adding Stoneforge Mystic to the deck helps... What about the new 1/3 from M13?Quote:
Originally Posted by klaus
Speaking of 2cc...Any thoughts on the new Izzet Charm? (http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/attac...1&d=1346042458)
It's definitely overcosted for any one of the abilities, but I think in the legacy meta having a card that is good against both unfair decks and aggro is incredibly valuable. It requires a red splash, which is a significant downside, although it might be playable as a 1-2 of. Don't have a ton of time right now for extended thoughts, but I thought I would throw it out there fore people to think about.
I could see people testing it out over 1 Spell Pierce, but after it rotates out of standard, I think people will just forget about it, sort of like esper charm...Quote:
Originally Posted by Valtrix
I'm considering running this deck. I'm not sure whether to include the Stoneforge Mystic package or the Counterbalances maindeck, since I hate clunky cards, but I can't deny their power.
A few questions about bad matchups:
- How do you prevent Merfolk and Goblins (with Cavern of Souls) from crapping all over you, since Counterbalance, Spell Pierce, and possibly FoW are often dead in this matchup? Is this something that you just chock up as a bad matchup? Does the Stoneforge package get there? Engineered Plague (which seems much better against Goblins than Merfolk)? Singleton Moat (which may not work)?
- With a terrible clock and mostly reactive countermagic, I imagine Show and Tell matchups are pretty bad, especially since it's so hard to float a 3 on top with Counterbalance. I imagine the plan here is to run Meddling Mage (for U/W), discard for (black splash variants), and REBs (for red splash variants). It still seems pretty miserable though, since your opponent will likely be bringing in REBs of their own. Is this another matchup with you just hope not to get paired against?